Bosmer Racial change that is illogical and unnecessary

Cundu_Ertur

max_only wrote: »

Also in another thread someone pointed out

“”we kept parts of each the Wood Elf’s and the Khajiit’s version of these passives.“”

They kept no part of the Wood Elf version of this passive. Another contradiction in their own message.


I’m hoping this was a typo and they’ll get around to fixing it and all this was a bad dream.

yeah, I've been making that point over and over. I hope it sinks in.

max_only

Edit found it.

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

Greetings again everyone! Just wanted to give a quick update that we're planning on making some adjustments to the racial passives in the coming weeks on the PTS based on much of your feedback. We focused mainly on improving the identity of each race with the adjustments by either improving on key areas such as a boost to Resourceful for Argonians, or enhancing the accessibility some of the bonuses provide, such as a small redesign to Red Diamond for Imperials. Aside from numerical tweaks, new small bonuses, and slight redesigns, we have a change to the calculation for how Champion Points increase your Health, Magicka, and Stamina to make it easier to follow and impact more things that you'd expect.

Thank you again everyone for the feedback, we'll have more to share on the delivery of racial changes for Update 21 when we're ready, so keep an eye out on that Dev Tracker, and we can't wait for you all to get your hands on some of the changes!

So Bosmer have always been sneaky since the first game and this change is taking away their bonus to sneaking. This is opposite of your goal, no need to reinvent the wheel just to have something to do.

This isn’t complex really. Stealth detection is not useful. no where in pve. Even if a mechanic is shoehorned in the future, the entirety of the current content that is being sold to players today has No Use for a stealth detection passive. Detecting stealthed enemies does not apply to Pve and it should remain an active skill in pvp. Just as passive dodge was removed to promote an active need for roll dodge, so too, should stealth detect require a decision on the part of the player to send up flares (Magelight) or use AOE damage.

BlueRaven

I don’t follow or use twitter anymore, do the devs post stuff there? I am just wondering if they said anything about the stealth issue there.

Silver_Strider

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

Uryel

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Galarthor

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Who needs to sneak if you can run faster than the game can comprehend? You will mitigate most damage and NPC aggro by it simply not registering it with the game. For evidence see the speed / swift meta prior to Murkmire - which FYI was slower than the new Bosmers!

max_only

Galarthor wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Who needs to sneak if you can run faster than the game can comprehend? You will mitigate most damage and NPC aggro by it simply not registering it with the game. For evidence see the speed / swift meta prior to Murkmire - which FYI was slower than the new Bosmers!

Why fix what ain’t broke?

BlueRaven

Galarthor wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Who needs to sneak if you can run faster than the game can comprehend? You will mitigate most damage and NPC aggro by it simply not registering it with the game. For evidence see the speed / swift meta prior to Murkmire - which FYI was slower than the new Bosmers!

Oh? Have you tried doing the thief and assassin solo quests by just running fast? Can you do open world “restricted area” quests by just running fast?

And I did not know I can pick pockets while sprinting! /sarcasm

•••

There is quests and just basic game mechanics that require stealth. Just running is not going to cut it. If I could just sprint through these things I could do them on any high stam character.
Many players rolled Bosmer because of the races natural stealth abilities. Not to be cruel to those who love bosmers, but beyond the stealth mechanic, there really is just not much of a reason to roll that race. If you are not interested in stealth (or lore) there are better choices for stamina based characters.
If these changes go through there is even less of a reason to “roll” (pun not intended) a Bosmer. Just learning how to use a bow faster is not that compelling. /shrug

TheMikrobe

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

I play khajiit, so not too upset for my own character. In fact I like (or can live with) pretty much all the racial changes, but the loss of bosmer stealth is pretty much the only one I think is a bad decision. Personally I don't have a problem with khajiits and bosmers having the exact same stealth bonus, it's only one passive and the other passives make the races very different choices, but if they have to be different then I agree with this: give the bosmers increased speed when sneaking, say 25% (the same amount as slotting concealed weapon).

