mr_wazzabi wrote: »Solid arguements here. Not sure why such bad decisions are made with @ZOS_Gilliam on the team.
I've been running a medium armor stam DK with bow / 2h, with Dizzy as a main "spammable".
"Spammable" being relative, considering the only fights where I get to spam it are essentially 1 on 1 scenarios against very low mobility targets.
Fighting nightblades with it becomes is a friggin' nightmare since you get to enjoy cloak on top of the usual rolling:
https://clips.twitch.tv/PhilanthropicBrainyCrabTriHard
Fighting mag sorcs ain't much better with Streak or Clench spam:
https://clips.twitch.tv/WittyTolerantPheasantBuddhaBar
Best part is probably that the DoTs did most of the work and that Dizzy wasn't even used for the killing blow.
Every time you get snared while an opponent is getting away, you have to cancel it, reapply a snare immunity tool and try again. That applies for fighting templars who drop their ritual, snaring you by 30%, which means they get out of range fast. That applies for all situations where the opponent puts significant pressure on you. That applies for all situations where your opponent has SnB to block, to rolly pollies, to Streak, to pet LoSers, to root / snare spammers, to cloakers, to just about 90% of the fights I encounter.
The damage it provides does in no way justify the pain you have to go through just to be able to land at most 2 in a row, when most instant cast spammables provide even on paper almost as much damage as Dizzy and an order of magnitude more in practice.
I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?
I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?
In certain situations? Its every situation except one, when both you and your enemy are standing still. That is not something that happens often.
So what, if i CC someone, and they dont have the stam to break free, then i shouldn't be able to have the extra damage? Because of that rare situation? Plus its the other players fault for not having the sustain to CC break, because most of the time people will not just sit in the CC..
There are a few problems overall that are highlighted with this nerf. Zos is out of touch with the game and how different certain abilities are. Blanket changes to try to get balance is not a good idea. Not all skills are equal and not all classes are equal. And performance plays a massive role in how this skill works, so not all platforms and play styles (pvp vs pve) are equal. Some suffer more from zos' terrible game performance (like console and pvp)..
Zos has a problem with indirectly nerfing things little by little. Death by a thousand cuts. They have done this with small scale pvp. All their nerfs and changes over the years have put solo/small scale in the gutter. But they've also done it with stam sorc by changing the few things we utilize and never buffing the class.. Instead of buffing classes that need it they choose nerf other classes and abilities. This change will just be another strike against a class with very little at its disposal, and an ability that is already extremely hard to use in the current state of this game.
I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?
In certain situations? Its every situation except one, when both you and your enemy are standing still. That is not something that happens often.
So what, if i CC someone, and they dont have the stam to break free, then i shouldn't be able to have the extra damage? Because of that rare situation? Plus its the other players fault for not having the sustain to CC break, because most of the time people will not just sit in the CC..
There are a few problems overall that are highlighted with this nerf. Zos is out of touch with the game and how different certain abilities are. Blanket changes to try to get balance is not a good idea. Not all skills are equal and not all classes are equal. And performance plays a massive role in how this skill works, so not all platforms and play styles (pvp vs pve) are equal. Some suffer more from zos' terrible game performance (like console and pvp)..
Zos has a problem with indirectly nerfing things little by little. Death by a thousand cuts. They have done this with small scale pvp. All their nerfs and changes over the years have put solo/small scale in the gutter. But they've also done it with stam sorc by changing the few things we utilize and never buffing the class.. Instead of buffing classes that need it they choose nerf other classes and abilities. This change will just be another strike against a class with very little at its disposal, and an ability that is already extremely hard to use in the current state of this game.
So if it’s the other person’s fault for not having the sustain to break free then it’s equally your fault for not being able to land the ability.
I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?
I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?
In certain situations? Its every situation except one, when both you and your enemy are standing still. That is not something that happens often.
So what, if i CC someone, and they dont have the stam to break free, then i shouldn't be able to have the extra damage? Because of that rare situation? Plus its the other players fault for not having the sustain to CC break, because most of the time people will not just sit in the CC..
There are a few problems overall that are highlighted with this nerf. Zos is out of touch with the game and how different certain abilities are. Blanket changes to try to get balance is not a good idea. Not all skills are equal and not all classes are equal. And performance plays a massive role in how this skill works, so not all platforms and play styles (pvp vs pve) are equal. Some suffer more from zos' terrible game performance (like console and pvp)..
