[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

technohic

Just throwing out feedback as I think of it while playing but, how do we not have major expedition AND no roots? Makes us so easy to kite. On my Stamplar I just thought of it as I was screwing around with the bow AOE root which I think might be major cheese but it really helps land those jabs and its great for flushing out NBs. I mean I know we have weapon options like that where I also have a source of major expedition but it just doesnt make sense looking at a class in isolation.

Minno

technohic wrote: »

Just throwing out feedback as I think of it while playing but, how do we not have major expedition AND no roots? Makes us so easy to kite. On my Stamplar I just thought of it as I was screwing around with the bow AOE root which I think might be major cheese but it really helps land those jabs and its great for flushing out NBs. I mean I know we have weapon options like that where I also have a source of major expedition but it just doesnt make sense looking at a class in isolation.

Immobilze+Stam cost increase poisons operate the same way. Been running 2h/bow after testing other weapons and both of those weapons solve pain points on stamplar. Bow has:
- passive execute on a ranged applied dot that acts like vamps bane.
- dodge roll mobilty synergizes with reducing amount of purges cast and keeping cc off you while increasing your speed. Very versatile. You can proactively dodge roll, but you can't do that with bol on magplar.
- draining shot = Stam total dark. Except it actually CC's and costs nothing lol. I backbar it for when I need someone off me and a heal. Hit pets too with it and snipers at range.
- heavy attack at range for getting Stam back. Also engage at range.
- extra crit chance for extra heals

2h:
- forward momentum. Brutality buff on a self applied hot. It's what degeneration should be lol.
- sword/maul/axe. Pick what feels sexy to you. I went sword/maul because Templar doesn't have minor beserk nor major fracture and those weapons give similar values to those buffs.
- wrecking blow. Even if you have cc immunity on the target, 16-20k tooltip is great to combo in. Unreflected and costs less than javelin.
- heavy attack extra DMG boost. Beefy dawnbreakers and extra resorces coming in.

technohic

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Just throwing out feedback as I think of it while playing but, how do we not have major expedition AND no roots? Makes us so easy to kite. On my Stamplar I just thought of it as I was screwing around with the bow AOE root which I think might be major cheese but it really helps land those jabs and its great for flushing out NBs. I mean I know we have weapon options like that where I also have a source of major expedition but it just doesnt make sense looking at a class in isolation.

Immobilze+Stam cost increase poisons operate the same way. Been running 2h/bow after testing other weapons and both of those weapons solve pain points on stamplar. Bow has:
- passive execute on a ranged applied dot that acts like vamps bane.
- dodge roll mobilty synergizes with reducing amount of purges cast and keeping cc off you while increasing your speed. Very versatile. You can proactively dodge roll, but you can't do that with bol on magplar.
- draining shot = Stam total dark. Except it actually CC's and costs nothing lol. I backbar it for when I need someone off me and a heal. Hit pets too with it and snipers at range.
- heavy attack at range for getting Stam back. Also engage at range.
- extra crit chance for extra heals

2h:
- forward momentum. Brutality buff on a self applied hot. It's what degeneration should be lol.
- sword/maul/axe. Pick what feels sexy to you. I went sword/maul because Templar doesn't have minor beserk nor major fracture and those weapons give similar values to those buffs.
- wrecking blow. Even if you have cc immunity on the target, 16-20k tooltip is great to combo in. Unreflected and costs less than javelin.
- heavy attack extra DMG boost. Beefy dawnbreakers and extra resorces coming in.

Yeah I've been favoring bow 2her although I run medium for shuffle so that I can keep Rally. Rally takes some getting used to but it's a good burst heal when you keep it up and ready. Nice to have with stamplar maybe having the worst heals of stam classes

Dont go sword. Break even more mace to do more damage is around 17k-30k armor and even light armor wearers will tend to get in the lower 20s with ease. We only have minor fracture on our own on POTL and I've stopped using that even but if you run that, spriggans, And are in CP, you can manage with sword.

Only problem with bow is there are a lot of DKs about and even the spread somehow is reflected. 50% damage off sounds crazy but I'm thinking they will eat the status effects then which is why I have bow. Will be curious to see if the DOT is reduced on PI. Was debating switching back to 2her execute again but I do like having it set ahead so I can just keep pressure up.

Vajrak

ZirconJunkie wrote: »

Vajrak wrote:

1) No. Outright no. It's already a reliable source as long as you aren't in cyro, and in cyro anything can become an issue with lag, not just jabs/sweeps, so again; No.

Except it's not all that reliable even in PvE. NPCs walk out of the cone, half of the jab ticks don't even hit in high movement situations such as circling around your target to get out of AOE even though the cross hair is right on target, and there is lag in PvE too, though not as much as in Cyrodiil, which again makes the skill underwhelming. In Cyrodiil, I have no problems using single target abilities in lag like force pulse on a magplar, or even just spamming javelin on a stamplar. Jabs has serious problems that are compounded by lag, which is present at times both in PvE and PvP. What are your suggestions to improve the skill for all areas of the game?

