Stam sorcs seriously need some changes

DoonerSeraph · April 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

For me, stamsorc identity lies within the synergy between all those skills you mentioned, and that identity is a pretty strong one. Especially in PvP scenarios. In my opinion, only thing I can see stamsorc getting is a physical damage version of overload (wind atronach would be cool tho). Otherwise I don´t think stamsorc need much more. They´re in a good spot and I can lowkey don´t understand why people feel the class needs much more improvements.

I think it's more about being less "subtle" about being a stamsorc, hurricane looks too much like the generic storm, most of the kit is passive or passively slotted, between crit surge (which is shared with magsorc btw) and hurricane there are no active skills that makes you look and say "Oh, stamsorc", counter example to that is StamDK, you see that green claw, you see the green breath, you can identify a StamDK within a second. While sorc must borrow magicka focused skills like Atro or Prey if cheesing spiders.

darkblue5 · April 2019

Like what Gilliam said about Grim Focus providing a mini-game. Stamsorc IMO needs a mini-game especially PVE dps. Something that makes have its own twist on PVE dps. PvP stamsorc kind of has its mini-game of streak->dark deal and minor expedition uptime. Negate into streak also counts? Really needs a feeling of class identity in the way you approach doing damage IMO.

KatySpirit · April 2019

Ah but Sorcerer is magic DPS class, Nightblade is stamina DPS class. And DK is a tank, it doesn't need damage abilities! [/sarcasm]

Honestly at this point they just need to entirely overhaul the original four classes and make them as versatile as their new classes are. Stop with this only changing a few abilities at a time and leaving people in stretches of having no good skills.

It's ridiculous that they don't make stamina and magic morphs for pretty much everything. It's disappointing how many weapon abilities a lot of the class/role combos are forced to rely on, making it boring to play more than one or two stamina DPS for example, and how many class abilities go unused.

My stamsorc is my material harvester right now. Sad

Morgul667 · April 2019

KatySpirit wrote: »

Ah but Sorcerer is magic DPS class, Nightblade is stamina DPS class. And DK is a tank, it doesn't need damage abilities! [/sarcasm]

Honestly at this point they just need to entirely overhaul the original four classes and make them as versatile as their new classes are. Stop with this only changing a few abilities at a time and leaving people in stretches of having no good skills.

It's ridiculous that they don't make stamina and magic morphs for pretty much everything. It's disappointing how many weapon abilities a lot of the class/role combos are forced to rely on, making it boring to play more than one or two stamina DPS for example, and how many class abilities go unused.

My stamsorc is my material harvester right now. Sad

At least it s mobile.... so suitable for harvest xD

Prutton · April 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I can definitely agree on the bolded,
but haven't you forgotten our double slotted passive: Bound Armaments?
And TBF also Atronach, which sadly still does lightning damage.
So it's a bit more than "just Hurricane", but not much. Still generic weapon & guild skills mostly.

And yes, some tank builds use roots and negate and some double bow builds cheese parses with Prey and Spider synergy. But is that really where we should get our designated "classines" from? By cheesing a synergy with a magicka skill that doesn't even do physical dmg, just like stamDKs now can cheese their stats with Molten Whip? That's not good class design, if you ask me.

The main reason to slot Bound Armament is to get access to Daedric Protection, otherwise people wouldn't even spend skill points in it.

Qbiken wrote: »

For me, stamsorc identity lies within the synergy between all those skills you mentioned, and that identity is a pretty strong one. Especially in PvP scenarios. In my opinion, only thing I can see stamsorc getting is a physical damage version of overload (wind atronach would be cool tho). Otherwise I don´t think stamsorc need much more. They´re in a good spot and I can lowkey don´t understand why people feel the class needs much more improvements.

That only holds for PVP. However, can you tell one stamina class that is worse at PVP than sorcerer in the hands of equally skilled players?

I would want to see how much people would cry if they made Jabs, Surprise Attack and Cutting Dive deal the same damage as weapon skills. Then they would start talking about identity.

Dracheimflug · April 2019

Nerftheforums wrote: »

What's a stamsorc?
Is that magicka sorc kind of builds used to gather materials quicker?

This.... this question.

I seriously do not understand what all these stam-casters are. Is this some weird version of the Elder Scrolls universe where there are psychic/pseudo-science based powers in addition to magic based powers?

