Uppercut change is a mistake

Sanctuary_Reaper

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

Solid arguements here. Not sure why such bad decisions are made with @ZOS_Gilliam on the team.

Because he now has to tow the line, if he doesnt tow the line, through the door he goes. I suppose thats the downside of getting the job he got.

kookster

This is a perfect example of ZOS balancing a skill around pve parses. Please stop it. Dizzy swing is mostly used by pvpers, not pvers as you can get higher dps out of the other morph. Dizzy swing has always been a high burst skill that you are HIGHLY unlikely to land in rapid succession ever in pvp unless they are just blocking.

Davadin

i dont think i have a lot of problem landing this in PvP. it's tricky and takes practice, yes, but it's not impossible.

my only problem with live version is really the lack of "oomph!" damage it delivers.




welp, guess come June it'll be completely off my bar.

Ragnarock41

Asmael wrote: »

I've been running a medium armor stam DK with bow / 2h, with Dizzy as a main "spammable".

"Spammable" being relative, considering the only fights where I get to spam it are essentially 1 on 1 scenarios against very low mobility targets.

Fighting nightblades with it becomes is a friggin' nightmare since you get to enjoy cloak on top of the usual rolling:

https://clips.twitch.tv/PhilanthropicBrainyCrabTriHard

Fighting mag sorcs ain't much better with Streak or Clench spam:

https://clips.twitch.tv/WittyTolerantPheasantBuddhaBar

Best part is probably that the DoTs did most of the work and that Dizzy wasn't even used for the killing blow.

Every time you get snared while an opponent is getting away, you have to cancel it, reapply a snare immunity tool and try again. That applies for fighting templars who drop their ritual, snaring you by 30%, which means they get out of range fast. That applies for all situations where the opponent puts significant pressure on you. That applies for all situations where your opponent has SnB to block, to rolly pollies, to Streak, to pet LoSers, to root / snare spammers, to cloakers, to just about 90% of the fights I encounter.

The damage it provides does in no way justify the pain you have to go through just to be able to land at most 2 in a row, when most instant cast spammables provide even on paper almost as much damage as Dizzy and an order of magnitude more in practice.

They should have reworked uppercut entirely, but you know, ZOS hates being logical about things. I like how they act like this is a massive buff though.

''Oh hey guys, we buffed uppercut so freakin much we are actually nerfing its damage, enjoy spamming it!'''

Edit: Tbh with gilliam on the team, they MUST be aware of this. But turns out they don't care either way? I really don't know. It feels like all Gilliam ever cares about is his stamblade anyways. (Gilliam, if you're reading this, I dare you to try uppercut yourself in PvP.)

eso_lags

Sheuib wrote: »

I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?

In certain situations? Its every situation except one, when both you and your enemy are standing still. That is not something that happens often.

So what, if i CC someone, and they dont have the stam to break free, then i shouldn't be able to have the extra damage? Because of that rare situation? Plus its the other players fault for not having the sustain to CC break, because most of the time people will not just sit in the CC..

There are a few problems overall that are highlighted with this nerf. Zos is out of touch with the game and how different certain abilities are. Blanket changes to try to get balance is not a good idea. Not all skills are equal and not all classes are equal. And performance plays a massive role in how this skill works, so not all platforms and play styles (pvp vs pve) are equal. Some suffer more from zos' terrible game performance (like console and pvp)..

Zos has a problem with indirectly nerfing things little by little. Death by a thousand cuts. They have done this with small scale pvp. All their nerfs and changes over the years have put solo/small scale in the gutter. But they've also done it with stam sorc by changing the few things we utilize and never buffing the class.. Instead of buffing classes that need it they choose nerf other classes and abilities. This change will just be another strike against a class with very little at its disposal, and an ability that is already extremely hard to use in the current state of this game.

RouDeR

They need to add the stun back to all of the uppercut morphes....
The skill is so freaking unreliable, this is why the spin 2 win meta is enforced, or 1hnd shield rev bash spammers

Chilly-McFreeze

RouDeR wrote: »

They need to add the stun back to all of the uppercut morphes....
The skill is so freaking unreliable, this is why the spin 2 win meta is enforced, or 1hnd shield rev bash spammers

And why should I use Dizzy then?