Vajrak wrote:

2) How about "No" on the knock down; the change to Major Protection from its former damage reduction was a big nerf in usefulness and reliability ,and in fact the old version was incredibly useful on a tank or a magplar because the damage reduction applied to damage going to your shields as well. Stop trying to make it a class-variant of Dawnbreaker; if you want that, just use Dawnbreaker---it's fine as is.

Dawnbreaker deals much more damage on the initial hit that Empowering Sweep does, and it also has a DOT that ticks for much longer and for much more. What are your suggestions for making Aedric Spear ultimates more effective for defending our house?

Vajrak wrote:

3) Sun Shield Scaling, and it's morph potential output is fine; it could use a slight cost adjustment because of it's lower total value when compared to other shields, but overall that is the only real change it needs to perform reliably. Remember you can stack it on itself, and both morphs gain strength with more targets hit.

Agree on the cost reduction. It's far too inefficient for what it does.

Vajrak wrote:

4) Again, how about "No". You want Dark Flare to be reliable again, drop the Empower effect (which is what used to give it it's power spike) and make it a unique buff to itself, or even to the next Dawn's Wrath ability --- then it becomes a reliable ranged skill again

The cast time on the skill needs to go. Either that or keep the cast time and make it have a chance to proc an instant cast, similar to crystal fragments.

Vajrak wrote:

5) Even with a 25% reduction in it's damage potential, that stands to become overpowered easily if it went onto PvP like that ---if you want that many changes to it including inability to break free, then it needs to be able to be cleansed and a 33% reduction or a straight out debuff with a 40-50% reduction in it's damage reflection --- but even better, why not just lose the skill entirely in it's current form and replace it with something people would actually want -- a ranged hard snare, whether it be single target or aoe, with a magic damage DoT element on it.

I'd have no issue with Eclipse being able to be cleansed by those who have a cleanse slotted. But being able to be broken as well as giving CC immunity makes the skill pretty underwhelming to use. And we already have a ranged snare with Sun Fire.

Vajrak wrote:

6) No. There are already a lot of weapon options to replace class skills when you go Stam based, that is rather the point of being Stamina based instead of Magicka; stop the homogenization.

Whether I'm focused on stamina or magicka, it'd be great to be able to use our class abilities. Homogenization is what's occurring now with stamina characters because of the lack of useful stamina morphs for our class abilities. Every stamina DPS in PvE uses a bow and Endless Hail, Caltrops, Poison Injection, etc, or dual wield with Rending Slashes, Trap Beast, Vigor, etc. That's homogenization and it's the way stamina classes currently play. There's no diversity. What we need is more useful stamina morphs of our class abilities to retain class uniqueness instead of classes having to go outside their class trees.

Vajrak wrote:

7) No, because Honor and Breath are both designed to be utilized from the Tank position; if you want to use it on yourself, look up or down away from team for the moment it takes to cast it, problem solved, otherwise it's fine as is.

I wasn't aware the devs stated that the design philosophy for Rushed Ceremony and its morphs were to only be used by tanks. I'll have to search for where they said that.

Vajrak wrote:

8) OR how about they just outright revert Healing Ritual --- put the cast time back in, and let it have it's initial burst with 3s later secondary heal for 1/2 value --- that was where a tank had a lot of self and team healing available, plus the ability to give ult to low hp players. It's current iteration is basically useless, even with High recovery instead of a reliable ability it became pure burst. If you really want it to have a tick component, then fit it to the templar model overall -- reduce the cost, and give it initial + 3 ticks of small burst heals so that it still puts out its current value or higher; it does need a cost reduction, but giving it a multiple tick (smaller) burst to go along with Templar HoT (Ritual + Purifying Light) wouldn't be a step in the wrong direction.

Agree.

Before the actual reply; Thank you for responding, and in the way that you did, as that is how discussions happen that may lead to changes, not just whining and nerfs; also, edits for spelling and some derpy sentence structure.

1) I forget which patch it was, but jabs/sweeps did used to be more responsive to movement and repositioning---in it's current iteration making the cone slightly wider would solve a lot of the issue of targets walking out of it, but we'll have to see how that plays with the reduction in time also; no one can defeat the lag dragon, but widening that cone a bit should help to mitigate it a little, and perhaps a small damage boost on the skill itself, not just being one of the better sources of Burning Light procs.

2) I was in favor of how the old skill was, where it was a damage received reduction that stacked with your resistances and shields, and with good placement you could do get damage received down to almost nothing incoming, while making it easy to spam as a tank or magplar. The Stamplar variant needed a boost definitely. If anything make it a reliable source of Burning Light, Defense through Offense, and reduce the tick timer to 1s (half the damage so that the overall potential of the skill alone currently remains the same). In their current iterations, Empowering is underwhelming, both on Tank and Stam DPS, but adding in the burning light procs to it more reliably should make the damage equivalent to Dawnbreaker. It still does not need a knockdown component, and being slightly lower damage (for a skill that is giving Major Protection buff) makes it equivalent in terms of utility as Smiting Dawnbreaker (Flawless has other bonuses).

