Power Surge Change?

Saril_Durzam

Can we just take this healing out, change it to a simple selfheal (take Major Sorcery out, aswell: not needed) with reduced lower cost? This way we wouldnt hear the screams and it would be way more useful.

Group heals to healers. Thankyou.

Ajax_22

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

We don't know.
Unless stated the default heal cap is six.
^
Every heal in this game (that isn't a self heal) is a smart heal.
Yes.
No, because it currently doesn't function at all.

Aznarb

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

That why I need ppl on PTS to help me to figure out.
But most of forum warrior speak about PTS thing when they just have read patch and test nothing, bit boring.

@Emma_Overload : if you don't know what you're talking about, plz just don't post thx.

I can heal for 3k5 with it and 5k+ in crit each second.
And with 61% crit rate, I crit very very often.

Now it all depend on how it work, it could be OP or not with this base value.

universal_wrath

Aznarb wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

That why I need ppl on PTS to help me to figure out.
But most of forum warrior speak about PTS thing when they just have read patch and test nothing, bit boring.

@Emma_Overload : if you don't know what you're talking about, plz just don't post thx.

I can heal for 3k5 with it and 5k+ in crit each second.
And with 61% crit rate, I crit very very often.

Now it all depend on how it work, it could be OP or not with this base value.

Have to wait for next week for zos to fix power surge. Currently its not healing anyone but self like on live. Also, I think next week zos will add more discreption to the ability to mame it understandable how it work.

Neloth

Aznarb wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

That why I need ppl on PTS to help me to figure out.
But most of forum warrior speak about PTS thing when they just have read patch and test nothing, bit boring.

@Emma_Overload : if you don't know what you're talking about, plz just don't post thx.

I can heal for 3k5 with it and 5k+ in crit each second.
And with 61% crit rate, I crit very very often.

Now it all depend on how it work, it could be OP or not with this base value.

If now it really procs from your own crit self heals, it can become a viable PvP heal, if you pair it with something like rapid regeneration.

Right now on live it's not a viable heal (that's the reason why all sorts either shield stack or run healing pet), and we can all agree to Emma on this.

However, bar space will still be an issue, since you need frags/curse/force pulse/fury/streak/shield/surge/rapid regen/boundless, which leaves you with 1 flex spot if you don't run reach/rune cage for ranged CC.

katorga

Neloth wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

That why I need ppl on PTS to help me to figure out.
But most of forum warrior speak about PTS thing when they just have read patch and test nothing, bit boring.

@Emma_Overload : if you don't know what you're talking about, plz just don't post thx.

I can heal for 3k5 with it and 5k+ in crit each second.
And with 61% crit rate, I crit very very often.

Now it all depend on how it work, it could be OP or not with this base value.

If now it really procs from your own crit self heals, it can become a viable PvP heal, if you pair it with something like rapid regeneration.

Right now on live it's not a viable heal (that's the reason why all sorts either shield stack or run healing pet), and we can all agree to Emma on this.

However, bar space will still be an issue, since you need frags/curse/force pulse/fury/streak/shield/surge/rapid regen/boundless, which leaves you with 1 flex spot if you don't run reach/rune cage for ranged CC.

First mag sorc who gets to a no shield build wins. I think it might be possible this patch.

jaws343

katorga wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

That why I need ppl on PTS to help me to figure out.
But most of forum warrior speak about PTS thing when they just have read patch and test nothing, bit boring.

@Emma_Overload : if you don't know what you're talking about, plz just don't post thx.

I can heal for 3k5 with it and 5k+ in crit each second.
And with 61% crit rate, I crit very very often.

Now it all depend on how it work, it could be OP or not with this base value.

If now it really procs from your own crit self heals, it can become a viable PvP heal, if you pair it with something like rapid regeneration.

Right now on live it's not a viable heal (that's the reason why all sorts either shield stack or run healing pet), and we can all agree to Emma on this.

However, bar space will still be an issue, since you need frags/curse/force pulse/fury/streak/shield/surge/rapid regen/boundless, which leaves you with 1 flex spot if you don't run reach/rune cage for ranged CC.

First mag sorc who gets to a no shield build wins. I think it might be possible this patch.

