[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

technohic

Koolio wrote: »

I just want Honor the Dead to work again

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459804/honor-the-dead-is-broken-with-video#latest

You know, by the sounds of the bug it brings me back to something I always felt about HTD as at least one morph that the major heal is specifically a self heal. Especially now that we have an expensive AOE heal. One thing I like about stamplar over magplar is I know im getting the brunt of my vigor and rally. Not some nearby PUG who refuses to have decent health or a PVP crit resist level, or in this case; in mist form and cant even benefit from the heal.

Minno

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good health regen builds for Magplar that allow it to also do high dps?

The bulk of my troubles stem from DK's and NB's being able to regen back a decent portion of the damage I inflict while they still have a large offense?

Is that the current trend/meta/etc.? To build high regen?

3k SP, 37k Magicka, 28000k resistances, 39%Crit, 30% Crit-damage, and still most of my damage gets mitigated through an oppenent's regen.

I stood and pelted a NB with Vamp Bane-LA and watched his health at 25k. I couldn't get it to go below 23 and they were not blocking and they were not receiving buffs from someone else.

How do I build for that on Magplar? Anyone run something similar on their NB's?

Start here
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/447514/templars-pvp-detailed-guide-suggestions-advice-etc-wrathstone#latest

But I doubt it is recovery as usually Troll King is the biggest source and you're not getting them low enough to proc it. I am assuming you're running heavy armor, nirnhoned, and/or infused weapon damage enchanted weapons based on your stats. Contrary to popular belief; tanking up and stacking stats does not get you kills with just 1 attack and weave unless you're in a zerg . You need penetration and other forms of pressure and I like to always have some sort of defile.

Penetration is greater than damage up until around 10k pen I believe, but if you're a healer, your heals will suffer.

Without defile and just doing a single attack weave, a stam enemy is going to have vigor and FM/Rally ticking and it will make up for that sort of damage.

Thanks. I've already researched all of this and tried it the last three months.

What set combinations made you feel templar was closest to being competitive? And what sets made you feel like templar was only good for taking dumpster fire dumps?

Contrary to popular belief, templar takes a LONG time to master.

StarOfElyon

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good health regen builds for Magplar that allow it to also do high dps?

The bulk of my troubles stem from DK's and NB's being able to regen back a decent portion of the damage I inflict while they still have a large offense?

Is that the current trend/meta/etc.? To build high regen?

3k SP, 37k Magicka, 28000k resistances, 39%Crit, 30% Crit-damage, and still most of my damage gets mitigated through an oppenent's regen.

I stood and pelted a NB with Vamp Bane-LA and watched his health at 25k. I couldn't get it to go below 23 and they were not blocking and they were not receiving buffs from someone else.

How do I build for that on Magplar? Anyone run something similar on their NB's?

This question doesn't belong in this thread, make a new thread in the PvP forum, here-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills

No thanks. I've decided to hang up the templar pvp hat.

I've poured over all of those forums for the last 3 months.

I was hoping to get some great info from people here in the midst of acknowledging the limitations of templar in pvp in the current patch.

However, over the last 3 months, playing this job has been the most stressful, unrewarding, disappointing, and really - just not fun job I've ever played in an MMO.

I'm disappointed with the development team. I sincerely wish they would go through what a player has to go through in order to learn PVP, spend the awful amount of time learning the steep curve required to do so, only to come to the end of all your research and find that the class is insufficient in PVP.

I really would like to hear some sincere feedback from a dev who actually sat down for a few weeks and tried to experience this class from a players point of view and give honest feedback and solutions.

If it has happened, I'd appreciate proof.

Going to switch to another game that is not stressful and is actually fun as far as pvp goes.

Until then~

I rarely log in anymore. I just pop into the forums every once in a while to see if things are being addressed.

Recently I decided to try out the racial changes, my MagPlar still has decent recovery and good spell damage but I can't finish opponents off. They either heal through the damage or they run away. My slow magplar can't stop them from jetting away even with Race Against Time.