Stamina for physical skills makes some sense since they are using actual conventional physics, but raising the dead or tossing energy around just by 'maximum effort?' Sounds like the delusions of a bunch of LARPS players....

Thraben · April 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

For me, stamsorc identity lies within the synergy between all those skills you mentioned, and that identity is a pretty strong one. Especially in PvP scenarios. In my opinion, only thing I can see stamsorc getting is a physical damage version of overload (wind atronach would be cool tho). Otherwise I don´t think stamsorc need much more. They´re in a good spot and I can lowkey don´t understand why people feel the class needs much more improvements.

When you were rather new, THIS was my personal Sotha StamSorc build for groups between 3 and 12.

See a difference?

It was not OP, it didn´t harm PvE DPS or PvP balance in any way, but it rewarded theorycrafting, and offered a lot of flexibility, utility and choices. And so did other StamSorc builds. And what is left of it, one year later?

A streaking weapon line, hope- and fearful that the next weapon skill homogenization patch won´t wipe out the entire playstyle.

Defilted · April 2019

Stam sorc does need much of a change. I mainly play a stam sorc in PVP and it is an effective character to play solo or grouped.

One class stam spammable may be all that is needed.

Someone mentioned an Overload change. I dont think that would resolve the wants of most people though a stam morph of Overload would be interesting.

rafaelcsmaia · April 2019

Dracheimflug wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

What's a stamsorc?
Is that magicka sorc kind of builds used to gather materials quicker?

This.... this question.

I seriously do not understand what all these stam-casters are. Is this some weird version of the Elder Scrolls universe where there are psychic/pseudo-science based powers in addition to magic based powers?

Stamina for physical skills makes some sense since they are using actual conventional physics, but raising the dead or tossing energy around just by 'maximum effort?' Sounds like the delusions of a bunch of LARPS players....

Ever played skyrim or other TES games with conjuration? Bound weapons ring any bells? There are physical focused mages in TES, its just how it is. ZOS just decided that conjuring weapons is no fun, its nicer to have windy skills and a crapton of passives

cpuScientist · May 2019

Thus is the skill audit AUDIT SOME SKILLS for the stamSorc c'mon they feel so just boring. People flocked too and loved sta.Blade for the higher DPS and interesting playstyle. Just add something to stamSorc give it some gumption. It really needs some fresh air in the class.

Everytime a weapon skill is nerfed or changed it leaves StamSorc terrified cause that's all they have. Other classes can adapt so much easier as they have in class kit to do something about it at least...

cpuScientist · May 2019

rafaelcsmaia wrote: »

Dracheimflug wrote: »

Nerftheforums wrote: »

What's a stamsorc?
Is that magicka sorc kind of builds used to gather materials quicker?

This.... this question.

I seriously do not understand what all these stam-casters are. Is this some weird version of the Elder Scrolls universe where there are psychic/pseudo-science based powers in addition to magic based powers?

Stamina for physical skills makes some sense since they are using actual conventional physics, but raising the dead or tossing energy around just by 'maximum effort?' Sounds like the delusions of a bunch of LARPS players....

Ever played skyrim or other TES games with conjuration? Bound weapons ring any bells? There are physical focused mages in TES, its just how it is. ZOS just decided that conjuring weapons is no fun, its nicer to have windy skills and a crapton of passives

Yeah honestly hurricane should be IMHO a whirl of summoned daggers spinning around then grow to 1h swords then greatsword at max range LoL! But windy city ain't that bad either.

Vermethys · May 2019

I only play a StamSorc in PvP, and probably the only changes I'd love to see are a cheaper Critical Surge (like Warden's Green Lotus cost) and a proper way to make use of the Daedric Protection passive -- hardly anyone has space for Bound Armaments or Storm Atronach in PvP. Stamina versions of Curse (like a wind curse of sorts) and Crystal Fragments would be amazing to have, but I doubt they'd happen any time soon.

psychotic13 · May 2019

Stamsorc is my main, im ok using weapon skills but we need 1 or 2 tweaks.

Stamina curse would be ideal, but id be happy with any kind of decent debuff tbh minor defile would be nice. Not bothered about a stam ult cause lets be real, dawnbreaker will still be better.

Daedric summoning passive that gives regen for having a daedric ability slotted needs to be reworked. Should just give the regen passively as only skill you can even really use is armaments as a stamsorc. Forces me to run atro backbar for sustain.

Put the major resolve/ward on bound armaments so the active skill is actually useful, then give a different buff/debuff on hurricane.