3) I don't know too many who disagree on this --- it being health based in and of itself isn't an issue, just it's cost for the shield---it already has the lower cap for the damage, and gets bonuses for enemies hit (4-6% depending on morph) so just get the cost in line.

4) An instant cast spam on it could be useful, I don't bother with the new form losing it's self empowering capability because that alone allowed it to be a 20k+ dps spammable with no other skills or DoTs used. It either needs a damage boost and the retained cast time, or instant cast with some type of secondary rider on it, and instant cast would be as good as any, or an amplification to next MAGIC damage skill used.

5) Agreed, no issue with it being able to be cleansed. My issue with sun fire (and morphs) is that it is an outlier in being fire instead of magic damage, but that's a whole other topic. The CC immunity on Eclipse/Morphs is it's major issue, and making it something that needs to be cleansed instead of a CC opens a whole lot of utility for it (Tanks could use it on bosses for incoming heals, dps can use it in pve or pvp to up their damage easily without screwing up rotation) --- still don't think it'd be much of an issue to add a hard snare (i.e. root) to the skill also if it is going to retain the CC properties --- but the design of it at the moment just makes it only good for trash (pve) or unaware/overconfident players (pvp)

6) Stamina from go was more designed around the homogenization, the emphasis of the weapon prowess over class prowess, so it makes sense that it would have more limited morphs from a design stand point of class skills into more power. If the other changes went forward and then the heal came in on top of it, that would be adding a lot of survival to the class (in terms of eclipse morph as a stam morph). The place Stamplar loses out mostly is on Burning Light procs, having only one skill really to proc it instead of 2, but the trade off is a higher base value on it anyway as Weapon Damage is generally higher than Spell Damage. If Stam Morphs really desired, then the skill I'd go for would be Solar Barrage, as that makes more sense to boost into Stam.

7) It was never stated, it's one of those things that you recognize as someone who has designed or worked with game designers -- when you look at the "Restoring Light" tree, passives, and targeting, it is primarily self buffs and PBAoEs (Point Blank Area of Effect, i.e. centered on the caster). While they have utility to others, they are primarily boosts to the caster --- resources, cleanses, resistances -- 2 skills in it are outliers, Rushed Ceremony and Healing Ritual, and even in those Healing Ritual is self-beneficial. It allows a healer to use those 2 skills, but the tank would still be in a better position to do so, easier able to hit melee dps or the healer for an emergency heal with Ceremony, and Healing Ritual with the heal(and potential ult generation) centered on the tank. I don't know if any of the dev's have ever stated it, but if you wanted a Paladin tank style with Templar, that is where you had it, in your ability to heal/assist low allies or yourself from the tank positioning, instead of having to chase the battlefield.

8) Even if you don't agree with the changes to ol' clappy hands, do you at least agree that it needs some type of modification or improvement? It's cost for what it does is too high, so it isn't worth slotting. The smaller burst heals would be more reliable than keeping it up as a PBAoE heal, though if it became a % based heal over a duration it could make sense to use, and would make it viable and give Templar Tank something that has often been asked for -- a % based heal. At least then the current cost (with 12-15s duration perhaps) would be justified.

ZirconJunkie

Vajrak wrote:

Before the actual reply; Thank you for responding, and in the way that you did, as that is how discussions happen that may lead to changes, not just whining and nerfs; also, edits for spelling and some derpy sentence structure.

Yeah try not to make my posts sound whiney, I just think there is a disconnect with the way the game plays and the design philosophy of the Templar. The game requires highly mobile gameplay in both PvE and PvP, yet Templars are designed to be immobile - set up our house, stay in it and fight. But we have lost many of our avenues for mitigating damage in our house, especially in PvP. Both stamina and magicka need a lot of help in this area.

We need more effective class HOTs and/or more damage shield strength, or anything to help us soak up damage aside from just spamming breath of life and hoping it hits us instead of someone else until we run out of magicka, and we need more class morphs that benefit stamina play survivability. We need more group utility. Our passives also need a serious rework and so do most of our ultimates. We have the only class ultimate in the game that prevents us from doing anything else for several seconds while we use it. I think back to how Templars were pre-One Tamriel and it's just a travesty where the class is at now.

If we're meant to stay in our house and fight, give us some benefit for doing so. Give our group members some damage/mitigation buffs while they're in our house fighting with us, and give our enemies debuffs while they're in our house fighting against us. Help us with more survivability, help our group, give our house some meaning.

EtTuBrutus

The changes to vamp bane dot damage timing is upsetting. No longer is it a decent spammable.

Mr_Nobody

If you guys ever feel bad about the performance you can always remember the Imperial City release Templar (and their broken jesus beam, which did not work as a spell at all), or the times when our Jabs gave out free CC immunity to anyone who wanted one.

It's bringing me tears reading through these cool posts with great ideas (especially jabs being instant cast and/or single target based) to be more reliable, but we all know this wont happen, or at least any soon in the upcoming 2-3 years.

