Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Sandman929 · May 2019

What I wouldn't give to witness ZOS's investigation in to counterplay options so that they can keep this ridiculous idea alive and save some face.

Minno · May 2019

Pelican wrote: »

Maybe they're just making this change so that everyone will make a necromancer, since necromancer will be the only class able to counter this since it has a purge that costs HP, not mag.

Lol yea sadly the case.

Anyron · May 2019

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

If you are investigating counter-play for silence keep in mind there is ultimate ability called negate,
keep negate still usable

DoonerSeraph · May 2019

Why dont you remove the silence and add that heal absorption you removed from Ruinous Scythe? Incap is not a spammable althougt its a cheap ulti, I think 3k heal absorption is good enough and serves the purpose of killing while leaving room for counterplay (most burst heals exceed 3k in PvP)

WatchYourSixx · May 2019

Idk why everyone is making a big deal of this. 1 roll dodge takes up most of this time and the rest is barely enough to get 1 hit in. But whatever keep complaining about a good change. You can still block, you can still use pots, you can still roll dodge. You can still have hots on you, you can still have Shields on you.

brandonv516 · May 2019

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Idk why everyone is making a big deal of this. 1 roll dodge takes up most of this time and the rest is barely enough to get 1 hit in. But whatever keep complaining about a good change. You can still block, you can still use pots, you can still roll dodge. You can still have hots on you, you can still have Shields on you.

1 won't cut it. 2 will do. But then you are dangerously low on stamina. Smart NBs will Fear you after the Silence is up and you will not be able to break free.

=Death

Juhasow · May 2019

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Is... Is this NB nerf thread ?
Sorry I had to ask about that... I just had to...

Anyway, it is another day, I kinda was thinking of various scenarios and tbh. the silence on this ulti is kinda OP. Sure - it is only 3 seconds and I am pretty sure that there will be situations where you could technically even not notice that (like in for example 4 - 5 seconds lag in cyro in which skill dont work at all etc).
But... But it can be too much for certain classes to handle. I usually run hybrid builds so I can understand both stamina & magicks players. Some ideas:
1. Remove the silence, but also reduce ulti cost 120 -> 110 or 100 ulti.
2. Replace the silence with some skill cost de-buff (so you will be able to use them but they will be more expensive, similar to what poisons do). Important note here is not to make them stack with those poisons.
3. Replace silence with some passive buff that works after triggering the ultimate.

Also I would like to point out that incap changes actually overshadows all the nerfs that NB got this patch. They lost a lot of usefull tools they had in their kit. Tanking role & healing role were gutted hard and mag NB will be pretty much an underdog class. That is ofcourse if those incap changes will go live. Because if they do, the next patch ZOS will futher "remove redundancy" by removing some other usefull tools from NB's kit argumenting that they have acces to silence etc. I would rather have some stabilty to be able to plan my build to grind the gear and make it work. You can say anything about nb changes but stability is not one of them. It is a totall chaos and mess...

Nah, this is more of a "wow I cant believe that the incap silence got past the Brainstorming Phase our devs really dont know how this game works do they?" thread^^.
That being said lets Delve int your comment.

It´s nice that you too are now acknowledging that this Change is problematic to say the least. 3 Seconds of not being able to cast any ability really isnt all that short of a time, if you want an adequate comparison just duel a stamblade on a magclass with 10 mag abilities while Standing inside a negate for 3 seconds without being allowed to leave it and that is being generous and assuming that outnumbered PvP doesnt exist. After that you can tell me how short 3 seconds really are in a PvP fight where only one side can act.
Towards your incap ideas:
1. Incap still has a 70 base cost, the 120 ult cost Version is there if you want to make half of the PvP Population free AP.
2. We really dont Need more cost increase than poisons we really dont.
3. Incap already got a passive buff for only slotting it.
4. Why can no nightblade Player accept that incap at 70 cost is a very strong single target burst ultimate that increases your following Damage in the next 6 seconds by 20% and that this is already more than enough for a 70 ult cost?
5. Swap pts incap with 70 ult cost with pts empowering sweep and you will see what I mean.

