Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Who in the high holy heck is the Bosmer class rep, anyways, and how do we recall them to get someone else to represent us?
IwakuraLain42 wrote: »They (the class reps) did address that topic, it's just that ZOS has chosen to ignore their feedback (you can read the meeting notes in one of the pinned messages). The answer (that they really couldn't been bothered to include in the latest patch note ...) is basically just a raised middle finger to the all Bosmer players that care about their race identity.
They completely ignored that the major concern was that Bosmer were trading their stealth for a buff that has no utility outside of PVP. Bosmer are the only race that have a passive exclusive to PVP."Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
IwakuraLain42 wrote: »They (the class reps) did address that topic, it's just that ZOS has chosen to ignore their feedback (you can read the meeting notes in one of the pinned messages). The answer (that they really couldn't been bothered to include in the latest patch note ...) is basically just a raised middle finger to the all Bosmer players that care about their race identity.
That's what I find most frustrating. (from the notes)They completely ignored that the major concern was that Bosmer were trading their stealth for a buff that has no utility outside of PVP. Bosmer are the only race that have a passive exclusive to PVP."Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race."
By their own admission, stealth detection is useless in PVE, yet instead of acknowledging that mistake, ZOS doubled down and continued to tinker with the rest of the passive, adding a nonsensical and highly situational penetration buff that no one asked for.
Edit: [They meaning the devs, not class reps]
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »I don't think they understand that "hey, you'll be able to stealth exactly as well as every other non-cat race," is NOT a selling point.
Please look at the precedent of all the other Elder Scrolls games, Bosmer have always been more stealthy than every other race (except for Skyrim where Khajiit was only marginally more stealthy).
@ZOS_Lawrence_Schick
I feel more like they pee'd in our Wheaties.Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.
I don't follow zos on twitter or reddit or anything. Has there been any mention of another pass at the bosmer racials beyond this site?
Dalsinthus wrote: »I don't follow zos on twitter or reddit or anything. Has there been any mention of another pass at the bosmer racials beyond this site?
I've been following this really closely - I'm super salty about the removal of the stealth passive. I have not seen ZOS comment outside of the class rep notes and patch notes.
If zos going to make a statement like that, it had better be in the current patch not in some future promise. I want to see the functionality of it right now. And it had better be at most level restricted, not hidden behind a "thieves guild" or PvP skill line.
This whole "We'll fix it later" attitude would be fine if I trusted them, but with these race changes all trust is gone.
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Who in the high holy heck is the Bosmer class rep, anyways, and how do we recall them to get someone else to represent us?
TankinatorFR wrote: »Well well well...
I live the forum for a week, and when I come back, we are still in the same mess...
What a surprise.
Oh no, excuse me, there is a change ; and if you consider that changing something without improving is is great, then, this change is great...
I really don't get it.
Diversity for the sake of diversity is meaningless. Diversity for the sake of diversity that break the mean of things, that is even worse...
Bosmers are stealthy, no matters if the Khajits are too.
TankinatorFR wrote: »Well well well...
I live the forum for a week, and when I come back, we are still in the same mess...
What a surprise.
Oh no, excuse me, there is a change ; and if you consider that changing something without improving is is great, then, this change is great...
I really don't get it.
Diversity for the sake of diversity is meaningless. Diversity for the sake of diversity that break the mean of things, that is even worse...
Bosmers are stealthy, no matters if the Khajits are too.
Yeah, tell me about it. I just learned about the race changes just before I left on a cruise. And then I had to use all of my onboard minutes patrolling the forums hoping what I read about the bosmers losing stealth was a mistake.
TankinatorFR wrote: »Well well well...
I live the forum for a week, and when I come back, we are still in the same mess...
What a surprise.
Oh no, excuse me, there is a change ; and if you consider that changing something without improving is is great, then, this change is great...
I really don't get it.
Diversity for the sake of diversity is meaningless. Diversity for the sake of diversity that break the mean of things, that is even worse...
Bosmers are stealthy, no matters if the Khajits are too.
Yeah, tell me about it. I just learned about the race changes just before I left on a cruise. And then I had to use all of my onboard minutes patrolling the forums hoping what I read about the bosmers losing stealth was a mistake.
