[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread
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Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.
Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.
My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...
1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.
I just want to have an on-demand shield within Class Skills for Magplar that has the Sun Shield glow effect
2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.
I do agree, Stamina is much easier to sustain than before. However, with Templar STILL being the only class to lack Brutality/Sorcery in its toolkit is discouraging. I mentioned changes to somehow force Templar players in to going outside of class skills to get buffs that shouls be otherwise easily obtainable.
3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.
I'm pretty sure the tool tip is per jab not the entire channel, try on an NPC and you will see this, it's also what it states in the description.
Its low dmg in pvp due to battle spirit and resistances and or other buffs/debuffs
At fullbuff 16- 20k is not a bad tool tip if you count all 4 hits, HOWEVER it's almost never that all 4 hits land in pvp there for also cutting the dmg by ALOTEdited by Syiccal on March 28, 2019 8:07PM0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I fully agree that the channel should be shortened and it made into a single target0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Another couple things:
1. Purifying Light - incase it will be done to store only caster damage - to regain its group utility its morph's condition of proc of effect could be equalized with stamina morph, i.e. make healing pool proc immediately upon applying PL, not after 6sec.
2. Jabs - another problem that not directly templar problem but makes templar suffering the most coz his aoe dot closest damage class spammable - targetable pets mitigation.
So, pets get reduction on dots and aoes, which affect our main spammable and also neglect closest damage bonus coz pet users always just use them as shields. This is looking ridiculous:
3. Passives: PvP-wise: with release of info of necro passives - All passives follow same way of wardens - they have universal application into any build of necromancer. Some of them have restrictions but those are restrictions on paper that will be complied with ease anyway. But more importantly:
A. Passives are not taking spot minor buffs and thus can be stacked with buff system on top: Last Gasp - not mimicry Minor Toughness but add flat amount of HP and thus allow to stack both. Curative Curse - not mimicry Minor Mending but add flat 8% of healing done (with restriction that in PvP will allow it to work 100% of time in combat), and thus allow to be stacked healing modifiers or sets.
So, it will show us ZOS vision of keeping passives to have unique identity and not taking spots of current buff system. And in this case Templars is only class that doesn't match this vision because it only class where its passives provide minor buffs instead of moderate bonuses that can be stacked with buffs. That was already problem with release of sets like Indomitable Fury, Naga-Shaman where templar couldn't use those because half of its 5pc bonuses were mimicries by passives and thus we don't fully benefit from wearing such sets (also we cant wear Healer set, kinda irony). So, consider to redone redone Sacred Ground and Spear Wall to provide moderate bonuses instead of buffs and thus not restrict class from using specific gear.
Spear Wall 1/2 could become - gain 4%/8% damage reduction instead of minor protection.
Sacred Ground 1/2 - increase your healing done for 4%/8% instead of minor mending.
Having unique effect to be replaced by buff from buff system could be validated if on top of buff it would provide worthy effect. It more or less validated for Sacred Ground but definitely not for Spear Wall with its short (even shorter than it should) minor buff.
B. Universal resource passives - Undead Conferate - while you have a necromancer summon active, your magicka and stamina recovery is increased by 300. What we see is passive grant equal bonuses that will be 100% utilized by any spec no matter if mana of stamina. Mana build will have passively 300 stam regen, while stamina will have 300 mana regen for magicka dumps.
So with this I have to bring back my request of making Restoring Spirit to be universal passive again:
Currently it doesn't affect magicka build with its stamina bonus that is just reduction of stamina skills, that manaplar barely have access to and so it have no benefit in sustain on of the most important resource.
I asking about change Restoring Spirit to not affect just mana/stamina/ult but work as Alteration set effect or Red Diamond and reduce cost of all abilities for X%. With such effect this passive will retain core utility but also equally benefit both specs and for mana build it will have capability of stamina sustain that currently sustain passive uncapable to provide in favour of Shadow Guard and Warlord CP, that bring problems in noCP.Edited by Cinbri on March 28, 2019 9:10PM6 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Stamplar has been at the mercy of Magplar performance for a very long time. Stamplar has routinely been nerfed through no fault of it's own and will continue to be nerfed through no fault of it's own because it's performance has never been anything more than par.0331
06021 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another couple things:
1. Purifying Light - incase it will be done to store only caster damage - to regain its group utility its morph's condition of proc of effect could be equalized with stamina morph, i.e. make healing pool proc immediately upon applying PL, not after 6sec.
