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Power Surge Change?
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jetplane_18✭✭✭My problem is all the hoops you have to go through to provide heals. Templar, nightblade, dragonknight, and warden all have true area HoTs (Necro's area HoT needs corpses). Why are the balance guys so adamant about producing yet another equivalent mediocre standardized skill for the sorc? This version is useless if not used by a healer and the actual healing from this skill is unreliable and so much weaker in small groups2 -
josh.lackey_ESO✭✭✭✭✭They need to put Majory Sorcery on the base ability and both morphs.
I don't even know why Sorcery and Brutality are different buffs. I don't even know why Spell Damage and Weapon Damage are separate values. It's not like hybrids are even viable. There should be one unified Damage stat.20 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jetplane_18 wrote: »My problem is all the hoops you have to go through to provide heals. Templar, nightblade, dragonknight, and warden all have true area HoTs (Necro's area HoT needs corpses). Why are the balance guys so adamant about producing yet another equivalent mediocre standardized skill for the sorc? This version is useless if not used by a healer and the actual healing from this skill is unreliable and so much weaker in small groups
Is it unreliable? Use it with the new 3-target Mutagen / Orb / Springs and it will most likely proc on CD. Looks quite powerful to me for a passive heal.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭Having a PASSIVE GROUP HEAL just from doing DPS was crazy.
Now it's a morph for sorc healers.
Fine with me
No one, not a single person, wanted a passive group heal from this skill. What magsorcs wanted was a more reliable self burst heal, like every other class. Instead we get a semi-useful skill over buffed and then completely gutted in turn.
Sorcs have the clanfear heal and the matriarch heal for burst heals.
And what it is now will be a benefit to an actual healer. Anyone running a full healer will have enough heals going out on various people to have constant crits and be proc'ing this ability on cooldown or very close to it. And they are passive heals as well, meaning you are doing other stuff while those heals are going out and you only re-apply the skill as duration ends.
Those are not reliable burst heals. Any heal that forces you to use two bar slots is not a reliable heal. Imagine having to slot vigor on both bars to make it stay up, or BOL not working if it is only slotted on one bar. Now imagine having to give up a skill on an already limited bar space just to double slot a heal.
Ime the double-slot requirement makes it a more reliable heal, considering it doesn’t matter which bar you get caught on, it’ll be there. I thought what made twilight a more unreliable heal was the fact that it could die and in that situation would require additional casts before activating.0 -
Kolzki✭✭✭✭✭Major sorcery really isn’t necessary to clear content. And if you’re trying to score push or optimize your build anyway, I can’t offhand think of a better potion to use than spell power pots.
I'm not talking about vet DLC trials here. Naturally we all use spell power pots there. There's plenty of content where major sorcery is a massive benfit where only the super rich would waste spell power pots.7 -
danara✭✭✭Having a PASSIVE GROUP HEAL just from doing DPS was crazy.
Now it's a morph for sorc healers.
Fine with me
Nah this is not fine : Proc only on critical heal? it should have been this from the beginning, it is for healer after all, and this allowed dd to heal as much as healers.
So what is not fine? Heal 6 targets fine, you just nerf this by 50%...Oh wait, now there is also a cd of 3 seconds, an other nerf of 66%.
Overall it is 66 % nerf : 100 - 100 * 0.5 * 0.66 = 66
So if i understood this *** patch, and this time i ll not bored myself with *, because this ZOS, this is the 3rd patch in a row, who bring nothing but nerfs, you just nerf a spell that wasnt implemented on the pts (if i remember well it wasnt proccing on ally)? REALLY ?
Edited by danara on August 5, 2019 10:13PM3 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Why ZOS?
Magicka Sorc will not rely on Power Surge for solo contents,
As power surge is destroyed, crit surge should grant Major Sorcery too.
Completely agreed, magsorcs will have to either use pets for heals (expensive, double bar), or critical surge, but lose on sorcery. Why in the world would they change a skill in a way that can only be capitalized for a magsorc running a healer build? They are disadvantaging a class' entire solo identity, for something that will benefit a niche class/role combo, and won't particularly make said combo a lot more popular either, given the general changes in healing. I am honestly taken aback by this change. I love power surge as it is now, it's a strong heal, yes, but it was conditional, and it only rewarded actively fighting playstyle. At the very least they should have added sorcery to critical surge. I'm tired of witnessing the complete deconstruction of the sorc class, patch after patch--what a joke you've made of sorcs, ZOS...9 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah, they over nerfed this.
