Solo dungeon mode, please
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idk✭✭✭✭✭
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there are people who somehow manage to compensate for less then perfect latency. i don't know how they do it, but they do. sometimes people compensate for them a bit.
the point is, latency is not the only reason why people may want to do stories solo. and from business perspective it make sense to cater to players who prefer solo, becasue when you add up all the different reasons people have, and all the different people who would enjoy the option? its a considerable chunk of the population. who is currently NOT buying those DLC dungeons, NOT playing those DLC dungeons, meanwhile ZoS is investing all these resources into designing content... that gets played by a small minority of population. why not make that content appealing to larger chunk of population by adding a solo option? financially it doesn't make sense NOT to.
They do more than compensate for less than perfect ping. I am talking about some of the best players in the game that run in top competitive raid groups and do well in BGs. Both of which latency is an issue. So that is not a reason for a solo dungeon.
If it made good business sense as you say then we would have had solo dungeons since DLC dungeon were added.
Eventually solo dungeons will make good business sense. That is when the game is really struggling as SWTOR has done for the past few year which coincidently added solo dungeons after they ceased working on real end game content.
BTW, I think it is a real stretch to suggest only a small percentage of the player base go through dungeons from a practical sense and it is an empty comment since you really do not know. Normal dungeons are pretty easy and it is also pretty easy to get a group for them.
See, I do not think Zos manages the actual game/combat very well. However, on the business side they have seemed pretty keen. If it were true that a considerable chunk of the population purchased the zone DLCs but not the dungeon DLCs as you suggest they would have made a change long ago. They know whether than comment is true or just spreading false information. They see the real information.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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They do more than compensate for less than perfect ping. I am talking about some of the best players in the game that run in top competitive raid groups and do well in BGs. Both of which latency is an issue. So that is not a reason for a solo dungeon.
If it made good business sense as you say then we would have had solo dungeons since DLC dungeon were added.
Eventually solo dungeons will make good business sense. That is when the game is really struggling as SWTOR has done for the past few year which coincidently added solo dungeons after they ceased working on real end game content.
BTW, I think it is a real stretch to suggest only a small percentage of the player base go through dungeons from a practical sense and it is an empty comment since you really do not know. Normal dungeons are pretty easy and it is also pretty easy to get a group for them.
See, I do not think Zos manages the actual game/combat very well. However, on the business side they have seemed pretty keen. If it were true that a considerable chunk of the population purchased the zone DLCs but not the dungeon DLCs as you suggest they would have made a change long ago. They know whether than comment is true or just spreading false information. They see the real information.
first of all.
sigh
WRONG.
SWTOT did NOT add solo dungeons after they stopped working on real content.
SWTOR added solo dungeons originally pre release of Shadow of Revan, as well as the 2 dungeons that came with that expansion and they were so well received that they added solo versions eventually to all the rest of the dungeons in the game. they did NOT do it out of desperation. and NO, those dungeons did NOT kill the game, not even remotely. they game was thriving, even well into Knights of the Fallen Empire, despite that particular expansion and cadence if its release causing unease for a lot of people. the game didn't genuinely start dying until galactic command system was introduced (and that whole thing where they promised that there will no longer be almost a years break between SWTOR's version of trials and then blatantly lied about it). so please. do NOT use SWTOR as your excuse why solo dungeons are bad. becasue it actualy proves while solo dungeons are GOOD.
moreover. just becasue someone wasn't added from the start, doesn't mean it is bad business. this game did NOT have one tamriel at launch. it didn't have dyes. it didn't have housing. - ALL of those things came later. just becasue something is not added from the start, doesn't mean its not financially viable. it just means.. its not yet added. one of the halmarks of MMO's is that its a living world that is constantly changes. we didn't have chapters at the start either. we had different DLC cadence. and so on and so forth
and once again. bad latency is only a small part of why solo dungeons would be good. you have GOT to stop making it your hill to die on, becasue its only ONE of the reasons many people here brought up. the main reason is - INABILITY TO PROPERLY DO STORY IN A GROUP. other reason being that they are getting more and more difficult so even if you don't mind skipping the story, it can be a hit or miss when it comes to pugging them even on normal, but mainly. its THE STORY. and THAT discourages people from buying those dungeons. THAT is a loss for ZoS.
as for me not knowing how much of a percentage goes through dungeons? i don't know exact numbers, true. i do not have acess to those, only my own experiences and seeing forum feedback. doesn't seem like people like DLC dungeons in their random queue. with rare exception.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***9 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
This is a really mature comment (sarcasm).