Silver_Strider

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I disagree. A speed boost while sneaking is fairly on par with Stealth Detection reduction in terms of PvE. Both have merits for stealing as 1 allows for more safe stealing, while the other offers more stealing via time saved. Then, in a PvP setting a speed buff while sneaking allows for far more maneuverability than being harder to find, especially when you're only an AoE away from being pulled from stealth anyways. Not to mention, a Khajiit vs Bosmer in a sneaking match, Bosmer does have 3m Stealth detection so in that specific scenario, you're only looking at a 2m stealth reduction vs movement speed while stealthed, which is pretty fair, all things considered.

Cundu_Ertur

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I disagree. A speed boost while sneaking is fairly on par with Stealth Detection reduction in terms of PvE. Both have merits for stealing as 1 allows for more safe stealing, while the other offers more stealing via time saved. Then, ina PvP setting a speed buff while sneaking allows for far more maneuverability than being harder to find, especially when you're only an AoE away from being pulled from stealth anyways. Not to mention, a Khajiit vs Bosmer in a sneaking match, Bosmer does have 3m Stealth detection so in that specific scenario, you're only looking at a 2m stealth reduction vs movement speed while stealthed, which is pretty fair, all things considered.

Does nothing for Vampire or Night's Silence Bosmer.

Stealth is the best stealth.

Wittychick42

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I disagree. A speed boost while sneaking is fairly on par with Stealth Detection reduction in terms of PvE. Both have merits for stealing as 1 allows for more safe stealing, while the other offers more stealing via time saved. Then, ina PvP setting a speed buff while sneaking allows for far more maneuverability than being harder to find, especially when you're only an AoE away from being pulled from stealth anyways. Not to mention, a Khajiit vs Bosmer in a sneaking match, Bosmer does have 3m Stealth detection so in that specific scenario, you're only looking at a 2m stealth reduction vs movement speed while stealthed, which is pretty fair, all things considered.

Does nothing for Vampire or Night's Silence Bosmer.

Stealth is the best stealth.

Ditto. Dark Stalker is an excellent Vampire passive for super speedy stealth, so as far as my build goes, the only thing I’ll lack after this change is the entire reason I made what I made to begin with. Not being easily detected while stalking for picking pockets, doing heists, etc was why I chose Bosmer

Silver_Strider

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I disagree. A speed boost while sneaking is fairly on par with Stealth Detection reduction in terms of PvE. Both have merits for stealing as 1 allows for more safe stealing, while the other offers more stealing via time saved. Then, ina PvP setting a speed buff while sneaking allows for far more maneuverability than being harder to find, especially when you're only an AoE away from being pulled from stealth anyways. Not to mention, a Khajiit vs Bosmer in a sneaking match, Bosmer does have 3m Stealth detection so in that specific scenario, you're only looking at a 2m stealth reduction vs movement speed while stealthed, which is pretty fair, all things considered.

Does nothing for Vampire or Night's Silence Bosmer.

Stealth is the best stealth.

Assuming Bosmer got the same movement speed bonus as Vampire/Night's Silence:
In the case of Night's Silence, you'd drop it and utilize Night's Mother Embrace which would essentially be the same thing as on live, minus 1 meter radius which is not that huge a difference, plus it has better stats overall
In the case of Vampire, you don't have to invest into Dark Stalker, it becomes a dead passive for Bosmer.

Neither argument is really that great.

max_only

How does the ability to detect other stealthed units help with “safe stealing”?

There aren’t any stealthed units in pve. There are Zero. In about 3 weeks the passive will change, how does stealth DETECTION benefit the current game they are currently selling currently?

Still waiting on that answer.

Even IF Elsweyr had a reason to detect stealthed mobs, how does that passive help out in the other 85% of the game? (I count a chapter as 5% and pvp as 10% lol)

Useless - literal definition, has no use, passive is useless.

TheMikrobe

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Uryel wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Why not a speed buff while sneaking?

