Maintenance for the week of March 25:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – March 28, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)

OILS NOT SHIELDABLE AND DOING 18K DMG PER TICK

  • sha-ext
    sha-ext
    ✭✭✭
    Please ZOS, that is awesome, perfect against Zergs and it makes the Game really hard, good, i made afew ap less as we did manage lesser Keep takes last Night but, on the other Hand, we defended really good. I would love to have some proper challenge, PVP is far too easy nowadays

    this makes PvP an even easier game. use a siege and click. done. what is skillful about that?
  • technohic
    technohic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    sha-ext wrote: »
    Please ZOS, that is awesome, perfect against Zergs and it makes the Game really hard, good, i made afew ap less as we did manage lesser Keep takes last Night but, on the other Hand, we defended really good. I would love to have some proper challenge, PVP is far too easy nowadays

    this makes PvP an even easier game. use a siege and click. done. what is skillful about that?

    There were plenty of times for actual fighting for me last night. This pretty much just effects keep sieges where I do think siege and counter siege should be more important.

    That said; I would not advocate after just 1 day saying "This is fine. Leave it." I'd be ok with seeing how the week plays out and adjusting gradually back rather than all the way.
  • Bosov
    Bosov
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jameliel wrote: »
    Update: Unfortunately this isn't something we're able to hotfix, but we're trying to get the fix into Monday's incremental patch.

    Thanks for
    Bosov wrote: »
    I wonder if the people who want the siege change to stay like this are also the players who use snipe. Press one button over and over and get big rewards (kills) without taking any risk because you are in a safe spot.

    Zos made this whole combat system and still people who just want to click.. not even point and click but only click.

    I made a pure sniper, and its crystal clear to me you have no idea of how to play one at all. Since you think there is some magical safe spot, and it's simply pressing one button to kill everyone, then make a sniper and video yourself doing it. Low health noobs with no buffs and the wrong armor go down quick, but how many consistent players have such noob builds? The majority of people know how to break free, dodge roll and heal right away. Knowing when to snipe, use other attacks and mix in your melee is crucial to getting kills.

    Back on topic, I enjoy playing my sniper as much as I enjoy some other builds. I do not approve of the current siege damage fiasco. While siege should do more damage than it did last patch, it's way overboard right now. Sure it's fun the first time you pour oil on someone, or blast them with a cold fire ballista. Beyond that it's simply unbalanced. Not that my opinion matters since I play less and less. Your assumption about legit snipers is wrong though.

    Okay you got me. Sniping is hard... when you compare it to dropping oil on someone and doing 42k damage in 3 ticks.

    Pew pew
    Xbox One - EU - GT : Bosov
    PC - EU - @Bosov91

    ESO Highight :
    https://twitter.com/SlashLurk/status/895068339273310208

  • Feanor
    Feanor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    technohic wrote: »
    sha-ext wrote: »
    Please ZOS, that is awesome, perfect against Zergs and it makes the Game really hard, good, i made afew ap less as we did manage lesser Keep takes last Night but, on the other Hand, we defended really good. I would love to have some proper challenge, PVP is far too easy nowadays

    this makes PvP an even easier game. use a siege and click. done. what is skillful about that?

    There were plenty of times for actual fighting for me last night. This pretty much just effects keep sieges where I do think siege and counter siege should be more important.

    That said; I would not advocate after just 1 day saying "This is fine. Leave it." I'd be ok with seeing how the week plays out and adjusting gradually back rather than all the way.

    Were you around last time when they buffed Siege? It is and was absurd, back then and now.
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    technohic wrote: »
    sha-ext wrote: »
    Please ZOS, that is awesome, perfect against Zergs and it makes the Game really hard, good, i made afew ap less as we did manage lesser Keep takes last Night but, on the other Hand, we defended really good. I would love to have some proper challenge, PVP is far too easy nowadays

    this makes PvP an even easier game. use a siege and click. done. what is skillful about that?