Why would someone speak against the upcoming DLC Dungeons having a Solo version?
Are these people afraid that Solo versions of these Dungeons will be so successful that no one wants to do the Group versions? This will hardly be the case in my opinion.
So why speaking against Solo Versions of Dungeons with a real Story component?
Most of those who do group dungeons do not care about the story anyhow....they just want the goodies they get in the end. Creating Story Dungeons for this group of players is clearly a waste of effort and time.
So why speaking against Solo Versions of Group Dungeons? Is it simply Elitism? Or are the Naysayers simply Trolling?
The one writing;
"So perhaps MMOs are not the genre of game you should be playing? There are plenty of great RPG single player games available; even those in the ES universe."
That one is clearly the Troll of all Trolls. Why does this one even bother to comment at all? Sure...everyone is entitled to their opinion...but trash like that? Really?
Good luck to us all
My comment is mature; I'm sorry the truth hurts. The reason why this is a terrible idea is because then they need to allot resources to creating this "solo-instance". Different boss mechanics, different difficulty, different/no item drops, etc. etc. This is an MMO! Resources should not be spent catering to solo players when a large portion of the game is a broken mess as it is; they should use those resources to actually fix what they have. If you or anyone else wants a solo game, go play one.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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first of all.
sigh
WRONG.
SWTOT did NOT add solo dungeons after they stopped working on real content.
SWTOR added solo dungeons originally pre release of Shadow of Revan, as well as the 2 dungeons that came with that expansion and they were so well received that they added solo versions eventually to all the rest of the dungeons in the game. they did NOT do it out of desperation. and NO, those dungeons did NOT kill the game, not even remotely. they game was thriving, even well into Knights of the Fallen Empire, despite that particular expansion and cadence if its release causing unease for a lot of people. the game didn't genuinely start dying until galactic command system was introduced (and that whole thing where they promised that there will no longer be almost a years break between SWTOR's version of trials and then blatantly lied about it). so please. do NOT use SWTOR as your excuse why solo dungeons are bad. becasue it actualy proves while solo dungeons are GOOD.
moreover. just becasue someone wasn't added from the start, doesn't mean it is bad business. this game did NOT have one tamriel at launch. it didn't have dyes. it didn't have housing. - ALL of those things came later. just becasue something is not added from the start, doesn't mean its not financially viable. it just means.. its not yet added. one of the halmarks of MMO's is that its a living world that is constantly changes. we didn't have chapters at the start either. we had different DLC cadence. and so on and so forth
and once again. bad latency is only a small part of why solo dungeons would be good. you have GOT to stop making it your hill to die on, becasue its only ONE of the reasons many people here brought up. the main reason is - INABILITY TO PROPERLY DO STORY IN A GROUP. other reason being that they are getting more and more difficult so even if you don't mind skipping the story, it can be a hit or miss when it comes to pugging them even on normal, but mainly. its THE STORY. and THAT discourages people from buying those dungeons. THAT is a loss for ZoS.
as for me not knowing how much of a percentage goes through dungeons? i don't know exact numbers, true. i do not have acess to those, only my own experiences and seeing forum feedback. doesn't seem like people like DLC dungeons in their random queue. with rare exception.
2 entire dungeons at launch, Yes, the Jedi Prisoner story -Taral V and Maelstrom Prison.
and not a single solo dungeon until years later so you are wrong to say I am incorrect in the big picture and the sigh is a little, well, you know.
The rest of your information is just made up.
1. you and I do not know what is good business. You might have your speculation but clearly nothing to base it on other than your own interest. That is all you presented.
2. You are also incorrect about the inability to properly do a story in a group. That is patently false. Heck, when I am in a group and someone wants to hear the story we let them. Most that I run with if someone says something about that we let them.
And you have no basis for the comment that it discourages large numbers of players from buying the dungeons. You are just making that up.
Again, you argument is not with me, it is with Zos. I merley stated what is likely their position which is actually based on something, their actions. I really do not care what you want, If you have bad ping, if no one wants to play with you or any of that. I really do not care if Zos adds solo dungeons.