2. Jabs - another problem that not directly templar problem but makes templar suffering the most coz his aoe dot closest damage class spammable - targetable pets mitigation.
So, pets get reduction on dots and aoes, which affect our main spammable and also neglect closest damage bonus coz pet users always just use them as shields. This is looking ridiculous:
3. Passives: PvP-wise: with release of info of necro passives - All passives follow same way of wardens - they have universal application into any build of necromancer. Some of them have restrictions but those are restrictions on paper that will be complied with ease anyway. But more importantly:
A. Passives are not taking spot minor buffs and thus can be stacked with buff system on top: Last Gasp - not mimicry Minor Toughness but add flat amount of HP and thus allow to stack both. Curative Curse - not mimicry Minor Mending but add flat 8% of healing done (with restriction that in PvP will allow it to work 100% of time in combat), and thus allow to be stacked healing modifiers or sets.
So, it will show us ZOS vision of keeping passives to have unique identity and not taking spots of current buff system. And in this case Templars is only class that doesn't match this vision because it only class where its passives provide minor buffs instead of moderate bonuses that can be stacked with buffs. That was already problem with release of sets like Indomitable Fury, Naga-Shaman where templar couldn't use those because half of its 5pc bonuses were mimicries by passives and thus we don't fully benefit from wearing such sets (also we cant wear Healer set, kinda irony). So, consider to redone redone Sacred Ground and Spear Wall to provide moderate bonuses instead of buffs and thus not restrict class from using specific gear.
Spear Wall 1/2 could become - gain 4%/8% damage reduction instead of minor protection.
Sacred Ground 1/2 - increase your healing done for 4%/8% instead of minor mending.
Having unique effect to be replaced by buff from buff system could be validated if on top of buff it would provide worthy effect. It more or less validated for Sacred Ground but definitely not for Spear Wall with its short (even shorter than it should) minor buff.
B. Universal resource passives - Undead Conferate - while you have a necromancer summon active, your magicka and stamina recovery is increased by 300. What we see is passive grant equal bonuses that will be 100% utilized by any spec no matter if mana of stamina. Mana build will have passively 300 stam regen, while stamina will have 300 mana regen for magicka dumps.
So with this I have to bring back my request of making Restoring Spirit to be universal passive again:
Currently it doesn't affect magicka build with its stamina bonus that is just reduction of stamina skills, that manaplar barely have access to and so it have no benefit in sustain on of the most important resource.
I asking about change Restoring Spirit to not affect just mana/stamina/ult but work as Alteration set effect or Red Diamond and reduce cost of all abilities for X%. With such effect this passive will retain core utility but also equally benefit both specs and for mana build it will have capability of stamina sustain that currently sustain passive uncapable to provide in favour of Shadow Guard and Warlord CP, that bring problems in noCP.
agree to this feedback as well.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual3 -
Lughlongarm✭✭✭✭✭Another couple things:
1. Purifying Light - incase it will be done to store only caster damage - to regain its group utility its morph's condition of proc of effect could be equalized with stamina morph, i.e. make healing pool proc immediately upon applying PL, not after 6sec.
2. Jabs - another problem that not directly templar problem but makes templar suffering the most coz his aoe dot closest damage class spammable - targetable pets mitigation.
So, pets get reduction on dots and aoes, which affect our main spammable and also neglect closest damage bonus coz pet users always just use them as shields. This is looking ridiculous:
3. Passives: PvP-wise: with release of info of necro passives - All passives follow same way of wardens - they have universal application into any build of necromancer. Some of them have restrictions but those are restrictions on paper that will be complied with ease anyway. But more importantly:
A. Passives are not taking spot minor buffs and thus can be stacked with buff system on top: Last Gasp - not mimicry Minor Toughness but add flat amount of HP and thus allow to stack both. Curative Curse - not mimicry Minor Mending but add flat 8% of healing done (with restriction that in PvP will allow it to work 100% of time in combat), and thus allow to be stacked healing modifiers or sets.