    There were plenty of times for actual fighting for me last night. This pretty much just effects keep sieges where I do think siege and counter siege should be more important.

    That said; I would not advocate after just 1 day saying "This is fine. Leave it." I'd be ok with seeing how the week plays out and adjusting gradually back rather than all the way.

    lol he doesn't remember that dropping siege steals a GCD and CC attempts on you stop you from firing siege/getting off it.

    Don't clump in stupid, and don't let that seige warrior fire.
    Edited by Minno on February 26, 2019 4:10PM
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Neoauspex
    Neoauspex
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just keep one campaign this way, then all the pvdooring and rotational keep-swapping can continue in the AP farming campaign. Make siege cost more AP if necessary.
  • technohic
    technohic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Feanor wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    sha-ext wrote: »
    Please ZOS, that is awesome, perfect against Zergs and it makes the Game really hard, good, i made afew ap less as we did manage lesser Keep takes last Night but, on the other Hand, we defended really good. I would love to have some proper challenge, PVP is far too easy nowadays

    this makes PvP an even easier game. use a siege and click. done. what is skillful about that?

    There were plenty of times for actual fighting for me last night. This pretty much just effects keep sieges where I do think siege and counter siege should be more important.

    That said; I would not advocate after just 1 day saying "This is fine. Leave it." I'd be ok with seeing how the week plays out and adjusting gradually back rather than all the way.

    Were you around last time when they buffed Siege? It is and was absurd, back then and now.

    Yes. Thats why I am saying they should watch it. it clearly is not being adjusted at all until Monday, so might as well see what it looks like. We are at opposite extremes either way. 1 the siege is so non-threatening except for complete lapses of judgement to stand in it too long. Now; it might be a bit much. I also think there is some health desyncs going on making it a little worse than it actually is. It just doesn't need to be completely whacked back down.

    And they really need to look at making it different for non-CP. not sure how its going there but when I played on Azuras, I know it really hurt before.
  • Beaverton
    Beaverton
    ✭✭✭
    Thanks guys, confirming we've seen this and are investigating.

    Please keep in mind the affect this has in the no CP campaigns where players don't have the extra mitigation. This is especially problematic in Kyne where new players trying out PvP maybe haven't learned how to avoid the big red circles yet. 2 ticks=death for most players so unless you have a purge bot RIP.

    Sorry if this has been brought up already-I didn't have time to read the 6 pages that have already been posted on the subject.

    Chook (fill in the blank) or Chookana (likewise): I learn more by dying so teach me some more!
  • DirkRavenclaw
    DirkRavenclaw
    ✭✭✭✭
    Im in DIG, we had last Night Fights to take Keeps that lasted 30 mins,45 mins and more, it was awesome, you have to plan a lot more. Normally i just stay at my Siege, get hit once then twice, go a second off siege, heal and back to siege. Now i hace to jump of siege after every careful shot, get the hell out with dodge and see if i can place another shot, its simply far more dynamic gameplay. I dont advocate for Coldharbour Balista Bolt doing 29.4k DMG that is a tad too much but make it so that this one clicking stops, we usually take Keeps in 3 to 5 mins, now it actually needs some work and is hard. Also, was it a performance increase in General or was this the reason for there beeing far less lag in Cyro last Night, even with a poplocked Vivec Campaign?
    Council Member of AtWritsEnd, Member of LoneWolfeHelp, Donor of GhostSeaTradingCO., Factor of EastEmpireTradingCO.,HonourGuard of ´DominionImperialGuard(DIG/PVP)

    Master Crafter including Jewelry, i craft for Mats and Donation, always happy to help, if Im not in the Middle of PVP, i play since around 14 Months
  • technohic
    technohic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    technohic wrote: »
    sha-ext wrote: »
    Please ZOS, that is awesome, perfect against Zergs and it makes the Game really hard, good, i made afew ap less as we did manage lesser Keep takes last Night but, on the other Hand, we defended really good. I would love to have some proper challenge, PVP is far too easy nowadays

    this makes PvP an even easier game. use a siege and click. done. what is skillful about that?

