Removed the 200ms post global cooldown from cast time abilities.

kalunte

it might be a good thing on paper but since it appears to have no effect for ppl who actually play to the elder scrolls online, because they are not playing directly, 1m close to the server and have there latency vary from their internet service provider to their computer (sometimes even the weather!); i would personnaly like all cast time ability to be overlooked once again.

if they are too bursty, reduce the cast time along with the damage.
if they provide to much benefit from the buff/debuff they apply, nerf them down (it is already done tho).
if there is any reason to change them, change it.

but please, keep the DPS safe.

it is already a burden to cast a skill because:
-it snares yourself while casting (can be annoying in both pvp and pve)
-you warn your enemies of what you are preparing (particular pvp issue)
-it can be interrupted, exposing yourself without any benefit (both in pve and pvp, moslty in pvp tho)
-if you manage to get interrupted you're also afflicted by the offbalance debuff, adding more to your desapointment of being interrupted

do not negativly impact a somehow skillfull behavior by making such risky a playstyle by making it unefficient even if completed properly.

long things short, return the dmg you nerfed because of the 200ms tweak, at least. Please. for cast time abilities.

Elwendryll

I have yet to see the effect of this in game. How is it supposed to work? I tried spamming the same ability (wrecking blow) during 60 seconds. Same results on live and PTS.

Soo... This global cooldown, when does it take effect. Between a channel ability and a different ability? Between the same channel ability used twice? I need to know. Because right now, I use Wrecking Blow as my spammable, and I didn't see any improvement in speed, but they plan to nerf the damage...

Xogath

Cast times on a melee ability is just awful design anyway.

Remove it, readjust the damage of the ability and make it a reliable spammable for Stamina builds that don't want pigeonholed in to the dual-wield tree. If it MUST keep a slight cast time on any of its iterations, it should be on Dizzying Swing since it apparently hits the target with enough force to knock and stun them.

Seems like a good trade-off for that kind of CC.

For classes without a decent class-based spammable (*COUGH STAMINA DKS COUGH*) it would be very welcome.

e-rwan

Elwendryll wrote: »

I have yet to see the effect of this in game. How is it supposed to work? I tried spamming the same ability (wrecking blow) during 60 seconds. Same results on live and PTS.

Soo... This global cooldown, when does it take effect. Between a channel ability and a different ability? Between the same channel ability used twice? I need to know. Because right now, I use Wrecking Blow as my spammable, and I didn't see any improvement in speed, but they plan to nerf the damage...

many have reported the issue already: if you spam the ability(wrecking blow, snipe, jabs etc... you will spam it faster than on live, it is when weaving that the cast tim remain the same as on live, making the change effectively a nerf.

would be nice to know from dev if it is working as intended or not.

Elwendryll

e-rwan wrote: »

many have reported the issue already: if you spam the ability(wrecking blow, snipe, jabs etc... you will spam it faster than on live, it is when weaving that the cast tim remain the same as on live, making the change effectively a nerf.

would be nice to know from dev if it is working as intended or not.

Except I did not weave.

On Live, while spamming the ability, I mean, just mashing my key for one minute, I get 50 hits for 60.xx active combat time on CMX.

60/1.2 = 50, so it makes perfect sense.
Now, with the reduced cooldown, I should get 60 hits in 60 seconds, 1 per second. But it's not the case. I still have ~1.2 seconds between each hit, with or without weaving.

TriangularChicken

No, the nerf to snipe in PvP was deserved..and in PvE, from what I've seen so far, the DPS will remain the same. They did a good job nerfing that potato skill.

Elwendryll

TriangularChicken wrote: »

No, the nerf to snipe in PvP was deserved..and in PvE, from what I've seen so far, the DPS will remain the same. They did a good job nerfing that potato skill.

I personally don't have any issue with the damage reduction... provided the removal of the 0.2 global cooldown is actually working. And right now, it looks like it's not fully working as intended.

e-rwan

just went to pts to test it again :
uppercut live(≈0,83/s):

uppercut PTS(≈0,83/s):

jabs live(≈3/s or ≈0.98/s):

jabs PTS(≈3,9/s or ≈0,75/s):

snipe live(≈0,79/s):

snipe PTS(≈0,86/s):

weird result, jabs effectively shows the reduced channeling time but not the damage reduction while uppercut and snipe show the opposite...
also something I didn't think about is the hit reduced cast/channeling time will have on sustain. For exemple I couldn't sustain spamming jabs(with same buff and gear) more than 38s on PTS while I had no issue doing so on live.