That's certainly a difficult challenge, even with the healing changes. Might need to run Fortified Light to maintain the benefits of light armor but also get resists. Maybe Spinners and chudan. But even then, I feel like the dots are going to outpace any healing and the lack of a reliable instant heal that cannot be interrupted will make it difficult. Stam builds can get away with Hot only healing in PVP due to a larger resource pool for dodge rolling and blocking, mag isn't as lucky.

Now a group of mag sorcs with these proposed changes for group heal on surge would be perfectly capable of ditching shields altogether.

katorga

jaws343 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

That why I need ppl on PTS to help me to figure out.
But most of forum warrior speak about PTS thing when they just have read patch and test nothing, bit boring.

@Emma_Overload : if you don't know what you're talking about, plz just don't post thx.

I can heal for 3k5 with it and 5k+ in crit each second.
And with 61% crit rate, I crit very very often.

Now it all depend on how it work, it could be OP or not with this base value.

If now it really procs from your own crit self heals, it can become a viable PvP heal, if you pair it with something like rapid regeneration.

Right now on live it's not a viable heal (that's the reason why all sorts either shield stack or run healing pet), and we can all agree to Emma on this.

However, bar space will still be an issue, since you need frags/curse/force pulse/fury/streak/shield/surge/rapid regen/boundless, which leaves you with 1 flex spot if you don't run reach/rune cage for ranged CC.

First mag sorc who gets to a no shield build wins. I think it might be possible this patch.

Now a group of mag sorcs with these proposed changes for group heal on surge would be perfectly capable of ditching shields altogether.

Definitely have to throw out old assumptions and habits to make it work, but I've seen builds before that shouldn't work, but they do. Sorc actually has some good tools to complement a dot meta provided it can solve the defense question.

Emma_Overload

jaws343 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Neloth wrote: »

Aznarb wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

How big is the radius?
How many people are healed per tick? Everyone in the radius, a certain few, one?
Will it be a smart heal?
Can it be stacked by multiple Sorcs?
Will it even go live as it is?

Before I don't have answers to those questions I don't fire up the nerf wagon.

That why I need ppl on PTS to help me to figure out.
But most of forum warrior speak about PTS thing when they just have read patch and test nothing, bit boring.

@Emma_Overload : if you don't know what you're talking about, plz just don't post thx.

I can heal for 3k5 with it and 5k+ in crit each second.
And with 61% crit rate, I crit very very often.

Now it all depend on how it work, it could be OP or not with this base value.

If now it really procs from your own crit self heals, it can become a viable PvP heal, if you pair it with something like rapid regeneration.

Right now on live it's not a viable heal (that's the reason why all sorts either shield stack or run healing pet), and we can all agree to Emma on this.

However, bar space will still be an issue, since you need frags/curse/force pulse/fury/streak/shield/surge/rapid regen/boundless, which leaves you with 1 flex spot if you don't run reach/rune cage for ranged CC.

First mag sorc who gets to a no shield build wins. I think it might be possible this patch.

That's certainly a difficult challenge, even with the healing changes. Might need to run Fortified Light to maintain the benefits of light armor but also get resists. Maybe Spinners and chudan. But even then, I feel like the dots are going to outpace any healing and the lack of a reliable instant heal that cannot be interrupted will make it difficult. Stam builds can get away with Hot only healing in PVP due to a larger resource pool for dodge rolling and blocking, mag isn't as lucky.

Now a group of mag sorcs with these proposed changes for group heal on surge would be perfectly capable of ditching shields altogether.

My prediction is that Mag Sorcs are going to do a great job of staying alive... right up until we run out of magicka and drop dead. All these new healing tools look great on paper, but I am not convinced that we have a viable build that will allow us to use them and deal damage, too.

Vapirko

ccmedaddy wrote: »

lmao this is the last week of PTS and most of the patch notes is basically them saying "we'll figure this out later".

ZOS wyd...

Is this the last or is there one more?

Ajax_22

Vapirko wrote: »

ccmedaddy wrote: »

lmao this is the last week of PTS and most of the patch notes is basically them saying "we'll figure this out later".

ZOS wyd...

Is this the last or is there one more?

Next Monday is the last PTS change.
Monday after that is live.