    There were plenty of times for actual fighting for me last night. This pretty much just effects keep sieges where I do think siege and counter siege should be more important.

    That said; I would not advocate after just 1 day saying "This is fine. Leave it." I'd be ok with seeing how the week plays out and adjusting gradually back rather than all the way.

    lol he doesn't remember that dropping siege steals a GCD and CC attempts on you stop you from firing siege/getting off it.

    Don't clump in stupid, and don't let that seige warrior fire.

    Haha I died to it twice last night and pretty much in the same fight...because I was being an idiot standing at a breach, jumping up and down to get just enough LOS to be hitting people with POTL while they were taking our counter siege. Im not vamp so I was surviving and cleansing in between, until I saw a cleanse message pop up, and I was like "Huh? Im not taking any damage right now.' Then BOOM! Dead. Was laughing as a guildie revived me, and then before I could get back in the safety, something must have clipped me as I then died just as I got there. I was standing in stupid.

  • sha-ext
    sha-ext
    ✭✭✭
    It is nice that you cite single encounters where you had fun with this.
    But this will be horrible in no-cp.
    and nobody will ever take a keep when it has an organised defense, especially not homekeeps.

    Sieges hit harder in no-cp already and they can take it up a notch, but this is insane.
  • ErMurazor
    ErMurazor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZoS totally Lost it. Keep it as it is!!!!!!!!!! You are aware ppl dying like flies? IF this is How You want PvP to be im out of here
  • TBois
    TBois
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZOS, rewarding boring gameplay since 2014.

    If seige was more interesting to use, maybe I would be up for more seige damage. As I think it would be interesting for keeps be a lot harder to take and most of the fighting moves to towns, resources, and outposts, but as it is now seige is just too moving to use. Setup, point, click, it's just so much less fun than fighting with my skills.
    Current Guilds: Fantasia
    Former Guilds: Decibel, Hagnado, Lemon Party

    PC/NA
    T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
    An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
    Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
    Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD

    Youtube
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm just dying to know how this happens accidentally...QA is putting in work.
  • Zippy81
    Zippy81
    ✭✭✭
    Different siege weapons should vary in power. Oils hit only in 1 place - aoe could be smaller perhaps but able to nuke a ram and players under it. Balistas same, smaller aoe. Catapults are bigger aoe so should be weaker.
    Besides, easier to run away for dodge rolling Bosmers. :smiley:
    Kind regards,
    Zippy
  • Neoauspex
    Neoauspex
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    sha-ext wrote: »
    It is nice that you cite single encounters where you had fun with this.
    But this will be horrible in no-cp.
    and nobody will ever take a keep when it has an organised defense, especially not homekeeps.

    Sieges hit harder in no-cp already and they can take it up a notch, but this is insane.

    So let's fix it for no-CP and Shor but keep it in Vivec for the performance boost if nothing else. Everybody wins.
  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It’s way too strong rn no argument. People are just firing siege instead of fighting. It makes small scale keep takes almost impossible.
    Edited by Vapirko on February 26, 2019 4:40PM
  • angeleda
    angeleda
    ✭✭✭✭
    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    I hope this was an early April Fool's joke because i don't think any of you realize what this means.... Yes they help defend blah blah... But with that change the game has COMPLETELY turned about numbers and zero skill... Factions that have the numbers (EP (lately AD) at Sotha EU for example) can just literally kill the map at night/morning alone, take all keeps. Then log out, use half the people end defend forever cause that damage even 1-2 people can kill 2-3x times (including how pretty much guards do more dmg than zerglings)...

    Also, smaller groups or groups that are outnumbered and retreat in a tower... 1 siege and dead...