This way, Bosmer can be speedy little thieves vs Khajjit being undetectable thieves.

That would be interesting and fit the hunter thingie... except that Bosmers won't be sneaky at all if they get JUST the speed buff while sneaky. +3m and speed bonus vs +5m for khajiits, I'm ok with that. +speed without stealth bonus would be rather meaningless.

We're gonna get Bosmers who are as adept at stealth as Orcs and Nords. That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

I disagree. A speed boost while sneaking is fairly on par with Stealth Detection reduction in terms of PvE. Both have merits for stealing as 1 allows for more safe stealing, while the other offers more stealing via time saved. Then, ina PvP setting a speed buff while sneaking allows for far more maneuverability than being harder to find, especially when you're only an AoE away from being pulled from stealth anyways. Not to mention, a Khajiit vs Bosmer in a sneaking match, Bosmer does have 3m Stealth detection so in that specific scenario, you're only looking at a 2m stealth reduction vs movement speed while stealthed, which is pretty fair, all things considered.

Does nothing for Vampire or Night's Silence Bosmer.

Stealth is the best stealth.

If you are a vampire in stealth then you "ignore the speed penalty". If you slot Concealed Weapon, "your Movement Speed while Sneaking or invisible is increased by 25%" and a vampire actually goes faster than when not in stealth (speed penalty ignored, then speed multiplied).

So if the Bosmer got a percentage-based speed increase in stealth then it would function like concealed weapon and would not conflict with vampire or night's silence. In fact if bosmer vampire had passive speed boost and slotted concealed weapon they would then move faster in crouch than if they had cast rapids and stayed standing up.

max_only wrote:

How does the ability to detect other stealthed units help with “safe stealing”?

He didn't say detection helps with stealing, he said faster movement in sneak helps with stealing. This is absolutely true, especially in Thieve's Guild heists, but also when picking the right opportunity in towns.

BlueRaven

I was talking in guild chat about this change tonight and a troubling idea came up.

So the new Wrathstone quest line will make people play the two new dungeons.

Do you think this stealth-to-detection change indicates a plan to "push" players into pvp?

max_only

BlueRaven wrote: »

I was talking in guild chat about this change tonight and a troubling idea came up.

So the new Wrathstone quest line will make people play the two new dungeons.

Do you think this stealth-to-detection change indicates a plan to "push" players into pvp?

God I hope not.

Silver_Strider

max_only wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

I was talking in guild chat about this change tonight and a troubling idea came up.

So the new Wrathstone quest line will make people play the two new dungeons.

Do you think this stealth-to-detection change indicates a plan to "push" players into pvp?

God I hope not.

I can already see it happening now that it's been mentioned. We need to get into Cloud Ruler Temple to recover some artifact relating to the Dragons and much like IC release, everyone and their mothers will be camping the entrance to troll others.

Cundu_Ertur

From the 30 Jan class rep meeting notes thread, with my reply:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Bosmer: ZOS has heard concerns about the stackable powerful movement speed. Bosmers will still get a speed boost off dodge, it just wont be as high. Bosmers will get some short damage bonus as compensation. Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before.

I fully expected the speed boost would not survive in its initial form, so that's fine. I also don't have an issue with having more of the stealth bonus move to a non-racial passive somewhere, but the problem with that is then you have a giant orc or nord moving as stealthily as a teeny tiny bosmer. I mean, seriously, look at a tall bosmer compared to a short anything else, and its pretty significant. Even if it is just a fixed 1m bonus to hiding in the base passive, or adding a stealth component to Hunter's Eye, or whatever, there should be some boost to being hidden for bosmer to reflect their lore-based cultural and physical affinity to being unnoticed. Even if it's small, even if it's less than what the khajiit get, it should be something. I'd waive the proffered damage boost to keep a boost to stealth.

max_only

As predicted, the speed boost after roll dodge is getting the hammer.

They are adding back a damage boost and that was the part that made it unbalanced in the first place.

