It is slower and heals more often. To fully realize the repercussions, testing is required.
stileanima wrote: »...We use Energy Orbs primarily for the sustain and synergies they provide to our DDs and Tanks, and additionally for their healing done...
As magicka necromancer I already have troubles with sustain in trials and only exceptionally good healers can somehow mitigate it. If that change goes live, I doubt even they will be able to help.
BlissfulDelusions wrote: »Furthermore, but as an aside, Grand Healing in its current form is a necessary HoT for many veteran trial scenarios, including but not limited to; the vAA Mage execute phase, the Assembly General execute phase, the Lokkestiiz post-beam phase and the Zhaj'hassa shield phase. If this change is pushed for, healing will become considerably harder not just for the top dog meta chasers, but for the more casual players, too. Progression groups that enjoy the challenge of completing vet trials on their normal settings will be pushed out of the picture entirely, and this will ultimately lead to a bigger divide between the top players and and lower ranks of the endgame PvE community.
As magicka necromancer I already have troubles with sustain in trials and only exceptionally good healers can somehow mitigate it. If that change goes live, I doubt even they will be able to help.
you can use soul trap and degeneration for more magicka-return...don't just pick one change, look at them as a whole package.
As magicka necromancer I already have troubles with sustain in trials and only exceptionally good healers can somehow mitigate it. If that change goes live, I doubt even they will be able to help.
you can use soul trap and degeneration for more magicka-return...don't just pick one change, look at them as a whole package.
Joy, a third skill that returns magicka on light attacks for my magblade. I don’t think I’ll be getting much magicka out of soul trap on vet trial bosses though.
stileanima wrote: »In this thread, I would like to discuss this proposed change to Necrotic Orb from an end-game healer's perspective, and I invite other healers (and DDs and Tanks) from all playstyles to do the same. I'll be extremely forward-- if you can't already tell from the title, I think this is an absolutely horrible change, and I would like to offer my reasoning as to why. At the same time, I'd also like to hear others' feedback about this, be they for or against the change. Or to put it another way, if there is anyone out there who thinks that this would be a good, productive change to healing in ESO, please try to convince me.
Now, for me, this also directly relates to the Grand Healing change, so I will be discussing both here and will try my best to give true examples of how the two skills coexist together other on live, and how I think they might affect healing in the future, should the changes actually go live.
Firstly: There has been no Dev comment in the patch notes about why this change has been proposed. Does ZoS think that Energy Orbs heal too much? I'm not sure they do since "1 orb at a time" applies even to the damage morph, which hardly any healer uses in end-game PvE. That being the case, does ZoS think that they make sustain in trials too easy? I, and I'm sure many other healers, would like to know the answer to this/the reasoning behind it.
I would like to share with you the mindset of most, if not all, end-game healers regarding Energy Orbs and Grand Healing:
We use Energy Orbs primarily for the sustain and synergies they provide to our DDs and Tanks, and additionally for their healing done. We do not take the damage morph of Orbs because we use the healing morph as our primary HoT during less intensive moments/moments where we can be sure they will be enough to keep our team alive, and we use Grand Healing in addition to Energy Orbs as layered HoTs during moments where there is more intensive damage output. There are some exceptions to this, but generally what I have written here is the case for a large majority of encounters. Perhaps this isn't how all healers view their Orbs/Grand Healing, but in my opinion, using them in such a way is part of what sets skillful healers apart from the rest, and is a large part of high-end, REWARDING gameplay-- to be able to recognize the moments in every encounter where you will need to make healing output a greater priority, and understanding how to most effectively do this in a way that will also be most beneficial for the DDs and Tanks you are supporting.
