AleTaras wrote: »

yeah exactly, sounds like a nerph for pvp. Im playing since day 1 and everytime something was wrong in pvp, they changed even for pve. But now is ridicolous

Yeah small scalers are celebrating Right now, but since I PvE and PvP I sure am not. Various heal checks will be made much more difficult and the orb Change is just next Level of stupidity.

They are litterally killing a versatile, fun and challeging role.

Healers will be forced to JUST HEAL, will be boring, stressfull and monotonous.

The tanks will be forced to stop using buffing sets like alkosh and hircine and they will have to use defensive set ups.

Probably, like other mmo's, there will be a new role "buffer/debuffer" that will not really heal or deal Damage, he will just stand there "cheerleading" the Others.


Stop this madness and stop changing classes/skills only because of PvP.

We are in 2019, is that impossible to diversify the pvp skills from pve skills?

I agree, those changes massively impact our capabilities while also hurting the general feel of the role. I think the true extent of this shows if we take a look at a PvE healer rotation. I have written down a random rotation for a warden with Jorvulds below and I think it shows the problem very well.

1. Combat Prayer
2. Blockade
3. Elemental Drain
4. Altar
5. Frostcloak
6. Netch
7. Enchanted Growth
8. ???
9. Blockade
10. ???
11. ???
12. Combat Prayer
13. ???
14. ???
15. ???
16. ???
17. Blockade
18. ???
19. ???
20. ???
21. ???
22. ???
23. Combat Prayer
24. ???
25. Blockade
26. Elemental Drain
27. ???
28. ???
29. ???
30. ???

This is what 30 skills out of a rotation keeping up a good amount of buffs and debuffs looks like. Every ??? would be a spot in the rotation for a "spamable" so this would either be orbs or springs and in some cases a early recast of another skill. I have purposefully chosen a rotation with a very high amount of ???, because it highlights that optimizing for more free GCDs currently is a factor in healing setups, leading to more options for endgame healers. With the changes to orbs and springs we get two problems now, The first, more obvious one, is that we don't really have anything to fill those global cooldowns with. We basically completely lose a core skill. The second issue is a reduction of complexity. Currently a huge deciding factor on how good a healer is, is how those ??? are used, with bad healers just spaming springs and good ones knowing when they have to use springs and prioritizing orbs otherwise. Using orbs correctly and having the situational awareness to decide between orbs and springs are two very big factors in PvE healing that would get lost with those changes, severely lowering the skill ceiling for healers by reducing the potential rotation optimization and reducing the need for reactive play. Healer is in my opinion already capped of more in power then other roles and this hurts the role even more. We had the discussion for many patches that healers feel unimportant in endgame PvE and after quite a few positive changes we get massive nerfs now? None of this makes any sense.

Namarkas wrote: »

I mean I get the general direction with those changes, steamlining all ground AoE over time abilites so they behave the same.

But... this is BORING. We don't want this.

Divoria wrote: »

I hope the devs will have enough sense to listen to players (such as Storm and Anima) who know what they're talking about, because they spend the majority of their time ingame, healing.

In most cases when ZOS proposes changes, be it good changes, buffs, nerfs or pointless changes, we adjust and move on. This is not the case, because there is no SOUND reasoning behind this. None. I play with good healers in my guild and they DO NOT just spam springs and/or orbs. They work hard to buff their DDs, give them sustain, debuff the bosses and keep everyone alive, because this is what is needed if you want your group to clear hard content.

There is so much work to be done as a healer, especially in more challenging content such as vHOF last boss HM, vAS HM, vCR +1/2/3 etc. The amount of incoming damage and debuffs players are getting in certain content cannot be healed reactively. Maybe top players in this game will learn to live these changes, and optimize their group in such a way that they can still clear HM DLC trials, but you're absolutely annulling any chance for progression groups to clear the hardest content. And you haven't even said why. This is not the way to go, ZOS. You're gonna lose people. Don't stand in stupid.

Well said. I am not well known in forums or in game, but I have templar, warden, and necro healers and therefore spend the majority of my time healing. My main is the templar healer.

There has been a lot of talk about making healers more relevant. This will do the opposite, at least in PvE. For most content, people will run without healers and rely on self heals. Many groups already are; this will be the nail in the coffin. (I am not usually this cynical but perhaps THIS is the plan to fix dungeon finder... make it irrelevant so no one uses it?) For the hardest content... I am not sure but I suspect it will just make that content out of reach for almost everyone.

As a healer I am extremely disappointed with everything I see here:

1. Healing Springs:Converted this ability into a true AoE HoT, rather than a hybrid spammable hybrid HoT. Increased the duration from 3 seconds to 8 seconds, but you may only have 1 active at a time.
   
   Boring! I can't position heals in multiple areas anymore? This is ridiculous.
   
   
2. Regeneration: Increased the healing per tick by approximately 98%, but reduced duration to 10 seconds. It now only hits 1 ally per cast.
   
   1 ally per cast? Really?? Ok, let's take an ability that was only useful in dungeons anyway, make it less useful, and more likely to NOT hit the other poor folks that are standing somewhere else from where my healing springs happens to be.
   
   
3. Necrotic Orb: You can only have 1 orb active at a time. Decreased the speed to 2 meters per second from 3 meters per second to help it deal damage or heal targets more reliably as the orb passes them.
   
   Has been discussed at length here already and I agree with 100% with everything that was said.
   
   
4. Blood Altar: This ability and its morphs no longer have a cast time, and now cost Health rather than Magicka
   
   I probably won't be standing in my own healing springs, and regeneration probably won't hit me, so sure, let's reduce my health when I put down a Blood Altar. Why not?