Neoauspex

There are definitely tweaks to be made, but overall I feel like magplar is the most competitively balanced it's been since console launch. There's definitely a steep learning curve to PvP though... I certainly wouldn't feel confident after 3 months. I've been refining my build around my strengths and weaknesses as player for 5 years.

Solariken

technohic wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

I just want Honor the Dead to work again

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459804/honor-the-dead-is-broken-with-video#latest

You know, by the sounds of the bug it brings me back to something I always felt about HTD as at least one morph that the major heal is specifically a self heal. Especially now that we have an expensive AOE heal. One thing I like about stamplar over magplar is I know im getting the brunt of my vigor and rally. Not some nearby PUG who refuses to have decent health or a PVP crit resist level, or in this case; in mist form and cant even benefit from the heal.

I would support HTD being a self-only heal. It would be a great way to differentiate DD magplar from healbot and be a slight nerf to healbots since they'd lose a bit of magicka sustain.

Jabbs_Giggity

Not sure about anyone else, but I am really hoping that the only viable back bar setup on Magplar for PVP: Rune, Cleanse, HtD, Mist, Entropy, Bats will change...It works, yes. However it does not give options for variable builds. For a BB setup that is spent 90% on in PVP, I just don't want to spend my PVP time being a heal/cleanse bot anymore...

Cleanse IMO is almost a useless skill now because of how quickly the removed effects are reapplied and/or not prioritized. I slot it for nostalgia hoping the 1/10 times it works in my favor.

BNOC

StarOfElyon wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good health regen builds for Magplar that allow it to also do high dps?

The bulk of my troubles stem from DK's and NB's being able to regen back a decent portion of the damage I inflict while they still have a large offense?

Is that the current trend/meta/etc.? To build high regen?

3k SP, 37k Magicka, 28000k resistances, 39%Crit, 30% Crit-damage, and still most of my damage gets mitigated through an oppenent's regen.

I stood and pelted a NB with Vamp Bane-LA and watched his health at 25k. I couldn't get it to go below 23 and they were not blocking and they were not receiving buffs from someone else.

How do I build for that on Magplar? Anyone run something similar on their NB's?

This question doesn't belong in this thread, make a new thread in the PvP forum, here-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills

No thanks. I've decided to hang up the templar pvp hat.

I've poured over all of those forums for the last 3 months.

I was hoping to get some great info from people here in the midst of acknowledging the limitations of templar in pvp in the current patch.

However, over the last 3 months, playing this job has been the most stressful, unrewarding, disappointing, and really - just not fun job I've ever played in an MMO.

I'm disappointed with the development team. I sincerely wish they would go through what a player has to go through in order to learn PVP, spend the awful amount of time learning the steep curve required to do so, only to come to the end of all your research and find that the class is insufficient in PVP.

I really would like to hear some sincere feedback from a dev who actually sat down for a few weeks and tried to experience this class from a players point of view and give honest feedback and solutions.

If it has happened, I'd appreciate proof.

Going to switch to another game that is not stressful and is actually fun as far as pvp goes.

Until then~

I rarely log in anymore. I just pop into the forums every once in a while to see if things are being addressed.

Recently I decided to try out the racial changes, my MagPlar still has decent recovery and good spell damage but I can't finish opponents off. They either heal through the damage or they run away. My slow magplar can't stop them from jetting away even with Race Against Time.

Purely a DPS standpoint as I have no issue surviving / getting to LOS etc.

These days I find that in CP fights, even average players that I've beat 400 times over can heal at the level I can DPS or outheal me and as you've said, have so much more speed and mobility against me - That's everyone, stam classes included and I'm wouldn't consider myself a slouch on the Templar, in fact I'd say I'm extremely aggressive.

That's not to say they always kill me as more often than not I will win but it just takes so long, almost as if I have to run them out of resources or wait for a glaring mistake (a mistake that they're less punished for than I for the same thing) - I don't think anyone enjoys 30m fights where it comes down to resources and I personally couldn't think of anything worse.

The damage of a full templar burst just isn't enough and is highly predictable - Vb/POTL/Sweep(or alternative)/Insert Ult/execute - Whist that's fine and still ruins people now and then, even the average players can anticipate that burst very easily and because the damage is so soggy it rarely kills them. I can't really change strategy midfight as easily as I can on other characters either because you really need everything to work in sync or you have no hope.