PvP point of view.

Onefrkncrzypope · May 2019

Never mind anything I said. Stam Sorc DPS is fine. They just need a toy from the Sorc lines now.

BuddyAces · May 2019

If you think about it, hurricane is just odd. Here you have a kick ass skill that's class unique.......and that's it. Go load up on generic weapon skills now (that every other class uses too) and maybe a passive slotted ability.

Want to see real class homogenization? Look at stam sorc. Can't get much more bare bones than us. We're one "fix" away from using nothing but all pure dw skills only. 2h just as bad.

Prutton · May 2019

If stamsorcs complain too much, ZOS will remove heal from Critical Surge and make bosses immune to Hurricane damage.

Schattenfluegel · May 2019

The only thing, what a stamsorc need, is sustain. Nothing more or less, and not in form of a dark deal change. Otherwise Dark Deal becomes OP in PVP.

I dont care about an identidy, like other players do. The Sorcskills synergizes very well on live. Ok it will look nice, but it doesnt impact the way of playing a stamsorc.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2019

Schattenfluegel wrote: »

The only thing, what a stamsorc need, is sustain. Nothing more or less, and not in form of a dark deal change. Otherwise Dark Deal becomes OP in PVP.

I dont care about an identidy, like other players do. The Sorcskills synergizes very well on live. Ok it will look nice, but it doesnt impact the way of playing a stamsorc.

How does a class damage skill not impact the way we play a class in pvp? If you're bored, go to PTS and try making a "hybrid" stam sorc that can use Curse or Frags along it's usual weapon stuff. You'll definitely notice a difference in how you can play.

PvE is another topic, the Meta-or-Bust boundaries are really tight there.
But on the other hand: What sense does it make to give stamsorcs a class skill when it would be overshadowed by generic skills anyway?

bigelle.x3_ESO · May 2019

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

There are plenty of unused sorc skills which could be turned into some nice stamina ability:
- Crystal Blast
- Daedric Tomb
- Overload can be improved if major rework is done, and this could help stamsorcs a loooot. Current Overload is garbage.
- Damn, even bound armaments need to be reworked. Don't get me wrong, they are good, but they don't add anything to help keep class identity. It's just a passive bonus with no active component (like really, is anyone using the active component of BA?)
- an unpopular idea but certain pet morphs are nice adepts to be a stamina tool:
Summon Twilight Tormentor
Summon: Clanfear
Summon: Charged Storm Attronach

Do not give them ideas for a stam pet morph. Say no to AI.

Conjured ward. Make it a sword and shield themed skill. Hardened ward stays the same, empowered ward becomes conjure sword, a melee stam spammable that applies minor fracture.

Or

Mage's fury. Keep endless fury a magic execute, mage's wrath becomes mage's strength, a stamina costing melee reverse execute spammable. Deals 10% more damage to targets at 100% health reduced by 2% for every 10% of max hp missing. The bonus reverse execute damage is shock damage in a 4 meter radius.

Or

Crystal shard. Crystal frags remains the same. Crystal blast now a melee spammable. Also hits 5 targets in a 4 meter long cone behind the target for 25% of the damage from the initial hit. Blood magic can proc from this once every 15 seconds.

Qbiken · May 2019

I would like to see Bound Arnaments getting a small rework. Make it a toggle that doesn´t need to be double barred. Activate it and you´ll benefit from the bonuses from the skill on both of your bars. You still only get the daedric protection passive on the bar you´ve it on, but the max stamina and light attack damage carries over to both bars.

GeorgeBlack · May 2019

Imagine speedsorc with Crystal Frags and Curse. As if SnB does not provide them with enough tools, or master DW doesnt help. 2h is still useful, their speed helps them complete the channeling and hurricane masks it.
Yep. Stamsorc needs buffing.

BuddyAces · May 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Imagine speedsorc with Crystal Frags and Curse. As if SnB does not provide them with enough tools, or master DW doesnt help. 2h is still useful, their speed helps them complete the channeling and hurricane masks it.
Yep. Stamsorc needs buffing.

There's something wrong with game mechanics if your argument lies with the fact that a class has too much going for them if they slot a SWORD and SHIELD over REAL weapon skill lines that are made for FIGHTING.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2019

BuddyAces wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Imagine speedsorc with Crystal Frags and Curse. As if SnB does not provide them with enough tools, or master DW doesnt help. 2h is still useful, their speed helps them complete the channeling and hurricane masks it.
Yep. Stamsorc needs buffing.