Let's take stock here. If people aren't all stacked together, each of my heals can only hit ONE PERSON (ok, area, maybe, in some cases) AT A TIME. But Blessing of Protection (Combat Prayer) was buffed, and now Circle of Protection (gee, seems a lot like Rune Focus now, doesn't it?) can be morphed to heal people standing in my circle.

I've been pretty vocal about the repeated Breath of Life changes.

But putting this all together it really seems like healers are being put in an extremely boring role where we are supposed to STAND AND FACE THE PEOPLE WE ARE HEALING to be effective. Otherwise, here's a few other heals where you might be able to help your group out, but generally not. This all seems like PvP changes to me. They make absolutely zero sense in a PvE environment.

Healing is not going to be fun anymore. I truly... I have no suggestions for ZOS except to say... please, no.

there are certain hard mode fights that I am concerned will no longer be possible to heal without stackable hot's.

ZOS: "We want healers to feel important in end game content"

Also ZOS: "LeTs NeRf AlL oF tHe HeAlIng"

As a vet trial PvE raid lead, DD, and Healer, these changes are garbage.

Imagine a healing intensive situation where you actually need the HoT from your orb and a DD or tank even ACCIDENTALLY syngergizes it and suddenly the healing is gone.

The only way I can see this working AT ALL is to add changes to the orb synergy and partly or completely unnerf the Grand Healing ticks. The synergy should not remove the orb, and two players should be able to syngergize the same orb.
With a reliable and predictable orb duration and coverage, you MIGHT be able to outheal something like Assembly General execute or the CONTINUOUS damage in vCR +3 using only two healers.

With a reliable and reasonably powerful Grand Healing and Healing Orb, those HOTS could be strong enough to allow a class ground HOT and more direct spot healing with Combat Prayer/whatever to outheal some of the massive heal checks in vet trials.

People seems to think that the impact will mean we will have to go from spamming one skill to spamming another, without looking at the bigger picture, this post pretty much highlights the core issue, Orbs allowed for smart play. Without them we will have to result to clap healing through a lot of content. Something noone wants to do. I am certanly not playing eso if this change goes live.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @Gilliamtherogue The healing changes are at best, I hope, a distraction on the patch notes you planned to retract anyway so you guys can sneak in some other suspect changes like in Murkmire.

While I understand that it's for the Week 1 PTS, the fact that the proposed changes that dumbs/strips down an entire role (not a class, not a build) somehow made it onto the patch notes indicates at least one of you thought it was a good idea for whatever reason which is very worrying.

ClawOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

I posted this in the other thread about the resto skill line, but I'll post it here too cause this thread looks like its getting more attention.

I've seen a lot of discussion about why this change is bad, and the people saying it give good examples as to why it's bad, but for the people defending the changes, all they say is that the changes are good. Why are they good? Cause you can't spam springs during high damage phases? What will be the alternative to this? Give me an alternative to out heal the damage during the poison phase in vSo, or during the meteor phase on the first boss of vMoL. I don't know what healers these people run with, but I know I'm doing a lot more than spamming springs, as for orbs I'm throwing about three out after a combat prayer. I only spam springs when the mechanics mentioned earlier are happening because I have no other skill that's going to heal up everyone around me consistently. What can I do now? Pop a spring, lay down extended ritual and circle of protection and hope for the best? I can't wait to see how these changes look on pts when people attempt ver hardmodes trials.

I am pretty sure the people defending these changes are people that are clueless when it comes to end game pve content, and are most likely BOL spammers 🤷‍♀️

I agree this is bad.

That being stated, since the Energy Orbs only has a 8m radius and an ally can activate the Healing Combustion synergy, causing the orb to explode and heal to 795 Health to all friendly targets and restore 3960 Magicka or Stamina to the ally, whichever maximum to higher.

What about increasing the radius 28m, and make it so using the synergy effects everyone.

I'm all for this tbh Bubble spamming was far to common it has a 20 sec cd to trigger the synergy theres also a few sets that give back resources to allies. We also still have templar spears so it's really not the end of the world. The game as a whole needed a massive tone down but I was personally expecting it to be in the form of CP squishing as no player likes seeing class/skill line ability nerfs over just straight passive nerfs like CP. From all of this though I expect an additional healer to be added over a dps for hm trial content which honestly won't hurt to much.

Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »

I'm all for this tbh Bubble spamming was far to common it has a 20 sec cd to trigger the synergy theres also a few sets that give back resources to allies. We also still have templar spears so it's really not the end of the world. The game as a whole needed a massive tone down but I was personally expecting it to be in the form of CP squishing as no player likes seeing class/skill line ability nerfs over just straight passive nerfs like CP. From all of this though I expect an additional healer to be added over a dps for hm trial content which honestly won't hurt to much.

Well if you're only providing one person with the synergy then sure, 20s down time is fine, but in a trial with 8 hungry dps between you and the tank as a non-templar healer you have no chance getting resources to them where-as before you could cast enough orbs to at least sneak one by.

CP5 wrote: »

Well if you're only providing one person with the synergy then sure, 20s down time is fine, but in a trial with 8 hungry dps between you and the tank as a non-templar healer you have no chance getting resources to them where-as before you could cast enough orbs to at least sneak one by.

THIS is the biggest concern. The tank needs to get an orb, and there is no way the DPS are letting that orb crawl by. Orb (since it is no longer Orbs, that implies more than one at once) needs to have unlimited 20s-cool-down synergy uses for its duration. It can crawl by and everyone can use it and then it can crawl to the tank and they can use it too. Can't spam it and won't need to.

Lets get real. The healing orbs nerf is too stupid of an idea to implement.