I did test weaving and did not see much diffence than when spamming it(contrary to what I observed two weeks ago), i'm not perfect at weaving though.

Hyzock

Xogath wrote: »

Cast times on a melee ability is just awful design anyway.

Remove it, readjust the damage of the ability and make it a reliable spammable for Stamina builds that don't want pigeonholed in to the dual-wield tree. If it MUST keep a slight cast time on any of its iterations, it should be on Dizzying Swing since it apparently hits the target with enough force to knock and stun them.

Seems like a good trade-off for that kind of CC.

For classes without a decent class-based spammable (*COUGH STAMINA DKS COUGH*) it would be very welcome.

So you want to remove an entire pvp playstyle (dizzying swing playstyle) just so you can have an instant spammable on 2h? And how is it awful design? The ability would have way less burst if it had no cast time because you wouldn't be able to instantly use another ability after the dizzying swing lands. The ability has its issues of course but the cast time isn't the core of those issues, the cast time is what makes the ability unique and is also what enables it's burst oriented playstyle.

Elwendryll

e-rwan wrote: »

weird result, jabs effectively shows the reduced channeling time but not the damage reduction while uppercut and snipe show the opposite...
also something I didn't think about is the hit reduced cast/channeling time will have on sustain. For exemple I couldn't sustain spamming jabs(with same buff and gear) more than 38s on PTS while I had no issue doing so on live.

I did test weaving and did not see much diffence than when spamming it(contrary to what I observed two weeks ago), i'm not perfect at weaving though.

I'm not exactly sure what part the relatively high ping takes in it for me, but, it's definitly either not working as intended, or we did not understand how it's supposed to work. I understand that it was supposed to be a buff if used as as spammable, and a nerf if used for burst, right now it's just a nerf. Weaving should not have much impact anyway.

Dalsinthus

TriangularChicken wrote: »

No, the nerf to snipe in PvP was deserved..and in PvE, from what I've seen so far, the DPS will remain the same. They did a good job nerfing that potato skill.

I understand the widespread hate for snipe, but this is wrong. Testing has clearly shown that it is a significant damage nerf for pve. @e-wran posted information in this very thread demonstrating this. Others have put up youtube videos will full parses showing several k of dps decrease.

Davadin

prior to 5.0.2, i tested uppercut and it does cuts my weaving time considerably. i posted it... somewhere here... lol

on top of my head, with only LA and uppercut (and full PvP gear), it's between 12k to 14~15k on a 3m dummy.

overall rotation is 20k vs 25k roughly.

i found that i can weave my light attack quite a bit sooner during uppercut's animation compared to live.



on that same day, i also tested that Flurry is a higher DPS spammable compared to Uppercut, which is NOT the case in live...

kalunte

it looks like chaneled abilities like jabs and flurry got buffed by the 200ms tweak but not the casted abilities.

this is something great to notice

@ZOS_GinaBruno (just in case you have time for it)

Davadin

kalunte wrote: »

it looks like chaneled abilities like jabs and flurry got buffed by the 200ms tweak but not the casted abilities.

this is something great to notice

@ZOS_GinaBruno (just in case you have time for it)

remember Flurry got buffed more than just the 200ms cooldown removal. the skill itself got buffed.

kalunte

sure, but i've read on the forum (i can't remember where) that jabs were performing better on pts than on live, without any major buff but 0.1s of cast time and potentially the 200ms tweak.

Elwendryll

I just really hope they are aware of this and that the next patch notes will contain something about it. They just introduced this change so I guess it's higher on their priorities than regular issues.

JinMori

Well for one we probably didn't notice it because of the pts lag, we will see on live

Aerithone

I personally like this change, on pts jesus beam feels smother than on live.

Muzzick

Sweeps feels smoother on my magplar main. Just don't get why certain abilities damage was nerfed and some weren't. Also they should clearly state that snipe was nerfed 25% because they wanted to reduce the damage, not hide behind the reason of the cooldown reduction. Cutting damage 25% would imply that the ability would be 1.33 times faster than before, which it certainly isn't. They should have cut the cost by 25% to keep it proportional as well.

Jowrik

TriangularChicken wrote: »

No, the nerf to snipe in PvP was deserved..and in PvE, from what I've seen so far, the DPS will remain the same. They did a good job nerfing that potato skill.