But my comments have been correct. The Jedi Prisoner Story is a very small exception. *sighEdited by idk on January 27, 2019 10:10PM1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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2 entire dungeons at launch, Yes, the Jedi Prisoner story -Taral V and Maelstrom Prison.
and not a single solo dungeon until years later so you are wrong to say I am incorrect in the big picture and the sigh is a little, well, you know.
The rest of your information is just made up.
1. you and I do not know what is good business. You might have your speculation but clearly nothing to base it on other than your own interest. That is all you presented.
2. You are also incorrect about the inability to properly do a story in a group. That is patently false. Heck, when I am in a group and someone wants to hear the story we let them. Most that I run with if someone says something about that we let them.
And you have no basis for the comment that it discourages large numbers of players from buying the dungeons. You are just making that up.
Again, you argument is not with me, it is with Zos. I merley stated what is likely their position which is actually based on something, their actions. I really do not care what you want, If you have bad ping, if no one wants to play with you or any of that. I really do not care if Zos adds solo dungeons.
But my comments have been correct. The Jedi Prisoner Story is a very small exception. *sigh
again. wrong. jedi prisoner story was added later. first dungeons to have solo mode were assault on Tython, Korriban incursion, Debth of Manaan and legacy of Rakkata. those were prelude story to Shadow of Revan and something new Bioware was trying with making flashpoints both group AND solo content, while also keeping them as essential part of the story. with launch of Shadow of Revan, they also had Blood hunt and Battle of Rishi available as group or solo.
they tried the whole "we are going to have our dungeons as part of main story" thing years before ZoS. and it worked. back then? it WORKED. you MAY be confusing solo intro to Jedi prisoner with actual flashpoints, which were not originally solo. solo flashpoints weren't a thing at launch, but they also were NOT added out of desperation. they were added back when bioware still charged people for expansions and PEOPLE ACTUALLY BOUGHT THOSE.
this clarification aside
1. is it good business to design content that very few of your players can do? would you say Blizzard knows what good business is? becasue Blizzard came to realization that was NOT good business to design content that only small percentrage of the player base experiences, so they added a mode that would allow just about anyone to experience. which allowed them to allocate more resources to design versions of that group content that please advanced and hardcore players.
2. I ma NOT incorrect. that you can maybe some times with some of the players - manage to do the story, while they patiently wait for you, does NOT mean you will be able to get something like that to happen all the time. and it also requires that you make other people wait. a LOT. there are a LOT of dungeons in this game. every single one of them has a quest, and those quests? are a STORY. and there is a LOT of extra investigative dialogue in there too, and that includes even most recent dungeons.
how long can you hope that you keep being in a group that will keep waiting for you. and before you say - gather a group where all of you want to do the story, REMINDER. the moment one person finishes dialogue, it finishes for EVERYONE. even if they are not actualy finished. you have to synchronize your clicking on npc perfectly each and every time. at least in swtor, this is built into the dialogue system. not so much with ESO.
if your "its possible" hinges on this much of a technicality? that is a problem
and why sure it doesn't matter what we argue to each other, at the end its up to ZoS, I'm just really really REALLY tired of all the "reasons" that people bring up why current dungeon questing is not an issue.
right now dungeon DLC's have no appeal or use for solo players. and there is TWO of them in a year, to only one story DLC (I'm not counting a chapter here, becasue 1 - chapter comes with a trial, and 2. EVERYONE has to buy it separately, regardless of subscription status). if your players are subscribers... eh... I guess it doesn't matter as much. but ESO is subscription optional and a LOT of people are NOT subscribers (its part of the reason why cash shop is THAT aggressive, and why each DLC can be bought separately - to supplement the revenue that is not coming from people who do not subscribe) guess who is not buying dungeon DLC's? that's right. and no I'm not making it up, people have outright stated it both on the forums and in game. and plus... it makes no sense to buy something that has NO content for you.
Edited by Linaleah on January 27, 2019 10:35PMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***10 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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again. wrong. jedi prisoner story was added later. first dungeons to have solo mode were assault on Tython, Korriban incursion, Debth of Manaan and legacy of Rakkata.
Pretty sure I did the Jedi Prisoner story before I got my first character to lvl 50 and I started a month after launch. Maybe I am a little fuzzy the exact date I did it, but know I dropped it because it did not scale to level, was to easy solo.