I also feel like if I make a mistake I'm punished significantly harder than other classes (namely stam classes) especially against a decent player, not sure why. Guess it's to do with the time it takes to setup and get going again, especially if I'm caught healing.

However.. in No-CP I do very well, in BG's I'll finish top on damage done consistently (though AOE damage) and will 1 bang players with a dawny.
Though I will add that if I was on a meta character running some carry, 3 ability build like most people then I can guarantee I'd do even better.

Unfortunately for me and what looks like you guys, I'm not a FOTM guy and just want to play my Templar without needing to sweat and dig so deep for the win all the time when other classes are with absolute ease.

technohic

I'm sitting around 8n a waiting room all day so excuse me if I seem to chatty today. I will move on and just drop helping people who ask questions without any interest in an answer that doesn't make them instantly on the level of seasoned vets

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Not sure about anyone else, but I am really hoping that the only viable back bar setup on Magplar for PVP: Rune, Cleanse, HtD, Mist, Entropy, Bats will change...It works, yes. However it does not give options for variable builds. For a BB setup that is spent 90% on in PVP, I just don't want to spend my PVP time being a heal/cleanse bot anymore...

Cleanse IMO is almost a useless skill now because of how quickly the removed effects are reapplied and/or not prioritized. I slot it for nostalgia hoping the 1/10 times it works in my favor.

I have thought that about cleanse before but then I run my magdk or stamsorc. Not useless. Actually great given the current meta. My templar and NB have ways to deal. My frustration would be there are so many roots and snares and they are the last to get removed and really do get reapplied and makes them little less than hard CC for a templar using jabs/sweeps as a spammable or the ultimate. That kind of feeds into your complaint about needing mist, although acceleration is a decent option if you otherwise had root snare removal and immunity. With how short the stam ones are these days, they seem too costly to run on a magicka toon anymore.

I use pots for major sorcery and do not use bats when I run magplar but I feel compelled to have ele drain over our own mag steal and wish if it's going to have a cost due to AOE, at least give me some penetration to compete. Otherwise, it is pretty limited to what you described

Jabbs_Giggity

Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.

Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.

My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...

Minno

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.

Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.

My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...

1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.

2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.

3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.

Jabbs_Giggity

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.

Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.

My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...

1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.
I just want to have an on-demand shield within Class Skills for Magplar that has the Sun Shield glow effect

2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.
I do agree, Stamina is much easier to sustain than before. However, with Templar STILL being the only class to lack Brutality/Sorcery in its toolkit is discouraging. I mentioned changes to somehow force Templar players in to going outside of class skills to get buffs that shouls be otherwise easily obtainable.

3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.

Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.

Elsterchen

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.

Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.

My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...

1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.

2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.

3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.

1) No ... and again no ... leave restoring focus as it is. Some stamplar actually do wear medium armor ... even in PVP. We, too like to go to combat with our behind covered. soooo ... NO.

2) agree

3) agree

Jabbs_Giggity

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.

Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.

My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...

1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.

2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.

3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.

1) No ... and again no ... leave restoring focus as it is. Some stamplar actually do wear medium armor ... even in PVP. We, too like to go to combat with our behind covered. soooo ... NO.

2) agree

3) agree

Not sure what you're trying to say for #1...We weren't talking about removing Major Ward/Major Resolve or removing the Stamina/Magicka recovery. We were saying to drop the additional bonus while standing in the Rune to add a Magicka-based damage shield to Channeled Focus and add a Damage Absorbtion/Return to Rune Focus.
Activating the Rune would asthetically take on the Sun Shield appearance of the glowing light around your body > every other class has a cool unique look, why can't we....

Arguments to replace Sun Shield would be to implement a proper Tanking ability and/or one morph for DPS via AOE in this skill line to compensate for changing Jabs/Sweeps to a Target channel instead of an Area Cone channel.

Soris

StarOfElyon wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good health regen builds for Magplar that allow it to also do high dps?