Nightblade didnt get only nerfs tho, nightblade still has Access to fracture and if you dont have space for mark target then you can start doing what stamsorc and stamplar have been doing since the very Inception of their class, get fracture elsewhere or deal with it. Minor Berserk got redistributed to minor vulnerability which arguably is stronger than berserk since it buffs the Damage of all your allies aswell as your own. Nightblades got a 4 seconds snare removal (strongest in the game alongside Forward Momentum) which is a Carbon copy of Shuffle only in better and not restricted to armor choices and gives class passives. Nightblades got a 15% Damage Mitigation in Exchange for minor Endurance (which already gets replaced with reave on incap). It is really astonishing how many nightblade Players think nightblades are actually getting nerfed in the current pts build.

@Tommy_The_Gun

The only positive Thing that I can think of current incap Change has is it being most likely banned in dueling tournaments.

Lets also not forget about power extraction changes. I think many people dont realise that power extraction on PTS hits harder then steel tornado even on enemies under 25% health. Basically power extraction spam gives 10-15% more dmg then steel tornado spam for the similar cost. It also charges Your ult through nb passives , grants major brutality for 20 seconds and it's disease dmg so it have 5% chance to apply major defile. All of that for just 1 meter smaller radius. And it doesnt require dw so even heavy armor s&b stamblades will be able now to have strong AoE to spam.

jaws343 · May 2019

Juhasow wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Is... Is this NB nerf thread ?
Sorry I had to ask about that... I just had to...

Anyway, it is another day, I kinda was thinking of various scenarios and tbh. the silence on this ulti is kinda OP. Sure - it is only 3 seconds and I am pretty sure that there will be situations where you could technically even not notice that (like in for example 4 - 5 seconds lag in cyro in which skill dont work at all etc).
But... But it can be too much for certain classes to handle. I usually run hybrid builds so I can understand both stamina & magicks players. Some ideas:
1. Remove the silence, but also reduce ulti cost 120 -> 110 or 100 ulti.
2. Replace the silence with some skill cost de-buff (so you will be able to use them but they will be more expensive, similar to what poisons do). Important note here is not to make them stack with those poisons.
3. Replace silence with some passive buff that works after triggering the ultimate.

Also I would like to point out that incap changes actually overshadows all the nerfs that NB got this patch. They lost a lot of usefull tools they had in their kit. Tanking role & healing role were gutted hard and mag NB will be pretty much an underdog class. That is ofcourse if those incap changes will go live. Because if they do, the next patch ZOS will futher "remove redundancy" by removing some other usefull tools from NB's kit argumenting that they have acces to silence etc. I would rather have some stabilty to be able to plan my build to grind the gear and make it work. You can say anything about nb changes but stability is not one of them. It is a totall chaos and mess...

Nah, this is more of a "wow I cant believe that the incap silence got past the Brainstorming Phase our devs really dont know how this game works do they?" thread^^.
That being said lets Delve int your comment.

It´s nice that you too are now acknowledging that this Change is problematic to say the least. 3 Seconds of not being able to cast any ability really isnt all that short of a time, if you want an adequate comparison just duel a stamblade on a magclass with 10 mag abilities while Standing inside a negate for 3 seconds without being allowed to leave it and that is being generous and assuming that outnumbered PvP doesnt exist. After that you can tell me how short 3 seconds really are in a PvP fight where only one side can act.
Towards your incap ideas:
1. Incap still has a 70 base cost, the 120 ult cost Version is there if you want to make half of the PvP Population free AP.
2. We really dont Need more cost increase than poisons we really dont.
3. Incap already got a passive buff for only slotting it.
4. Why can no nightblade Player accept that incap at 70 cost is a very strong single target burst ultimate that increases your following Damage in the next 6 seconds by 20% and that this is already more than enough for a 70 ult cost?
5. Swap pts incap with 70 ult cost with pts empowering sweep and you will see what I mean.

Nightblade didnt get only nerfs tho, nightblade still has Access to fracture and if you dont have space for mark target then you can start doing what stamsorc and stamplar have been doing since the very Inception of their class, get fracture elsewhere or deal with it. Minor Berserk got redistributed to minor vulnerability which arguably is stronger than berserk since it buffs the Damage of all your allies aswell as your own. Nightblades got a 4 seconds snare removal (strongest in the game alongside Forward Momentum) which is a Carbon copy of Shuffle only in better and not restricted to armor choices and gives class passives. Nightblades got a 15% Damage Mitigation in Exchange for minor Endurance (which already gets replaced with reave on incap). It is really astonishing how many nightblade Players think nightblades are actually getting nerfed in the current pts build.