As for the rest, you are making an assumption without any actual information to support it You do not know Blizzards business numbers and certainly do not know do not know ESO's numbers. If you did you would be posting actual information to support your statements.
And yes, you are incorrect. It is very easy to form a group with the intent of paying attention to the dialogue and story. Is extremely easy and just an excuse to say otherwise.
It would seem clear after putting out this many DLCs that if they dungeon DLCs were not selling well something would have changed by now. That alone seems to derail your assumptions.
I grow tired of baseless facts and incorrect statements about how difficult it is to form a group to pay attention to the story line. As I said, I really do not care if Zos adds solo dungeons but I do understand it is a solid fact they have made a business decision not to and until they see otherwise that will not change. Your fuzzy logic is something they can see right through since they have actual numbers.Edited by idk on January 28, 2019 12:04AM1 -
Olith✭✭✭
I've italicized and made the relevant part bold. I've then underlined the most important word just to ensure it grabs your attention. To clarify, you don't play MMO's to run solo content. I don't want any MMO I play to cater to the solo crowd because it takes their time and resources away from creating better experiences for the genre the game was created for; multiplayer group content. The game already caters way more than it should to solo players. When TES 6 releases, I am going to be all over those forums asking for multiplayer aspects to get included in the game. I bet I get lynched.
You failed to italicize and make bold the statement how it's the group content we are expected to play. I wonder why. I also wonder why you "elite" players want us so badly in your groups. Are you the same guys that kick us out, with a snide comment, as soon as they notice us being slow, running the "wrong" gear, not knowing what we are doing or having to be resurrected every 30 seconds?
EDIT: Oh no, I forgot to underline it.Edited by Olith on January 28, 2019 12:14AM13 -
Kamatsu✭✭✭✭1. is it good business to design content that very few of your players can do? would you say Blizzard knows what good business is? becasue Blizzard came to realization that was NOT good business to design content that only small percentrage of the player base experiences, so they added a mode that would allow just about anyone to experience. which allowed them to allocate more resources to design versions of that group content that please advanced and hardcore players.1. you and I do not know what is good business. You might have your speculation but clearly nothing to base it on other than your own interest. That is all you presented.
As for the rest, you are making an assumption without any actual information to support it You do not know Blizzards business numbers and certainly do not know do not know ESO's numbers. If you did you would be posting actual information to support your statements.
Actually Linaleah is correct on this matter. Back in 2012 WoW dev's posted on the old WoW forums about the reason's for the changes to raiding they had made with Wrath of the Lich King, and why they had introduced the "Looking for Raid" feature in the 3.3.0 patch.
They were discussing the reason they moved Naxxramus from being the top tier 'Classic' raid to being the bottom tier raid in WotLK - the reason for this bbeign the dev's who worked on it were extremely unhappy that only an extremely small percent of players had ever even seen the raid, let alone completed it... thus all their hard work on making the layout, look, boss mechanics, etc were going unseen and unexperienced. So they decided to move it to be the bottom tier LK raid, and try and make it easier and more accessible to casual players.
They also brought up the percent of players who actually raided - and for a game that was highly known for it's raiding and it's "raid or don't play" attitude... it was shockingly low. They stated that at the time only 6-7% of the player base had even ever set foot into a raid, only 4-5% had completed the first raid, only 1% had made it through the raids to reach Naxxramus, and less than 0.05% had completed Naxxramus.
This was the reason they brought in LFR - they wanted to make raids more accessible to casual players, and try and get more players to actually try out raids and experience the content that they normally would never experience. They hoped that by making a much easier version of the raids, one that could be queued into rather than making a team yourself... that more people would enter raids and participate in it.
LFR did bring more players into the raids and allow more players the ability to experience the associated stories. However, it should be noted that the past 2 expansions have tied the main story into doing LFR to complete it... my personal take on this is that there are still plenty of players put off trying to work with other players that they avoid raiding, even in the simplified LFR system. Why else would dev's force players into content like this, if it wasn't for the fact that players were not doing the content in #'s the dev's were happy with?Edited by Kamatsu on January 28, 2019 1:17AMo_O10 -
Sylvermynx✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually Linaleah is correct on this matter. Back in 2012 WoW dev's posted on the old WoW forums about the reason's for the changes to raiding they had made with Wrath of the Lich King, and why they had introduced the "Looking for Raid" feature in the 3.3.0 patch.