The bulk of my troubles stem from DK's and NB's being able to regen back a decent portion of the damage I inflict while they still have a large offense?

Is that the current trend/meta/etc.? To build high regen?

3k SP, 37k Magicka, 28000k resistances, 39%Crit, 30% Crit-damage, and still most of my damage gets mitigated through an oppenent's regen.

I stood and pelted a NB with Vamp Bane-LA and watched his health at 25k. I couldn't get it to go below 23 and they were not blocking and they were not receiving buffs from someone else.

How do I build for that on Magplar? Anyone run something similar on their NB's?

This question doesn't belong in this thread, make a new thread in the PvP forum, here-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills

No thanks. I've decided to hang up the templar pvp hat.

I've poured over all of those forums for the last 3 months.

I was hoping to get some great info from people here in the midst of acknowledging the limitations of templar in pvp in the current patch.

However, over the last 3 months, playing this job has been the most stressful, unrewarding, disappointing, and really - just not fun job I've ever played in an MMO.

I'm disappointed with the development team. I sincerely wish they would go through what a player has to go through in order to learn PVP, spend the awful amount of time learning the steep curve required to do so, only to come to the end of all your research and find that the class is insufficient in PVP.

I really would like to hear some sincere feedback from a dev who actually sat down for a few weeks and tried to experience this class from a players point of view and give honest feedback and solutions.

If it has happened, I'd appreciate proof.

Going to switch to another game that is not stressful and is actually fun as far as pvp goes.

Until then~

I rarely log in anymore. I just pop into the forums every once in a while to see if things are being addressed.

Recently I decided to try out the racial changes, my MagPlar still has decent recovery and good spell damage but I can't finish opponents off. They either heal through the damage or they run away. My slow magplar can't stop them from jetting away even with Race Against Time.

^This is what i experience for some time.
First of all every meduim armor builds passively mitigate most of my attacks with shuffle. This on top of the targeting problems of jabs, doubling the problem.
Then radiant destruction ticks are slow and low dmg. It doesnt kill anyone half decent. And thanks to the total dark cc immunity i cant use stuns when i need. This is silly because no class have to choose between being able to do dmg/heal or stun. It used to allow stuns some pathces ago. They should at least revert that.

Jabbs_Giggity

Soris wrote: »

.....targeting problems of jabs, doubling the problem.......

Seems like Jabs/Sweeps - AKA Templar Class Spammable is at the top of the list for Pain Points...
@Checkmath Any word on improvements for next update in terms of the "promised" balancing and performance?

Joy_Division

Solariken wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

I just want Honor the Dead to work again

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/459804/honor-the-dead-is-broken-with-video#latest

You know, by the sounds of the bug it brings me back to something I always felt about HTD as at least one morph that the major heal is specifically a self heal. Especially now that we have an expensive AOE heal. One thing I like about stamplar over magplar is I know im getting the brunt of my vigor and rally. Not some nearby PUG who refuses to have decent health or a PVP crit resist level, or in this case; in mist form and cant even benefit from the heal.

I would support HTD being a self-only heal. It would be a great way to differentiate DD magplar from healbot and be a slight nerf to healbots since they'd lose a bit of magicka sustain.

I doubt ZOS will do that because that's pretty much what Dragonblood does.

StarOfElyon wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

soniku4ikblis wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good health regen builds for Magplar that allow it to also do high dps?

The bulk of my troubles stem from DK's and NB's being able to regen back a decent portion of the damage I inflict while they still have a large offense?

Is that the current trend/meta/etc.? To build high regen?

3k SP, 37k Magicka, 28000k resistances, 39%Crit, 30% Crit-damage, and still most of my damage gets mitigated through an oppenent's regen.

I stood and pelted a NB with Vamp Bane-LA and watched his health at 25k. I couldn't get it to go below 23 and they were not blocking and they were not receiving buffs from someone else.

How do I build for that on Magplar? Anyone run something similar on their NB's?

This question doesn't belong in this thread, make a new thread in the PvP forum, here-
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/PvP-combat-skills

No thanks. I've decided to hang up the templar pvp hat.

