Uppercut change is a mistake

Ragnarock41

J18696 wrote: »

I honestly thought this skills dmg would be reverted in the 2nd or 3rd pts week once they realised no one is using this skill for pve and never will unless they removed the cast time

I expected they would revert it at least for wrecking blow, since it is the inferior morph in PvP. I was wrong.

Elong

J18696 wrote: »

I honestly thought this skills dmg would be reverted in the 2nd or 3rd pts week once they realised no one is using this skill for pve and never will unless they removed the cast time

Maybe they're adding a silence to it.

eso_lags

Elong wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

I honestly thought this skills dmg would be reverted in the 2nd or 3rd pts week once they realised no one is using this skill for pve and never will unless they removed the cast time

Maybe they're adding a silence to it.

It would make more sense than adding it to incap. 100%. but either way that change is inanity.

eso_lags

More patch notes and no changes. Epic. Meanwhile gina can answer questions about when the patch notes are coming, and other zos members can comment on threads about peoples cats.. But real issues? No reply. Amazing.

ilcavallo

eso_lags wrote: »

More patch notes and no changes. Epic. Meanwhile gina can answer questions about when the patch notes are coming, and other zos members can comment on threads about peoples cats.. But real issues? No reply. Amazing.

I know right? Must be nice to get this type of response:

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

eso_lags

ilcavallo wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

More patch notes and no changes. Epic. Meanwhile gina can answer questions about when the patch notes are coming, and other zos members can comment on threads about peoples cats.. But real issues? No reply. Amazing.

I know right? Must be nice to get this type of response:

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Hmm I did not see that on the dev tracker. What a god awful idea to have in the first place though. Honestly, I would hope they would have been working on that, since nightblalde is one of the most popular classes in the game, and the way it was would have been game breaking, but I dont think they came up with a much better solution. A bit better, but not much.

It seems dswing and performance are not as important though. Dswing i get, not many people use it and really only stam sorc needs it to play the class with a 2h. Any other class has class abilities to rely on, but we all know how zos feels about stam sorc.

Ya ignoring dswing makes sense but ignoring performance is the confusing part. Especially with all these new players.

kookster

RIP dizzy swing 2019, time to go to the sword and board defile play style...

eso_lags

kookster wrote: »

RIP dizzy swing 2019, time to go to the sword and board defile play style...

Its not a complete rip. Its literally just making a bad play style harder to play for no reason at all. Zos does this a lot.. Its A stupid change that will never work, especially the way pvp performance is. I really hope the class reps speak up, but like i said before its not a popular play style and it really only hurts stam sorry the most since we have so little viable play styles, so not many people care..

Xogath

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

Chilly-McFreeze

I really don't like the direction eso combat is heading.
Separating offense bit by bit from defense kills unique and interesting builds and skill.
Bringing every skill "in line" -without considering the consequences - pushes some skills into complete uselessness and nerfs certain playstyles especially.
All while handing out "rule breakers" that are absolutely unnecessary and a punch in the face of those who would rather need it (shuffle <> blur).
It seems like rather boring times ahead.

eso_lags

Xogath wrote: »

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

The nerfs need to stop. Wreckingblow used to do everything both morphs did but it was nerfed. There are plenty of abilities that are strong and do multiple things and 99% are not as hard to use as dswing is. It should be rewarded, not nerfed even if its a slight nerf.

And stam sorc shouldn't need dswing, it should have its own abilities like every other damn class. Even stam dk doesnt need dswing. Reverb and class skills wit execute. Defile plus dots, very strong. But for some reason zos hates stam sorc.

And surprise attack was changed because stamblade had so much in its kit. You have to take it all into account. But i think they should not be nerfiing anything, they should be buffing classes like stam sorc, and others, to make them on par with top classes.

eso_lags

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I really don't like the direction eso combat is heading.
Separating offense bit by bit from defense kills unique and interesting builds and skill.
Bringing every skill "in line" -without considering the consequences - pushes some skills into complete uselessness and nerfs certain playstyles especially.
All while handing out "rule breakers" that are absolutely unnecessary and a punch in the face of those who would rather need it (shuffle <> blur).
It seems like rather boring times ahead.

Exactly. I really think they are trying to make everything in their own same categories and make those skills every similar. The problem is that we dont want or need that and they will never accomplish it. And even if they do it will destroy eso combat, and eso combat is the only reason i play this mess. It is my favorite combat system out of any mmo ive ever played.

usmcjdking

Xogath wrote: »

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

DSwing takes so long to resolve in optimal conditions that it simply has to hit like a truck to justify it's use on classes that do not have access to another spammable, and then it has to hit hard enough to justify it's use on classes that do have access to another spammable.