It's enough that it requires a crit heal to proc and can only heal half a trial, the 3 second cool down is over kill. Sorc healers will need to stack crit to get any sort of reliable benefit from this.2 -
They have to put major sorcery on Critical Surge to otherwise rip Mag Sorc healing in any self content what are we gonna use now? Useless Matriach which is take 2 skill slots really ZOS is that hard to fix something what were you guys thinking you guys dont know NOTHING about this game
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MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL and people told me my suggestion made no sense, ZOS went the extra mile and didn't think about Mag Sorcs and Crit Surge, while making the healing morph underwhelming with a 3s CD. There is a week left ZOS.. Please.
July 30th.Marshall1289 wrote: »Image from @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on PTS:Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »the new tooltips from the pts-
My idea for the tooltip:
Here are the valid concerns I've seen:- Power Surge offers too much healing, passively available to Damage Dealers when intended for Healers.
- The heal should not stack with other Sorcs.
- Radius needs to be competitive if it's centered on the caster, but not ridiculous.
My answer:- Power Surge heals should only be activated via CRIT HEALING, remove the DAMAGE aspect and allowing Sorc Healers to use that morph optimally instead of Sorc DD. With that change in mind, both morphs should offer Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. Since both morphs will be used by Mag and Sta, make the heals dynamically scale based on highest stats.
- Like Echoing Vigor, Power Surge should have a radius where anyone within that radius is only effected by the Sorc with the higher duration left on the timer. For example, Sorc A has 15s left and Sorc B has 30s left, Sorc B is only able to apply heals to allies, but Sorc A can still heal themselves with the ability.
- I believe a happy radius for the Sorc would be 15m, this is slightly above the 12m of Ritual of Retribution, because it moves with the caster at all times I Healers are usually behind players.
Edited by MashmalloMan on August 5, 2019 10:45PM1 -
Tyrion87✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kirchhofftr wrote: »They have to put major sorcery on Critical Surge to otherwise rip Mag Sorc healing in any self content what are we gonna use now? Useless Matriach which is take 2 skill slots really ZOS is that hard to fix something what were you guys thinking you guys dont know NOTHING about this game
Yes, new power surge is the most awkward skill I have ever seen. Now designed to be a sorc healer toy, yet giving you major brutality... Two major buffs should be given to critical morph as a dps morph, no doubts about it.3 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭Major sorcery really isn’t necessary to clear content. And if you’re trying to score push or optimize your build anyway, I can’t offhand think of a better potion to use than spell power pots.
I'm not talking about vet DLC trials here. Naturally we all use spell power pots there. There's plenty of content where major sorcery is a massive benfit where only the super rich would waste spell power pots.
Sure, I agree. And if you don’t want to use pots, it’s just a matter of shoehorning it into your build like most dks, templars, Necros, and afaik nbs have to do.0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Major sorcery really isn’t necessary to clear content. And if you’re trying to score push or optimize your build anyway, I can’t offhand think of a better potion to use than spell power pots.
I'm not talking about vet DLC trials here. Naturally we all use spell power pots there. There's plenty of content where major sorcery is a massive benfit where only the super rich would waste spell power pots.
Sure, I agree. And if you don’t want to use pots, it’s just a matter of shoehorning it into your build like most dks, templars, Necros, and afaik nbs have to do.
Except that in those situations sorcs still need to keep surge for the self heals. Mag sorcs are already the most skill slot poor class in the game with pets taking 2 slots, and now the twilight will need to be the damage morph, making surge even more critical.
The thing that I don't understand is that it's sooooo easy to see the problem AND the solution. Like, just put major sorc on both skills. That's it. Job done, everyone happy, lets move on. Then the new power surge because a possible skill in the healer tool kit and everyone else just runs crit surge.9 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭Major sorcery really isn’t necessary to clear content. And if you’re trying to score push or optimize your build anyway, I can’t offhand think of a better potion to use than spell power pots.
I'm not talking about vet DLC trials here. Naturally we all use spell power pots there. There's plenty of content where major sorcery is a massive benfit where only the super rich would waste spell power pots.