Vahrokh

As a magsorc I have this feeling, that once this goes live, even (PvP) walls will cry.

So ZOS will do what they are best at: knee jerk reactions. At next minor patch they'll do something completely nonsensical, erasing all what's left of the (PvE) class in the process.

iCaliban

https://taseartreehouse.blogspot.com/2019/07/change-on-surge-for-sorcerers-is-bad.html?m=1

For those interested in her thoughts.

Hotdog_23

iCaliban wrote: »

https://taseartreehouse.blogspot.com/2019/07/change-on-surge-for-sorcerers-is-bad.html?m=1

For those interested in her thoughts.

Interesting take on the changes.

Saril_Durzam

It´s a good read, wish devs would read it aswell...

SodanTok

It is probably going to be strong no doubt, but I feel the hysteria in this thread and comparing it to the magblade meta is missing some critical part. In PVE you have to slot a skill not meant for DPS and use it to be able to heal people. The duration is probably too long and could be reduced to 24s or smth but the gist of it remains. Need to slot, need to activate. It is nowhere near passive healing of doing whatever anyone else is doing but also heal.

In current version assuming equal range, it saves 2GCDs over using echoing vigor every 10s, probably heals for less than that and needs critical strikes while also remaining within ddistance of people you want to heal instead of just putting the heal on them.

iCaliban

I love how people are complaining about an ability that allows sorc to finally help their team in pvp without slotting pets. This wont make sorcs any stronger individually.

And pve complaints about this? Please dont pretend to be serious. Everything outside of vet HM trials is faceroll easy.

Zalathorm

Derra wrote: »

Zalathorm wrote: »

Passive group healing on a DPSing character is ridiculous.

If they want sorcs to do better healing, make a morph that actually benefits healers

Doing that would remove the last class heal magsorc dps have realistic access to after pet nerf - if they didn’t with power surge.

No, you misunderstood. I'm not talking about passive SELF healing. That's fine, whatever.

I'm talking about a passive GROUP heal on a dps ability.

Derra

Zalathorm wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zalathorm wrote: »

Passive group healing on a DPSing character is ridiculous.

If they want sorcs to do better healing, make a morph that actually benefits healers

Doing that would remove the last class heal magsorc dps have realistic access to after pet nerf - if they didn’t with power surge.

No, you misunderstood. I'm not talking about passive SELF healing. That's fine, whatever.

I'm talking about a passive GROUP heal on a dps ability.

Yeah - I’m just concerned about doing that with power surge. Because that’s the last sorc class heal pvp sorc has worth slotting.

jaws343

SodanTok wrote: »

It is probably going to be strong no doubt, but I feel the hysteria in this thread and comparing it to the magblade meta is missing some critical part. In PVE you have to slot a skill not meant for DPS and use it to be able to heal people. The duration is probably too long and could be reduced to 24s or smth but the gist of it remains. Need to slot, need to activate. It is nowhere near passive healing of doing whatever anyone else is doing but also heal.

In current version assuming equal range, it saves 2GCDs over using echoing vigor every 10s, probably heals for less than that and needs critical strikes while also remaining within ddistance of people you want to heal instead of just putting the heal on them.

For mag, it is no different than backbarring a shield. Just remove the shield and have two mag sorcs running this. It'll be guaranteed passive healing every single second to group members. Since most trials have bosses where DPS stack, everyone is already on top of one another, and crits in PVE are constant. This will proc nonstop. And that is on Mag in PVE. You will be sitting at 3K heals per second for everyone this can hit, per sorc. You could pretty much remove healers from your group and run a 3 or 4 sorcs and passively heal the entire group through most content. Or just run an all sorc group and get even more healing potential than a full magblade group could have every dreamed of.

As far as activating goes, it has an extremely long timer.

Saril_Durzam

Zalathorm wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Zalathorm wrote: »

Passive group healing on a DPSing character is ridiculous.

If they want sorcs to do better healing, make a morph that actually benefits healers

Doing that would remove the last class heal magsorc dps have realistic access to after pet nerf - if they didn’t with power surge.

No, you misunderstood. I'm not talking about passive SELF healing. That's fine, whatever.

I'm talking about a passive GROUP heal on a dps ability.