@Tommy_The_Gun

The only positive Thing that I can think of current incap Change has is it being most likely banned in dueling tournaments.

Lets also not forget about power extraction changes. I think many people dont realise that power extraction on PTS hits harder then steel tornado even on enemies under 25% health. Basically power extraction spam gives 10-15% more dmg then steel tornado spam for the similar cost. It also charges Your ult through nb passives , grants major brutality for 20 seconds and it's disease dmg so it have 5% chance to apply major defile. All of that for just 1 meter smaller radius. And it doesnt require dw so even heavy armor s&b stamblades will be able now to have strong AoE to spam.

Incap From Stealth>Power Extraction>Fear>Power Extraction>Killer's Blade>Dead (Not even taking into account light attack weave, or the fact that the dead part probably happens before you even get to Killer's Blade. Good luck dodge rolling an AOE, or blocking Fear.)

Deathlord92 · May 2019

Mitaka211 wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler how about you address the classes that have clear issues in pvp , instead of pandering to the two most popular classes , sorc and nb. Unless you haven't noticed not everyone wants to play as a magika caster. How about you have a hard look at stamsorcs and stamplars and all the feedback players have bothered to leave to the reps. The lack of attention is a slap in the face to a lot of player. But praise the sun am i right?
Hey , why would you care about unpopular play styles ?
Explain to me how you butcher Empowering Sweep , hey one more reason for us templars not to use our own ults am i right, and make the conclusion that NB (the strongest class in the current meta) needs silence. Combine it with their fear and i am looking forward to your "possible" counters without blowing up all your stamina and dying 3 sec later. You know, us stamplars can't use 90% of our abilities after all and have no way of mitigating damage, i am really looking forward to using the troll king set for the rest of this mmos life if i want to play with stamplar . Great range of choices just as we were promised!
Dks can get a cool thematic ult , which is one of the coolest looking things in the game but stamsorcs and stamplars are left being generic warriors 2.0 . Can we at least get any information that you are looking into these clear unbalances, and most importantly lack of identity stamsorc and stamplars face?

Stam sorc sure definitely needs love stamplar this made me laugh as its a very strong class already and a very common one in groups right next to stam warden magblade deserves more attention then stamplar lol 😂

Yea dude , i really doubt you have any understanding of how stamplar works. If i made the same build i use on my stamplar on a warden or a dk(the same idea at least) i would perform much better in pvp. Stamina users can perform well because of non class skills. What ultimate can a stamplar use that is not inferior to a guild or weapon ult? Do you even know the state of our passives or hos jabs perform in general. Stamplar is common in groups? Are you for real? Stamplar performs best in chaotic pvp, in well organized small groups there is no reason to take a stamplar over any other stamina class, well maybe only over a stamsorc.

At least you can do well on a stamplar solo and group play I seen it on yt and in game try playing a magblade with out any defensive sets the class doesn’t even have a good self heal

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Idk why everyone is making a big deal of this. 1 roll dodge takes up most of this time and the rest is barely enough to get 1 hit in. But whatever keep complaining about a good change. You can still block, you can still use pots, you can still roll dodge. You can still have hots on you, you can still have Shields on you.

Since this would be competely unproblematic can we get a strong, rather cheap mag ult that disables all stam usage for 3 seconds? You can still block with an ice staff and spam healing springs on your stamblade afterall.
@WatchYourSixx

jaws343 · May 2019

Gilvoth wrote: »

only the sorcerer should be allowed to have a strong ultimate.

Negate: Move out of it and it is no longer effective

Overload: Dodge it

Storm Attro: Move away from it and it is useless

Such great ultimates in the sorc toolkit.

TequilaFire · May 2019

Forum Sorcs when threatened.

frostz417 · May 2019

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

REVERT THE CHANGES. DONT MAKE UP SOME HALFASS “COUNTERPLAY” while you’re at it, revert the Race against time changes too. Ffs what has gotten into you guys to nerf race against time and make incap negate.

Silver_Strider · May 2019

Baphomet wrote: »

Dear Devs, there's no need to look for counter-play options - simply remove the silence effect again and instantly generate 200 credibility points with your playerbase.

"After hearing your concerns, we've removed Silence from Incapacitating Strike. It will now provide Major Vulnerability for 6 seconds instead"

"Mark Target: Added a Silence effect to this ability and Morphs for the full duration."