I've poured over all of those forums for the last 3 months.

I was hoping to get some great info from people here in the midst of acknowledging the limitations of templar in pvp in the current patch.

However, over the last 3 months, playing this job has been the most stressful, unrewarding, disappointing, and really - just not fun job I've ever played in an MMO.

I'm disappointed with the development team. I sincerely wish they would go through what a player has to go through in order to learn PVP, spend the awful amount of time learning the steep curve required to do so, only to come to the end of all your research and find that the class is insufficient in PVP.

I really would like to hear some sincere feedback from a dev who actually sat down for a few weeks and tried to experience this class from a players point of view and give honest feedback and solutions.

If it has happened, I'd appreciate proof.

Going to switch to another game that is not stressful and is actually fun as far as pvp goes.

Until then~

I rarely log in anymore. I just pop into the forums every once in a while to see if things are being addressed.

Recently I decided to try out the racial changes, my MagPlar still has decent recovery and good spell damage but I can't finish opponents off. They either heal through the damage or they run away. My slow magplar can't stop them from jetting away even with Race Against Time.

IN my opinion, what you are describing is not a templar issue, but a ZOS has nerfed so many offensive skills that it's too easy to be a potato and not die issue.

Granted even during better metas, a magplar will always have to work to get a KB, which I think is fine since a magplar defense make it so every other class have to work to get a KB on it.

Runefang

Can somebody link the Templar discord for me?

cazlonb16_ESO

Checkmath wrote: »

Three months are quite a short time to learn a class. Most people playing on a competitive level played this game for years to get to where they are now. PvP in this game has a steep learning curve, so thinking to be on a decent level after a short time is quite....naive. Learning one class also involves learning the other classes, that is why good players learn faster a new class, since they already know how that class works.

Most of that time is spent learning to work around all the bugs, poor design choices and outright deficiencies of the class though and that kinda reinforces the quoted poster's point.

Minno

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Three months are quite a short time to learn a class. Most people playing on a competitive level played this game for years to get to where they are now. PvP in this game has a steep learning curve, so thinking to be on a decent level after a short time is quite....naive. Learning one class also involves learning the other classes, that is why good players learn faster a new class, since they already know how that class works.

Most of that time is spent learning to work around all the bugs, poor design choices and outright deficiencies of the class though and that kinda reinforces the quoted poster's point.

If you don't think other classes have those, OP is in fora rude Awakening lol.

Alucardo

Templar has come a looong way, and stamplar is in a great spot. The rune focus adjustments was the icing on the cake for me as sustain was a huge issue, and having to stand in that tiny circle.
The only thing that bugs me, and has always bugged me, is jabs. Channelled abilities in PvP are just plain terrible, and jabs is no exception.
Other than that I can't complain.

Elsterchen

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Honestly, one of my biggest issues with Templar (Stam or Mag) is lack of Class Skill toolkit. You have to go elsewhere for anything useful. This really limits options with barspace and choice of skills. Because Templars are currently designed to build one bar offensive and one bar defensive you are reducing efficiency of the Class itself.

Burst options require a longer window that is ineffective with no way to really interrupt incoming attacks via CC or interrupt or root and lacks proper defensive skills to truly mitigate huge damage tooltips from other class kits while ensuring this channel for burst.

My personal opinions would be to do the following:
1. Change Rune and morphs to drop the extra resist bonus and combine with sun shield > one being a magicka shield and other being a damage output.
2. Change cleanse to 3 effects on both morphs and add brutality/sorcery for morphs.
3. Change jabs to faster channel with one less strike and make single targeted with aoe splash. Make the target window follow target until channel is over. Currently the lowest spammable tooltip of all classes by a longshot with questionable hit rate...

1) number one makes sense. Anything to get mag scaled dmg shield for our class shield lol.

2) cleanse is fine; for snares you have to dodge roll cancel purge to see the best benefit and then reposition so you only fight 1-2 players. major sorcery, while important, probably wont be given to cleanse. Spell power pots are the best solution for templar; we can sustain the stam better this patch than the previous 5 years of this game.