ZoS will only adjust the class if no one plays it. And no one should already, but still, there is a few of us who love it for how crappy it is.

I dont even recall the last time i died to a magplar. Pretty sure it hasnt happened at all, or on very rare occasions.

Vajrak

It's not so much a disconnect, the evolution of the game design hasn't kept Templar up with it --- the house has to be mobile basically, as in no longer ground based but self-based, all PBAoE centered auras/effects.

If Sweeps/Jabs was to become single target, or instant cast, then it is going to have to be adjusted for a lot, including in the damage on its base which burning light can proc, and while it may not seem like much off-hand, it can and does add in a LOT of dps, so either Burning Light would need to be reduced, or the skill, or both.

That said, I like the initial concept of Templar, and have been playing once since Beta, I've offered a lot of suggestions here and in conversations on ways to improve the class and make it more relevant without falling on cheese tactics for FotM builds. Play Your Way doesn't mean you have to be the best in all ways, obviously, and something that seems missing in Templar patches and changes is that they seem to have lost view of what they want each role to emphasize for the class.

Templar Tank --- should be a holy paladin, returning some damage, healing self, boosting allies, some soft control --- and this is terribly lacking on just about every front.

Templar Mag DPS (Melee) --- should be about sustaining the pressure on your target; it does this about halfway, as long as sweeps can be relied on but still needs some form of mitigation besides just rune to really emphasize it.

Templar Stam DPS (Melee) --- should be able to hand out debuffs or utilities while maintaining a strong damage presence, not at the absolute top solo but only lowered by the amount of damage it can bring to the party in addition.

Templar Mag DPS (Ranged) --- is a little harder to design, but should be based around high uptime DoTs with only 1 or 2 big damage hits available

Templar Healer --- needs an entire rework, as of now it is rather mixed in with tank, and the % heal bonuses don't really help much so that pretty much every class skill is able to be replaced with a Resto skill and you won't notice much of a difference.

If the class is going to be heavily redesigned to remove the idea of the house and make it more around the idea of Heavy Cavalry (which is how I tend to teach people to treat Templar as):

In interest of readability, will be listing skills, morph suggestions, and doing so by tree



Aedric Spear
Radial Sweep -- both morphs, reduce the time between ticks from 2s to 1s; they need the burning light proc's to remain competitive with other options

Puncturing Strikes --- increase/improve the functionality even in lag, change cone to 8x8 or 10x8
Biting Jabs --- replace "increases weapon critical rating" with a flat penetration buff for the duration
Puncturing Sweep ---functions well as is

Piercing Javelin --- cost reduction on both by ~400 resource
Aurora Javelin --- mark enemy for 8/10/11/12 seconds, taking increased Magic (not elemental) Damage
Binding Javelin --- add in a DoT component equivalent to Spear Shards, giving Stamplar another option for procs of Burning Light

Focused Charge --- both morphs, just QoL improvements on pathing, the overall functionality is fine if that is corrected.
Explosive Charge
Toppling Charge

Spear Shards --- fine as is
Luminous Shards
Blazing Spear

Sun Shield --- Major improvements available to the morphs, but base and morphs need a cost reduction to be viable
Radiant Ward --- Shield 35% + initial burst + self HoT ~15% over 6s
Blazing Shield --- convert to Stam, Shield 30% + initial burst + PBAoE DoT for physical damage, 1s CD, 6s duration --- this now becomes viable for Stam DPS AND Tankplar can utilize either

Dawn's Wrath
Nova -- both morphs really just need a cost reduction, for the damage that it puts out without the synergy it is too high, reduce to around 150, adjust damage of the synergy accordingly.

Sun Fire -- both morphs, remove the flame damage, make it outright magic damage

Solar Flare
Dark Flare --- remove the Empower, instead increase damage of next Dark Flare cast within 6s by 40%
Solar Barrage --- morph to stam, keep the Empower across the duration and make into Physical Damage

Backlash --- just have to fix the wonky interactions it has with multiple casters, remove the overcast damage loss (if overcast, have it force the burst, not lose it all)

Eclipse --- as already discussed, make it not a CC, but an effect that can be cleansed, on total dark a % heal value instead of flat (~5% for 6s duration, or 8% if remaining 4s duration)

Radiant Destruction
Radiant Glory --- fine as is
Radiant Oppression --- change into a stam morph, reduce range to ~20m

Restoring Light
Rite of Passage --- effects remain as is, but remove the channel and have it grant immovable equivalent effect on caster

Rushed Ceremony --- both morphs, heal target AND caster
Honor the Dead --- as is
Breath of Life --- reduce heal value initial by about 30%, replace with 2/4/6s smaller bursts for 10% (same total value)

Healing Ritual --- make into a HoT effect, 12s duration, 4 bursts (initial + 3), effect centered on the caster
Ritual of Rebirth --- proc effect if hp goes below 25% threshold, remaining heals hit all at once
Hasty Ritual --- retain Minor Expedition buff