They aren’t listening even if they are nodding their head.

anadandy

max_only wrote: »

As predicted, the speed boost after roll dodge is getting the hammer.

They are adding back a damage boost and that was the part that made it unbalanced in the first place.

They aren’t listening even if they are nodding their head.

Right? How they went from threads full of people saying that the loss of stealth was a blow to Bosmer identity and came up with "So we'll put stealth options outside of race and Bosmer can use it along with everyone else." is utterly mind boggling.

max_only

Not one of us is asking for the extra damage, just the radius reduction. And stealth DETECTION is only useful in pvp, and is never used in pve.

Also, it is fine that you can complete stealthy quests with a non-stealth race, the game would be unbalanced if it were impossible. The bottom line is that a Bosmer is not as noticeable as a Nord when crouched. Bosmer have always had a higher sneak bonus than other races, as I pointed out above. Altmer have always been better with arcane skills. These are just facts of this universe.

Finally, stealth detection is useless in pve all the time. Full stop. If they gave Orcs a passive to hug other players instead of a useful lore friendly passive I would be here about that too.

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_Gilliam
@ZOS_BrianWheeler

Please, listen to the feedback. Adding back a damage bonus will just make it harder to balance again. Stealth detection is not used in the pve portion of your game (as evidenced by your first post on racial balance changes). Furthermore, passive detection is just like passive dodge, players need to make an active choice. Please look at the precedent of all the other Elder Scrolls games, Bosmer have always been more stealthy than every other race (except for Skyrim where Khajiit was only marginally more stealthy).

@ZOS_Lawrence_Schick

BlueRaven

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

From the 30 Jan class rep meeting notes thread, with my reply:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Bosmer: ZOS has heard concerns about the stackable powerful movement speed. Bosmers will still get a speed boost off dodge, it just wont be as high. Bosmers will get some short damage bonus as compensation. Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before.

I fully expected the speed boost would not survive in its initial form, so that's fine. I also don't have an issue with having more of the stealth bonus move to a non-racial passive somewhere, but the problem with that is then you have a giant orc or nord moving as stealthily as a teeny tiny bosmer. I mean, seriously, look at a tall bosmer compared to a short anything else, and its pretty significant. Even if it is just a fixed 1m bonus to hiding in the base passive, or adding a stealth component to Hunter's Eye, or whatever, there should be some boost to being hidden for bosmer to reflect their lore-based cultural and physical affinity to being unnoticed. Even if it's small, even if it's less than what the khajiit get, it should be something. I'd waive the proffered damage boost to keep a boost to stealth.

What the actual F? I mean seriously? It's like they "hear" our concerns and just go in a totally different direction. And I am with you, I would wave the actual damage boost just to keep the stealth.

Where are these notes located?

max_only

BlueRaven wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

From the 30 Jan class rep meeting notes thread, with my reply:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Bosmer: ZOS has heard concerns about the stackable powerful movement speed. Bosmers will still get a speed boost off dodge, it just wont be as high. Bosmers will get some short damage bonus as compensation. Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before.

I fully expected the speed boost would not survive in its initial form, so that's fine. I also don't have an issue with having more of the stealth bonus move to a non-racial passive somewhere, but the problem with that is then you have a giant orc or nord moving as stealthily as a teeny tiny bosmer. I mean, seriously, look at a tall bosmer compared to a short anything else, and its pretty significant. Even if it is just a fixed 1m bonus to hiding in the base passive, or adding a stealth component to Hunter's Eye, or whatever, there should be some boost to being hidden for bosmer to reflect their lore-based cultural and physical affinity to being unnoticed. Even if it's small, even if it's less than what the khajiit get, it should be something. I'd waive the proffered damage boost to keep a boost to stealth.

What the actual F? I mean seriously? It's like they "hear" our concerns and just go in a totally different direction. And I am with you, I would wave the actual damage boost just to keep the stealth.

Where are these notes located?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997

Dalsinthus

This latest iteration of the bosmer changes is just... disappointing. The feedback on the changes to stealth was pretty near unanimous and they ignored it completely. It makes it clear that it's not worth offering any feedback at all.