Sure, I agree. And if you don’t want to use pots, it’s just a matter of shoehorning it into your build like most dks, templars, Necros, and afaik nbs have to do.
Except that in those situations sorcs still need to keep surge for the self heals. Mag sorcs are already the most skill slot poor class in the game with pets taking 2 slots, and now the twilight will need to be the damage morph, making surge even more critical.
The thing that I don't understand is that it's sooooo easy to see the problem AND the solution. Like, just put major sorc on both skills. That's it. Job done, everyone happy, lets move on. Then the new power surge because a possible skill in the healer tool kit and everyone else just runs crit surge.
If sorc needs self heals as powerful as surge then the other classes probably should too, thus losing a bar slot or more themselves. But I’m not arguing against putting maj sorcery on crit surge (or even the base skill too). Seems reasonable to me, especially given that maj brutality is left on every iteration. Just trying to point out that if it’s not added, it’s not the end of the world or really that bad at all.Edited by jypcy on August 5, 2019 11:05PM0 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Major sorcery really isn’t necessary to clear content. And if you’re trying to score push or optimize your build anyway, I can’t offhand think of a better potion to use than spell power pots.
I'm not talking about vet DLC trials here. Naturally we all use spell power pots there. There's plenty of content where major sorcery is a massive benfit where only the super rich would waste spell power pots.
Sure, I agree. And if you don’t want to use pots, it’s just a matter of shoehorning it into your build like most dks, templars, Necros, and afaik nbs have to do.
Except that in those situations sorcs still need to keep surge for the self heals. Mag sorcs are already the most skill slot poor class in the game with pets taking 2 slots, and now the twilight will need to be the damage morph, making surge even more critical.
The thing that I don't understand is that it's sooooo easy to see the problem AND the solution. Like, just put major sorc on both skills. That's it. Job done, everyone happy, lets move on. Then the new power surge because a possible skill in the healer tool kit and everyone else just runs crit surge.
If sorc needs self heals as powerful as surge then the other classes probably should too, thus losing a bar slot or more themselves. But I’m not arguing against putting maj sorcery on crit surge (or even the base skill too). Seems reasonable to me, especially given that maj brutality is left on every iteration. Just trying to point out that if it’s not added, it’s not the end of the world or really that bad at all.
Surge isn't even really that powerful to begin with. It is still a heal that requires a condition to proc. Compared to the burst healing abilities of every other class, abilities that don't require two bar slots, abilities that cannot be killed, and abilities that cannot be interrupted, sorc is flat out awful for self healing. Sorcs need surge to be powerful because that is it in their toolkit. Unlike every other class.8 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And when non pet sorcs are relying on healing that requires proc conditions or heals from the restro staff skill line that could end up on allies instead of them when needed, there is a problem with sorc healing.2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kirchhofftr wrote: »They have to put major sorcery on Critical Surge to otherwise rip Mag Sorc healing in any self content what are we gonna use now? Useless Matriach which is take 2 skill slots really ZOS is that hard to fix something what were you guys thinking you guys dont know NOTHING about this game
I insist, it was a great great change, on a templar, or a NB
Imagine using sweep and healing your group, or strife
If sorc had a skill that heal on hit, it would have been great, saddly that skills doesn't exist.
By the way, what's the point of extra healing on crits? Any decent healer doesn't need that and the extra heal would be redundant on the healer's job. The heal on crit dmg was Ok, but it should have been limited to 1 or 2 allies. I mean, Swallow soul received a very stupid nerf some years ago, going from 2 extra allies to one.
But Zos likes diceSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭No_Division wrote: »
No need that huge buff. Let it be as it is. Huge pay to win *** until every player quit playing mage sorc. First, they will buff mage sorc no one asked for, then nerf to oblivion again no one asked for excluding noob streamer garbages. Make changes that no one needs so that sells race change tokens. What a pathetic company. Even god cannot save this company from oblivion. Even the biggest fool of the world will agree this will fix performance issues or balance. Only it will earn more money for ESO coffers. 10 years from now there will be no Bethesda, no ZOs or elder scrolls. It seems to milk as much as can from this game. The only thing in this game is overland story content. The success of this game only attributed to those who created overland story content. Some of them are really fantastic. Apart from this, there is nothing in this game to take seriously. Pure garbage. So noob garbage streamers are making patch notes. Great way to promote game. You won't be here 10 years from now as a gaming company. Mark my words. Where are that Orc buffs by the way?