When will people learn that asking for Buffs=Nerfs and asking for Nerfs=Buffs UNLESS you're a Sorc or Templar, you guys just get shafted 100% of the time.

ilcavallo · May 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Forum Sorcs when threatened.

Pure gold

Feanor · May 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Forum Sorcs when threatened.

Would it make you feel better if magTemplars, magWardens, or magNBs we’re voicing there concerns instead? Because essentially everyone who relies on a magicka based heal or shield for defense will be affected by it. This is not a Sorc vs NB thing. It’s the question if a powerful debuff that cancels out whole class defenses for 3 seconds should be added to an already strong ultimate.

Mitaka211 · May 2019

ilcavallo wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Forum Sorcs when threatened.

Pure gold

I have noticed there is a distinct behavior NBs and magsorcs fallow. Magsorcs go full rage mode, and NBs go full innocent baby mode .
Mag sorc : "Sorcs are the weakest class already we don't have this we don't have that. Anyone can counter us. Nerf every patch . I will stop playing if you do this ZOS

"

NBs "NB has been my favorite class since day one , pls don't ruin my class ZOS

"

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Forum Sorcs when threatened.

More like every mag player and player that cares about balance in general but keep up your vendetta against magsorcs which renders you blind to see that the silence counters more than magsorcs without counterplay.

Morgul667 · May 2019

This is not a magsorc thing

This is basic balance issue

EcclesiaFides · May 2019

Fix is simple: reduce length of silence to 1.5 or 2 seconds and increase the ult threshold to get the silence to like 150 or 200. I like the silence addition (and I play mag) because it fits NBs class theme perfectly (using darkness, fear, and silence...can't think of anymore more nightblade-esque). 1.5 or 2 seconds would give more breathing room for counterplay.

But ya'll - the damn skill is called "Incapacitating Strike". If you remove stun, defile, and silence - how does it in fact incapacitate the target at all? That's all I'm saying. But right now its ultra powerful for ultra low cost so it needs adjustment for sure. I just want it to be given a chance because I think it could work.

TequilaFire · May 2019

I rest my case. lmao
edit - Lighten up this won't make it to live as is.

Sanguinor2 · May 2019

EcclesiaFides wrote: »

Fix is simple: reduce length of silence to 1.5 or 2 seconds and increase the ult threshold to get the silence to like 150 or 200. I like the silence addition (and I play mag) because it fits NBs class theme perfectly (using darkness, fear, and silence...can't think of anymore more nightblade-esque). 1.5 or 2 seconds would give more breathing room for counterplay.

But ya'll - the damn skill is called "Incapacitating Strike". If you remove stun, defile, and silence - how does it in fact incapacitate the target at all? That's all I'm saying. But right now its ultra powerful for ultra low cost so it needs adjustment for sure. I just want it to be given a chance because I think it could work.

Incap is a very potent burst ult with its tooltip, the 20percent increased damage debuff alone. May I refer you to empowering sweep? Compare it with in incap and tell me incap without 3 debuffs is weak.

As for the name take a look at reflective plate not very reflective anymore is it? Can easily change incaps name if that is your concern, has been done for other abilities afterall.

Feanor · May 2019

@TequilaFire

Maybe it’s time to talk about the reason so many NBs seem to perceive Incap as weak - it has to compete with DBoS. I was baffled when I saw this in 5.0.0:

Fighters Guild
Dawnbreaker: Increased the delay on the Damage over Time effect to 2 seconds from 1 second. Total duration is now 6 seconds, rather than 5 seconds.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting (morph): The stun from this ability no longer ranks up from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds; instead, it is a flat 2 seconds at all ranks. This morph now progressively gets stronger in damage as it ranks up instead. This will result in a 5.7% initial hit damage increase, and a 9% Damage over Time portion increase.

However the discussion about it never gained much traction as it was drowned in the Necro and now Incap noise.

I just can’t understand why DBoS has escaped adjustments for so long and gets buffs instead.

TequilaFire · May 2019

Feanor wrote: »

@TequilaFire

Maybe it’s time to talk about the reason so many NBs seem to perceive Incap as weak - it has to compete with DBoS. I was baffled when I saw this in 5.0.0:

Fighters Guild
Dawnbreaker: Increased the delay on the Damage over Time effect to 2 seconds from 1 second. Total duration is now 6 seconds, rather than 5 seconds.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting (morph): The stun from this ability no longer ranks up from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds; instead, it is a flat 2 seconds at all ranks. This morph now progressively gets stronger in damage as it ranks up instead. This will result in a 5.7% initial hit damage increase, and a 9% Damage over Time portion increase.