Restoring Aura --- fine as is
Radiant Aura --- retain radius of original, add minor magicka steal AND on-damage (1s CD, player not target based) flat value heal
Repentance --- 15s duration minor berserk granted to self/allies in the area

Cleansing Ritual --- centered on/moves with caster
Ritual of Retribution --- reduce damage ticks to 0.5s, healing to 1.5s
Extended Ritual --- retain 2s heal proc, add in flat value heal proc when taking damage 0.5s CD, reduce duration to ~16s

Rune Focus --- fine as is for resources, potential to replace the doubled resistances while standing in Rune to a shield value or healing field to the caster only

I think those changes would address a lot of the pain points in the game (I haven't touched on passives for this post obviously), allowing Templar the option of building a house or remaining mobile, giving some thing to both stam or mag morphs, and a lot of QoL improvements to tank play with mixing and matching as desired.

Mrsinister2

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

I dont even recall the last time i died to a magplar. Pretty sure it hasnt happened at all, or on very rare occasions.

I've only ever died to Minno, arya and I forget the other real good dudes names. You really don't see alot of magplars specced for actual fighting there always off healers or full heal bot.

I'd assume this is because of the many reasons listed in this thread. I still love playing magplar tho I'm just really hoping out of all the issues we can just get away from block casting bol for defense and any kind of fix for jabbs/sweeps to be more reliable.

soniku4ikblis

But you aren't playing D&D, you are playing a game series made famous by literally light attacking dumb AI for decades in a fast paced environment lol.

All the more reason the developer is required to spend the necessary time and effort to produce an intelligent design. D&D has its flaws, until you tweak them to suit an intelligently designed campaign. I would think a multi-million dollar company should grasp this concept much more easier than a home-brew campaign.

ZOS, not Bethesda, I can only speculate, is doing the usual corporate strategy with their product: cutting funds to increase profit at the expense of quality. I've seen it in my sector for years and years and it is just irritating.

I am happy we have the ability to touch-base with their community manager and I am happy that at least ZOS will listen though, so that is the silver-lining.

Bethesda puts out good products. They have their short-comings, but on average, they do good work.

ZOS needs to step up their quality assurance. I can hold out for that on a "wait-and-see" basis.

Either way I think we need to wait till pts to see what they have cooked up for Templar. Much of the news related to non-necro changes have been from 3rd party sources, which either can change by time pts drops or were entirely missed from their memory after a couple of weeks. Or true, but need to test because paper > results.

Obviously. What other recourse does the player-base have, aside form with-holding their patroning, and/or feedback?

Skill balance favors 3 jobs at the moment in PVP, the place where you put skills through the ultimate stress-test with a human-responsive-competitor, not an artificial one.

I'll be happier with Templar when that balance is equalized.

This thread is filled with really great suggestions and a-lot of informative feedback so I am cautiously optimistic.

Cinbri

In TESL this morph was made to be offensive for some reason

Destyran

My 3 gripes with magplar.

1.)Jabs sucks hard. It misses frequently

2.)Mist form is a must and this patch makes all my gilded gear redundant because I get hit too hard by things in most why can’t I have a class equivalent.

3.) our healing has been nerfed so much that people don’t realise our literal only burst heal is from the CP passive systems where you block 3 hits and it guarantees the next move be a crit with out that we would straight up not play magplar.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

In TESL this morph was made to be offensive for some reason

Even worse, it looks like multiple shards instead of one giant star dump of a spear lol.

LuxLunae

1. Jabs need to be switched...forget that last hit bs where the slowness occurs...EVERYBODY doesn't get hit by the last hit of jabs. So it should be "upon getting hit ONCE by the jabs, one spear is left in and is stuck into the person. It then explodes after some time dealing some type of damage and snaring them and/or slowing them 70% .

2. Power of the light FORCES ME TO INVEST IN STAMINA ONLY....This makes it possible to ONLY run BONE PIRATES AND HULKING DRAGUR...in pvp for any type of killing power...Not only that for a light based move why the hell can a NB dodge it once they cloak up? It should still pop and show their location.

3. The heals on stamplar are lacking...EVERYBODY has vigor and rally.... you WANT ME TO INVEST IN STAMINA FOR POWER OF THE LIGHT...BUT USE BREATH OF LIFE TO HEAL ME? DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE TO YOU? Don't you dare tell me anything about cheese cleansing...CLEANSING SUCKS and does not substitute a reason for having less healing capability on stamplar...Other classes i used (DK, NB) I CAN OUT HEAL THE MANY DOTs on me.

I PLAYED TEMPLAR SINCE THE DAMN BEGINNING....One day I decided to play DK ...2 weeks later...I am realizing all this time how inferior Templar is to DK and NB. I was given trash all these years... and my eyes were finally opened that day...

OVERHAUL NEEDED PLEASE!!!!

Mitaka211

LuxLunae wrote: »

1. Jabs need to be switched...forget that last hit bs where the slowness occurs...EVERYBODY doesn't get hit by the last hit of jabs. So it should be "upon getting hit ONCE by the jabs, one spear is left in and is stuck into the person. It then explodes after some time dealing some type of damage and snaring them and/or slowing them 70% .