They were discussing the reason they moved Naxxramus from being the top tier 'Classic' raid to being the bottom tier raid in WotLK - the reason for this bbeign the dev's who worked on it were extremely unhappy that only an extremely small percent of players had ever even seen the raid, let alone completed it... thus all their hard work on making the layout, look, boss mechanics, etc were going unseen and unexperienced. So they decided to move it to be the bottom tier LK raid, and try and make it easier and more accessible to casual players.
They also brought up the percent of players who actually raided - and for a game that was highly known for it's raiding and it's "raid or don't play" attitude... it was shockingly low. They stated that at the time only 6-7% of the player base had even ever set foot into a raid, only 4-5% had completed the first raid, only 1% had made it through the raids to reach Naxxramus, and less than 0.05% had completed Naxxramus.
This was the reason they brought in LFR - they wanted to make raids more accessible to casual players, and try and get more players to actually try out raids and experience the content that they normally would never experience. They hoped that by making a much easier version of the raids, one that could be queued into rather than making a team yourself... that more people would enter raids and participate in it.
LFR did bring more players into the raids and allow more players the ability to experience the associated stories. However, it should be noted that the past 2 expansions have tied the main story into doing LFR to complete it... my personal take on this is that there are still plenty of players put off trying to work with other players that they avoid raiding, even in the simplified LFR system. Why else would dev's force players into content like this, if it wasn't for the fact that players were not doing the content in #'s the dev's were happy with?
I really wasn't interested in posting all that about another game (sometimes people get really unhappy over that) but since you already opened Mannimarco's can of worms:
I remember that pretty well. And I remember having a real discussion with one of the CS reps I knew quite well by that time.... regarding why with many max level girls I didn't raid. The answer is the same now: my crap satellite (the only connection I have or have ever had other than dialup back in the 90s) is simply not viable for "real content" (even in WoW or RIFT).
The upshot was that I got a temp invite to the rep's main's guild, and raided with them for a bit. I was the "red-headed stepchild" - everyone knew I was there for "reasons". We did Naxx various times. And others I don't even remember now. Finally, I accepted an invitation from an RL friend to raid with his guild - on a pvp server *sigh*. I'm sure the rep's guild was delighted I left.
The friend's guild was much better for me - lots of players with various issues from the physical to the mental to plain ol' lag (me of course). But NO ONE gave anyone grief for anything. So that was refreshing. I still hated raiding though.... and I truly hated "living" on a pvp server.
Eventually, I left and went back to running lower level content on my mains (various servers), hauling 4 or 5 girls behind for gear. Yeah, I had 7 accounts in WoW at that point.... always someone to gear up. But then they went to WoD. Nope. That was it for me. Never been back.0 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
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again. wrong. jedi prisoner story was added later. first dungeons to have solo mode were assault on Tython, Korriban incursion, Debth of Manaan and legacy of Rakkata. those were prelude story to Shadow of Revan and something new Bioware was trying with making flashpoints both group AND solo content, while also keeping them as essential part of the story. with launch of Shadow of Revan, they also had Blood hunt and Battle of Rishi available as group or solo.
they tried the whole "we are going to have our dungeons as part of main story" thing years before ZoS. and it worked. back then? it WORKED. you MAY be confusing solo intro to Jedi prisoner with actual flashpoints, which were not originally solo. solo flashpoints weren't a thing at launch, but they also were NOT added out of desperation. they were added back when bioware still charged people for expansions and PEOPLE ACTUALLY BOUGHT THOSE.
I'm going to clarify a step further-- the complaints around SWTOR's solo content centered on players being unable to group for KOTFEET. You couldn't take your friends into instanced story content and that began with Shadow of Revan. It was mandatory to run that content solo. Flashpoints were never the problem or the complaint.
Edited by jainiadral on January 28, 2019 1:46AM3 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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Pretty sure I did the Jedi Prisoner story before I got my first character to lvl 50 and I started a month after launch. Maybe I am a little fuzzy the exact date I did it, but know I dropped it because it did not scale to level, was to easy solo.