If DSwing actually only took 1 second from button press to resolution, then yeah, you could probably have a better time balancing it. But it doesn't. In PVP it can take upwards of 10 seconds to resolve, and with average resolution times under reasonable conditions reaching two seconds.

eso_lags

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

DSwing takes so long to resolve in optimal conditions that it simply has to hit like a truck to justify it's use on classes that do not have access to another spammable, and then it has to hit hard enough to justify it's use on classes that do have access to another spammable.

If DSwing actually only took 1 second from button press to resolution, then yeah, you could probably have a better time balancing it. But it doesn't. In PVP it can take upwards of 10 seconds to resolve, and with average resolution times under reasonable conditions reaching two seconds.

Exactly. Im surprised zos, with all their experience and insight, have not yet realized that just because something looks good on paper does not mean its going to work in thee game (or wherever). When performance is this bad nothing is certain. Dswiing usually takes 6+ seconds for me.. Zos needs to start taking everything into account when making decisions.

Crixus8000

J18696 wrote: »

Its not a complete rip. Its literally just making a bad play style harder to play for no reason at all. Zos does this a lot.. Its A stupid change that will never work, especially the way pvp performance is. I really hope the class reps speak up, but like i said before its not a popular play style and it really only hurts stam sorry the most since we have so little viable play styles, so not many people care..

No but it's pretty close. I have used dizzy ever since I started basically and this patch I will change. It's already arguably weaking than snb yet they nerf it's one advantage, being burst. Makes no sense to me.

Feanor

eso_lags wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

DSwing takes so long to resolve in optimal conditions that it simply has to hit like a truck to justify it's use on classes that do not have access to another spammable, and then it has to hit hard enough to justify it's use on classes that do have access to another spammable.

If DSwing actually only took 1 second from button press to resolution, then yeah, you could probably have a better time balancing it. But it doesn't. In PVP it can take upwards of 10 seconds to resolve, and with average resolution times under reasonable conditions reaching two seconds.

Exactly. Im surprised zos, with all their experience and insight, have not yet realized that just because something looks good on paper does not mean its going to work in thee game (or wherever). When performance is this bad nothing is certain. Dswiing usually takes 6+ seconds for me.. Zos needs to start taking everything into account when making decisions.

You can’t take lag into account for balancing skills though. Sure, people use what works best in the Cyrodiil we have, and that’s one reason why AoE has become so popular again (along with the damage increase). But if you’d take into account how long a skill takes to connect, Dizzy would need to be a one shot effectively if it really takes so much time to finish. You just can’t jack up the damage because it’s not connecting well in lag.

Davadin

eso_lags wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

DSwing takes so long to resolve in optimal conditions that it simply has to hit like a truck to justify it's use on classes that do not have access to another spammable, and then it has to hit hard enough to justify it's use on classes that do have access to another spammable.

If DSwing actually only took 1 second from button press to resolution, then yeah, you could probably have a better time balancing it. But it doesn't. In PVP it can take upwards of 10 seconds to resolve, and with average resolution times under reasonable conditions reaching two seconds.

Exactly. Im surprised zos, with all their experience and insight, have not yet realized that just because something looks good on paper does not mean its going to work in thee game (or wherever). When performance is this bad nothing is certain. Dswiing usually takes 6+ seconds for me.. Zos needs to start taking everything into account when making decisions.

6+ seconds?

dude why are u still playing this game? lol

Runkorko

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

Every class should have 1 spammable and 1 execute for both stam and magicka so that way weapon lines could bring more flexibility for everyone. Just gives dks and sorc their spam skill and stop this madness

Tell me which is stamden spamable ?:D
Dive? Right....

eso_lags

Davadin wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

DSwing takes so long to resolve in optimal conditions that it simply has to hit like a truck to justify it's use on classes that do not have access to another spammable, and then it has to hit hard enough to justify it's use on classes that do have access to another spammable.

If DSwing actually only took 1 second from button press to resolution, then yeah, you could probably have a better time balancing it. But it doesn't. In PVP it can take upwards of 10 seconds to resolve, and with average resolution times under reasonable conditions reaching two seconds.

Exactly. Im surprised zos, with all their experience and insight, have not yet realized that just because something looks good on paper does not mean its going to work in thee game (or wherever). When performance is this bad nothing is certain. Dswiing usually takes 6+ seconds for me.. Zos needs to start taking everything into account when making decisions.

6+ seconds?

dude why are u still playing this game? lol

I probably shouldn't be. Its been turned into garbage for no reason. But I guess when you play something for so many years you dont just want to quit.. At least me, and at least for now. Its hard to not have a tiny bit of hope that they'll fix it. But that 6+ seconds isnt all the time. Its basically only like that in vivec, but in vivec it is like that most of the time. Even much of the time at 4am on a tuesday, or any random non prime time. And this is on xbox.

