[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread

Illuvatarr · February 2019

With bot

Minalan wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Expert wrote: »

From my time in Cyrodil pvping about 200-300 kills daily, I can't stress enough about how annoying wingspammers are from DK's.(I main magsorc)

Reflecting every bit of sorcs frags, stun directed back to the caster with little effort. Nothing stops them from spamming wings because it costs cheaper than before, and they get a load of benefits with it.

Long story short, wings on DK need to be looked at. How can a sorc work on a burst on a DK with 30k hp and wingspams? Leaves you to the mercy of DK and hoping he'd make a mistake and not spam wing hard enough. Otherwise I'm just light attacking him waiting for wings to go down before i frag myself again.

In other words, if you don't think wings are disruptive. Imagine a shield that deflects all DOTS and bleeds to the caster, that's pretty disruptive because classes depend on it. I can say the same for Sorcs and magNB when it comes down to projectiles because our class is built around it. 1 skill shouldn't completely counter most of the burst, but I have a few ideas about DK wings.

Just take one of these examples for an idea, but they don't have to be a thing.

-Make wings cost more to prevent wingspammers.
-Take a % of dmg and deflect a % of dmg with wings. Allow sorcs and magNB have something to work on in the longterm run in pvp rather than hurting themselves entirely.
-Shorten the amount of projectiles blocked on DK

Any one of the 3 or an idea of your own rooted from this suggestion will help. DK's have such a strong CC, which is the focus. But they should not be entirely immune to all projectile abilities for as long as they like to spam wings. Force Pulse is a great way to counter it, but we don't have enough bar space to use it because we need a stun like Flame reach.

I only have a few things in my skill bar that I can do on a wingspammer, curse, ele drain, streak, execute.

That's it, tell me how you're going to solo a 30k hp DK with those 3 offensive skills and 1 debuff. We can try using ultimate like atro but they'll just run away and come back after it despawns lol

Daedric tomb/heavy overload/cyrodiils light armor/blockade/curse/force pulse

This here is absolutely hilarious heavy overload? Blockade?

I might as well drop my weapon and offer a slap fight.

Being 100 percent serious. Try it:) could also throw in silver leash if you are feeling risky. For a duel of course.

I've tried it, and no. It doesn't work and neither of those are good.

Atronach works, but a smart DK is just going to drool on their wings key and walk ten meters away then wait. Lol snares.

Healing is strong enough to outdo force pulse spam with curse. I'll have to give tomb a try, but getting that to hit just right is questionable.

With both pets (Stronach and matriarch), boundless, curse, blockade and heavy overload you have 5 passive sources of sustained dos. Heavy overload and eke drain provide your sustain, add in entropy for healing and extra dps which add another source of passive dps. Pets on test hitting for 4-6k per shot, heavy overload will hit for 4K a shot, blockade hitting for 1-1.5k a shot, boundless 1-1.5k a shot and curse needs to be reapplied. Use lord wardens for the duel with boundless and defensive with ice staff on back bar. You will have about 35k resists on both physical and spell on your back bar( which is where you should be 90 percent of the fight). You will roast the DK in a duel. Open world is an entirely different discussion.

Minalan · February 2019

Illuvatarr wrote: »

With bot

Minalan wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Expert wrote: »

From my time in Cyrodil pvping about 200-300 kills daily, I can't stress enough about how annoying wingspammers are from DK's.(I main magsorc)

Reflecting every bit of sorcs frags, stun directed back to the caster with little effort. Nothing stops them from spamming wings because it costs cheaper than before, and they get a load of benefits with it.

Long story short, wings on DK need to be looked at. How can a sorc work on a burst on a DK with 30k hp and wingspams? Leaves you to the mercy of DK and hoping he'd make a mistake and not spam wing hard enough. Otherwise I'm just light attacking him waiting for wings to go down before i frag myself again.

In other words, if you don't think wings are disruptive. Imagine a shield that deflects all DOTS and bleeds to the caster, that's pretty disruptive because classes depend on it. I can say the same for Sorcs and magNB when it comes down to projectiles because our class is built around it. 1 skill shouldn't completely counter most of the burst, but I have a few ideas about DK wings.

Just take one of these examples for an idea, but they don't have to be a thing.

-Make wings cost more to prevent wingspammers.
-Take a % of dmg and deflect a % of dmg with wings. Allow sorcs and magNB have something to work on in the longterm run in pvp rather than hurting themselves entirely.
-Shorten the amount of projectiles blocked on DK

Any one of the 3 or an idea of your own rooted from this suggestion will help. DK's have such a strong CC, which is the focus. But they should not be entirely immune to all projectile abilities for as long as they like to spam wings. Force Pulse is a great way to counter it, but we don't have enough bar space to use it because we need a stun like Flame reach.

I only have a few things in my skill bar that I can do on a wingspammer, curse, ele drain, streak, execute.

That's it, tell me how you're going to solo a 30k hp DK with those 3 offensive skills and 1 debuff. We can try using ultimate like atro but they'll just run away and come back after it despawns lol

Daedric tomb/heavy overload/cyrodiils light armor/blockade/curse/force pulse

This here is absolutely hilarious heavy overload? Blockade?