BlueRaven

max_only wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

Cundu_Ertur wrote: »

From the 30 Jan class rep meeting notes thread, with my reply:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Bosmer: ZOS has heard concerns about the stackable powerful movement speed. Bosmers will still get a speed boost off dodge, it just wont be as high. Bosmers will get some short damage bonus as compensation. Note: Reps specifically asked about the community’s concern that bosmers are trading stealth for different buffs. We were told that ZOS saw these concerns and would work on creating more options/systems for stealth gameplay outside of race. With these additions, stealth gameplay will open up to more players, and also allow bosmers to have the nice combat buff will still having avenues to be as stealthy as before.

I fully expected the speed boost would not survive in its initial form, so that's fine. I also don't have an issue with having more of the stealth bonus move to a non-racial passive somewhere, but the problem with that is then you have a giant orc or nord moving as stealthily as a teeny tiny bosmer. I mean, seriously, look at a tall bosmer compared to a short anything else, and its pretty significant. Even if it is just a fixed 1m bonus to hiding in the base passive, or adding a stealth component to Hunter's Eye, or whatever, there should be some boost to being hidden for bosmer to reflect their lore-based cultural and physical affinity to being unnoticed. Even if it's small, even if it's less than what the khajiit get, it should be something. I'd waive the proffered damage boost to keep a boost to stealth.

What the actual F? I mean seriously? It's like they "hear" our concerns and just go in a totally different direction. And I am with you, I would wave the actual damage boost just to keep the stealth.

Where are these notes located?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/456997

Thank you! I just wrote a long post there. Probably won't get addressed, but at least I got it off my chest.

anadandy

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457243/pts-patch-notes-v4-3-2#latest

Wood Elf

Hunter's Eye: Reduced the Movement Speed Bonus granted to 10% from 20%, but added a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

We heard your concerns of adding in a highly powerful movement speed bonus tied to Roll Dodging, as well as the performance of this passive in PvE versus PvP environments. We wanted players who are focused on damage to get a small boost out of this in situations where they dodge attacks, without adding more passive power to the race.

It's like pouring gas on a dumpster fire...

BlueRaven

anadandy wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457243/pts-patch-notes-v4-3-2#latest

Wood Elf

Hunter's Eye: Reduced the Movement Speed Bonus granted to 10% from 20%, but added a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

We heard your concerns of adding in a highly powerful movement speed bonus tied to Roll Dodging, as well as the performance of this passive in PvE versus PvP environments. We wanted players who are focused on damage to get a small boost out of this in situations where they dodge attacks, without adding more passive power to the race.

It's like pouring gas on a dumpster fire...

We keep talking that stealth detect is PvP only, and they think we are talking about the roll? How much clearer can we be?

Dalsinthus

BlueRaven wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457243/pts-patch-notes-v4-3-2#latest

Wood Elf

Hunter's Eye: Reduced the Movement Speed Bonus granted to 10% from 20%, but added a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

We heard your concerns of adding in a highly powerful movement speed bonus tied to Roll Dodging, as well as the performance of this passive in PvE versus PvP environments. We wanted players who are focused on damage to get a small boost out of this in situations where they dodge attacks, without adding more passive power to the race.

It's like pouring gas on a dumpster fire...

We keep talking that stealth detect is PvP only, and they think we are talking about the roll? How much clearer can we be?

I noticed that too. There was near universal and vocal feedback that stealth detection was not useful enough to justify a passive. Nearly every post asked for the stealthy passive back. Yet they left it intouched and their acknowledgement of the problem pertains only to the dodge roll part of the passive. Are they not reading feedback? Do they not comprehend what people are saying? Do they just not care? Seems like they have this vision in mind for bosmer and they don’t care if it isn’t useful or wanted, they are gonna do it anyway.