Most underpowered which can only do sprint, self-heal, tank and can do a *** ton of damage?
ESO is pay to win. ESO is pay to win. ESO is pay to win. ESO is pay to win. ESO is pay to win. ESO is pay to win.Edited by Priyasekarssk on August 5, 2019 11:47PM1 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭it is beyond embarrassing and basically an admission that they have no clue what they are doing
the only good things about this patch are some of the changes to the guild skill lines - everything else is just horrible, makes no sense, feels all pver the place without directionEdited by Nemesis7884 on August 5, 2019 11:32PM7 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sigh. are any healers actualy stacking crit though? like.. I don't tend to on my healers because i personaly don't need or want random overhealing, i need reliable, steady output. in theory having another class based tool in you kit as a sorc healer is a good idea. in practice the way they are implementing it - its honestly, not good at all. so its not good for a sorc healer, its a nerf with no replacement for a sorc dps, what is even the point here?dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
jypcy✭✭✭✭✭Major sorcery really isn’t necessary to clear content. And if you’re trying to score push or optimize your build anyway, I can’t offhand think of a better potion to use than spell power pots.
I'm not talking about vet DLC trials here. Naturally we all use spell power pots there. There's plenty of content where major sorcery is a massive benfit where only the super rich would waste spell power pots.
Sure, I agree. And if you don’t want to use pots, it’s just a matter of shoehorning it into your build like most dks, templars, Necros, and afaik nbs have to do.
Except that in those situations sorcs still need to keep surge for the self heals. Mag sorcs are already the most skill slot poor class in the game with pets taking 2 slots, and now the twilight will need to be the damage morph, making surge even more critical.
The thing that I don't understand is that it's sooooo easy to see the problem AND the solution. Like, just put major sorc on both skills. That's it. Job done, everyone happy, lets move on. Then the new power surge because a possible skill in the healer tool kit and everyone else just runs crit surge.
If sorc needs self heals as powerful as surge then the other classes probably should too, thus losing a bar slot or more themselves. But I’m not arguing against putting maj sorcery on crit surge (or even the base skill too). Seems reasonable to me, especially given that maj brutality is left on every iteration. Just trying to point out that if it’s not added, it’s not the end of the world or really that bad at all.
Surge isn't even really that powerful to begin with. It is still a heal that requires a condition to proc. Compared to the burst healing abilities of every other class, abilities that don't require two bar slots, abilities that cannot be killed, and abilities that cannot be interrupted, sorc is flat out awful for self healing. Sorcs need surge to be powerful because that is it in their toolkit. Unlike every other class.
Are you talking pvp? In pve I’d take crit surge on any other class, mag or stam, in a heartbeat even if it meant giving up shields/vigor/coagulating blood/resistant flesh/etc.3 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sigh. are any healers actualy stacking crit though? like.. I don't tend to on my healers because i personaly don't need or want random overhealing, i need reliable, steady output. in theory having another class based tool in you kit as a sorc healer is a good idea. in practice the way they are implementing it - its honestly, not good at all. so its not good for a sorc healer, its a nerf with no replacement for a sorc dps, what is even the point here?
You don't need to bend over backwards to get a lot of crit. You would have enough Crit for this to reliably proc off 4-6 group members easily and consistently, even if it was 1s as a CD it would be firing off continuously. 3s just sucks.
Orb ticks once/.5s , Grand Healing ticks once/1s. These 2 abilities are standard, average of 3 ticks/s, 6 people, that's 18 ticks a second.
Major Prophecy for +10% crit, Minor Prophecy for +6%, Light Armor for +10%, CP +9% Crit. Maybe your a sorc that's using a set like IA for Minor Vulnerability, +7.6% crit. That's a total of 42.6% with little investment. Pretty sure you start with 10%, that's already 52.6%
My question to ZOS as well, where is a Sorc Healer suppose to fit a Dark Magic ability to provide minor prophecy. They had an opportunity here and they missed it. The only thing I can think of, is they plan on redesigning that aspect in the next patch, but as it stands, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »sigh. are any healers actualy stacking crit though? like.. I don't tend to on my healers because i personaly don't need or want random overhealing, i need reliable, steady output. in theory having another class based tool in you kit as a sorc healer is a good idea. in practice the way they are implementing it - its honestly, not good at all. so its not good for a sorc healer, its a nerf with no replacement for a sorc dps, what is even the point here?