So, it will show us ZOS vision of keeping passives to have unique identity and not taking spots of current buff system. And in this case Templars is only class that doesn't match this vision because it only class where its passives provide minor buffs instead of moderate bonuses that can be stacked with buffs. That was already problem with release of sets like Indomitable Fury, Naga-Shaman where templar couldn't use those because half of its 5pc bonuses were mimicries by passives and thus we don't fully benefit from wearing such sets (also we cant wear Healer set, kinda irony). So, consider to redone redone Sacred Ground and Spear Wall to provide moderate bonuses instead of buffs and thus not restrict class from using specific gear.
Spear Wall 1/2 could become - gain 4%/8% damage reduction instead of minor protection.
Sacred Ground 1/2 - increase your healing done for 4%/8% instead of minor mending.
Having unique effect to be replaced by buff from buff system could be validated if on top of buff it would provide worthy effect. It more or less validated for Sacred Ground but definitely not for Spear Wall with its short (even shorter than it should) minor buff.
B. Universal resource passives - Undead Conferate - while you have a necromancer summon active, your magicka and stamina recovery is increased by 300. What we see is passive grant equal bonuses that will be 100% utilized by any spec no matter if mana of stamina. Mana build will have passively 300 stam regen, while stamina will have 300 mana regen for magicka dumps.
So with this I have to bring back my request of making Restoring Spirit to be universal passive again:
Currently it doesn't affect magicka build with its stamina bonus that is just reduction of stamina skills, that manaplar barely have access to and so it have no benefit in sustain on of the most important resource.
I asking about change Restoring Spirit to not affect just mana/stamina/ult but work as Alteration set effect or Red Diamond and reduce cost of all abilities for X%. With such effect this passive will retain core utility but also equally benefit both specs and for mana build it will have capability of stamina sustain that currently sustain passive uncapable to provide in favour of Shadow Guard and Warlord CP, that bring problems in noCP.
"All passives follow same way of wardens - they have universal application into any build of necromancer".
Universal passives on Wardens? What are talking about?
You mean the 15% snare reduction passive? You mean the charge like passive that works only with Warden freezing damage spells which they don't have? You mean pathetic resistance passive or the regen passive that required an ally and useless in solo game-play?
Do the WW test, if the class you are checking synergies well with a WW build, you could probably say the class has universal application passives. Guess what? Warden is probably the worst class to WW with.0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Another couple things:
1. Purifying Light - incase it will be done to store only caster damage - to regain its group utility its morph's condition of proc of effect could be equalized with stamina morph, i.e. make healing pool proc immediately upon applying PL, not after 6sec.
2. Jabs - another problem that not directly templar problem but makes templar suffering the most coz his aoe dot closest damage class spammable - targetable pets mitigation.
So, pets get reduction on dots and aoes, which affect our main spammable and also neglect closest damage bonus coz pet users always just use them as shields. This is looking ridiculous:
3. Passives: PvP-wise: with release of info of necro passives - All passives follow same way of wardens - they have universal application into any build of necromancer. Some of them have restrictions but those are restrictions on paper that will be complied with ease anyway. But more importantly:
A. Passives are not taking spot minor buffs and thus can be stacked with buff system on top: Last Gasp - not mimicry Minor Toughness but add flat amount of HP and thus allow to stack both. Curative Curse - not mimicry Minor Mending but add flat 8% of healing done (with restriction that in PvP will allow it to work 100% of time in combat), and thus allow to be stacked healing modifiers or sets.
So, it will show us ZOS vision of keeping passives to have unique identity and not taking spots of current buff system. And in this case Templars is only class that doesn't match this vision because it only class where its passives provide minor buffs instead of moderate bonuses that can be stacked with buffs. That was already problem with release of sets like Indomitable Fury, Naga-Shaman where templar couldn't use those because half of its 5pc bonuses were mimicries by passives and thus we don't fully benefit from wearing such sets (also we cant wear Healer set, kinda irony). So, consider to redone redone Sacred Ground and Spear Wall to provide moderate bonuses instead of buffs and thus not restrict class from using specific gear.