I might as well drop my weapon and offer a slap fight.

Being 100 percent serious. Try it:) could also throw in silver leash if you are feeling risky. For a duel of course.

I've tried it, and no. It doesn't work and neither of those are good.

Atronach works, but a smart DK is just going to drool on their wings key and walk ten meters away then wait. Lol snares.

Healing is strong enough to outdo force pulse spam with curse. I'll have to give tomb a try, but getting that to hit just right is questionable.

With both pets (Stronach and matriarch), boundless, curse, blockade and heavy overload you have 5 passive sources of sustained dos. Heavy overload and eke drain provide your sustain, add in entropy for healing and extra dps which add another source of passive dps. Pets on test hitting for 4-6k per shot, heavy overload will hit for 4K a shot, blockade hitting for 1-1.5k a shot, boundless 1-1.5k a shot and curse needs to be reapplied. Use lord wardens for the duel with boundless and defensive with ice staff on back bar. You will have about 35k resists on both physical and spell on your back bar( which is where you should be 90 percent of the fight). You will roast the DK in a duel. Open world is an entirely different discussion.

I'll go and use two ultimates at the same time to kill a dragon knight. Atronach AND heavy overload at the same time.

And that's how you kill them sorcs, wings isn't overpowered.

https://youtu.be/qHBQ0c5f-Zo

Illuvatarr · February 2019

Minalan wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

With bot

Minalan wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Expert wrote: »

From my time in Cyrodil pvping about 200-300 kills daily, I can't stress enough about how annoying wingspammers are from DK's.(I main magsorc)

Reflecting every bit of sorcs frags, stun directed back to the caster with little effort. Nothing stops them from spamming wings because it costs cheaper than before, and they get a load of benefits with it.

Long story short, wings on DK need to be looked at. How can a sorc work on a burst on a DK with 30k hp and wingspams? Leaves you to the mercy of DK and hoping he'd make a mistake and not spam wing hard enough. Otherwise I'm just light attacking him waiting for wings to go down before i frag myself again.

In other words, if you don't think wings are disruptive. Imagine a shield that deflects all DOTS and bleeds to the caster, that's pretty disruptive because classes depend on it. I can say the same for Sorcs and magNB when it comes down to projectiles because our class is built around it. 1 skill shouldn't completely counter most of the burst, but I have a few ideas about DK wings.

Just take one of these examples for an idea, but they don't have to be a thing.

-Make wings cost more to prevent wingspammers.
-Take a % of dmg and deflect a % of dmg with wings. Allow sorcs and magNB have something to work on in the longterm run in pvp rather than hurting themselves entirely.
-Shorten the amount of projectiles blocked on DK

Any one of the 3 or an idea of your own rooted from this suggestion will help. DK's have such a strong CC, which is the focus. But they should not be entirely immune to all projectile abilities for as long as they like to spam wings. Force Pulse is a great way to counter it, but we don't have enough bar space to use it because we need a stun like Flame reach.

I only have a few things in my skill bar that I can do on a wingspammer, curse, ele drain, streak, execute.

That's it, tell me how you're going to solo a 30k hp DK with those 3 offensive skills and 1 debuff. We can try using ultimate like atro but they'll just run away and come back after it despawns lol

Daedric tomb/heavy overload/cyrodiils light armor/blockade/curse/force pulse

This here is absolutely hilarious heavy overload? Blockade?

I might as well drop my weapon and offer a slap fight.

Being 100 percent serious. Try it:) could also throw in silver leash if you are feeling risky. For a duel of course.

I've tried it, and no. It doesn't work and neither of those are good.

Atronach works, but a smart DK is just going to drool on their wings key and walk ten meters away then wait. Lol snares.

Healing is strong enough to outdo force pulse spam with curse. I'll have to give tomb a try, but getting that to hit just right is questionable.

With both pets (Stronach and matriarch), boundless, curse, blockade and heavy overload you have 5 passive sources of sustained dos. Heavy overload and eke drain provide your sustain, add in entropy for healing and extra dps which add another source of passive dps. Pets on test hitting for 4-6k per shot, heavy overload will hit for 4K a shot, blockade hitting for 1-1.5k a shot, boundless 1-1.5k a shot and curse needs to be reapplied. Use lord wardens for the duel with boundless and defensive with ice staff on back bar. You will have about 35k resists on both physical and spell on your back bar( which is where you should be 90 percent of the fight). You will roast the DK in a duel. Open world is an entirely different discussion.

I'll go and use two ultimates at the same time to kill a dragon knight. Atronach AND heavy overload at the same time.

And that's how you kill them sorcs, wings isn't overpowered.

https://youtu.be/qHBQ0c5f-Zo

Use heavy overload until you are at 34 percent then drop Atronach:) repeat:)

barshemm · February 2019

Meanwhile the sorc is able to have a shield eat the entirety of a light attack, dizzy swing, berserker rage combo even with me pushing 5k weapon damage, break free and put up a new shield and begin his light attack/flame reach spam as that curse keeps ticking.

