Oh yeah, I'm waiting for that inevitability.
I think Elsweyr is Update 22. Wheeler started a new sticky about Combat Direction, and it appears next round is going to focus on class active abilities. So unless they make stealth a class ability (and my head would explode then) I'm thinking not Update 22.
Link: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/466792/update-22-combat-direction
That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.
If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)
That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?
Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?
If you actually believe they've got some skill tree in the works, I've got a bridge to sell you.That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.
If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)
That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?
Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?
Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.
That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.
If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)
That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?
Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?
Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.
Razorback174 wrote: »If you actually believe they've got some skill tree in the works, I've got a bridge to sell you.That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.
If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)
That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?
Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?
Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.
I'm sure we'll be seeing that new tree right after they get done implementing spellcrafting...
What's the point of a stealth passive tree, unless it's Bosmer only? I don't care if they bring back Chameleon from Oblivion and players can go 100% undetected 100% of the time. If it's open to all races, then Bosmer remains tied for worst stealthy race, lore remains corrupted, quest dialogues still don't make sense, and it just reinforces that the current dev team just doesn't care about the Elder Scrolls history, or the players' role playing immersion.
It's all about niche 1v1 combat balance, at the expense of every other aspect of the game. And even in that regard, Bosmer has proven to be at the bottom of the barrel, with the highest resource cost to benefit ratio of all racial bonuses.
Razorback174 wrote: »If you actually believe they've got some skill tree in the works, I've got a bridge to sell you.That stealth tree they are/were planning, if it was coming out in Elsweyr I would think it would have been more developed for the Games Day meet up.
If they do come out with the tree, I would think it would be in update 24. (Elsweyr is update 23 I believe.)
That all being said the PTS drops on the 15th I think, so maybe we will see something then?
Edit; As was pointed out below, Elsweyr is update 22, so maybe a stealth tree in 23 then?
Btw, how legit is that tree anyway? From your first messages I gathered that the existence of the tree is just a speculation but on that hypothetical note you talked about what it could look like.
I'm sure we'll be seeing that new tree right after they get done implementing spellcrafting...
Hi--mostly a lurker here because I'm a newbie, currently leveling up my first character, a Bosmer Stamblade. And yes, I created her before all the race passives nonsense, and the change occurred before I was able to try out the old stealth passive. I suppose it was better that way since I didn't really feel the loss, and I learned how far NOT to push things. I agree that the new stealth detection passive is a sad consolation prize in comparison to the old one.
I have one question. Has anyone tried the stealth detection in PVP recently to see if the bug was fixed? I ask because I was playing in Cyrodil a couple days ago, sneaking around near an enemy keep and saw a rival faction player in stealth yet had others pass closer by me without detecting me. So maybe it works now?
If that's the case than at least it has a tiny bit of usefulness.
Personally if we can't have the stealth increase I'd rather have more bow damage.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone. First of all, you aren't wrong. We agree we haven't been communicating as much as we should on this matter (among others) and for that, we apologize. There really is no excuse.
ZOS_RobGarrett wrote: »While we do have a backlog of improvements identified for the game, it’s clear we could do a better job of answering those kinds of inquiries, both for the player community and ourselves.
In time we’ll also want to share more about the vision and strategy that will drive future combat updates.
"Ratzkifal wrote: »
@azjuwelz Seeing how it's still patch 4.3.9 I seriously doubt any bug has been fixed since I tested that. You still get reduced detection radius from medium armor and the direction the player is facing is also important. Without screenshots it's hard to tell what it was in your case.
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Exactly HOW is Bosmer archery improved, oh by the way? Orcs, Dunmer, Reguards, and Imperials have more improvements to archery than Bosmer. So that's another line that needs to be removed. I'd suggest, "Bosmer excel at rolling around in the filth like the disgusting vermin that they are," to better reflect the developers' actual feelings about Bosmers.
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Exactly HOW is Bosmer archery improved, oh by the way? Orcs, Dunmer, Reguards, and Imperials have more improvements to archery than Bosmer. So that's another line that needs to be removed. I'd suggest, "Bosmer excel at rolling around in the filth like the disgusting vermin that they are," to better reflect the developers' actual feelings about Bosmers.