Really the reason i stay is because I like the combat system, and the game, more than anything else i could play. The performance is my only issue. Wow, gw2, albion, bdo, archeage, ff, ive tried many mmos.. So basically I play eso when i can, not as often as i want to.. Mainly shor at prime time.. Otherwise the only options are a laggy vivec or 2 other dead campaigns. But i've been slowly leveling on PC, its sad that I have to but if i want to pvp but those are the options. Deal with it, quit, or switch to PC. Zos wont fix the issue or offer transfers. All I can do now in eso is enjoy what i can, support zos as little as possible til they improve performance, and remember what they did to this game when they make another game.

eso_lags

runkorkoeb17_ESO wrote: »

crazywolfpusher wrote: »

Every class should have 1 spammable and 1 execute for both stam and magicka so that way weapon lines could bring more flexibility for everyone. Just gives dks and sorc their spam skill and stop this madness

Tell me which is stamden spamable ?:D
Dive? Right....

Dive and sub. I mean if you want to be specific about spamming it then its dive but sub is weaved in after if goes off and is very strong. So i consider it more of a spammable than dive.

eso_lags

Feanor wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

* Revert damage reduction for Uppercut and morphs.

* Dizzying Swing - retain higher damage, retain the cast time, lose one of the CCs. DSwing seems to be one of those abilities that offers a little too much. Rather than neuter it damage-wise, it would be more sensible to either lose one of the CCs it currently has, or be given a different one.

Look at Surprise Attack, it only offered damage and Major Fracture and it had Fracture removed.. yes it offered Stun/Offbalance, but required Stealth which isn't always possible in PvP settings outside of having Cloak.. Dizzying Swing offers 3 things compared to its two, and it doesn't even require Stealth to fully utilize the ability. It does require good timing, though, which is why I suggest it retains the higher damage of the two morphs--so when you do land it, it's rewarding as it is now.

* Wrecking Blow - remove the cast time, adjust damage (lower) to compensate for its new spamability. Increase Empower buff to Light Attacks from 40% to 50%, or even 75%, to compensate for overall lower ability damage.

You now have an acceptable Stamina spammable for the classes you don't want to make new abilities for, which promotes and rewards weaving. This works both for classes that need one (StamDK, Stamsorc), and for those of us who don't want sucked in to the DW meta on every class in the game if we happen to be playing Stamina.

DSwing takes so long to resolve in optimal conditions that it simply has to hit like a truck to justify it's use on classes that do not have access to another spammable, and then it has to hit hard enough to justify it's use on classes that do have access to another spammable.

If DSwing actually only took 1 second from button press to resolution, then yeah, you could probably have a better time balancing it. But it doesn't. In PVP it can take upwards of 10 seconds to resolve, and with average resolution times under reasonable conditions reaching two seconds.

Exactly. Im surprised zos, with all their experience and insight, have not yet realized that just because something looks good on paper does not mean its going to work in thee game (or wherever). When performance is this bad nothing is certain. Dswiing usually takes 6+ seconds for me.. Zos needs to start taking everything into account when making decisions.

You can’t take lag into account for balancing skills though. Sure, people use what works best in the Cyrodiil we have, and that’s one reason why AoE has become so popular again (along with the damage increase). But if you’d take into account how long a skill takes to connect, Dizzy would need to be a one shot effectively if it really takes so much time to finish. You just can’t jack up the damage because it’s not connecting well in lag.

I would agree with you if the lag wasnt a core part of pvp. Its not just something that happens to a couple of people with this ability, it happens to so many people every day. The lag in this gamee is as much a part of pvp as anything else. Either fix it or balance around it.

Of course i dont see that ever happening but they can at least take it into consideration when balancing abilities like snipe and dswing. One allows you to literally insta kill people with 4-6 casts in a row before they even know 1 hit (because off lag) and the other doesn't work most of the time (because of lag).

TumlinTheJolly

PLEASE just revert the damage nerf and then focus on whatever you were trying to achieve in future. Your change doesn't work and we don't want you to kill the skill off until you bother to fix it later.

eso_lags

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

PLEASE just revert the damage nerf and then focus on whatever you were trying to achieve in future. Your change doesn't work and we don't want you to kill the skill off until you bother to fix it later.

3 days away, i dont think they care

usmcjdking

eso_lags wrote: »

TumlinTheJolly wrote: »

PLEASE just revert the damage nerf and then focus on whatever you were trying to achieve in future. Your change doesn't work and we don't want you to kill the skill off until you bother to fix it later.

3 days away, i dont think they care

I am going to have to concur. I don't see why a damage nerf should go live with a beloved but struggling skill when the benefits are either not reasonably reproducible or meaningful.