2. Power of the light FORCES ME TO INVEST IN STAMINA ONLY....This makes it possible to ONLY run BONE PIRATES AND HULKING DRAGUR...in pvp for any type of killing power...Not only that for a light based move why the hell can a NB dodge it once they cloak up? It should still pop and show their location.

3. The heals on stamplar are lacking...EVERYBODY has vigor and rally.... you WANT ME TO INVEST IN STAMINA FOR POWER OF THE LIGHT...BUT USE BREATH OF LIFE TO HEAL ME? DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE TO YOU? Don't you dare tell me anything about cheese cleansing...CLEANSING SUCKS and does not substitute a reason for having less healing capability on stamplar...Other classes i used (DK, NB) I CAN OUT HEAL THE MANY DOTs on me.

I PLAYED TEMPLAR SINCE THE DAMN BEGINNING....One day I decided to play DK ...2 weeks later...I am realizing all this time how inferior Templar is to DK and NB. I was given trash all these years... and my eyes were finally opened that day...

OVERHAUL NEEDED PLEASE!!!!

I agree on all point. Stamplar is so damn underwhelming it feels like you are fighting against your own class weaknesses. I like a lot of things about the game but it blows my mind how the developers drove templars to the ground so hard(i also played in the start). When you say the word "templar" the first thing that comes to mind is a holy WARRIOR , not a damn priest that wears robes and uses a staff. I refuse to play as a magika user on my templar. I do well but when i look at my build i realize that the only class skills i am using are, power of the light, jabs , rune and cleansing ritual.
Lack of choice and viability for stamina is absurd to me. It's really obvious that something is wrong when the only viable builds , require you to ignore your class skills. Btw what is even dumber is you can get away with not using jabs and still do fine.
Don't even start me on the passives. We are the one class that can't use most of our passive skills. I would support a rework of the class at this point.
Our ultimate skills are a complete joke. Our stuns are joke, our snares are joke and for class that is clearly meant to have a lot of sustain , our shield and heals suck. Templars are completely reliant on skills that all other classes have access to. i am doing decent in pvp but it's really frustrating that i don't feel like i am playing a templar at all.
If the devs insist on promoting freedom of choice then make it equal between stamina and magika users. One of the most insane things is how we don't get a stamina morph for our class charge. STAMINA user doesn't get a charge really....

WardenOfTheExalted

no natural major brutality buff

Jabbs_Giggity

Mitaka211 wrote: »

LuxLunae wrote: »

1. Jabs need to be switched...forget that last hit bs where the slowness occurs...EVERYBODY doesn't get hit by the last hit of jabs. So it should be "upon getting hit ONCE by the jabs, one spear is left in and is stuck into the person. It then explodes after some time dealing some type of damage and snaring them and/or slowing them 70% .

2. Power of the light FORCES ME TO INVEST IN STAMINA ONLY....This makes it possible to ONLY run BONE PIRATES AND HULKING DRAGUR...in pvp for any type of killing power...Not only that for a light based move why the hell can a NB dodge it once they cloak up? It should still pop and show their location.

3. The heals on stamplar are lacking...EVERYBODY has vigor and rally.... you WANT ME TO INVEST IN STAMINA FOR POWER OF THE LIGHT...BUT USE BREATH OF LIFE TO HEAL ME? DOES THAT EVEN MAKE SENSE TO YOU? Don't you dare tell me anything about cheese cleansing...CLEANSING SUCKS and does not substitute a reason for having less healing capability on stamplar...Other classes i used (DK, NB) I CAN OUT HEAL THE MANY DOTs on me.

I PLAYED TEMPLAR SINCE THE DAMN BEGINNING....One day I decided to play DK ...2 weeks later...I am realizing all this time how inferior Templar is to DK and NB. I was given trash all these years... and my eyes were finally opened that day...

OVERHAUL NEEDED PLEASE!!!!

I agree on all point. Stamplar is so damn underwhelming it feels like you are fighting against your own class weaknesses. I like a lot of things about the game but it blows my mind how the developers drove templars to the ground so hard(i also played in the start). When you say the word "templar" the first thing that comes to mind is a holy WARRIOR , not a damn priest that wears robes and uses a staff. I refuse to play as a magika user on my templar. I do well but when i look at my build i realize that the only class skills i am using are, power of the light, jabs , rune and cleansing ritual.
Lack of choice and viability for stamina is absurd to me. It's really obvious that something is wrong when the only viable builds , require you to ignore your class skills. Btw what is even dumber is you can get away with not using jabs and still do fine.
Don't even start me on the passives. We are the one class that can't use most of our passive skills. I would support a rework of the class at this point.
Our ultimate skills are a complete joke. Our stuns are joke, our snares are joke and for class that is clearly meant to have a lot of sustain , our shield and heals suck. Templars are completely reliant on skills that all other classes have access to. i am doing decent in pvp but it's really frustrating that i don't feel like i am playing a templar at all.
If the devs insist on promoting freedom of choice then make it equal between stamina and magika users. One of the most insane things is how we don't get a stamina morph for our class charge. STAMINA user doesn't get a charge really....