As for the rest, you are making an assumption without any actual information to support it You do not know Blizzards business numbers and certainly do not know do not know ESO's numbers. If you did you would be posting actual information to support your statements.
And yes, you are incorrect. It is very easy to form a group with the intent of paying attention to the dialogue and story. Is extremely easy and just an excuse to say otherwise.
It would seem clear after putting out this many DLCs that if they dungeon DLCs were not selling well something would have changed by now. That alone seems to derail your assumptions.
I grow tired of baseless facts and incorrect statements about how difficult it is to form a group to pay attention to the story line. As I said, I really do not care if Zos adds solo dungeons but I do understand it is a solid fact they have made a business decision not to and until they see otherwise that will not change. Your fuzzy logic is something they can see right through since they have actual numbers.
you may have soloed jedi prisoner after over-leveling, but it was added as actual solo specific queue dungeon only after they saw how successful and popular Shadow of revan dungeons were - of which there were 6.
and no. its NOT in fact easy. its a challenge to form even for every once in a while, its absolutely impossible to assure that you are going to have a group for every single dungeon you may want to do a story of, even on one character, let alone alts. your experience =/= everyone's experience. just how many dungeons have you formed those groups for? just how often? how open is your schedule? and so on and so forth.
moreover. I'm pretty sure that they think they are doing fine becasue DLC dungeons are included in subscription, whether you want them or not, whether you run them or not. however, you are making more of assumptions thinking that plenty of people are buying them, let alone running them. honestly, I'm half convinced that the main reason why they make a price of a CE dungeon DLC to be about same as buying pet and mount separately to either encourage people to just buy a bundle, or get the same sort of money out of it if people had bought a DLC anyways. THAT would be a business decision, but is it good for the health of the game? is it good for convincing people to keep subscribing.. again, I'm wondering if they are trying to bribe people into staying subscribed by adding some extras becasue "hey, you get acess to DLC's!" is not longer good enough incentive to keep people subscribed.
and I wonder if those incentives are working at all... too early to tell since they have only been active a few months.
P.S. and yeah, tying the story to the dungeons could be developers seeing very few people actualy doing those dungeons and rather then making them more accessible, they are trying to force people into them by tying essentials of story to them. kinda like they way they tie fun rewards like indrik, etc to forcing people to pvp. it works. but only to a point. and it does NOTHING for community morale.
Edited by Linaleah on January 28, 2019 1:53AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***5 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
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Sorry the truth hurts sweetheart, but it’s not just a MMO.
My comment is mature; I'm sorry the truth hurts. The reason why this is a terrible idea is because then they need to allot resources to creating this "solo-instance". Different boss mechanics, different difficulty, different/no item drops, etc. etc. This is an MMORPG! Resources should not be spent catering to solo players when a large portion of the game is a broken mess as it is; they should use those resources to actually fix what they have. If you or anyone else wants a solo game, go play one.
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Algraxa✭✭✭Solo is fine with me, as would be a green gear mode that allows unskilled, under-equipped pugs to complete.
Not everyone wants to be LEET.... But everyone wants to participate in a story they are paying for.Edited by Algraxa on January 28, 2019 2:27AM10 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Am I still in the ESO forums? I think I somehow got to SWTOR forums...4 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭jainiadral wrote: »
I'm going to clarify a step further-- the complaints around SWTOR's solo content centered on players being unable to group for KOTFEET. You couldn't take your friends into instanced story content and that began with Shadow of Revan. It was mandatory to run that content solo. Flashpoints were never the problem or the complaint.
basically. there is mandatory solo content in ESO, but most of the content you CAN group for if you wanted to. which is the best of both worlds and what IMO MMO should be like. its a persistent multiplayer online world where you can play on your own OR play with other people - your choice. and who is to say that hypothetical someone playing story entirely solo and only grouping up with other people for player created and led roleplays (something that is especially common now that we have housing) - is playing mmo wrong?dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***4 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually Linaleah is correct on this matter. Back in 2012 WoW dev's posted on the old WoW forums about the reason's for the changes to raiding they had made with Wrath of the Lich King, and why they had introduced the "Looking for Raid" feature in the 3.3.0 patch.