3)agreed. jabs should be faster like they did for DW spamable and our jesus beam.

1) No ... and again no ... leave restoring focus as it is. Some stamplar actually do wear medium armor ... even in PVP. We, too like to go to combat with our behind covered. soooo ... NO.

2) agree

3) agree

Not sure what you're trying to say for #1...We weren't talking about removing Major Ward/Major Resolve or removing the Stamina/Magicka recovery. We were saying to drop the additional bonus while standing in the Rune to add a Magicka-based damage shield to Channeled Focus and add a Damage Absorbtion/Return to Rune Focus.
Activating the Rune would asthetically take on the Sun Shield appearance of the glowing light around your body > every other class has a cool unique look, why can't we....

Arguments to replace Sun Shield would be to implement a proper Tanking ability and/or one morph for DPS via AOE in this skill line to compensate for changing Jabs/Sweeps to a Target channel instead of an Area Cone channel.

Well, replacing sunshield and messing with restoring focus are 2 pair of shoes. Why break a nice ability appart to "maybe" get somthing semi-functional in another skill?

I am sure we can have both: restoring focus as it is AND a usefull sun shield ... or in other words: we deserve something thats not utter trash for sun shield, and no, i do think we don't need to trade anything for that.

Checkmath

@Runefang

https://discord.gg/3fGaan

@Jabbs_Giggity

There are changes coming with Elsweyr, also some of them concern templars. Just stay patient.

Minno

Checkmath wrote: »

@Runefang

https://discord.gg/3fGaan

@Jabbs_Giggity

There are changes coming with Elsweyr, also some of them concern templars. Just stay patient.

Oh i know!

"templar:
- removed minor mending. Necromancer healers needed something unique so we delete templar healing lol.
- mending passive nerfed to 5%
- biting jabs turned into high health scaled attack
- repentance nerfed to give necro body mechanic and now grants some boring minor stam steal of 100 stam per second."

StarOfElyon

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

@Runefang

https://discord.gg/3fGaan

@Jabbs_Giggity

There are changes coming with Elsweyr, also some of them concern templars. Just stay patient.

Oh i know!

"templar:
- removed minor mending. Necromancer healers needed something unique so we delete templar healing lol.
- mending passive nerfed to 5%
- biting jabs turned into high health scaled attack
- repentance nerfed to give necro body mechanic and now grants some boring minor stam steal of 100 stam per second."

Repentance is done for. Let's prepare our hearts.

Solariken

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

@Runefang

https://discord.gg/3fGaan

@Jabbs_Giggity

There are changes coming with Elsweyr, also some of them concern templars. Just stay patient.

Oh i know!

"templar:
- removed minor mending. Necromancer healers needed something unique so we delete templar healing lol.
- mending passive nerfed to 5%
- biting jabs turned into high health scaled attack
- repentance nerfed to give necro body mechanic and now grants some boring minor stam steal of 100 stam per second."

Repentance is done for. Let's prepare our hearts.

Yeah I've been quietly wondering if Repentance would be neutered because Necro. Maybe they'll make it something cool though?

Repentance Judgment:
Your enemies will writhe in the full burden of their misdeeds by the light of your violent absolution. Activate to consume all of your damage over time effects on the target dealing damage equal to the sum of damage consumed.

Stand and be judged!

soniku4ikblis

Jabs should be faster, yes. However, the bigger problem is the "Area" effect on the skill that should just be changed to "Target" instead. The skill already has "splash" damage in the form of "X damage to nearby players". Other than that, The highest I could reach for tooltip, either on Jabs or Sweeps, while still being able to adequately play the class is 4500 fully buffed - this tooltip is for overall duration of channel, not per jab. In comparison with other Class spammables they are dealing on average fully buffed 12-15K tooltips.

^This

soniku4ikblis

Joy_Division wrote: »

Granted even during better metas, a magplar will always have to work to get a KB, which I think is fine since a magplar defense make it so every other class have to work to get a KB on it.

I love balance. So I agree to a point. Templar is suffering from an imbalance though, regardless of patch.