There's something wrong with game mechanics if your argument lies with the fact that a class has too much going for them if they slot a SWORD and SHIELD over REAL weapon skill lines that are made for FIGHTING.

Don't worry, he strolls in every sorc thread an spreads his quesitonable knowledge about that class. If I remember correctly he said in another thread that he mains a stam DK and been gone for a while.

E: before some mod points finger again for pointing fingers something to contribute to the topic.

George, you also said in another thread that his sDK feels like a SnB Knight, yet there is no problem in stamsorc using SnB. Strange. And "speed sorc" isn't really a thing anymore. With the gutting of speed pots and the shortening of snare immunity it's costly and annoying to stay at speed. You may have noticed that the Steed Mundus now grants you just that 10% movement speed like Hurricane and that everyone can slot swift jewelry (even tho they were nerfed a bit). + your stamDk can fill gaps those weapon lines leave far better than Hurricane ever could.

Qbiken · May 2019

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Imagine speedsorc with Crystal Frags and Curse. As if SnB does not provide them with enough tools, or master DW doesnt help. 2h is still useful, their speed helps them complete the channeling and hurricane masks it.
Yep. Stamsorc needs buffing.

There's something wrong with game mechanics if your argument lies with the fact that a class has too much going for them if they slot a SWORD and SHIELD over REAL weapon skill lines that are made for FIGHTING.

Don't worry, he strolls in every sorc thread an spreads his quesitonable knowledge about that class. If I remember correctly he said in another thread that he mains a stam DK and been gone for a while.

E: before some mod points finger again for pointing fingers something to contribute to the topic.

George, you also said in another thread that his sDK feels like a SnB Knight, yet there is no problem in stamsorc using SnB. Strange. And "speed sorc" isn't really a thing anymore. With the gutting of speed pots and the shortening of snare immunity it's costly and annoying to stay at speed. You may have noticed that the Steed Mundus now grants you just that 10% movement speed like Hurricane and that everyone can slot swift jewelry (even tho they were nerfed a bit). + your stamDk can fill gaps those weapon lines leave far better than Hurricane ever could.

High mobility stamsorc is definitely a thing. For no-CP I run:
5 Ranger´s Gait
5 Prisoner (SnB backbar)
Master Dualwield
Trollking
Steed Mundus (no swift jewellery)
Redguard

With this setup I don´t even need to run a snare removal tool due to how good mobility is. The strength of stamsorc lies within high mobility and strong selfheals through the combo of hurricane and critsurge. Only downside with this build is that it´s a bit squishy and doesn´t fair well in 1v1, otherwise it´s one of the funniest and best stamsorc builds I´ve used.

And I don´t see the problem with certain classes using weapon skillines as their main damage tools. Not all classes need spammable in their class toolkit.

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2019

Qbiken wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

BuddyAces wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Imagine speedsorc with Crystal Frags and Curse. As if SnB does not provide them with enough tools, or master DW doesnt help. 2h is still useful, their speed helps them complete the channeling and hurricane masks it.
Yep. Stamsorc needs buffing.

There's something wrong with game mechanics if your argument lies with the fact that a class has too much going for them if they slot a SWORD and SHIELD over REAL weapon skill lines that are made for FIGHTING.

Don't worry, he strolls in every sorc thread an spreads his quesitonable knowledge about that class. If I remember correctly he said in another thread that he mains a stam DK and been gone for a while.

E: before some mod points finger again for pointing fingers something to contribute to the topic.

George, you also said in another thread that his sDK feels like a SnB Knight, yet there is no problem in stamsorc using SnB. Strange. And "speed sorc" isn't really a thing anymore. With the gutting of speed pots and the shortening of snare immunity it's costly and annoying to stay at speed. You may have noticed that the Steed Mundus now grants you just that 10% movement speed like Hurricane and that everyone can slot swift jewelry (even tho they were nerfed a bit). + your stamDk can fill gaps those weapon lines leave far better than Hurricane ever could.

High mobility stamsorc is definitely a thing. For no-CP I run:
5 Ranger´s Gait
5 Prisoner (SnB backbar)
Master Dualwield
Trollking
Steed Mundus (no swift jewellery)
Redguard

With this setup I don´t even need to run a snare removal tool due to how good mobility is. The strength of stamsorc lies within high mobility and strong selfheals through the combo of hurricane and critsurge. Only downside with this build is that it´s a bit squishy and doesn´t fair well in 1v1, otherwise it´s one of the funniest and best stamsorc builds I´ve used.