Sorry but all builds have counters. Most mag sorcs directly counter my 2h/bow Stam sorc build, is what it is. Mag DKs with wings shut down range and with their root spam also shut down most melee who don't run forward momentum. They however melt to bleed/defile builds.

Ran into a Stam sorc using silver leash as a spammable, have to admit I'm intrigued by that idea. Getting tired of the dizzy swing spammable again pretty quick.

Illuvatarr · February 2019

If you wish to champion a change to wings, one that would provide for good counter play would have it not function within 12 meter range as indicated or have it absorb as opposed to reflect. There IS a major balance issue when dks can use bow and wings together. However that has less to do with the DK class kit than it does with bow being yet another stamina ability line that trumps magicka. It makes no sense to give stam the best melee and ranged attacks which is what bow and stam melee weapon specs currently offers to stam players.

Ragnarock41 · February 2019

Illuvatarr wrote: »

If you wish to champion a change to wings, one that would provide for good counter play would have it not function within 12 meter range as indicated or have it absorb as opposed to reflect. There IS a major balance issue when dks can use bow and wings together. However that has less to do with the DK class kit than it does with bow being yet another stamina ability line that trumps magicka. It makes no sense to give stam the best melee and ranged attacks which is what bow and stam melee weapon specs currently offers to stam players.

Please don't tell me you got killed by a bow stamDk

You play in sotha eu right? If thats the case, I might be the one responsible for this

Edit: On the topic of wings I'm not against the idea of making it an absorb, if it means the class gets the attention it deserves, though I can assure you there are no problems about DKs using a bow. Its not an overperforming spec, Bow is not an overperforming weapon.

Illuvatarr · February 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

If you wish to champion a change to wings, one that would provide for good counter play would have it not function within 12 meter range as indicated or have it absorb as opposed to reflect. There IS a major balance issue when dks can use bow and wings together. However that has less to do with the DK class kit than it does with bow being yet another stamina ability line that trumps magicka. It makes no sense to give stam the best melee and ranged attacks which is what bow and stam melee weapon specs currently offers to stam players.

Please don't tell me you got killed by a bow stamDk You play in sotha eu right? If thats the case, I might be the one responsible for this

Edit: On the topic of wings I'm not against the idea of making it an absorb, if it means the class gets the attention it deserves, though I can assure you there are no problems about DKs using a bow. Its not an overperforming spec, Bow is not an overperforming weapon.

I will respectfully disagree. However my views on it are different from others that disagree. I think draining shot and scattershot should not have 41 meter range but until they resolve the resist issue in pvp, I think snipe should remain as is. It utterly sucks but in my view it helps to maintain overall pvp balance.

I don’t think they need to nerf any more class abilities to support the broken CP system. However it makes no sense to give a class the ability to use the strongest ranged spec line in game and concurrently have an ability that allows them to reflect ranged attacks. I am not going to get behind a nerf to DK’s. So bow it is.

Beardimus · February 2019

I agree on DK wings, they our counter right now. I'm kinda ok with it, as everything needs a anti-class. However it feels they can maintain them longer and easier than wards, on a bar with NB stealth, and our counters need specific skills slotted.

Sure if I'm in dueking comp with one I'm on force pulse and will have atro and OL slotted. But my main setup has been forced into reach, for bar space and cage being shite. And Meteor (or DB) and restro ult as we lost healing wards usefulness.

I'm ok with it, they do seem OP, and i know i can beat then if I'm prepared but they annoy me.

Likewise chasing NBs with curse gets dull. They will die, but its a time burn is all...

Ragnarock41 · February 2019

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Illuvatarr wrote: »

If you wish to champion a change to wings, one that would provide for good counter play would have it not function within 12 meter range as indicated or have it absorb as opposed to reflect. There IS a major balance issue when dks can use bow and wings together. However that has less to do with the DK class kit than it does with bow being yet another stamina ability line that trumps magicka. It makes no sense to give stam the best melee and ranged attacks which is what bow and stam melee weapon specs currently offers to stam players.

Please don't tell me you got killed by a bow stamDk You play in sotha eu right? If thats the case, I might be the one responsible for this

Edit: On the topic of wings I'm not against the idea of making it an absorb, if it means the class gets the attention it deserves, though I can assure you there are no problems about DKs using a bow. Its not an overperforming spec, Bow is not an overperforming weapon.

I will respectfully disagree. However my views on it are different from others that disagree. I think draining shot and scattershot should not have 41 meter range but until they resolve the resist issue in pvp, I think snipe should remain as is. It utterly sucks but in my view it helps to maintain overall pvp balance.

I don’t think they need to nerf any more class abilities to support the broken CP system. However it makes no sense to give a class the ability to use the strongest ranged spec line in game and concurrently have an ability that allows them to reflect ranged attacks. I am not going to get behind a nerf to DK’s. So bow it is.