    You are ACTIVELY encouraging (at least there were SOME counters up until now) more zergs (for bad/incompetent players) or people to leave the game (for smallscale/solo players) which will only create a very mundane pvp enviroment of sieging keeps and thats it while creating lag due to the huge numbers of players at one place.

    And of course any "tactical movement" of sieging a keep away from the main action to decentralize the "lag" and the faction stacking is also out of the question since with that siege power, even a late defender can wipe 5-6 people (guards+one shots from sieges)

    The most worrying thing is that you actually intended for something like that??? Who even suggests or tests that and approved it??

    PS. OR MAKE THEM NOT STACK AS DMG!
    Edited by angeleda on February 26, 2019 5:12PM
  • Ackwalan
    Ackwalan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    sha-ext wrote: »
    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    I hope you are not serious...
    You want fast paced combat? You want keep sieges? You want players to take keeps?
    Then please adjust the damage. I don't mind some sieges hurt a bit more, but remember how it was when meatbag and scattershot catapults were strong - it was very, very hard to take a keep against decent defenders...

    As it should be.

  • Recremen
    Recremen
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    I hope by "discussing a bit" it's more of a "ha ha wouldn't it be crazy if we just kept it lololol" and not a "we, as serious gameplay designers, think this is a good idea" sort of thing. Massive siege damage is always bad for PvP, unless your design plan involves everyone turtling in keeps in giant groups waiting for another faction to show up and wipe them immediately with a barage of 20 siege weapons. Pre-patch siege was already forcing people to spam heals, purges, and siege shields just to survive it, and even then it was contingent on your supports' magicka pool reserves. If that's not enough of a reaction for some point-and-click heroism then I really don't know what is, since the other option is just "die 100% of the time".

    Like really, what are people supposed to do if they want to take a keep? Siege multiple walls? That already happens, so keeping high siege damage isn't exactly a corrective measure, and defenders can just split the siege to defend the multiple walls. And then what about when you're finally pushing into the inner to get the flags? We already have to heal and purge our way through the waiting oils/scattershots/meatbags, PLUS worry about the groups waiting in the wings to bomb with actual player skills. What's the game plan now, just always die when trying to take flags? Wait for your opponent to get bored and leave Cyrodiil before pushing in? It does not make any sense to me.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • xxthir13enxx
    xxthir13enxx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I miss the Invisible Cold Fire days....
    RIP you are missed :disappointed:
  • Neoauspex
    Neoauspex
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Keep siege strong (for one campaign). Then turn the towns and new outposts into "siege factories", 2 for each faction. If your faction owns both home siege factories, your siege limit is 20 at a single keep. If you own one factory, your siege limit is 10 and if you own neither your siege limit is 5.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno
  • Feanor
    Feanor
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Neoauspex wrote: »
    Keep siege strong (for one campaign). Then turn the towns and new outposts into "siege factories", 2 for each faction. If your faction owns both home siege factories, your siege limit is 20 at a single keep. If you own one factory, your siege limit is 10 and if you own neither your siege limit is 5.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Elder Artillery Online.

    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Neoauspex
    Neoauspex
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Feanor wrote: »
    Neoauspex wrote: »
    Keep siege strong (for one campaign). Then turn the towns and new outposts into "siege factories", 2 for each faction. If your faction owns both home siege factories, your siege limit is 20 at a single keep. If you own one factory, your siege limit is 10 and if you own neither your siege limit is 5.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Elder Artillery Online.