Drako_Ei

Who takes these desitions?

cpuScientist

Honestly out all those channel cast time abilities to .6 just like flurry. Easy to avoid but not as much. Makes it just feel better to use and weave.

Sheuib

eso_lags wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?

In certain situations? Its every situation except one, when both you and your enemy are standing still. That is not something that happens often.

So what, if i CC someone, and they dont have the stam to break free, then i shouldn't be able to have the extra damage? Because of that rare situation? Plus its the other players fault for not having the sustain to CC break, because most of the time people will not just sit in the CC..

There are a few problems overall that are highlighted with this nerf. Zos is out of touch with the game and how different certain abilities are. Blanket changes to try to get balance is not a good idea. Not all skills are equal and not all classes are equal. And performance plays a massive role in how this skill works, so not all platforms and play styles (pvp vs pve) are equal. Some suffer more from zos' terrible game performance (like console and pvp)..

Zos has a problem with indirectly nerfing things little by little. Death by a thousand cuts. They have done this with small scale pvp. All their nerfs and changes over the years have put solo/small scale in the gutter. But they've also done it with stam sorc by changing the few things we utilize and never buffing the class.. Instead of buffing classes that need it they choose nerf other classes and abilities. This change will just be another strike against a class with very little at its disposal, and an ability that is already extremely hard to use in the current state of this game.

So if it’s the other person’s fault for not having the sustain to break free then it’s equally your fault for not being able to land the ability.

Chilly-McFreeze

Sheuib wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?

In certain situations? Its every situation except one, when both you and your enemy are standing still. That is not something that happens often.

So what, if i CC someone, and they dont have the stam to break free, then i shouldn't be able to have the extra damage? Because of that rare situation? Plus its the other players fault for not having the sustain to CC break, because most of the time people will not just sit in the CC..

There are a few problems overall that are highlighted with this nerf. Zos is out of touch with the game and how different certain abilities are. Blanket changes to try to get balance is not a good idea. Not all skills are equal and not all classes are equal. And performance plays a massive role in how this skill works, so not all platforms and play styles (pvp vs pve) are equal. Some suffer more from zos' terrible game performance (like console and pvp)..

Zos has a problem with indirectly nerfing things little by little. Death by a thousand cuts. They have done this with small scale pvp. All their nerfs and changes over the years have put solo/small scale in the gutter. But they've also done it with stam sorc by changing the few things we utilize and never buffing the class.. Instead of buffing classes that need it they choose nerf other classes and abilities. This change will just be another strike against a class with very little at its disposal, and an ability that is already extremely hard to use in the current state of this game.

So if it’s the other person’s fault for not having the sustain to break free then it’s equally your fault for not being able to land the ability.

If it's equally "difficult" for you to break free from a stun and to land Dizzy on a competent opponent I have bad news for you.

Ace_SiN

Sheuib wrote: »

I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?

There's no other melee ability that suffers the same design flaws as Dizzy Swing. Besides, nobody is asking for a "damage increase". We're asking for the 14% that they took away to be returned because the ms "buff" means absolutely nothing for the playstyle. You won't see 2H dizzy builds in PvE and dps means nothing in PvP and more so with this skill. Also, the last thing you want is for someone to get CC immunity before you have time to line up your burst, so I'm not understanding your last point.

Kolzki

It seems like a down side of the standardised approach to skill balance.

According to zos’ new balance rules the damage should be reduced like other cast time skills. But in practice the skill is rarely ever spammed in pvp and doesn’t fit into any viable pve rotation. The result is a nerf for the one thing that the skill is good at - pvp burst combos.

eso_lags

Sheuib wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

Sheuib wrote: »

I disagree with this argument. You shouldn’t get extra damage just because the ability is hard to land in certain situations. If you have someone stuck in CC it is easy to land and you want extra damage for that? Additionally, this problem exists for all melee abilities with a cast time. Should all those abilities get a damage increase?