This is not a dps ability.it doesnt deal damage, not giving any buffs for magicka as major sorcery is already covered on a damage skill.

Sorcs will slot this if they want to heal. Tbh not a good heal for Dds, still missing one. It will have group utility though.

SodanTok

jaws343 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

It is probably going to be strong no doubt, but I feel the hysteria in this thread and comparing it to the magblade meta is missing some critical part. In PVE you have to slot a skill not meant for DPS and use it to be able to heal people. The duration is probably too long and could be reduced to 24s or smth but the gist of it remains. Need to slot, need to activate. It is nowhere near passive healing of doing whatever anyone else is doing but also heal.

In current version assuming equal range, it saves 2GCDs over using echoing vigor every 10s, probably heals for less than that and needs critical strikes while also remaining within ddistance of people you want to heal instead of just putting the heal on them.

For mag, it is no different than backbarring a shield. Just remove the shield and have two mag sorcs running this. It'll be guaranteed passive healing every single second to group members. Since most trials have bosses where DPS stack, everyone is already on top of one another, and crits in PVE are constant. This will proc nonstop. And that is on Mag in PVE. You will be sitting at 3K heals per second for everyone this can hit, per sorc. You could pretty much remove healers from your group and run a 3 or 4 sorcs and passively heal the entire group through most content. Or just run an all sorc group and get even more healing potential than a full magblade group could have every dreamed of.

As far as activating goes, it has an extremely long timer.

Its not passive if you have to slot it, cast it, keep proccing it and stand near (unless they give it some huge radius) teammates to heal. Literally any long duration HoT is doing the same work. Have you seen ritual of retribution, mortal coil, mender, lotus flower, vigor, new circle of protection, ...

Again, not arguing how strong it is. Just saying, these talking points are flat out stupid.

jaws343

Power surge is again in a useless state if it only procs of crit heals. Especially since it is the only morph that provides a buff to magicka players.

Insco851

jaws343 wrote: »

Power surge is again in a useless state if it only procs of crit heals. Especially since it is the only morph that provides a buff to magicka players.

Lol yea I read that change and just luled trying to figure out how optimal that rando heal is gonna be...

FrancisCrawford

jaws343 wrote: »

Power surge is again in a useless state if it only procs of crit heals. Especially since it is the only morph that provides a buff to magicka players.

The new version is pretty limited in use case for a group healer. And its usefulness for solo players or damage dealers, always a bit questionable, has been thoroughly destroyed.

Celestro

Coupled with 3 second cooldown? GG

Dalsinthus

jaws343 wrote: »

Power surge is again in a useless state if it only procs of crit heals. Especially since it is the only morph that provides a buff to magicka players.

Yup. So for heals, mag sorcs now have the heavily nerfed twilight or dark exchange or run a resto staff. And surge can augment that, but it doesn't heal without another heal to jump off of? Those are some pretty slim options.

kaizen914

Yeah this is just a useless skill now. 3s is way too long in between ticks for this to be useful and proccing off of only heals is a problem on its own.

Who plays sorc healers? If you do, is this even a good change? Seems like unreliable healing.

Is anyone considering becoming a sorc healer now that this change has been made?

jaws343

Dalsinthus wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Power surge is again in a useless state if it only procs of crit heals. Especially since it is the only morph that provides a buff to magicka players.

Yup. So for heals, mag sorcs now have the heavily nerfed twilight or dark exchange or run a resto staff. And surge can augment that, but it doesn't heal without another heal to jump off of? Those are some pretty slim options.

pretty much forces solo PVE magsorcs to run a morph for stamina in order to get a viable heal.

MashmalloMan

jaws343 wrote: »

Power surge is again in a useless state if it only procs of crit heals. Especially since it is the only morph that provides a buff to magicka players.

It's not useless as it's now meant as an option for a Sorc Healer toolkit as made clear 2 patches ago. Sorry your DD will have a hard time using it, but that's the point.

The real issues I see:

1. Why does it have a CD of 3s and not 2s like most healer hots?
2. Why is it so hard to just include the radius or how the ability works in the notes?
3. Why wasn't Crit Surge changed to be more accessible for Mag Builds looking to use the stronger "Self Heal" morph if Power Surge is now the healer morph.