Zos has a problem with indirectly nerfing things little by little. Death by a thousand cuts. They have done this with small scale pvp. All their nerfs and changes over the years have put solo/small scale in the gutter. But they've also done it with stam sorc by changing the few things we utilize and never buffing the class.. Instead of buffing classes that need it they choose nerf other classes and abilities. This change will just be another strike against a class with very little at its disposal, and an ability that is already extremely hard to use in the current state of this game.
So if it’s the other person’s fault for not having the sustain to break free then it’s equally your fault for not being able to land the ability.
Anti_Virus wrote: »If you pay close attention, Zos knows cast time melee skills suck so the new artifact weapon ‘volundrung’ is a 2h weapon with an instant cast single target spammable ability. Look it up.
I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.
The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.
Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..
Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.
Post global cooldownRemoved the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert
Oh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?
We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.
I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.
But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.
I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.
The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.
Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..
Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.
Post global cooldownRemoved the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471538/stam-sorcs-seriously-need-some-changes#latestOh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?
We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.
I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.
But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.
I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.
The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.
Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..
Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.
Post global cooldownRemoved the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471538/stam-sorcs-seriously-need-some-changes#latestOh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?
We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.
I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.
But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.
Not sure why you linked this but im assuming this is a class rep? Either way its good to know they are telling them stam sorc needs attention. I dont blame thee class reps but who is the dedicated stam sorc class rep?
And regardless it is a nerf. I dont care if you can light attack faster or whatever, its not reliable in pvp. Certainly not with 2 competent players moving around, and certainly not with the current game performance. It is 100% a nerf.
So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.
The fact that the skill isnt reliable at all is the problem here, not the 14% damage reduction. So if anything, the skill needs improvement to hit enemies more often. I personally stopped using it quickly because you often waste resources on casting it (enemies leve the range for a millisecond and it cancels itself for example). So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.
I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.
The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.
Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..
Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.
Post global cooldownRemoved the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471538/stam-sorcs-seriously-need-some-changes#latestOh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?
We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.
I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.
But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.
Not sure why you linked this but im assuming this is a class rep? Either way its good to know they are telling them stam sorc needs attention. I dont blame thee class reps but who is the dedicated stam sorc class rep?
And regardless it is a nerf. I dont care if you can light attack faster or whatever, its not reliable in pvp. Certainly not with 2 competent players moving around, and certainly not with the current game performance. It is 100% a nerf.
The fact that the skill isnt reliable at all is the problem here, not the 14% damage reduction. So if anything, the skill needs improvement to hit enemies more often. I personally stopped using it quickly because you often waste resources on casting it (enemies leve the range for a millisecond and it cancels itself for example). So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.
Elwendryll wrote: »
The fact that the skill isnt reliable at all is the problem here, not the 14% damage reduction. So if anything, the skill needs improvement to hit enemies more often. I personally stopped using it quickly because you often waste resources on casting it (enemies leve the range for a millisecond and it cancels itself for example). So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.
I genuinely wonder what the 200 ms reduction is supposed to do.
I use Wrecking Blow in PVE. So, does this mean now I can use light attacks 200ms sooner each time, or does this mean I can cast an other Wrecking Blow 200 ms faster?
Because in pve I don't have any issue landing it, it's fine as a spammable, the timing for weaving is quite tricky I would say, but that's it. On PTS I don't see the benefits of this 200 ms reduction, I don't see how it should benefit me in my rotation. Maybe that's the lag, maybe I just don't know what I should be looking for when comparing with live, but right now, in one minute, I have the same number of casts on live and PTS. And I use as many light attacks. So, my dps is just lower.
So, can you enlighten me on this 200 "post global" cooldown? I'm not quite sure I understand what it really is.
[...] Now that window is gone, so you can fire a light attack or other skill immediately after WB is over for example. That is why it was reduced by 14% in damage, but increased by 16.6% in pace cause you can use it within 1s windows instead os 1.2s windows.
It was there for visual reasons so your character could finish the animation of the skill (or at least partially could). Beam skills retained a 0.1s window afterwards because otherwise it'd look really weird.