This whole situation (bosmer and altmer changes) really crushes my faith and trust in the dev team. With talented people like Gilliam and the class rep program advising I had trusted that bad changes like this - somewhat lore unfriendly, limited use in any game play mode, inferior to other racial options - wouldn’t be allowed to go forward but here we are. A bad passive actually got worse. If I were a class rep I would have fought this as hard as I respectfully could.

I am definitely rethinking whether or not the game is worth a continued major investment of time. I probably won’t stop playing entirely, but if this is the kind of game management we can expect going forward, I’m not sure I want to make this such a big aspect of my life.

Tasear

Dalsinthus wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457243/pts-patch-notes-v4-3-2#latest

Wood Elf

Hunter's Eye: Reduced the Movement Speed Bonus granted to 10% from 20%, but added a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

We heard your concerns of adding in a highly powerful movement speed bonus tied to Roll Dodging, as well as the performance of this passive in PvE versus PvP environments. We wanted players who are focused on damage to get a small boost out of this in situations where they dodge attacks, without adding more passive power to the race.

It's like pouring gas on a dumpster fire...

We keep talking that stealth detect is PvP only, and they think we are talking about the roll? How much clearer can we be?

I noticed that too. There was near universal and vocal feedback that stealth detection was not useful enough to justify a passive. Nearly every post asked for the stealthy passive back. Yet they left it intouched and their acknowledgement of the problem pertains only to the dodge roll part of the passive. Are they not reading feedback? Do they not comprehend what people are saying? Do they just not care? Seems like they have this vision in mind for bosmer and they don’t care if it isn’t useful or wanted, they are gonna do it anyway.

This whole situation (bosmer and altmer changes) really crushes my faith and trust in the dev team. With talented people like Gilliam and the class rep program advising I had trusted that bad changes like this - somewhat lore unfriendly, limited use in any game play mode, inferior to other racial options - wouldn’t be allowed to go forward but here we are. A bad passive actually got worse. If I were a class rep I would have fought this as hard as I respectfully could.

I am definitely rethinking whether or not the game is worth a continued major investment of time. I probably won’t stop playing entirely, but if this is the kind of game management we can expect going forward, I’m not sure I want to make this such a big aspect of my life.

Dalsinthus wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

anadandy wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/457243/pts-patch-notes-v4-3-2#latest

Wood Elf

Hunter's Eye: Reduced the Movement Speed Bonus granted to 10% from 20%, but added a bonus to Physical and Spell Penetration of 1500 for the duration.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler

We heard your concerns of adding in a highly powerful movement speed bonus tied to Roll Dodging, as well as the performance of this passive in PvE versus PvP environments. We wanted players who are focused on damage to get a small boost out of this in situations where they dodge attacks, without adding more passive power to the race.

It's like pouring gas on a dumpster fire...

We keep talking that stealth detect is PvP only, and they think we are talking about the roll? How much clearer can we be?

I noticed that too. There was near universal and vocal feedback that stealth detection was not useful enough to justify a passive. Nearly every post asked for the stealthy passive back. Yet they left it intouched and their acknowledgement of the problem pertains only to the dodge roll part of the passive. Are they not reading feedback? Do they not comprehend what people are saying? Do they just not care? Seems like they have this vision in mind for bosmer and they don’t care if it isn’t useful or wanted, they are gonna do it anyway.

This whole situation (bosmer and altmer changes) really crushes my faith and trust in the dev team. With talented people like Gilliam and the class rep program advising I had trusted that bad changes like this - somewhat lore unfriendly, limited use in any game play mode, inferior to other racial options - wouldn’t be allowed to go forward but here we are. A bad passive actually got worse. If I were a class rep I would have fought this as hard as I respectfully could.

I am definitely rethinking whether or not the game is worth a continued major investment of time. I probably won’t stop playing entirely, but if this is the kind of game management we can expect going forward, I’m not sure I want to make this such a big aspect of my life.

They unfortunately read it and made bosmer worst and more pvp related. Maybe bosmer lives don't matter or maybe your class reps aren't doing so great in listening to you.