Spear Wall 1/2 could become - gain 4%/8% damage reduction instead of minor protection.
Sacred Ground 1/2 - increase your healing done for 4%/8% instead of minor mending.
Having unique effect to be replaced by buff from buff system could be validated if on top of buff it would provide worthy effect. It more or less validated for Sacred Ground but definitely not for Spear Wall with its short (even shorter than it should) minor buff.
B. Universal resource passives - Undead Conferate - while you have a necromancer summon active, your magicka and stamina recovery is increased by 300. What we see is passive grant equal bonuses that will be 100% utilized by any spec no matter if mana of stamina. Mana build will have passively 300 stam regen, while stamina will have 300 mana regen for magicka dumps.
So with this I have to bring back my request of making Restoring Spirit to be universal passive again:
Currently it doesn't affect magicka build with its stamina bonus that is just reduction of stamina skills, that manaplar barely have access to and so it have no benefit in sustain on of the most important resource.
I asking about change Restoring Spirit to not affect just mana/stamina/ult but work as Alteration set effect or Red Diamond and reduce cost of all abilities for X%. With such effect this passive will retain core utility but also equally benefit both specs and for mana build it will have capability of stamina sustain that currently sustain passive uncapable to provide in favour of Shadow Guard and Warlord CP, that bring problems in noCP.
Thx again great feedback I need to think over^^0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭I'm pretty sure the tool tip is per jab not the entire channel, try on an NPC and you will see this, it's also what it states in the description.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.
Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.
My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...
1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.
I just want to have an on-demand shield within Class Skills for Magplar that has the Sun Shield glow effect
2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.
I do agree, Stamina is much easier to sustain than before. However, with Templar STILL being the only class to lack Brutality/Sorcery in its toolkit is discouraging. I mentioned changes to somehow force Templar players in to going outside of class skills to get buffs that shouls be otherwise easily obtainable.
3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.
Its low dmg in pvp due to battle spirit and resistances and or other buffs/debuffs
At fullbuff 16- 20k is not a bad tool tip if you count all 4 hits, HOWEVER it's almost never that all 4 hits land in pvp there for also cutting the dmg by ALOT
This is incorrect. The Tooltip for Jabs was originally per Jab. However, ZOS has since switched this Tooltip to an inclusive full channel Tooltip - I believe with either Morrowind or Summerset > If someone can confirm @Checkmath @Cinbri.
Jabs does NOT have a 16-20K Tooltip comprehensive of all 4 Jabs. In PVE with a Tooltip of 4500 DMG (Fully self buffed) I can hit on average 1300-1700 damage PER Jab, depending on if it Crits. In PVP The average hit PER Jab is around 500-800 DMG with an overall Channel DMG amount of 1500-1700.0 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭I have to say, I understand this may not be the best thread to post on this but it does directly correlate with Templar feedback...After reviewing (briefly) the new skill lines and passives for the Necromancer class I am even more frustrated with the current state of Templars.
Without going in to great detail, like I usually do...The Necromancer class is basically a better version of the Templar in every way...It's spammable skill is pretty much Sunfire and Morphs, but with a Stamina option. It has its own repentence. Ult is basically a Nova/Incap/and/or Permafrost...
The bottom line is that it is 100% safe to say that the Templar class essentially no longer has a class identity. This is saddening. The Warden was made to be a better Templar. Now the Necromancer is exactly the Templar remastered WITH Warden skills and passives.
Please comment your feedback on this @Checkmath because this is an unacceptable slap in the face to the current Templar identity.3 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I'm pretty sure the tool tip is per jab not the entire channel, try on an NPC and you will see this, it's also what it states in the description.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.
Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.
My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...
1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.
I just want to have an on-demand shield within Class Skills for Magplar that has the Sun Shield glow effect
2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.