They are implementing a rework to Templar class. Complete overhaul. It's called Necromancer 🤣 Basically everything a Templar should be and has been asked for the last three years has been reworked as a new class behind a paywall hahaha

akredon_ESO

@Jabbs_Giggity if the class changes arnt that good i know i am rolling necro *** this class they dont know what they are doing with it and im tired of trying to fight up hill

dodgehopper_ESO

Checkmath wrote: »

HourEnemy wrote: »

No Class skill that provides major sorcery or brutality. Simple fix, add it to rune focus... Would be the same as Netch for Warden. It's very restrictive running around in rattlecage just to use skills that I actually want to use and spell power pots are even more restrictive in Pvp.
Cheers

Bad idea to overload an already strong skill. NO it would not be the same as the netch of wardens, since rune focus provides sustain and major ward and resolve, meanwhile the netch provides sustain and major sorcery/brutality. Adding sorcery to the rune would make it too powerful as a buff skill.

Netch is also a free self heal when you duck around a corner. I use it all the time. Its not super fast but given the right circumstances its powerful to get a FREE consistent heal going from A to B. It means you can stick in action for more.

dodgehopper_ESO

I'd still like to see one of the Radiant Destruction morphs be changed to a pbaoe stun, BLinding Flashes. It'd be nice for the Templar tank.

StarOfElyon

I love the change to Race Against Time and I think it'll be a great help to Templar mobility. However, I don't think the changes to Sunfire are good. Extending the duration is not helpful for doing damage quickly, which is a problem when players can heal through damage so much. The Dark Flare charge time is shorter but it does a lot less damage. At least Blazing Spear got a buff. I can use that instead of the other projectiles. I would have liked Sun Shield to scale off the highest resource like Ritual of Retribution does now.

It looks like Jabs/Sweeps will still miss a bunch though.

Also, passives like Enduring Ray's still seem pointless to pick up.

technohic

Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 6 meters.
Empowering Sweep (morph): Redesigned this morph to offer damage, rather than survivability. The damage pulse after the initial hit now lasts 6 seconds at base, but is increased by 2 seconds for each enemy hit, up to a maximum of 6 enemies. It also now grants Empower for the duration, rather than Major Protection.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
The Templar has many Ultimates that operate defensively already in their other skill lines (Major Maim from Nova, Major Protection from Remembrance), and we found their toolkit for offensive moments wasn't being given enough opportunity. Back in Update 20, we adjusted Crescent Sweep to deal Magic Damage and introduced a bonus mechanism where enemies hit in a cone in front of you took bonus damage. We wanted the Physical Damage morph to also enable damage, but through alternative means. Now, the entire ability's duration will scale based on enemies hit, and will also grant Empower for the duration.

NOOOO! The other ultimates they mention are magicka based healer types. Empowering was a stam defensive ultimate.

I also see they made Cleansing Ritual scale off of max damage stats. I guess kind of a bone thrown for stamplar

Minno

technohic wrote: »

Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 6 meters.
Empowering Sweep (morph): Redesigned this morph to offer damage, rather than survivability. The damage pulse after the initial hit now lasts 6 seconds at base, but is increased by 2 seconds for each enemy hit, up to a maximum of 6 enemies. It also now grants Empower for the duration, rather than Major Protection.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
The Templar has many Ultimates that operate defensively already in their other skill lines (Major Maim from Nova, Major Protection from Remembrance), and we found their toolkit for offensive moments wasn't being given enough opportunity. Back in Update 20, we adjusted Crescent Sweep to deal Magic Damage and introduced a bonus mechanism where enemies hit in a cone in front of you took bonus damage. We wanted the Physical Damage morph to also enable damage, but through alternative means. Now, the entire ability's duration will scale based on enemies hit, and will also grant Empower for the duration.

NOOOO! The other ultimates they mention are magicka based healer types. Empowering was a stam defensive ultimate.

I also see they made Cleansing Ritual scale off of max damage stats. I guess kind of a bone thrown for stamplar

yea no stamplar love but DK got buffs to healing that make stamplar post-morrowind nerfs cry lol.

technohic

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 6 meters.
Empowering Sweep (morph): Redesigned this morph to offer damage, rather than survivability. The damage pulse after the initial hit now lasts 6 seconds at base, but is increased by 2 seconds for each enemy hit, up to a maximum of 6 enemies. It also now grants Empower for the duration, rather than Major Protection.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
The Templar has many Ultimates that operate defensively already in their other skill lines (Major Maim from Nova, Major Protection from Remembrance), and we found their toolkit for offensive moments wasn't being given enough opportunity. Back in Update 20, we adjusted Crescent Sweep to deal Magic Damage and introduced a bonus mechanism where enemies hit in a cone in front of you took bonus damage. We wanted the Physical Damage morph to also enable damage, but through alternative means. Now, the entire ability's duration will scale based on enemies hit, and will also grant Empower for the duration.