I wouldn't call bow the strongest ranged weapon line, very annoying? For sure. But the times I die to a bow user are extremely limited , and Its often outnumbered scenarios where I can't pay attention to it.(There are a few cases where I got blasted by bow ultimate combined with draining shot+snipe to the face, that combo is very toxic, If you get caught by it there is no escape)

The nature of the weapon supports ganking and Xv1. Very good synergy with gankblades but other than that Its only viable as a back bar weapon, for the utility it brings, rather than the damage. Because well, sitting there spamming snipes won't get you very far and bow survivability sucks outside of cloak spammers.

Thats why they buffed the draining shot I believe, to increase the number of people using bow(also to combat the tank meta we are in) but they forgot it has a very clunky CC.

So I agree on draining shot being very dumb with increased range and its clunky CC, and snipe? Well its on ZOS's radar now. Who knows what will happen to it.

cpuScientist · March 2019

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Beardimus · March 2019

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Interesting take. PvP i gravitated back to a pet for a heal, not due to damage etc it LOS but healing ward being broke meant time to try other things, and actually using a class heal is cool. Not tied to a restro.

If we had a class heal, I'd have gone to that. So whilst i hear you i wouldn't want to revert to cage meta (strong but dull) nor tied to healing ward.

A one bar heal would be sweet.

And yes I'm all for Frag being returned, CC is our issue still.

And bar space, overload made that worse, so Pets have alot of downside with all those slots. So i don't fully agree, we have something different now, i for one have adapted, happy to roll with it than just revert.

Ward changes backfired, i had no impen before, now I'm tankier wards down but i lost damage, but the QQ brigade brought it on themselves with cries for ward nerf.

cpuScientist · March 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Interesting take. PvP i gravitated back to a pet for a heal, not due to damage etc it LOS but healing ward being broke meant time to try other things, and actually using a class heal is cool. Not tied to a restro.

If we had a class heal, I'd have gone to that. So whilst i hear you i wouldn't want to revert to cage meta (strong but dull) nor tied to healing ward.

A one bar heal would be sweet.

And yes I'm all for Frag being returned, CC is our issue still.

And bar space, overload made that worse, so Pets have alot of downside with all those slots. So i don't fully agree, we have something different now, i for one have adapted, happy to roll with it than just revert.

Ward changes backfired, i had no impen before, now I'm tankier wards down but i lost damage, but the QQ brigade brought it on themselves with cries for ward nerf.

Yeah I know what you mean. Just Everytime ZOS buffs us into a corner they turn around and just levy huge nerfs to the class or fundamental changes. But whatever I guess. It is the pet class and ZOS has been slowly but surely Nerfing normal sorcs and buffing pet sorc as they want the pet class to use pets. And by golly they have succeeded, just alot of the fun has been drained out, I guess I just gotta main something else lol the pet style is boring and OP. And knowing that they will continue to make pets the only truly viable option just kills any reason to keep holding on to non pet sorc.

Lord-Otto · March 2019

I will give this a try once I got access to Wrathstone.
What's your bars like? I assume you sacrificed Healing Ward and then Dark Conversion or Fury?

cpuScientist · March 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I will give this a try once I got access to Wrathstone.
What's your bars like? I assume you sacrificed Healing Ward and then Dark Conversion or Fury?

FRONT: Matriarch, Flame touch(28m one), curse and either lightning form or ele drain. FRAG
BACK: Matriarch, light armor shield, hardened ward, dark conversion, streak/lightning form.

Necro body, lich back bar, bloodspawn shadowrend or chudan.

I usually use shadowrend no streak for duels and chudan with streak open world. Ele drain is stupidly strong so I cannot see myself dropping it again. Fury is neato but not needed and drain outdoes it greatly for me at least. But it's up to preference.

Lord-Otto · March 2019

No Frags?
=O

Shaloknir · March 2019

I like sorcerer class! Nice theme and feel. Now my 2 painpoints are:

1. Pets look awful. Please rework them to look cool like warden netch and give sustain. Pet that gives sustain and is not a damage ability could be fun.

2. Too many pets. I think 1 pet skill is enough. Rework other to be spammable like the birdskill with warden class. Sorcerers lack a class spammable right?

JusticeSouldier · March 2019

Want to change Hurricane and LIghtning form visual effects - to remove transparency from it.
So much frustrated to not see character inside these lightnings and wind.
And, it have no any core inside to make your character look invisible.

Digiman · March 2019

1. Pet peeve is the requiring of pets to be on both bars. Makes it hard for building and forces developers make the pets OP to make it worth it that they can't be balanced.

2. Bolt escape and its morphs was originally designed for mobility it would be nice to use them as such with stagnant wait time and being locked into the direction your character is facing.

Minalan · March 2019

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Sorry. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that wants the instant stun and damage back on rune cage.

Sorc is competitive this patch, and feels just about right for the first time in I can't remember when. It's not overpowered, and the only people complaining about it are non pet sorcs.

Sorry pet haters, but you will perform less than optimal when you ignore a full third of your class toolkit and passives. What other class does that? Sorc could easily run without a pet before because we were ridiculously overtuned. Now we're not.