And I don´t see the problem with certain classes using weapon skillines as their main damage tools. Not all classes need spammable in their class toolkit.

Oh, that "speed sorc isn't really a thing anymore" might came across a bit different than intended. I didn't mean to say you can't build for that but obviously it isn't as easy and strong as in the past. I don't know when he left so I compare it to the all time high after swift introduction where we could have high firepower, survivability and be broken fast. A time before the nerf hammer came down continuously on that type of build. Now the downsides are real, just like on most other builds. So I don't buy the way he pushes to the speedsorc OP corner.

fred4 · May 2019

iCaliban wrote: »

Unpopular opinion, but i think stam sorc has fantastic identity. You have surge for strong self healing via magic while in battle, hurricane to proc it, dark deal for sustain/healing, streak is used quite often. Its a battlemage and fits that identity.

I agree. I think the stamsorc playstyle feels quite unique and I cringe every time someone says that a class or a build "crutches" on a skill, skill line or armor set. Stamina builds all depend on the weapon skill lines more than magicka builds do. I see nothing wrong with that.

Stamsorc arguably offers less build variety than other classes. It seems to me that long-term players merely wish they had some other things to try. On the other hand, I only find Bound Armaments a questionable skill on account of the active component of that skill being weird and useless. The rest are all really strong (PvP) skills, with a lack of delayed burst perhaps being the one problem area.

I also think stamsorcs have received a weird little buff with the removal of the minimum distance from Crit Rush. You can now spam this for a guaranteed heal. If you find ways to make the most of that, you might be on to a new build next patch.

Narvuntien · May 2019

There were threads about what kind of classic D&D classes each ESO class fit into.

PoisonKnight
Assassin
Warrior/Barbarian
Ranger
Disease mancer

and Sorcs... I think they feel very Martial, Solider like. I kind of think it is possible for a classes flavour to be that they use Weapon Skills rather than Class skills. But to do that you have to focus on getting the sorc passives to improve damage from Weapon skills even if that seems strange. It would be possible to make sorcs strong without stam spammable or ultimate but only if the passive skills were more Stamina weapon skill focused than currently.

However I have suggested to give them Storms Fury Ranged Execute to make up for the loss of implosion execute.

ilcavallo · May 2019

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

I know right? lol But let's nerf dizzy and shrouded daggers! Sometimes I wonder if the class reps have only ever played a magsorc

Masel · May 2019

ilcavallo wrote: »

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

I know right? lol But let's nerf dizzy and shrouded daggers! Sometimes I wonder if the class reps have only ever played a magsorc

Oh yeah it was us that told them to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?

We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.

I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.

But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.

ilcavallo · May 2019

Masel wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

GreatWhite wrote: »

Currently there are only a few skills stam sorcs have that are remotely useful:

Bound Armaments
Critical Surge
Dark Deal
Hurricane
Streak

That's it. Only one stam morph in the entire class. It's mobility is great with streak but it lacks a lot of identity that the other classes have because of the fact that there are so few options with regards as to what skills you are have available to use, and the entire class crutches heavily on the weapon skills. It doesn't have a skill that blows up after a few seconds or an execute, just a little DoT that is mostly used as an armour buff. Stam sorcs needing some TLC is especially noticeable now that implosion has been removed from the game, and it's a little disappointing that the class has basically received no love in the 5.0 PTS.

I know right? lol But let's nerf dizzy and shrouded daggers! Sometimes I wonder if the class reps have only ever played a magsorc

Oh yeah ist us that toll then to do so. And dizzying swing was not nerfed, since you can light attack quicker afterwards it received a buff to burst damage too. And how was shrouded nerfed?

We have a dedicated stamsorc pvp player among us, I play stamsorc in pve regularly and if you read our meeting notes ever you'll notice that we've been telling them to give stamsorc love for a year now.

I still wonder how so many players still dont know how the program actually works. We are consultants at best, and we take no decisions whatsoever. We are there to gather feedback from the community and deliver it to them in a concise manner.

But scapegoating us is with an uninformed post is probably easier than reading meeting notes and trying to understand how the program works. Please inform yourself before posting something like this.

Lol