What we really love about our Energy Orbs is that they accomplish both healing and offering sustain at the same time, which allows us more time to buff our DDs and debuff our enemies. For example, in Sunspire during the Lokkestiiz boss fight, during the add phases in particular: this part of the fight involves a LOT of movement, so what I like to do, and also find extremely effective in terms of both healing and group support, is to throw Orbs toward the direction that my DDs will be running to when killing the Storm Atronachs, while also paving the way there with Illustrious Healing. Both of these skills working together ensures that my group gets the best of both worlds-- healing AND sustain during a movement-heavy fight. Having all these layered HoTs also means I have lots of time to buff and debuff, so long as I play intelligently. I know that my several casts of Illustrious will cover my DDs that are moving from point A to point B, so now I have time to apply Minor Vulnerability on the Atro we are focusing before my HoTs fall off. I know that my several casts of Orbs will float through the group and heal everyone enough so that I can focus on throwing synergies for my DDs to use to proc their Lokkestiiz set, apply Alkosh, etc.
How this proposed change will affect this part of the Lokkestiiz boss fight: I can only have 1 Illustrious healing down at a time-- Where do I place it? First I put it around the Storm Atronach that my DDs are currently killing. I see that it's about to die, so perhaps I should now place it at the next Storm Atronach that my group will be running to? What if some of my DDs straggle behind the rest-- What if one of them accidentally misses blocking a meteor and takes heavy damage from it plus the Storm Bound DoT at the same time? What if another DD does not follow the group because he wanted to dodge a different way through the Glacial Fist AoE to not get killed by it? Well, I've already placed my Illustrious on the next Storm Atro so, unfortunately, the DDs that fell behind/went another way have no HoTs on them. I could throw an Orb in the direction of the DD that took the meteor hit, but someone who needed it for sustain/the Major Slayer buff just popped it, so he loses out on that HoT now too. Then what about my DD who dodged the other way to avoid Glacial Fist-- what if he's got Storm Bound on him too, or perhaps some other kind of AoE damage is around him? I could put my Illustrious on him, but then my DDs killing the Storm Atro have no more HoTs on them. I could throw him an Orb, but what if it's immediately popped?
My thoughts on this are extremely jumbled at the moment, so I hope my fellow healers will be able to help me out here/people will understand the point I'm trying to make: We use Orbs and Grand Healing together for all our healing needs, not just one or the other exclusively.
We do not consider Grand Healing a "hybrid spammable hybrid HoT". We consider it a strong HoT that, if used intelligently and at the right moments, will provide consistent healing over time when and where we need it, perhaps in multiple places at once which is essential during movement-heavy fights. We do not use it as a spammable at all because it does nothing more than heal, and we as end-game healers are not JUST healers-- we are buffers, debuffers, and synergy providers. We are the ultimate supporters of our team, and we do this by using a multitude of skills in our kits, not just heal spamming.
Now, I really don't mind the change to Grand Healing and only being able to have one down at a time. What I do not like alongside this change is the "1 orb at a time" change, particularly for the reasons I mentioned above (in movement heavy fights, what HoTs are we supposed to provide our group then as we move from one location to the next, perhaps not all together?), though also because they play such a huge role when it comes to helping our DDs sustain.
How end-game healers currently use Orbs when it comes to offering sustain: We throw lots of them out at once because we know our DDs might not be in a position to take them right away, might be on Orb cooldown, might be saving the proc to perfectly time their Major Slayer, etc.
How the proposed Orb change will impact sustain: We can only have one Orb active at a time, which means we should no longer cast multiple Orbs in a row because this may not give our DDs enough time to synergize them. This means we will be throwing way fewer Orbs in total, and DDs will be receiving way less than before because only one may exist at a time. We also can no longer rely on multiple Orbs to provide the HoTs we need, which means we will have to spend more time casting pure-healing skills, and so will have even less time to throw Orbs.
In short, I think these changes will turn end-game healers more into "pure" heal spammers, and will greatly impact the other ways in which we can support our team. Regarding the proposed Grand Healing change in particular-- I think it would be fine on its own, but NOT if the "1 orb at a time" change makes it live alongside it. I also think that "1 orb at a time" will severely, negatively impact sustain in trials because we will not be able to provide our DDs with all that they need.
Again, my thoughts here are a bit jumbled, and I invite everyone, especially other end-game healers, to provide their own thoughts as well. Thanks for reading.