Just... Don't bring pets to a duel, they aren't balanced in the tiny box boundary.

Lord-Otto · March 2019

Minalan wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Sorry. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that wants the instant stun and damage back on rune cage.

Sorc is competitive this patch, and feels just about right for the first time in I can't remember when. It's not overpowered, and the only people complaining about it are non pet sorcs.

Sorry pet haters, but you will perform less than optimal when you ignore a full third of your class toolkit and passives. What other class does that? Sorc could easily run without a pet before because we were ridiculously overtuned. Now we're not.

Just... Don't bring pets to a duel, they aren't balanced in the tiny box boundary.

Or. Damage OR stun. And I think that's not asking for too much.
Pets mandatory? Uh-huh. And how does PvE fit into that assumption? When's the last time high-end guilds asked you to use your full class arsenal, pets, two of them, because that's supposedly your class identity? More over, pets are just two skills. TWO. Well, and an ultimate. Are we now balancing Nightblades around Malevolent Offering? Ripping off selfheals from all other NB skills to force you into using that weird one skill? Ugh.
No, you're just happy non-pet sorcs have been beaten down. Don't come up with some BS ideology that holds no water, just to hide that.

Minalan · March 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Sorry. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that wants the instant stun and damage back on rune cage.

Sorc is competitive this patch, and feels just about right for the first time in I can't remember when. It's not overpowered, and the only people complaining about it are non pet sorcs.

Sorry pet haters, but you will perform less than optimal when you ignore a full third of your class toolkit and passives. What other class does that? Sorc could easily run without a pet before because we were ridiculously overtuned. Now we're not.

Just... Don't bring pets to a duel, they aren't balanced in the tiny box boundary.

Or. Damage OR stun. And I think that's not asking for too much.
Pets mandatory? Uh-huh. And how does PvE fit into that assumption? When's the last time high-end guilds asked you to use your full class arsenal, pets, two of them, because that's supposedly your class identity? More over, pets are just two skills. TWO. Well, and an ultimate. Are we now balancing Nightblades around Malevolent Offering? Ripping off selfheals from all other NB skills to force you into using that weird one skill? Ugh.
No, you're just happy non-pet sorcs have been beaten down. Don't come up with some BS ideology that holds no water, just to hide that.

Cage never needed the damage, and because of the range and effectiveness it needed some kind of counter. That being said, cage is still amazing when used against perma-blockers.

Pet. Not pets. Matriarch. Sit down and do a cost and benefit analysis of what you're leaving on the table without matriarch. It's actually pretty significant, because all of the bonuses and passives are (surprise, surprise) designed to make our class stronger.

On the other hand, it's a stupid pet that gets itself killed. I swear mine is a siege circle seeking missile, and Im working on a build without it for PVP.

With the new expansion coming, I suspect pets are going to be even more buffed/important because of the incoming Necromancer class. They're adding a class that summons dead pets, like it or not we are probably getting shoved in the pet direction too.

PhoenixGrey · March 2019

Minalan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Sorry. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that wants the instant stun and damage back on rune cage.

Sorc is competitive this patch, and feels just about right for the first time in I can't remember when. It's not overpowered, and the only people complaining about it are non pet sorcs.

Sorry pet haters, but you will perform less than optimal when you ignore a full third of your class toolkit and passives. What other class does that? Sorc could easily run without a pet before because we were ridiculously overtuned. Now we're not.

Just... Don't bring pets to a duel, they aren't balanced in the tiny box boundary.

Or. Damage OR stun. And I think that's not asking for too much.
Pets mandatory? Uh-huh. And how does PvE fit into that assumption? When's the last time high-end guilds asked you to use your full class arsenal, pets, two of them, because that's supposedly your class identity? More over, pets are just two skills. TWO. Well, and an ultimate. Are we now balancing Nightblades around Malevolent Offering? Ripping off selfheals from all other NB skills to force you into using that weird one skill? Ugh.
No, you're just happy non-pet sorcs have been beaten down. Don't come up with some BS ideology that holds no water, just to hide that.

Cage never needed the damage, and because of the range and effectiveness it needed some kind of counter. That being said, cage is still amazing when used against perma-blockers.

Pet. Not pets. Matriarch. Sit down and do a cost and benefit analysis of what you're leaving on the table without matriarch. It's actually pretty significant, because all of the bonuses and passives are (surprise, surprise) designed to make our class stronger.

On the other hand, it's a stupid pet that gets itself killed. I swear mine is a siege circle seeking missile, and Im working on a build without it for PVP.

With the new expansion coming, I suspect pets are going to be even more buffed/important because of the incoming Necromancer class. They're adding a class that summons dead pets, like it or not we are probably getting shoved in the pet direction too.

Rune cage did its job to counter the swift meta. I believe many sorc mains stopped playing the class in wolf hunter before the swift nerf. Not needed now but we need a viable class cc option as there are none.

cpuScientist · March 2019

Lord-Otto wrote: »

No Frags?
=O

Ooops yeah frag of course bread and butter right there haha

cpuScientist · March 2019

Minalan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Sorry. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that wants the instant stun and damage back on rune cage.