In certain situations? Its every situation except one, when both you and your enemy are standing still. That is not something that happens often.

So what, if i CC someone, and they dont have the stam to break free, then i shouldn't be able to have the extra damage? Because of that rare situation? Plus its the other players fault for not having the sustain to CC break, because most of the time people will not just sit in the CC..

There are a few problems overall that are highlighted with this nerf. Zos is out of touch with the game and how different certain abilities are. Blanket changes to try to get balance is not a good idea. Not all skills are equal and not all classes are equal. And performance plays a massive role in how this skill works, so not all platforms and play styles (pvp vs pve) are equal. Some suffer more from zos' terrible game performance (like console and pvp)..

Zos has a problem with indirectly nerfing things little by little. Death by a thousand cuts. They have done this with small scale pvp. All their nerfs and changes over the years have put solo/small scale in the gutter. But they've also done it with stam sorc by changing the few things we utilize and never buffing the class.. Instead of buffing classes that need it they choose nerf other classes and abilities. This change will just be another strike against a class with very little at its disposal, and an ability that is already extremely hard to use in the current state of this game.

So if it’s the other person’s fault for not having the sustain to break free then it’s equally your fault for not being able to land the ability.

lol no thats not the same thing. It scares me that the devs might think llike you do. If you cannot sustain it is a flaw iin your build. Thats not the same as an ability canceling itself when people move, thats the design of the ability its nothing to do with me. Its a *** design but the only thing some of us have, and reducing the damage makes it works.

Anti_Virus

If you pay close attention, Zos knows cast time melee skills suck so the new artifact weapon ‘volundrung’ is a 2h weapon with an instant cast single target spammable ability. Look it up.

eso_lags

Anti_Virus wrote: »

If you pay close attention, Zos knows cast time melee skills suck so the new artifact weapon ‘volundrung’ is a 2h weapon with an instant cast single target spammable ability. Look it up.

greeeeeeeeeeeeeat

cpuScientist

I wish it was .6 seconds personally heck even instant. But I understand people like way it is on live. The damage frankly sucks however now. It's the highest risk playstyle and is being nerfed for no good reason.

evoniee

how about give the skill major expedition for 1 sec while the player start channeling.

maybe it is impossible for zos ronmake due to they never actually tried it since people keep whining about the usability of the skill is very low but they not change anything.

ilcavallo

eso_lags wrote: »

I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.

The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.

Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..

Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.

Post global cooldown

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471538/stam-sorcs-seriously-need-some-changes#latest

Masel wrote: »

Oh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?


We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.

I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.


But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.

eso_lags

ilcavallo wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.

The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.

Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..

Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.

Post global cooldown

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471538/stam-sorcs-seriously-need-some-changes#latest

Masel wrote: »

Oh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?


We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.

I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.


But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.

Not sure why you linked this but im assuming this is a class rep? Either way its good to know they are telling them stam sorc needs attention. I dont blame thee class reps but who is the dedicated stam sorc class rep?

And regardless it is a nerf. I dont care if you can light attack faster or whatever, its not reliable in pvp. Certainly not with 2 competent players moving around, and certainly not with the current game performance. It is 100% a nerf.

Nerftheforums

Nothing wrong here, they just killed another skill. The fact that it became totally useless and that it relegated 2h to become a back bar weapon type only on the majority of classes is definitely not an issue.
/sarcasm

Masel

eso_lags wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.

The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.

Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..

Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.

Post global cooldown

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471538/stam-sorcs-seriously-need-some-changes#latest

Masel wrote: »

Oh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?


We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.

I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.


But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.

Not sure why you linked this but im assuming this is a class rep? Either way its good to know they are telling them stam sorc needs attention. I dont blame thee class reps but who is the dedicated stam sorc class rep?

And regardless it is a nerf. I dont care if you can light attack faster or whatever, its not reliable in pvp. Certainly not with 2 competent players moving around, and certainly not with the current game performance. It is 100% a nerf.