NOOOO! The other ultimates they mention are magicka based healer types. Empowering was a stam defensive ultimate.

I also see they made Cleansing Ritual scale off of max damage stats. I guess kind of a bone thrown for stamplar

yea no stamplar love but DK got buffs to healing that make stamplar post-morrowind nerfs cry lol.

Will be tempted to go back magplar now with root/snare immunity available without a 2her or vamp and increased on range of crescent sweep. That was the big thing stamplar had left for me. Although I do like having the large stam pool to roll dodge in trouble.

StarOfElyon

technohic wrote: »

Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 6 meters.
Empowering Sweep (morph): Redesigned this morph to offer damage, rather than survivability. The damage pulse after the initial hit now lasts 6 seconds at base, but is increased by 2 seconds for each enemy hit, up to a maximum of 6 enemies. It also now grants Empower for the duration, rather than Major Protection.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
The Templar has many Ultimates that operate defensively already in their other skill lines (Major Maim from Nova, Major Protection from Remembrance), and we found their toolkit for offensive moments wasn't being given enough opportunity. Back in Update 20, we adjusted Crescent Sweep to deal Magic Damage and introduced a bonus mechanism where enemies hit in a cone in front of you took bonus damage. We wanted the Physical Damage morph to also enable damage, but through alternative means. Now, the entire ability's duration will scale based on enemies hit, and will also grant Empower for the duration.

NOOOO! The other ultimates they mention are magicka based healer types. Empowering was a stam defensive ultimate.

I also see they made Cleansing Ritual scale off of max damage stats. I guess kind of a bone thrown for stamplar

Yeah, if you were using Solar Barrage you already got empower.

Minno

technohic wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Radial Sweep: Increased the radius of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 6 meters.
Empowering Sweep (morph): Redesigned this morph to offer damage, rather than survivability. The damage pulse after the initial hit now lasts 6 seconds at base, but is increased by 2 seconds for each enemy hit, up to a maximum of 6 enemies. It also now grants Empower for the duration, rather than Major Protection.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
The Templar has many Ultimates that operate defensively already in their other skill lines (Major Maim from Nova, Major Protection from Remembrance), and we found their toolkit for offensive moments wasn't being given enough opportunity. Back in Update 20, we adjusted Crescent Sweep to deal Magic Damage and introduced a bonus mechanism where enemies hit in a cone in front of you took bonus damage. We wanted the Physical Damage morph to also enable damage, but through alternative means. Now, the entire ability's duration will scale based on enemies hit, and will also grant Empower for the duration.

NOOOO! The other ultimates they mention are magicka based healer types. Empowering was a stam defensive ultimate.

I also see they made Cleansing Ritual scale off of max damage stats. I guess kind of a bone thrown for stamplar

yea no stamplar love but DK got buffs to healing that make stamplar post-morrowind nerfs cry lol.

Will be tempted to go back magplar now with root/snare immunity available without a 2her or vamp and increased on range of crescent sweep. That was the big thing stamplar had left for me. Although I do like having the large stam pool to roll dodge in trouble.

speed and *** cc's will be the biggest issues for magplar still.

Mrsinister2

I don't no how I feel about all this I need someone smarter to tell me if Templar is gonna better, worse or pretty much the same.

Hopefully more changes or I'm just not seeing the good stuff in the current changes?

casparian

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

I don't no how I feel about all this I need someone smarter to tell me if Templar is gonna better, worse or pretty much the same.

Hopefully more changes or I'm just not seeing the good stuff in the current changes?

Stamplar: minimally better thanks to Ritual healing change, but relatively worse compared to other buffed classes. Can now run heavy though if that's your thing.

Magplar: worse due to TD nerf, better due to Race Against Time change (no more vampirism), Exploiter builds are possible now though if you want to run 75 Thaum.

Minno

casparian wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

I don't no how I feel about all this I need someone smarter to tell me if Templar is gonna better, worse or pretty much the same.

Hopefully more changes or I'm just not seeing the good stuff in the current changes?

Stamplar: minimally better thanks to Ritual healing change, but relatively worse compared to other buffed classes. Can now run heavy though if that's your thing.

Magplar: worse due to TD nerf, better due to Race Against Time change (no more vampirism), Exploiter builds are possible now though if you want to run 75 Thaum.

THat is my assessment too.

Mrsinister2

casparian wrote: »

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

I don't no how I feel about all this I need someone smarter to tell me if Templar is gonna better, worse or pretty much the same.

Hopefully more changes or I'm just not seeing the good stuff in the current changes?

Stamplar: minimally better thanks to Ritual healing change, but relatively worse compared to other buffed classes. Can now run heavy though if that's your thing.

Magplar: worse due to TD nerf, better due to Race Against Time change (no more vampirism), Exploiter builds are possible now though if you want to run 75 Thaum.

About what I figured I guess I'll let the pts run and hopefully we get a few more benificial changes for both Stam and mag.

For total dark the only nerf was really so it doesnt totally screw dk's right? Should still work the same on everyone else unless I missed something?