I do agree, Stamina is much easier to sustain than before. However, with Templar STILL being the only class to lack Brutality/Sorcery in its toolkit is discouraging. I mentioned changes to somehow force Templar players in to going outside of class skills to get buffs that shouls be otherwise easily obtainable.
3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.
Its low dmg in pvp due to battle spirit and resistances and or other buffs/debuffs
At fullbuff 16- 20k is not a bad tool tip if you count all 4 hits, HOWEVER it's almost never that all 4 hits land in pvp there for also cutting the dmg by ALOT
This is incorrect. The Tooltip for Jabs was originally per Jab. However, ZOS has since switched this Tooltip to an inclusive full channel Tooltip - I believe with either Morrowind or Summerset > If someone can confirm @Checkmath @Cinbri.
Jabs does NOT have a 16-20K Tooltip comprehensive of all 4 Jabs. In PVE with a Tooltip of 4500 DMG (Fully self buffed) I can hit on average 1300-1700 damage PER Jab, depending on if it Crits. In PVP The average hit PER Jab is around 500-800 DMG with an overall Channel DMG amount of 1500-1700.
Then yours my friend is pretty poor, not to be rude, mine hit for 5-6k per hit in pve and 2 to 3k in pvp per jab. But in pvp it's very rare to hit all 4Edited by Syiccal on March 29, 2019 1:32PM1 -
Jabbs_Giggity✭✭✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I'm pretty sure the tool tip is per jab not the entire channel, try on an NPC and you will see this, it's also what it states in the description.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.
Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.
My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...
1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.
I just want to have an on-demand shield within Class Skills for Magplar that has the Sun Shield glow effect
2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.
I do agree, Stamina is much easier to sustain than before. However, with Templar STILL being the only class to lack Brutality/Sorcery in its toolkit is discouraging. I mentioned changes to somehow force Templar players in to going outside of class skills to get buffs that shouls be otherwise easily obtainable.
3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.
Its low dmg in pvp due to battle spirit and resistances and or other buffs/debuffs
At fullbuff 16- 20k is not a bad tool tip if you count all 4 hits, HOWEVER it's almost never that all 4 hits land in pvp there for also cutting the dmg by ALOT
This is incorrect. The Tooltip for Jabs was originally per Jab. However, ZOS has since switched this Tooltip to an inclusive full channel Tooltip - I believe with either Morrowind or Summerset > If someone can confirm @Checkmath @Cinbri.
Jabs does NOT have a 16-20K Tooltip comprehensive of all 4 Jabs. In PVE with a Tooltip of 4500 DMG (Fully self buffed) I can hit on average 1300-1700 damage PER Jab, depending on if it Crits. In PVP The average hit PER Jab is around 500-800 DMG with an overall Channel DMG amount of 1500-1700.
Then yours my friend is pretty poor, not to be rude, mine hit for 5-6k per hit in pve and 2 to 3k in pvp per jab. But in pvp it's very rare to hit all 4
Would you be willing to post a screenshot or video of the damage numbers? 3-6K is about an average Death Recap Tooltip - but this is not per Jab. Although I could be wrong, pretty sure the changes to the Tooltip for Jabs/Sweeps was posted in one of the Patch Notes.1 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Here is a link to one of my fight after returning from 4 month break, I don't have pve clips unfortunately as primarily pvp but when I do stray into pve I hit numbers of 4k plus per hit depending on the NPC
Edited by Syiccal on March 29, 2019 1:59PM0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Don't forget that pvp hits are effected by battle spirit, resistances, dmg reduction sets, players blocking etc.
I'm using in these clips
Skoria
Steadfast hero
BTB/ cyrodiils light
master staff
So not really build for high pvp dps more of a balanced buildEdited by Syiccal on March 29, 2019 2:09PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I'm pretty sure the tool tip is per jab not the entire channel, try on an NPC and you will see this, it's also what it states in the description.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.
Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.
My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...
1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.
I just want to have an on-demand shield within Class Skills for Magplar that has the Sun Shield glow effect
2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.