What makes you enjoy bosmer stealth? Lets talk about it.
If they want to lay the groundwork for adding counter-stealth in PVE, that's great, but you can't take away something that is useful NOW for something that maybe, possibly, might be useful later. And I have given examples where counter-stealth could be useful in an overland or dungeon situations: there's crouching archers around bandit camps, put 'em in stealth. You could have stealthed sentries in dungeons guarding the maguffin (hey dictionary, that's a word) of doom.Would it resolve things say if you gained penetration with stealth. It would bring the issue of pvp passive thing again... but hey they said someday... oneday they will make stealth meaningful in pve too.
What makes you enjoy bosmer stealth? Lets talk about it. Would it resolve things say if you gained penetration with stealth. It would bring the issue of pvp passive thing again... but hey they said someday... one day they will make stealth meaningful in pve too.
What makes you enjoy bosmer stealth? Lets talk about it. Would it resolve things say if you gained penetration with stealth. It would bring the issue of pvp passive thing again... but hey they said someday... oneday they will make stealth meaningful in pve too.
WP.S Yes I think dodge roll penetration doesn't make sense. I would take penetration while moving or staying still as more nimblenesss or focus or even maybe just adding it as a stealth mechanic is right way?
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »If they want to lay the groundwork for adding counter-stealth in PVE, that's great, but you can't take away something that is useful NOW for something that maybe, possibly, might be useful later. And I have given examples where counter-stealth could be useful in an overland or dungeon situations: there's crouching archers around bandit camps, put 'em in stealth. You could have stealthed sentries in dungeons guarding the maguffin (hey dictionary, that's a word) of doom.
And if you want to take most of the stealth away from the Khajiit and Bosmer and spread it around to everyone, that's fine so long as these two races BOTH still get a slight bonus because that's the established lore. But, it's got to be all at once. Put 1m of hiding bonus in the TG passives and 1m in the DB passives, and let 'em stack with each other and the racials; or, even better, put a 2m hiding bonus in the legerdemain skill line somewhere. Give Khajiit a 2m hiding bonus in their passive and a 1m hiding bonus to the Bosmer passive along with the detection bonus (or the other way around, there's backstory enough for it to go either way). [edit to add:] I just have always found it odd that there was no stealth boost for thieves and assassins, when they should really have something on the guild or class level for this skill. Putting a huge boost to stealth in two racial passives was a bit of a shortcut that has lasted too long. It should be a smaller boost from the racial passives, with half or more coming from a skill that is available to every race. [/edit]
I'm not a fan of the other (to me more gimmicky) things like movement speed in stealth, or bonus damage from stealth (though it was nice). It's about How Not to be Seen. There's a nice PSA from the BBC on that on the youtubes.
Just because a character sneaks does not mean they are thieves (I know bosmers "rite of theft", but lets just move on.) Players can be sneaky because they are scouts, hunters, or just explorers. A more open approach I think would be more appealing. I think it's own skill line that increases as the player attacks creatures from stealth or do other stealth related (yet non criminal) actions in game. Kind of like the sneak skill in skyrim, it grew not because the character was a thief or assassin, but because your character sneaked around.
Just because a character sneaks does not mean they are thieves (I know bosmers "rite of theft", but lets just move on.) Players can be sneaky because they are scouts, hunters, or just explorers. A more open approach I think would be more appealing. I think it's own skill line that increases as the player attacks creatures from stealth or do other stealth related (yet non criminal) actions in game. Kind of like the sneak skill in skyrim, it grew not because the character was a thief or assassin, but because your character sneaked around.
This is brilliant - the same can be said for just because a character sneaks doesn't make them a ganker. Some kind of stealth skill line - or dare I say - a ranger skill line...
Cundu_Ertur wrote: »The problem I see with the new skill line approach is that we'd be losing now to get, maybe, later. Legerdemain is not limited to thieves, it's available to everyone from the start [edit to add: it is part of the base game, no DLC required, too]. Thieves and assassins already have their own skill lines that are separate from it. Also, the skill in legerdemain is called 'improved hiding' but it doesn't actually, y'know, improve hiding. It improves moving around in hiding, but not the act of hiding itself.