However the discussion about it never gained much traction as it was drowned in the Necro and now Incap noise.

I just can’t understand why DBoS has escaped adjustments for so long and gets buffs instead.

DBOS is available to all and is go to ult of most melee small scalers which of late have heavy influence on class reps and are the most vocal of the PvP crowd.
I use DBOS on my brawler stamblade as well as my stamplar.

DreadDaedroth · May 2019

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

Gilvoth · May 2019

you allready know its gona get removed and changed.

Feanor · May 2019

TequilaFire wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@TequilaFire

Maybe it’s time to talk about the reason so many NBs seem to perceive Incap as weak - it has to compete with DBoS. I was baffled when I saw this in 5.0.0:

Fighters Guild
Dawnbreaker: Increased the delay on the Damage over Time effect to 2 seconds from 1 second. Total duration is now 6 seconds, rather than 5 seconds.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting (morph): The stun from this ability no longer ranks up from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds; instead, it is a flat 2 seconds at all ranks. This morph now progressively gets stronger in damage as it ranks up instead. This will result in a 5.7% initial hit damage increase, and a 9% Damage over Time portion increase.

However the discussion about it never gained much traction as it was drowned in the Necro and now Incap noise.

I just can’t understand why DBoS has escaped adjustments for so long and gets buffs instead.

DBOS is available to all and is go to ult of most melee small scalers which of late have heavy influence on class reps and are the most vocal of the PvP crowd.
I use DBOS on my brawler stamblade as well as my stamplar.

Yes, but do you think then every class ultimate needs the power level of DBoS? I think that’s not a healthy approach.

Gilvoth · May 2019

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

it wasnt a mistake
they only gona change it because MASS complaints.
this happens every single time sorcerer gets touched in the SLIGHTEST.
allways has been, allways will be.

Feanor · May 2019

Gilvoth wrote: »

DreadDaedroth wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Admit the mistake and delete this change. Simple.

it wasnt a mistake
they only gona change it because MASS complaints.
this happens every single time sorcerer gets touched in the SLIGHTEST.
allways has been, allways will be.

No, they are (hopefully) going to change it because it’s not a well thought out design idea. Besides, why would you care? Archers don’t find a lot of situations for utilizing Incap normally. But I know why the idea of a silence has so much appeal for you. I do remember your suggestions for a NB skill greying out the opponents skills for ten seconds.

Rikumaru · May 2019

Feanor wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@TequilaFire

Maybe it’s time to talk about the reason so many NBs seem to perceive Incap as weak - it has to compete with DBoS. I was baffled when I saw this in 5.0.0:

Fighters Guild
Dawnbreaker: Increased the delay on the Damage over Time effect to 2 seconds from 1 second. Total duration is now 6 seconds, rather than 5 seconds.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting (morph): The stun from this ability no longer ranks up from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds; instead, it is a flat 2 seconds at all ranks. This morph now progressively gets stronger in damage as it ranks up instead. This will result in a 5.7% initial hit damage increase, and a 9% Damage over Time portion increase.

However the discussion about it never gained much traction as it was drowned in the Necro and now Incap noise.

I just can’t understand why DBoS has escaped adjustments for so long and gets buffs instead.

DBOS is available to all and is go to ult of most melee small scalers which of late have heavy influence on class reps and are the most vocal of the PvP crowd.
I use DBOS on my brawler stamblade as well as my stamplar.

Yes, but do you think then every class ultimate needs the power level of DBoS? I think that’s not a healthy approach.

Class ultimates especially single target ones should be better or be competitive with DBoS. I know you only have mag sorc chars but it actually sucks that DBoS is pretty much the best stamina ultimate with only incap (and every necro ulti) rivaling it. Incap should always be better than DBoS in a 1v1 because DBoS is an AOE ultimate and incap is single target. Not to mention it's a class defining ultimate.

Honestly if they kept the stun at 120 ultimate and just gave the resource return passive incap would be perfectly fine. Whatever the case is though, the silence needs to go otherwise rip magicka builds in open world.