I do agree, Stamina is much easier to sustain than before. However, with Templar STILL being the only class to lack Brutality/Sorcery in its toolkit is discouraging. I mentioned changes to somehow force Templar players in to going outside of class skills to get buffs that shouls be otherwise easily obtainable.
3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.
Its low dmg in pvp due to battle spirit and resistances and or other buffs/debuffs
At fullbuff 16- 20k is not a bad tool tip if you count all 4 hits, HOWEVER it's almost never that all 4 hits land in pvp there for also cutting the dmg by ALOT
This is incorrect. The Tooltip for Jabs was originally per Jab. However, ZOS has since switched this Tooltip to an inclusive full channel Tooltip - I believe with either Morrowind or Summerset > If someone can confirm @Checkmath @Cinbri.
Jabs does NOT have a 16-20K Tooltip comprehensive of all 4 Jabs. In PVE with a Tooltip of 4500 DMG (Fully self buffed) I can hit on average 1300-1700 damage PER Jab, depending on if it Crits. In PVP The average hit PER Jab is around 500-800 DMG with an overall Channel DMG amount of 1500-1700.
Then yours my friend is pretty poor, not to be rude, mine hit for 5-6k per hit in pve and 2 to 3k in pvp per jab. But in pvp it's very rare to hit all 4
Would you be willing to post a screenshot or video of the damage numbers? 3-6K is about an average Death Recap Tooltip - but this is not per Jab. Although I could be wrong, pretty sure the changes to the Tooltip for Jabs/Sweeps was posted in one of the Patch Notes.
The dmg is per jab but you have 4 hits for that channel. so if your tooltip is 4k, its 4kx4 = 16k 8if you hit all 4. Each hit has its dmg mitigated and each hit can crit.
All dots work this way, regardless of how the tooltip is structured lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Jabs is honestly really good... on my templar I want to use crushing weapon as my spammable because I like how it looks and heals you but...
Jabs has a much higher tooltip, procs burning light, procs minor protection, gives you major savagery, AND splashes damage.2 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saw in another thread that jabs is being brought in line with global cool down next patch. Hype!2 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Saw in another thread that jabs is being brought in line with global cool down next patch. Hype!
Yes, although they’re watching the damage closely and it MIGHT get nerfed. If not that’s a reallt nice little buff especially since we’re heavily affected by shuffle not to mention the new necro passive of 10% dot reduction😛0 -
Syiccal✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saw in another thread that jabs is being brought in line with global cool down next patch. Hype!
Yes, although they’re watching the damage closely and it MIGHT get nerfed. If not that’s a reallt nice little buff especially since we’re heavily affected by shuffle not to mention the new necro passive of 10% dot reduction😛
How will this buff dmg?0 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭Saw in another thread that jabs is being brought in line with global cool down next patch. Hype!
Yes, although they’re watching the damage closely and it MIGHT get nerfed. If not that’s a reallt nice little buff especially since we’re heavily affected by shuffle not to mention the new necro passive of 10% dot reduction😛
Hopefully it's this: "Jabs has been brought in line with the GCD, same damage just shorter animation"0 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I have to say, I understand this may not be the best thread to post on this but it does directly correlate with Templar feedback...After reviewing (briefly) the new skill lines and passives for the Necromancer class I am even more frustrated with the current state of Templars.
Without going in to great detail, like I usually do...The Necromancer class is basically a better version of the Templar in every way...It's spammable skill is pretty much Sunfire and Morphs, but with a Stamina option. It has its own repentence. Ult is basically a Nova/Incap/and/or Permafrost...
The bottom line is that it is 100% safe to say that the Templar class essentially no longer has a class identity. This is saddening. The Warden was made to be a better Templar. Now the Necromancer is exactly the Templar remastered WITH Warden skills and passives.
Please comment your feedback on this @Checkmath because this is an unacceptable slap in the face to the current Templar identity.