Orcs weren't mentioned in Daggerfall as they were not playable back then, but realistically speaking, bows take a lot of strength to draw. They have a certain draw weight which is directly proportional to your penetration depth and range. Counter to what Holliwood has you believe, being an archer takes a lot of strength meaning Orcs should have a real advantage with long bows over other races."The dusky, fire-eyed Dark Elves of Morrowind are a strong, intelligent, and quick-footed people. They are legendary sorcerors and warriors, with a prowess with sword and bow rivalling that of the Redguards and Wood Elves."
Wood Elves have always been a stealth based race and the main reason to choose these tiny characters is their innate stealth. PVE enemies in this game do not hide, so changing these characters to detect hidden enemies removes an enjoyable and realistic game mechanic and provides no benefit.
I have given feedback regarding the proposed change to this passive here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453572/bosmer-racial-change-that-is-illogical-and-unnecessary/p1
And I have polled the forum with the conclusion that no one uses stealth detection in pve here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/458818/do-you-use-stealth-detect-in-pve/p1
Firstly, Wood Elves have always had a head-start bonus to the stealth attribute for the past 5 Elder Scrolls titles. In 3 of those titles, they had a greater bonus to sneaking than any other race. For 5 years in TESO we have used this passive to great effect in all game modes. It is a valuable passive as evidenced by: the continuation (and even improvement) of stealth for Khajiits; two zone DLCs that benefit from this passive; trial and dungeon mechanics that take advantage of being in stealth; and the number of dismayed replies on your official forums.
In the developer notes it states that “many enemies in Tamriel can’t be bothered sneaking about!” The conclusion to replace it with 3 meter stealth detection is a contradiction because if enemies can’t be bothered to stealth, then we don’t need to detect stealth enemies. There isn’t any pve content available in the game that uses stealth detection. In pvp, 3 meters is actually a negligible amount of stealth detection because of how pvp is currently played. Stealth is used from a distance in order to stack bonuses from the Bow skill line. Stealth in melee range, at the pace of the current pvp climate, requires a skill (Vampire or Nightblade) or a potion. Being able to detect within 3 meters is not enough time to even block before a blow from stealth. “Gankers” will not disappear with the removal of this Wood Elf passive, they will just switch to Khajiit for the crits.
The identity of this race, from the first game, have been stealthy archers and thieves. It needs to remain an innate ability of the smallest race in the game to hide better than the largest. Moving this out of the racial passive and into another skill line is not a solution because a large character, such as a Nord, is realistically not as sneaky as the smallest characters. This change goes against the original vision, the established precedent, in-universe realism, and the lore within the game itself. The point of choosing the smallest character model in the game is that it’s better at hiding.
Regarding your dev note, “Previously this passive was shared between Khajiit and Wood Elf, and didn’t help them feel distinct enough from each other.“ Players expect that the smallest characters are the sneakiest, and the effort to make this minor distinction is not worth the cost of removing the main appeal of choosing Wood Elf. Khajiit and Wood Elf are already distinct enough from each other, in physical design and fighting style.
Please, reconsider this change. Stealthiness is THE identifying attribute to this race. The proposed change to this passive is disruptive and counterintuitive. Wood Elf hiding ability has been an established precedent for all 5 TES games and the past 5 years in this game.
AngelFires333 wrote: »I blame Trump.
Wonder when they're going to update the character select screen with the correct information?
Another interesting thing about that photo is that it also shows how people tend to think of Khajiit vs Bosmer.
Bosmer: cannibalistic theives
Except that's not a given. 258 weapon damage includes the bow. The races that have that, Orc and Dunmer, are also consistently 1 and 2 on the DPS tests susmitds did. Bosmer are barely above 'no racial' for half of the tests, stamplar being the most significant exception.MartiniDaniels wrote: »Given that other races don't have any bonuses related directly to bow (cost reduction is more then compensated by bosmer's recovery), that part of the description is true.