DPS did NOT remain the same at all in PVE. Just FYI. Barely reaches the same dmg as crushing shock now.

Jowrik

e-rwan wrote: »

just went to pts to test it again :
uppercut live(≈0,83/s):

uppercut PTS(≈0,83/s):

jabs live(≈3/s or ≈0.98/s):

jabs PTS(≈3,9/s or ≈0,75/s):

snipe live(≈0,79/s):

snipe PTS(≈0,86/s):

weird result, jabs effectively shows the reduced channeling time but not the damage reduction while uppercut and snipe show the opposite...
also something I didn't think about is the hit reduced cast/channeling time will have on sustain. For exemple I couldn't sustain spamming jabs(with same buff and gear) more than 38s on PTS while I had no issue doing so on live.

I did test weaving and did not see much diffence than when spamming it(contrary to what I observed two weeks ago), i'm not perfect at weaving though.

Nice work. If you haven't already, please post them in the [MEGATHREAD] Update 22 Official Feedback Threads & Bug Reports

Minno

Hyzock wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

Cast times on a melee ability is just awful design anyway.

Remove it, readjust the damage of the ability and make it a reliable spammable for Stamina builds that don't want pigeonholed in to the dual-wield tree. If it MUST keep a slight cast time on any of its iterations, it should be on Dizzying Swing since it apparently hits the target with enough force to knock and stun them.

Seems like a good trade-off for that kind of CC.

For classes without a decent class-based spammable (*COUGH STAMINA DKS COUGH*) it would be very welcome.

So you want to remove an entire pvp playstyle (dizzying swing playstyle) just so you can have an instant spammable on 2h? And how is it awful design? The ability would have way less burst if it had no cast time because you wouldn't be able to instantly use another ability after the dizzying swing lands. The ability has its issues of course but the cast time isn't the core of those issues, the cast time is what makes the ability unique and is also what enables it's burst oriented playstyle.

And if they wanted a spamable like that, their class's initial dot hits can be used and other instant cast abilities outside the weapon lines. It's still potent. - source pts duels against stamDK mains.

kalunte

there is another patch coming on pts before the release date..

nothing has changed about what this topic highlight.

dont lose faith mates!

Elwendryll

kalunte wrote: »

dont lose faith mates!

I'm kind of... Not really expecting anything...

I mean. Even the trial boss is still bugged.

Altyrann

If the intent is that we can use these abilities every second, the channel or cast time itself needs to be a decent bit below a second to allow for latency and weaving. If you look at flurry, you can comfortably weave that because the channel is 0.6s. I've no idea where the limit lies between 0.6s and 1s, but that seems like something to consider.

Elwendryll

Did anyone test if it is working correctly for all abilities after 5.0.3 (even if there isn't any note about it)?

I'll try again this evening...

kalunte

i didnt yet, but i'm giving it another try right now.

Minno

Elwendryll wrote: »

Did anyone test if it is working correctly for all abilities after 5.0.3 (even if there isn't any note about it)?

I'll try again this evening...

yea someone try and report back. SO far jabs was faster without light attacking than with which is a HUGE oversight.

kalunte

no changes on snipe so far. just a flat 25% dmg nerf. (this time, no note means they didnt touch it^^)

Bladerunner1

Time of day seems to make a difference in bow light attack weaving on PTS. At 1am I saw 1.25 seconds on the combat log when weaving light attacks between Snipe. At 7pm the next day it was back up to 1.35 seconds. No amount of pushing for faster weaving made a difference at 7pm, if I tried speeding up past the visual and audio cues of the bow light attack it was missing entirely.

This doesn't seem to be the case with dual wield light attack weaving.

kalunte

still nothing adressed this week to this change, which is supposed to be an important thing considering 5.0.X elsweyr's release in order "to improve the feeling of using these abilities in rapid succession with other abilities, to allow for a more fluid transition, and less down time between usage." like it's written in the 5.0.0 patchnote.

another concern is about gapcloser's new clunkyness but i havent any hope left. we'll have to play a gimpy game for a few more years >.<

ps: this game is awesome whenever it has been unfinished since release day 1, but once again we are left to only imagine how great it could be, instead of actually enjoying it at 100%.

ps2: if the goal was only to break cast time abilities you simply had to write it down in the patchnote. at least, i would not feel aggrieved.