A sorcerer or a DK can easily wipe out a Magplar's stamina from about a 45 second to 1 minute rotation of very-difficult-to-interrupt-stuns and immobilizes, especially in overland PVP. A Magplar cannot effectively build for stamina unless they sacrifice damage on already difficult to land abilities. A Stamplar has an advantage over a Magplar in that situation, but faces the same problem in that a good portion of the Plar's time is dodging, purging, healing, blocking, and trying to land a hit-box of very hard to land jabs in some sort of burst combo.

Plar's have to play way too defensively for my tastes in overland PVP 1v1 using a jabs-burst-combo. Stick and move doesn't work either. None of the class skills hit hard enough. Dark Flare is so easy to interrupt a good player will never let you get that off. The hitbox of jabs is difficult to land on speedy characters or teleporters.

I cannot agree that getting a KB on a Templar requires work under several specific scenarios to which a Plar has little counter-action that allows to remount an offensive to put your opponent on defense.

I mean, do the Devs ever try to rebound from a Runecage combo on a Plar? Sure, if you build up 28k+ defense at 25-27k health, you might scrape away from it, but you're stuck on defense afterwards. Pop an invis pot, great. Maybe you can reset the battle. I wouldn't dare hit Precognition. I need my ULT to dps. By that time, you're susceptible to the combo all over again. That's when you're getting Runecaged after your jab combo that didn't take but 1/3 of the sorc's health.

Pressure. That's a plar's biggest flaw. To apply pressure and follow up with a strong execute leaves us usually playing defense and having to time combos while playing cat and mouse.

That is incredibly stressful, un-fun, and boring.

Fight a DK. You get Petrified, break out, and immobilized by a DK and you're out 5-6k stamina. That's 1/3 of your 15k pool. You can survive about 3 of those with a 3 second window to land your clunky skills. You can't land a dark flare > stun > jab in 3 seconds on a moving target in melee range.

It's stressing me out reliving these scenarios mentally just now lol. Just, Not, Fun.

I've seen some say that if you give plar an uninterruptible stun, that would level the playing field. Or give them a class immobilize. I've seen the issues with PoTL/PL. I mean I just don't think it would be un-balanced to do so. I already battle tons of tanky deeps with a regen spec, or a teleporting stunlocking specs who can easily outheal damage, not to mention specs that go invis and heal up just nicely.

Plar's and their strong single target burst heal (that doesn't heal the plar if another target is in LOS btw) is not a broken mechanic that it cannot be supported by many of the same skills other classes have. I don't think it would be overpowered to give plars a better balance of offense and CC.

I'm happy that ZOS wants all classes to not be restrained by their jobs. I'm fine that the passives and a few select abilities make each class unique. Unfortunately, the tweeking in that process, while on-going, favors the classes who can perform un-uninterruptible stuns and immobilizes, who can go invisible, and who can run away quickly while still having a huge offense to re-mount.

Plar's are tanky with under-average offense that is very difficult to land appropriately and very little CC to remain competitive.

None of this is new though. Plar's have always been tanky.

Will hold out hope for the class.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some comments that were not constructive. Please keep your posts on topic and avoid derailing this thread.

Stibbons

Frankly my dear magplar have suffered too much at this point. Only working defence is to spam heals until you are out of magic or double cc:d out of stamina. No real defence or mobility options. If someone stands in front of you they will likely steal your heals.

cazlonb16_ESO

Minno wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Three months are quite a short time to learn a class. Most people playing on a competitive level played this game for years to get to where they are now. PvP in this game has a steep learning curve, so thinking to be on a decent level after a short time is quite....naive. Learning one class also involves learning the other classes, that is why good players learn faster a new class, since they already know how that class works.

Most of that time is spent learning to work around all the bugs, poor design choices and outright deficiencies of the class though and that kinda reinforces the quoted poster's point.

If you don't think other classes have those, OP is in fora rude Awakening lol.

Well, I do play other classes. That's how I know that few if any other of them have to deal with the same amount of BS, starting with being affected most by the in combat bug and opponents being able to just f'in walk out of half of the attacking toolkit.

€: This applies to Cyrodiil, in BGs Templars are fine.