Sorc is competitive this patch, and feels just about right for the first time in I can't remember when. It's not overpowered, and the only people complaining about it are non pet sorcs.

Sorry pet haters, but you will perform less than optimal when you ignore a full third of your class toolkit and passives. What other class does that? Sorc could easily run without a pet before because we were ridiculously overtuned. Now we're not.

Just... Don't bring pets to a duel, they aren't balanced in the tiny box boundary.

Or. Damage OR stun. And I think that's not asking for too much.
Pets mandatory? Uh-huh. And how does PvE fit into that assumption? When's the last time high-end guilds asked you to use your full class arsenal, pets, two of them, because that's supposedly your class identity? More over, pets are just two skills. TWO. Well, and an ultimate. Are we now balancing Nightblades around Malevolent Offering? Ripping off selfheals from all other NB skills to force you into using that weird one skill? Ugh.
No, you're just happy non-pet sorcs have been beaten down. Don't come up with some BS ideology that holds no water, just to hide that.

Cage never needed the damage, and because of the range and effectiveness it needed some kind of counter. That being said, cage is still amazing when used against perma-blockers.

Pet. Not pets. Matriarch. Sit down and do a cost and benefit analysis of what you're leaving on the table without matriarch. It's actually pretty significant, because all of the bonuses and passives are (surprise, surprise) designed to make our class stronger.

On the other hand, it's a stupid pet that gets itself killed. I swear mine is a siege circle seeking missile, and Im working on a build without it for PVP.

With the new expansion coming, I suspect pets are going to be even more buffed/important because of the incoming Necromancer class. They're adding a class that summons dead pets, like it or not we are probably getting shoved in the pet direction too.

Yeah I would never want cage to be what it was in summerset, I was on the forums trying to get that nerfed. Though now it is a very silly stun it takes 1.2 seconds ok cool, but does nothing else it hardly lands it needs a good secondary like every other class stun.

Pets aren't a third of the class 3/18 skills are pets they are 1/6th BUT yeah you're crazy if you dare leave that thing on the table, health Regen a heal and strong damage. It's too good not to use.

My point exactly with the new patch pets will take EVEN more center stage. Hopefully necro pets are non targetable. But yes the class has been forced more and more into the direction of pets and those who don't like it (alot dare I say most even) just have to either use em or jump ship to another class. Also sorcs, besides cagemaggedon we're not over tuned.

Lord-Otto · March 2019

Minalan wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

MagSorc has now been forced into a new meta once again. That changes completely how they play. ZOS does this then nerfs the thing we were forced into and then gives us something else OP but 1 dimensional and nerfs that. Ever since the removal of the frag stun Sorc has been going down hill.

MagSorc at this moment using the matriarch and atro is unbelievably strong. Really hard to kill incredible damage output. Burst heals 2 shields and if your opponent fights you in the atro even better. HOWEVER this cannot last this playstyle is over tuned and has become a new meta and thus will be complained about and nerfed.

Now that sorc vs say a healing ward sorc perhaps using meteor or soul assault the difference in damage tankiness and healing is substantial. That version of a sorc is basically on the same level as a magBlade this patch. Some can make it work obviously but they would be MUCH stronger using at the very least the matriarch.

ZOS should have never taken the stun off frag or taken the heal off ward. These changes have made sorcs 1 dimensional and overly reliant on pets. Now I can and have made it work without. But it's silly to play as one without pets.

My problem is this will be nerfed as it should be. And ZOS will once again hurt PvE sorcs in the process.

Put the stun BACK or the damage back on rune cage and the heal back on ward. Or make wards pop alot sooner. 2-3 seconds.

Sorry. I have a hard time taking anyone seriously that wants the instant stun and damage back on rune cage.

Sorc is competitive this patch, and feels just about right for the first time in I can't remember when. It's not overpowered, and the only people complaining about it are non pet sorcs.

Sorry pet haters, but you will perform less than optimal when you ignore a full third of your class toolkit and passives. What other class does that? Sorc could easily run without a pet before because we were ridiculously overtuned. Now we're not.

Just... Don't bring pets to a duel, they aren't balanced in the tiny box boundary.

Or. Damage OR stun. And I think that's not asking for too much.
Pets mandatory? Uh-huh. And how does PvE fit into that assumption? When's the last time high-end guilds asked you to use your full class arsenal, pets, two of them, because that's supposedly your class identity? More over, pets are just two skills. TWO. Well, and an ultimate. Are we now balancing Nightblades around Malevolent Offering? Ripping off selfheals from all other NB skills to force you into using that weird one skill? Ugh.
No, you're just happy non-pet sorcs have been beaten down. Don't come up with some BS ideology that holds no water, just to hide that.

Cage never needed the damage, and because of the range and effectiveness it needed some kind of counter. That being said, cage is still amazing when used against perma-blockers.