You don't need to bend over backwards to get a lot of crit. You would have enough Crit for this to reliably proc off 4-6 group members easily and consistently, even if it was 1s as a CD it would be firing off continuously. 3s just sucks.
Orb ticks once/.5s , Grand Healing ticks once/1s. These 2 abilities are standard, average of 3 ticks/s, 6 people, that's 18 ticks a second.
Major Prophecy for +10% crit, Minor Prophecy for +6%, Light Armor for +10%, CP +9% Crit. Maybe your a sorc that's using a set like IA for Minor Vulnerability, +7.6% crit. That's a total of 42.6% with little investment. Pretty sure you start with 10%, that's already 52.6%
My question to ZOS as well, where is a Sorc Healer suppose to fit a Dark Magic ability to provide minor prophecy. They had an opportunity here and they missed it. The only thing I can think of, is they plan on redesigning that aspect in the next patch, but as it stands, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I have a better question: why this healing mechanics for sorcs is in their DPS/self buff skill line?
Edited by Xvorg on August 6, 2019 12:30AMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique4 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Marshall1289 wrote: »sigh. are any healers actualy stacking crit though? like.. I don't tend to on my healers because i personaly don't need or want random overhealing, i need reliable, steady output. in theory having another class based tool in you kit as a sorc healer is a good idea. in practice the way they are implementing it - its honestly, not good at all. so its not good for a sorc healer, its a nerf with no replacement for a sorc dps, what is even the point here?
You don't need to bend over backwards to get a lot of crit. You would have enough Crit for this to reliably proc off 4-6 group members easily and consistently, even if it was 1s as a CD it would be firing off continuously. 3s just sucks.
Orb ticks once/.5s , Grand Healing ticks once/1s. These 2 abilities are standard, average of 3 ticks/s, 6 people, that's 18 ticks a second.
Major Prophecy for +10% crit, Minor Prophecy for +6%, Light Armor for +10%, CP +9% Crit. Maybe your a sorc that's using a set like IA for Minor Vulnerability, +7.6% crit. That's a total of 42.6% with little investment. Pretty sure you start with 10%, that's already 52.6%
My question to ZOS as well, where is a Sorc Healer suppose to fit a Dark Magic ability to provide minor prophecy. They had an opportunity here and they missed it. The only thing I can think of, is they plan on redesigning that aspect in the next patch, but as it stands, it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I have a better question: why this healing mechanics for sorcs is in their DPS/self buff skill line?
The original 4 classes don't REALLY have clearly defined skill lines like Warden and Necro anyway, Sorc possibly being the worst offender. I want a class overhaul, but not sure I want it to behave like the new classes. Warden's for example have many "When this Skill Tree ability is slotted gain ____". Where Sorc's passives just kind of work and mix with each other, minus a couple crappy ones.
If I were to say what's what, I would say Storm Calling is the closest to a dedicated DPS line, but then you have 2 dps pets, a DPS passive ability, and curse in Daedric Summoning for dps, which is kind of like a tanking/healing tree, but not really? Ward is in there too soooo idk. Let's not even get started on Dark Magic. It's all over the place and so many morphs are straight up hot garbage with no synergy.
That design is just a remnant of the original game design where DK = tank, Templar = healer, Sorc and NB = DD.Edited by MashmalloMan on August 6, 2019 12:51AM1 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Thanks the dev kill this skill .
As a Sorc dps require healing via this skill , it should proc by critical damage instead of healing , with new 3 sec cd is at the same time , huge nerf .
Like someone said above , sorc dps better use Structured Entropy which provides Major Sorcery and reliable healing every 2 seconds .
As a Sorc healer provide group healing , cd time should be reduced from 3 sec to 1 sec , all other healing skill in the game is better than this , you want Major Sorcery ? Just drink pot .
3 second a heal in hard content ? Seriously ? You may say it's sound like a supporting healing skill + Major Sorcery , no , just no , there are better option with restro staff + pot .
The current dev really let me down .3 -
CambionDaemon✭✭✭Seriously WTF have they done to my Power Surge!
3 second cooldown and I lose my Major Sorcery!
Am I reading that correctly?8