Well said, I mean took all the words out of my mouth, what I will add is just situations that will be close to imposible, and honestly can't even imagine how less exp Healers will be dealing with this.
Lets start with vAS, I can't imagine myself being anyhow able to envelop all 8 DD's with 1 healing spring and 1 orb, it is just imposible, someone will come at this with an argument: but Storm they buff the *** out of Rapid regen / Mutagen. Well yes they do, but unlike Healing Springs and Orbs we can't control on what target muatgen goes.
then we have vCR, the amount of layered healing that we have to do to be able to outheal a person that is carrying the Ice and has sphere dots on him will turn into a certain death every single time that a person will find themselfs into that situation, the worse part is with the Healing debuff in execute phase, 1 Spring and 1 Orb from each healer will never ever be enough to get people up from the healing debuff.
Then we are going into older trials, vAA, the Stone Attro starts stomping we will be death, Call lightning = death, the mage on HM execute = death
vSO, all the poison, the call lightnings, for this one I am even scared to think about the situation
vHRC, first boss with all the winds = death, Warrior meteor shower = death
vMoL last boss , vHoF first boss, last boss, vBRP with the high incoming damage.
A lot of situations may seems so easy because of the healing that we are layering and with the change on Grand Healing and Orbs won't be posible at all anymore, a few groups will find a way, we always do ( the ones that don't quit playing ) and the rest of the Players that don't have the experience needed will end up never clearing Trials, it is a long step from Making Healers more effective into making them utter garbage.
stileanima wrote: »In this thread, I would like to discuss this proposed change to Necrotic Orb from an end-game healer's perspective, and I invite other healers (and DDs and Tanks) from all playstyles to do the same. I'll be extremely forward-- if you can't already tell from the title, I think this is an absolutely horrible change, and I would like to offer my reasoning as to why. At the same time, I'd also like to hear others' feedback about this, be they for or against the change. Or to put it another way, if there is anyone out there who thinks that this would be a good, productive change to healing in ESO, please try to convince me.
Now, for me, this also directly relates to the Grand Healing change, so I will be discussing both here and will try my best to give true examples of how the two skills coexist together other on live, and how I think they might affect healing in the future, should the changes actually go live.
Firstly: There has been no Dev comment in the patch notes about why this change has been proposed. Does ZoS think that Energy Orbs heal too much? I'm not sure they do since "1 orb at a time" applies even to the damage morph, which hardly any healer uses in end-game PvE. That being the case, does ZoS think that they make sustain in trials too easy? I, and I'm sure many other healers, would like to know the answer to this/the reasoning behind it.
I would like to share with you the mindset of most, if not all, end-game healers regarding Energy Orbs and Grand Healing:
We use Energy Orbs primarily for the sustain and synergies they provide to our DDs and Tanks, and additionally for their healing done. We do not take the damage morph of Orbs because we use the healing morph as our primary HoT during less intensive moments/moments where we can be sure they will be enough to keep our team alive, and we use Grand Healing in addition to Energy Orbs as layered HoTs during moments where there is more intensive damage output. There are some exceptions to this, but generally what I have written here is the case for a large majority of encounters. Perhaps this isn't how all healers view their Orbs/Grand Healing, but in my opinion, using them in such a way is part of what sets skillful healers apart from the rest, and is a large part of high-end, REWARDING gameplay-- to be able to recognize the moments in every encounter where you will need to make healing output a greater priority, and understanding how to most effectively do this in a way that will also be most beneficial for the DDs and Tanks you are supporting.