We are aware of the situation with the new class, dont worry. yes it is kind of sad to see so many ideas or functions of templars in the necro kit and i hope there will be enough adjustments to bring the class in line with the others without stealing too much identity.4 -
usmcjdking✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The reduction to 1 second is almost pointless. Actually it is pointless. Light attack into jabs will still exceed one second lol. Until you can fit light attack jabs bash into a single GCD the change is borderline meaningless if it still takes up an entire GCD.0331
06021 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭usmcjdking wrote: »The reduction to 1 second is almost pointless. Actually it is pointless. Light attack into jabs will still exceed one second lol. Until you can fit light attack jabs bash into a single GCD the change is borderline meaningless if it still takes up an entire GCD.
I dare say, all spamables should be aimable channels
.
Want major fracture to stay on a surprise attack 15-20k tooltip? great, here's a 1.1 channel and 4 hits to aim lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
StarOfElyon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I just looked at the Necromancer skill line. Their healer line is very Templar-like, indeed. But it looks like they also lack a good self-heal. Unless I missed something, they have what's essentially BoL.0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »I'm pretty sure the tool tip is per jab not the entire channel, try on an NPC and you will see this, it's also what it states in the description.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »
Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.
Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.
My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...
1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.
I just want to have an on-demand shield within Class Skills for Magplar that has the Sun Shield glow effect
2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.
I do agree, Stamina is much easier to sustain than before. However, with Templar STILL being the only class to lack Brutality/Sorcery in its toolkit is discouraging. I mentioned changes to somehow force Templar players in to going outside of class skills to get buffs that shouls be otherwise easily obtainable.
3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.
Its low dmg in pvp due to battle spirit and resistances and or other buffs/debuffs
At fullbuff 16- 20k is not a bad tool tip if you count all 4 hits, HOWEVER it's almost never that all 4 hits land in pvp there for also cutting the dmg by ALOT
This is incorrect. The Tooltip for Jabs was originally per Jab. However, ZOS has since switched this Tooltip to an inclusive full channel Tooltip - I believe with either Morrowind or Summerset > If someone can confirm @Checkmath @Cinbri.
Jabs does NOT have a 16-20K Tooltip comprehensive of all 4 Jabs. In PVE with a Tooltip of 4500 DMG (Fully self buffed) I can hit on average 1300-1700 damage PER Jab, depending on if it Crits. In PVP The average hit PER Jab is around 500-800 DMG with an overall Channel DMG amount of 1500-1700.
Difference with old tooltip and new one is that old was telling us aoe damage and taht closest being 140% of it, so we had to calculate ourselves our single target damage, while in Dragonbones Update it was changed to show actual closest-target damage.1 -
Neoauspex✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Sounds like it would still be a channel, just shortened and damage tweaked so DPS is the same. But Gina was quick to point out that none of these rumored updates were final.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭My feedback on Templar:
I know I'm beating a dead horse, but same thing I've said before on my Templar Tank - they are still lacking in two areas: utility and Self-healing.
I know it's sounds weird to suggest Templars don't have enough healing, but in way of Tank builds, the lack of a health based self heal really hurts them and keeps them from being useful in end-game hard mode main tank roles. This doesn't even count that missing other tools like the buff ungulfing gives a group, etc. But IMO every class should have a decent health based self heal morph of a skill to use for a tanking role, it's a necessity in some dungeons or trials for a main tank and has kept me from using this tank option for particular runs.
I also feel that the out of class substitutions for chain pulling: silver shards and CCs: time stop are not very practical in comparison and also more expensive than classes that have built in options. Maybe every class should not have the exact same pulls and CCs, but they should offer something to make up for it and Templar Tank do not. There are unique things that could be created, or even re-used, like the old blinding flash to stun mobs for a few seconds could be a good alternative to things like fears, talons, encases that other classes have.
I have also seen some talk about changing their shield to magicka based. I think this is a mistake personally. I guess it doesn't matter if we leave one morph as is, but I use Sun Shield on my magplar instead of annulment and it works great - you get the protection buff, it does damage to anything near you and scales up and even if you cast it alone it is still not far off strength wise from the new nerfed versions of magicka based shields. Personally, if they changed the other morph, I'd probably keep using Sun Shield on my magplar and not only for my Tank.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0
https://youtu.be/-YgA_g-taQU