They were discussing the reason they moved Naxxramus from being the top tier 'Classic' raid to being the bottom tier raid in WotLK - the reason for this bbeign the dev's who worked on it were extremely unhappy that only an extremely small percent of players had ever even seen the raid, let alone completed it... thus all their hard work on making the layout, look, boss mechanics, etc were going unseen and unexperienced. So they decided to move it to be the bottom tier LK raid, and try and make it easier and more accessible to casual players.
They also brought up the percent of players who actually raided - and for a game that was highly known for it's raiding and it's "raid or don't play" attitude... it was shockingly low. They stated that at the time only 6-7% of the player base had even ever set foot into a raid, only 4-5% had completed the first raid, only 1% had made it through the raids to reach Naxxramus, and less than 0.05% had completed Naxxramus.
This was the reason they brought in LFR - they wanted to make raids more accessible to casual players, and try and get more players to actually try out raids and experience the content that they normally would never experience. They hoped that by making a much easier version of the raids, one that could be queued into rather than making a team yourself... that more people would enter raids and participate in it.
LFR did bring more players into the raids and allow more players the ability to experience the associated stories. However, it should be noted that the past 2 expansions have tied the main story into doing LFR to complete it... my personal take on this is that there are still plenty of players put off trying to work with other players that they avoid raiding, even in the simplified LFR system. Why else would dev's force players into content like this, if it wasn't for the fact that players were not doing the content in #'s the dev's were happy with?
And Linaleah would be correct for that situation in WoW. That does not mean they are correct concerning the matter here being discussed in this thread. After all, from what you said, they kept that raid as a group raid. Granted, I know little about WoW as I disliked the design. I am just going off of what you stated.
In other words, while interesting, it has little bearing on supporting Lineleah's claims they are not able to support outside of assumptions.
And yes, I have made an assumption as to Zos has not introduced solo versions of dungeons as a business decision but that is supported by their actions and decisions to date.
Again, I could care less about solo dungeons. I have merely pointed out what is likely the general business thought Zos has had concerning this. I tend to think Zos looks at how their sales flow when making those decisions. They are a very successful company and it would seem pretty ironic if sales were low for the dungeon DLCs they chose to not make changes long ago. idk, maybe Lineleah is right and Zenimax Media does not know how to run their estimated 2.5 billion USD company.
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Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭all i can say is that it has become really difficult getting into specific dungeons unless you are a tank...for example sunday i was queued to get as dd into the new wolfhunter dungeons which i havent seen for 4 hours without luck...on a sunday afternoon in winter... i do think there needs to be a change, a solo dungeon mode or 2 players or something would be certainly interesting and also necessary for the future more dungeons and activities and fewer players otherwise could mean certain aspects of the game simply dying out5 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
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And Linaleah would be correct for that situation in WoW. That does not mean they are correct concerning the matter here being discussed in this thread. After all, from what you said, they kept that raid as a group raid. Granted, I know little about WoW as I disliked the design. I am just going off of what you stated.
In other words, while interesting, it has little bearing on supporting Lineleah's claims they are not able to support outside of assumptions.
And yes, I have made an assumption as to Zos has not introduced solo versions of dungeons as a business decision but that is supported by their actions and decisions to date.
Again, I could care less about solo dungeons. I have merely pointed out what is likely the general business thought Zos has had concerning this. I tend to think Zos looks at how their sales flow when making those decisions. They are a very successful company and it would seem pretty ironic if sales were low for the dungeon DLCs they chose to not make changes long ago. idk, maybe Lineleah is right and Zenimax Media does not know how to run their estimated 2.5 billion USD company.
sigh
businesses change and adopt if they want to survive. as Zenimax has done again and again, and you know what THAT means? that just becasue they are not doing something YET, does NOT mean its a bad financial decision, and it certainly does NOT mean that they considered and completely rejected an idea. YOU are assuming that. once again. ZoS originally did wrothgar as DLC content. they then realized that something of that scope is not something they can keep doing UNLESS they charge extra for it. so now we have chapters. by your reasoning, becasue they didn't START with chapters, it was somehow a wrong financial decision for them? or something?
business that gets complacent? fails.