The diversified racial skills of the Wood Elves reflect their woodland affinity. Improved archery, stamina, stamina recovery, stealth, reduced fall damage, and disease resistance make them dangerous foes.
About the bow thing, I am not that upset about it to be honest. Sure, I think we could do better and make Bosmer Archers unrivaled to give them a better identity. Perhaps, give them something to make bow/bow more viable.
But I have no issue with Orcs, Dunmer and Redguard being equal in terms of dps with Bosmer on bows as in Daggerfall Dunmer are described as followsOrcs weren't mentioned in Daggerfall as they were not playable back then, but realistically speaking, bows take a lot of strength to draw. They have a certain draw weight which is directly proportional to your penetration depth and range. Counter to what Holliwood has you believe, being an archer takes a lot of strength meaning Orcs should have a real advantage with long bows over other races."The dusky, fire-eyed Dark Elves of Morrowind are a strong, intelligent, and quick-footed people. They are legendary sorcerors and warriors, with a prowess with sword and bow rivalling that of the Redguards and Wood Elves."
Ideally Bosmer should have a "cheating passive" like Imperial tanks have with their 3% cost reduction to block. Bosmer may not be stronger than Orcs, Nords, Dunmer etc, but they should get something that allows them to keep up. For Imperial tanks you could argue that their discipline and training makes their technique superior even when they lack sturdiness. They are being smart about it. Similarly Bosmer should have a bonus like that to bows in my opinion. Unfortunately we can't give them a 10% cost reduction to bow abilities as ZOS would probably feel that to be too similar to Redguard. I like permanent penetration as it could be explained with them being more accurate and aiming for the weaknesses, which wouldn't be useless on other weapons and I think I heard that penetration gets more effective the higher your crit chance and Bows give crit chance as a passive.
Accordingly my suggestion for a reworked Hunter's Eye would look something like this:
Ideal Hunter:The amount of penetration must obviously be further balanced. I have no idea how much 750 really is, but I felt that 1500 would probably be too much if it was permanently active. The name is obviously subject to change. I was also considering calling it "nimble hunter". An "eye" has nothing to do with dodgeroll movement speed anyway. I do think that nobody would mind this change too much though as stealth reduction is undeniably more universally useful than detection, permanent penetration is more reliable and the dodgeroll gotta go fast stays without shoehorning into those roll builds.
- Reduce the radius in which you can be detected by 3m.
- Gain 750 physical penetration.
- After dodgerolling, increase your movement speed by 10% for 6seconds.
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »So what would the impact be to make Bosmer 3/6/10% faster with attacks and abilities using a bow?
The fact that Zo$ stood up in front of everyone and lied, bothers me. They said at the event they pay attention to the lore, They said on the forums they wanted to preserve and maintain established lore. Then they turn around and gut races lore and immersion that has been in game and established lore for 5 years. I guess one of the requirements for working at Zo$/Bugthesda is to be a chronic liar. Now they are going to gut classes and other passives. They act like this game is still in open Beta. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RobGarrett @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_RichLambert When making bold statements like that you really should back it up and stay in communication with the people playing your game. Listening to only the 1% Class reps/Streamers isn't the best way to go about it. @ZOS_LeamonTuttle as the new Loremaster how can you be ok with them breaking established lore like they did? As new Loremaster you start with them breaking established game lore and not doing anything about it, not a good start. I gave up on the Argo threads our representation on the forums as a race is abysmally low combined with people can't be bothered to sign up for the forums.
You must mention though that in many cases even OP orc is only slightly (2.5k) above "no racial". So it all just shows that those 258 weapon damage is not that big an issue, and also those tests were made in "ideal" conditions so in any variation from ideal, be it mechanics, stun, moving between targets and so on, bosmer will be coming forward, since passive recovery in comparison to absorb stamina enchantments of dunmer/orc and proc stamina return of redguard and imperial, passive recovery works always no matter what.Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Except that's not a given. 258 weapon damage includes the bow. The races that have that, Orc and Dunmer, are also consistently 1 and 2 on the DPS tests susmitds did. Bosmer are barely above 'no racial' for half of the tests, stamplar being the most significant exception.