The fact that the skill isnt reliable at all is the problem here, not the 14% damage reduction. So if anything, the skill needs improvement to hit enemies more often. I personally stopped using it quickly because you often waste resources on casting it (enemies leve the range for a millisecond and it cancels itself for example). So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.

HowlKimchi

Masel wrote: »

So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.

I think this is better:

Now that the damage IS nerfed, we should strive to make it more reliable.

Elwendryll

Masel wrote: »

The fact that the skill isnt reliable at all is the problem here, not the 14% damage reduction. So if anything, the skill needs improvement to hit enemies more often. I personally stopped using it quickly because you often waste resources on casting it (enemies leve the range for a millisecond and it cancels itself for example). So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.

I genuinely wonder what the 200 ms reduction is supposed to do.

I use Wrecking Blow in PVE. So, does this mean now I can use light attacks 200ms sooner each time, or does this mean I can cast an other Wrecking Blow 200 ms faster?

Because in pve I don't have any issue landing it, it's fine as a spammable, the timing for weaving is quite tricky I would say, but that's it. On PTS I don't see the benefits of this 200 ms reduction, I don't see how it should benefit me in my rotation. Maybe that's the lag, maybe I just don't know what I should be looking for when comparing with live, but right now, in one minute, I have the same number of casts on live and PTS. And I use as many light attacks. So, my dps is just lower.

So, can you enlighten me on this 200 "post global" cooldown? I'm not quite sure I understand what it really is.

eso_lags

Masel wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

eso_lags wrote: »

I really think this is a terrible idea for a couple reasons. First up is that I am a stam sorc main and this is going to be another indirect nerf to one of the very few playstyles stam sorc has. Stam sorc is in need of some buffs that seem to never come, especially a real damage skill. In fact we seem to get indirectly nerfed more often than not. Using uppercut in rapid succession is not possible, most of the time. Player movement cancels this ability most of the time. And since we have no class spam-able uppercut is what we have on a 2h build.

The second is pretty similar to what i just wrote. You cannot use this ability, reliably, in rapid succession like you can with something like snipe. You cannot.There is no 6% damage increase. Just a 14% damage nerf. The abilities are as different as night and day, except for the cast time. And testing in duels i got the same results as I thought i would. You cannot reliably spam it, on certain classes like stam sorc you have no reliable ability to spam with it, and a 14% damage loss is huge.

Please for once can we try to just give the ability its tiny little buff and not nerf it? Maybe throw it on the PTS with the post global removed but the damage the same? It is a mistake..

Uppercut: Reduced the damage dealt from this ability and its morphs by 14% to make up for the removal of the post global noted above. Note this will result in a 6% overall DPS increase when used in quick succession.

Post global cooldown

Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities. This was done to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage. We also made some adjustments to the cast times and power levels of specific abilities, which will be called out on a per case basis in further notes.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_GregoryV @ZOS_RichLambert

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471538/stam-sorcs-seriously-need-some-changes#latest

Masel wrote: »

Oh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?


We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.

I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.


But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.

Not sure why you linked this but im assuming this is a class rep? Either way its good to know they are telling them stam sorc needs attention. I dont blame thee class reps but who is the dedicated stam sorc class rep?

And regardless it is a nerf. I dont care if you can light attack faster or whatever, its not reliable in pvp. Certainly not with 2 competent players moving around, and certainly not with the current game performance. It is 100% a nerf.

The fact that the skill isnt reliable at all is the problem here, not the 14% damage reduction. So if anything, the skill needs improvement to hit enemies more often. I personally stopped using it quickly because you often waste resources on casting it (enemies leve the range for a millisecond and it cancels itself for example). So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.

I mean thats one way to put it, sure, but theres no need to nerf something that is already in a bad spot. And for my stam sorc, with no spammable, its all i can use on a 2h build. But this is what zos does, they leave things bad or broken for long periods of time, things that clearly need attention. And this is why I have no faith that it will get improved anytime soon.