    Not in the other two campaigns, imperial city, or at the towns promoting small scale combat...
  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really don't mind siege being strong, if there are ways to mitigate it beyond simply not standing in it. Some fights have an incredible amount of defensive siege and there is literally nowhere for offensive siege to be except in the defensive siege AoEs. Often, even if I wanted to move to another location the siege cap prevents me from being able to set up enough new siege to be effective against a second wall.
    Siege is already strong against people who can't/won't mitigate it with siege shields, strong heals and purges. Many disorganized groups die to siege, and that's as it should be, but everyone cheering overpowered siege are looking for a way to make disorganized beat organized by making siege a death sentence with no counter play.
  • Minno
    Minno
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    I really don't mind siege being strong, if there are ways to mitigate it beyond simply not standing in it. Some fights have an incredible amount of defensive siege and there is literally nowhere for offensive siege to be except in the defensive siege AoEs. Often, even if I wanted to move to another location the siege cap prevents me from being able to set up enough new siege to be effective against a second wall.
    Siege is already strong against people who can't/won't mitigate it with siege shields, strong heals and purges. Many disorganized groups die to siege, and that's as it should be, but everyone cheering overpowered siege are looking for a way to make disorganized beat organized by making siege a death sentence with no counter play.

    Id like to see that video showing a random clump zerg "defeat" a well organized ball group running purges/dedicated healers with only siege lol.

    Edit:
    because they couldn't on murkmire and they wont on live.
    Edited by Minno on February 26, 2019 6:01PM
    Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
    - Guild-lead for MV
    - Filthy Casual
  • Sureshawt
    Sureshawt
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    I'm just dying to know how this happens accidentally...QA is putting in work.

    Hell they can even get a fundamental concept like combat flags to work properly so nothing surprises me anymore. Combat flags have been properly implemented in other MMOs going back decades.

  • Sandman929
    Sandman929
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Minno wrote: »
    Sandman929 wrote: »
    I really don't mind siege being strong, if there are ways to mitigate it beyond simply not standing in it. Some fights have an incredible amount of defensive siege and there is literally nowhere for offensive siege to be except in the defensive siege AoEs. Often, even if I wanted to move to another location the siege cap prevents me from being able to set up enough new siege to be effective against a second wall.
    Siege is already strong against people who can't/won't mitigate it with siege shields, strong heals and purges. Many disorganized groups die to siege, and that's as it should be, but everyone cheering overpowered siege are looking for a way to make disorganized beat organized by making siege a death sentence with no counter play.

    Id like to see that video showing a random clump zerg "defeat" a well organized ball group running purges/dedicated healers with only siege lol.

    Edit:
    because they couldn't on murkmire and they wont on live.

    I'm not sure which video you're talking about, but I don't think what you described would, could or should happen, although the siege on live PC sounds like it might be possible.
  • Akgurd
    Akgurd
    ✭✭✭
    The new siege is absolutely great.

    Forces group to be more strategical on which keep or an outpost to assault and where to start the siege.
    Aknight
  •  Czirne
    Czirne
    ✭✭✭✭
    Ackwalan wrote: »
    sha-ext wrote: »
    I've been in cyro, and personally I like it and kinda wish they would just leave it. The battles were crazy and watching - and participating in the new and far more interesting keep take challenges was really fun. Plus keeps weren't flipping every 5 seconds. Fine by me.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno maybe tell them not to fix this too much yus?

    Yeah, this is actually something we're discussing a bit. No promises, but we'll see what happens.

    I hope you are not serious...
    You want fast paced combat? You want keep sieges? You want players to take keeps?
    Then please adjust the damage. I don't mind some sieges hurt a bit more, but remember how it was when meatbag and scattershot catapults were strong - it was very, very hard to take a keep against decent defenders...

    As it should be.

    If siege damage is there to stay, zos needs to introduce ladders and allow poeple to climb the walls.

    EDIT: To clarify - I think that this double siege damage is more realistic, but its too effective while defending keep from game balance point of view. Adding a ladders to climb the wall would allow attackers get on walls and try to burn sieges.

    Of course there has to be some limitation on ladders, otherwise everyone will just build ladder and rams and trebuchets will not be used at all. I would say limit 3-6 ladder per keep, and it takes 5-15 second to actually climb up the ladder, to prevent attackers swarm walls like ants.
    Edited by Czirne on February 26, 2019 6:29PM
    I believe in lagless Cyrodiil!
Sign In or Register to comment.