What we really love about our Energy Orbs is that they accomplish both healing and offering sustain at the same time, which allows us more time to buff our DDs and debuff our enemies. For example, in Sunspire during the Lokkestiiz boss fight, during the add phases in particular: this part of the fight involves a LOT of movement, so what I like to do, and also find extremely effective in terms of both healing and group support, is to throw Orbs toward the direction that my DDs will be running to when killing the Storm Atronachs, while also paving the way there with Illustrious Healing. Both of these skills working together ensures that my group gets the best of both worlds-- healing AND sustain during a movement-heavy fight. Having all these layered HoTs also means I have lots of time to buff and debuff, so long as I play intelligently. I know that my several casts of Illustrious will cover my DDs that are moving from point A to point B, so now I have time to apply Minor Vulnerability on the Atro we are focusing before my HoTs fall off. I know that my several casts of Orbs will float through the group and heal everyone enough so that I can focus on throwing synergies for my DDs to use to proc their Lokkestiiz set, apply Alkosh, etc.
How this proposed change will affect this part of the Lokkestiiz boss fight: I can only have 1 Illustrious healing down at a time-- Where do I place it? First I put it around the Storm Atronach that my DDs are currently killing. I see that it's about to die, so perhaps I should now place it at the next Storm Atronach that my group will be running to? What if some of my DDs straggle behind the rest-- What if one of them accidentally misses blocking a meteor and takes heavy damage from it plus the Storm Bound DoT at the same time? What if another DD does not follow the group because he wanted to dodge a different way through the Glacial Fist AoE to not get killed by it? Well, I've already placed my Illustrious on the next Storm Atro so, unfortunately, the DDs that fell behind/went another way have no HoTs on them. I could throw an Orb in the direction of the DD that took the meteor hit, but someone who needed it for sustain/the Major Slayer buff just popped it, so he loses out on that HoT now too. Then what about my DD who dodged the other way to avoid Glacial Fist-- what if he's got Storm Bound on him too, or perhaps some other kind of AoE damage is around him? I could put my Illustrious on him, but then my DDs killing the Storm Atro have no more HoTs on them. I could throw him an Orb, but what if it's immediately popped?
My thoughts on this are extremely jumbled at the moment, so I hope my fellow healers will be able to help me out here/people will understand the point I'm trying to make: We use Orbs and Grand Healing together for all our healing needs, not just one or the other exclusively.
We do not consider Grand Healing a "hybrid spammable hybrid HoT". We consider it a strong HoT that, if used intelligently and at the right moments, will provide consistent healing over time when and where we need it, perhaps in multiple places at once which is essential during movement-heavy fights. We do not use it as a spammable at all because it does nothing more than heal, and we as end-game healers are not JUST healers-- we are buffers, debuffers, and synergy providers. We are the ultimate supporters of our team, and we do this by using a multitude of skills in our kits, not just heal spamming.
Now, I really don't mind the change to Grand Healing and only being able to have one down at a time. What I do not like alongside this change is the "1 orb at a time" change, particularly for the reasons I mentioned above (in movement heavy fights, what HoTs are we supposed to provide our group then as we move from one location to the next, perhaps not all together?), though also because they play such a huge role when it comes to helping our DDs sustain.
How end-game healers currently use Orbs when it comes to offering sustain: We throw lots of them out at once because we know our DDs might not be in a position to take them right away, might be on Orb cooldown, might be saving the proc to perfectly time their Major Slayer, etc.
How the proposed Orb change will impact sustain: We can only have one Orb active at a time, which means we should no longer cast multiple Orbs in a row because this may not give our DDs enough time to synergize them. This means we will be throwing way fewer Orbs in total, and DDs will be receiving way less than before because only one may exist at a time. We also can no longer rely on multiple Orbs to provide the HoTs we need, which means we will have to spend more time casting pure-healing skills, and so will have even less time to throw Orbs.
In short, I think these changes will turn end-game healers more into "pure" heal spammers, and will greatly impact the other ways in which we can support our team. Regarding the proposed Grand Healing change in particular-- I think it would be fine on its own, but NOT if the "1 orb at a time" change makes it live alongside it. I also think that "1 orb at a time" will severely, negatively impact sustain in trials because we will not be able to provide our DDs with all that they need.
Again, my thoughts here are a bit jumbled, and I invite everyone, especially other end-game healers, to provide their own thoughts as well. Thanks for reading.