But I 100% agree that it would be better if they fixed the skill and made it more reliable. The thing is that doesn't help my pvp stam sorc, on consle, at all, in elsweyr. I will just be worse off next update for no reason. Even if they do make the ability better console pvp performance is an absolute abomination and using dswing is much, much, worse than abilities like snipe, jabs, aoes, or surprise attack.. Normally dswing, in vivec on xbox, has a 3+ second cast time. Ridiculous. And i think we can all agree performance is not getting better anytime soon.

To sum this up simply, why nerf a bad ability? If they want to fix it first, so you can spam it, and then nerf the damage after, then awesome. But doing it backwards is just insane. Why nerf it when you cannot reliably spam it now? To keep it in line with a set of rules they have made but break whenever they see fit? It just makes no sense. Maybe this should be a rule breaker until it works a bit better.

Durham

Its does not matter AOE out performs Single target currently mainly because of the lag. There are a host of abilities that simply do not work in heavy lag compared to others. It was super nice saturday night taking my group of 8 to Shore to PVP with no lag.

Wreaking blow is heavily affected by lag. Lowering the damage of an ability that almost cant be used on Vevic from 7pm to 11pm . Templar Jabs is another ability that suffers greatly from lag. Sometime you cant even switch bars. Until there is a drive to fix the lag in PVP Wrecking Blow will remained as it is currently "BROKE".

Masel

Elwendryll wrote: »

Masel wrote: »

The fact that the skill isnt reliable at all is the problem here, not the 14% damage reduction. So if anything, the skill needs improvement to hit enemies more often. I personally stopped using it quickly because you often waste resources on casting it (enemies leve the range for a millisecond and it cancels itself for example). So instead of changing the damage, I think we should strive to make it more reliable so you can actually hit it more than once.

I genuinely wonder what the 200 ms reduction is supposed to do.

I use Wrecking Blow in PVE. So, does this mean now I can use light attacks 200ms sooner each time, or does this mean I can cast an other Wrecking Blow 200 ms faster?

Because in pve I don't have any issue landing it, it's fine as a spammable, the timing for weaving is quite tricky I would say, but that's it. On PTS I don't see the benefits of this 200 ms reduction, I don't see how it should benefit me in my rotation. Maybe that's the lag, maybe I just don't know what I should be looking for when comparing with live, but right now, in one minute, I have the same number of casts on live and PTS. And I use as many light attacks. So, my dps is just lower.

So, can you enlighten me on this 200 "post global" cooldown? I'm not quite sure I understand what it really is.

All cast time skills had a 0.2s window after them where you simply couldnt do anything. So anything you did afterwards started with a 0.2s delay. Now that window is gone, so you can fire a light attack or other skill immediately after WB is over for example. That is why it was reduced by 14% in damage, but increased by 16.6% in pace cause you can use it within 1s windows instead os 1.2s windows.

It was there for visual reasons so your character could finish the animation of the skill (or at least partially could). Beam skills retained a 0.1s window afterwards because otherwise it'd look really weird.

Blinkin8r

Seems like a decent change to me. No need to tag everyone at Zos.

Chilly-McFreeze

Blinkin8r wrote: »

Seems like a decent change to me. No need to tag everyone at Zos.

Maybe from a PvE perspective.

Elwendryll

Masel wrote: »

[...] Now that window is gone, so you can fire a light attack or other skill immediately after WB is over for example. That is why it was reduced by 14% in damage, but increased by 16.6% in pace cause you can use it within 1s windows instead os 1.2s windows.

It was there for visual reasons so your character could finish the animation of the skill (or at least partially could). Beam skills retained a 0.1s window afterwards because otherwise it'd look really weird.

Ok, I get that. Thanks. But, right now, it looks like it doesn't work with itself, as you may have seen on this thread : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/471927/removed-the-200ms-post-global-cooldown-from-cast-time-abilities#latest

I'm trying to figure out if this ability is working properly right now. On both the live and PTS server, I can hit 50 Wrecking Blow in 60 seconds. As if there were an effective channel time of 1.2 seconds whereas on PTS I "should" be able to hit 60 times as the extra 0.2 seconds are removed.