Pet. Not pets. Matriarch. Sit down and do a cost and benefit analysis of what you're leaving on the table without matriarch. It's actually pretty significant, because all of the bonuses and passives are (surprise, surprise) designed to make our class stronger.

On the other hand, it's a stupid pet that gets itself killed. I swear mine is a siege circle seeking missile, and Im working on a build without it for PVP.

With the new expansion coming, I suspect pets are going to be even more buffed/important because of the incoming Necromancer class. They're adding a class that summons dead pets, like it or not we are probably getting shoved in the pet direction too.

Ah, okay, that sounds a bit different now.

Rune Cage didn't need the instant damage, I can agree. But it needed SOMETHING to help your burst damage so you could drop the Master staff. In Summerset, you could finally use Force Pulse again, giving you a chance against DKs. That is balance, too! And you could have actually useful two set boni on your front staff! You can't just pidgeonhole a class into one item and call it balanced, no. ZOS could have given Cage a DoT or Breech or something to keep ot viable, but no, they went NUTS on the nerfhammer and that skill has since pretty much vanished. That's just a balancing failure, period.
It can drop block, yup. But you're not getting anything from that. Your burst is too low with it to kill someone. It could at the very least combo with Meteor, but since Wrobel just couldn't get enough back then, that combo stopped working since it got the ridiculous warning sign. Sure wish Fear or Fossilize had one...

I've constructed a pet build for Wrathstone. Comparing it to the non-pet version, it boils down to numbers vs slots. Sure, the health, heal and access to Necropotence sound tempting. But with TWO slots you're sacrificing, a cost that NO OTHER CLASS has to pay, something stays behind. I narrowed the choice down to execute, defensive buff or sustain. If you were running Elemental Drain, sustain and damage, too. That's not really incentivizing a player to use a certain class skill, is it? Getting punished for it?
And as you pointed out, pets are still stupid. The Twilight is cute, at least. But that doesn't help that she gets stuck, attacks the wrong targets, gets obliterated by siege or stray arrows, and so on. Point is, pets are terribly designed in this game and there is a reason most people reject them. ZOS better fix the problems (unlikely) or don't try to push us even more towards them.

Beardimus · March 2019

Gunna throw it out there, I'm actually happy with the pet changes. I've had a full dedicated PvE 4 pet pet build (Healer & DD) since launch, and the changes are just cool for her. (admittedly i know I'm niche in my dedication there lol)

also rocked the twilight on my PvP main since Nerfmire for heals (Clannfear tested too, run him on NA) and again its the happiest I've felt since 2017 so this is welcome gain. Not perfect, and a pure class BoL heal would have been my first choice but the pros and cons of a twilight (passives, los, side damage against pet dying no heal, dumb ass wandering off, health isnt huge it dies, siege magnet)

Only played 30 mins on each and still unsure about losing more execute burst in PvP but will see. First time ive not stressed a patch as a sorc for about 18 months......

Emma_Overload · March 2019

Illuvatarr wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Here's an odd opinion. Don't buff this class any more. We've had it with the nerf rollercoaster. It's not fun.

Instead, focus on small, meaningful quality of life improvements.

Bastion: this does nothing with the health cap. Shattering blows does. Fix that. We have an unbalanced CP working against all of us currently.

Streak: please get rid of the pause/delay after a steak. Especially when going downhill, the stop and drop is annoying and lethal.

Overload: given the current low damage, the clunky, difficult targeting and super-slow projectile speed is no longer warranted. Make it a tad faster, and it should be easier to hit with, like any ranged skill.

Bound Aegis: still not worth a slot, not that we have any to spare. Perhaps a bonus to health as well as Magicka? It's conjured heavy armor, it has to be double slotted, it needs to be stronger.

Minalan wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Here's an odd opinion. Don't buff this class any more. We've had it with the nerf rollercoaster. It's not fun.

Instead, focus on small, meaningful quality of life improvements.

Bastion: this does nothing with the health cap. Shattering blows does. Fix that. We have an unbalanced CP working against all of us currently.

Streak: please get rid of the pause/delay after a steak. Especially when going downhill, the stop and drop is annoying and lethal.

Overload: given the current low damage, the clunky, difficult targeting and super-slow projectile speed is no longer warranted. Make it a tad faster, and it should be easier to hit with, like any ranged skill.

Bound Aegis: still not worth a slot, not that we have any to spare. Perhaps a bonus to health as well as Magicka? It's conjured heavy armor, it has to be double slotted, it needs to be stronger.

Some good points there. We aren't in a place where we need huge buffs I'm with that and actually a few small incremental changes would be sweet.

Bang on with Bound Aegis, its a hard business case to slot it vs Inner Light and there's certainly no way to slot then both without giving Frag its cc back to save a slot. We've lost a slot since ward Nerf to boundless, or we've lost a damage / regen helm with Chudan, likewise 2ndary mitigation gone with well fitted to impen and the majority of our 5 skill burst is doable...

Gives us a few QoL changes at least ZOS

I think Aegis should be a viable alternative to running a pet. It should get the same health bonus as having a pet from the passive and provide more straight up armor than the minor buffs it has now on activation.

Right now the best sorc builds all use matriarch and necro, we can really use another option for more Magicka and health without slotting a pet. It's not a buff, just an alternative with some armor instead of a burst heal.

I had an animosity group run over me with an ulti dump. I activated bound aegis and blocked all 8 of their or however many folks dps burst and was at half health. (With ice staff on backbar)

It’s passive effects (which add about 300 spell damage if you have the necro/shacklebreaker magicka on a pts Altmer of roughly 40k magicka) should apply to both bars but the activated ability should last 20 seconds as opposed to 3. It’s insanely good but the problem is there is no room for it on our bars due to the dispersion of our core abilities.

Great point. This spell would be a lot more useful if it was a proper 20-30 second buff.

Lord-Otto · March 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

Gunna throw it out there, I'm actually happy with the pet changes. I've had a full dedicated PvE 4 pet pet build (Healer & DD) since launch, and the changes are just cool for her. (admittedly i know I'm niche in my dedication there lol)

also rocked the twilight on my PvP main since Nerfmire for heals (Clannfear tested too, run him on NA) and again its the happiest I've felt since 2017 so this is welcome gain. Not perfect, and a pure class BoL heal would have been my first choice but the pros and cons of a twilight (passives, los, side damage against pet dying no heal, dumb ass wandering off, health isnt huge it dies, siege magnet)

Only played 30 mins on each and still unsure about losing more execute burst in PvP but will see. First time ive not stressed a patch as a sorc for about 18 months......

That's because classes were nearly untouched with this patch, it was all racials.
Just wait and see when the next class balancing comes along! Wouldn't be surprised to see shields have only half resistance values in Cyro, because some people are still crying about 'em here. x'D Oh, and a Nightblade buff in some form or another. Just you wait and see!
(^_-)

cpuScientist · March 2019

Beardimus wrote: »

Gunna throw it out there, I'm actually happy with the pet changes. I've had a full dedicated PvE 4 pet pet build (Healer & DD) since launch, and the changes are just cool for her. (admittedly i know I'm niche in my dedication there lol)

also rocked the twilight on my PvP main since Nerfmire for heals (Clannfear tested too, run him on NA) and again its the happiest I've felt since 2017 so this is welcome gain. Not perfect, and a pure class BoL heal would have been my first choice but the pros and cons of a twilight (passives, los, side damage against pet dying no heal, dumb ass wandering off, health isnt huge it dies, siege magnet)

Only played 30 mins on each and still unsure about losing more execute burst in PvP but will see. First time ive not stressed a patch as a sorc for about 18 months......

saaaame I love the pets in PvE it is a great direction just the twilight is needed. I hope they don't Nerf it because sorc pve is competitive again with Breton and twilight damage. I just fear they will because Everytime they buff sorcs into a corner they take the rug away.

But for pve I am getting 53 solo with non BIS gear and heavy attacks. If I went and got BIS I could push that alot higher. It's fun. I make sure to not just spam light attacks I use pulse as well because I see so many pet sorcs just heavy attack and their are mechanics that need to die quick and heavies don't cut it, further if you have 100% sustain you are leaving damage on the table

cpuScientist · March 2019

Ok real quick stamSorc needs morphs like a melee frag, clanfear to keep it's current heal but do damage on the scale of the heal matriarch and be based in physical. And then Stam overload&atro a combination or all of these helps stamSorc it's already not bad this would really help it. And some form of snare immunity that doesn't apply to magSorcs so maybe in hurricane or something. Obligatory stamSorc ranting out of the way.

On to magSorc it is in a good spot now with pets, ZOS's dream of pets have come true they are now great in pve and PvP. Mainly the matriarch and atro for PvP and then all of em for PvE. BUT there are a few pain points and things that need cleaning up.
1. Rune cage is at it's worst right now and not worth a slot on bar except for the existence of wings. It needs to do damage in break like it was before but retain the dodge time to keep it balanced. This allows it to take the spot of sat an execute or ele drain/inner light without making those builds just weaker vs a master staff.
2. Overload is bad, here's why. People see the damage it does and think it's great! But they forget it does NOT add to your light attack damage it replaces it. So what you are getting is just kinda stronger light attacks. It is not good for pve it is just passable in PvP just passable. I would like to suggest it cost 15 and can be cast at 75 and is up the whole ultimate you have so it is useful in pve as it would work with architect/warmachine. Further the more ultimate you have when casting it the more attacks you get with it. So if you cast it at 300 you get 20 weaves at 75 it's 5. Further it be non reflectable as it is an ultimate and be given a Stam version. Making overload viable in PvE would allow pet and non pet builds to have a home in the class and would help the biggest sorc pain point SUSTAIN. As is it is a dead ultimate. (Some love it but they are WRONG! and don't take into account that it replaces light attacks)

MagSorc is in a nice spot finally for the most part sustain being the biggest issue, and barspace stuns being secondary. But it's good just clean it up a little to make the class more enjoyable and streamlined and you will have perfected it. StamSorc still needs to be given SOMETHING.