ZoS doesn't strike me as THAT complacent. not to mention DLC dungeons 1. have been getting progressively harder 2. are going to be more integrated into overall story, so that changes things up even more. 3. MMO business is MMO business. it doesn't mean that we need to copy MMO mechanics, but business practices that work? different story
P.S. Blizzard did something very interesting with their raids. they did keep current ones as raid, they just made them super duper easy to get through (which was also an idea elitists keep rejecting - making normal mode for DLC dungeons easier. something something, it won't teach you how to deal with vet, as if everyone who runs normal will inevitably head into vet >_> ) but.. they also made ALL the raids from prior expansions - soloable. and I do mean up to and including reworking mechanics so that they COULD be done solo, not just "oh I outgear it, now, so of course I can solo it). ZoS's solution to keeping old content relevant was to scale everything at the same level. Blizzard's solution to keeping old content relevant was adding a whole bunch of vanity rewards (that come with their own achievements) and reworking it for complete solo play. and thing is.... whatever dialogue there is within the raid? does NOT keep you behind. it happens as you run through the place (or dungeon for that matter) unlike ZoS. and I don't mind that in ESO, you gotta talk to npc's. i LOVE it actualy. I just wish when in dungeons we could actualy you know... take our time and do that.Edited by Linaleah on January 28, 2019 6:11AMdirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Mr_Walker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nemesis7884 wrote: »all i can say is that it has become really difficult getting into specific dungeons unless you are a tank...for example sunday i was queued to get as dd into the new wolfhunter dungeons which i havent seen for 4 hours without luck...on a sunday afternoon in winter... i do think there needs to be a change, a solo dungeon mode or 2 players or something would be certainly interesting and also necessary for the future more dungeons and activities and fewer players otherwise could mean certain aspects of the game simply dying out
Fair point. I've found the wait for non-pledge dungeons as a DD to be 40-60 minutes.0 -
Leocaran✭✭✭You don't need friends or a guild. I run normal dungeons with randoms all the time via the dungeon finder. I wouldn't say l2p, but rather learn a bit about the roles that you can queue for, you don't need trial sets and a crazy high parse for normal mode. If ZOS one day adds a solo story mode for dungeons that'd be cool as I said before I would use it myself, but for now that isn't an option. Giving other players a chance is always an option.
More and more and more of this... Can anybody read and really understand written text?And yes, you are incorrect. It is very easy to form a group with the intent of paying attention to the dialogue and story. Is extremely easy and just an excuse to say otherwise.
<..>
I grow tired of baseless facts and incorrect statements about how difficult it is to form a group to pay attention to the story line. ...
No, it's not comfortable to have a story run with a group when you want to talk to all NPC (I mean, all that are there, not only quest line ones) and fully explore the dungeon (look into all nooks and crannies, probably jump into some chasms, climb on some inaccessible ledges, take some screenshots and so on). I won't force this even on a friend, and definitely not on some random people. Also I'm not sure I'd always have a lot of patience for this thing if I'd already finished with exploration, but someone other's takes a lot longer...
Moreover, did you intentionally miss the part about the broken programming? The part where dialogs stop for you when other player in the group finishes it. It is like this even in some overland quests.
[As a note: I can solo at least some normal dungeons. But even some base game dungeons have group mechanics not doable solo.]Edited by Leocaran on January 28, 2019 9:24AM7 -
jainiadral✭✭✭✭✭
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basically. there is mandatory solo content in ESO, but most of the content you CAN group for if you wanted to. which is the best of both worlds and what IMO MMO should be like. its a persistent multiplayer online world where you can play on your own OR play with other people - your choice. and who is to say that hypothetical someone playing story entirely solo and only grouping up with other people for player created and led roleplays (something that is especially common now that we have housing) - is playing mmo wrong?
Yeah, I think ESO handles it well and in a way that mostly makes sense in letting the player experience the world. The main story and the guild stories, which really need to be seen in their entirety to give a player a complete view of the overarching story, are totally personal. The open world is exactly that. TBH, some of the overland quest areas could do with more "personal' instancing or smaller populations per zone, but it's a minor quibble.
What sucked about SWTOR's method of enforcing solo play was that up until Revan, you could take friends into story instances in spectator mode, then fight with them. Releasing two xpacs as enforced solo experiences was a huge mistake. And the pushback and sub drop that SWTOR experienced was completely valid. I can't see ZOS ever making that kind of an error. Solo flashpoints were hugely popular, however.
ZOS could learn a lot from Bioware in implementing solo dungeons and difficulty settings for overland content. Which is why what happened to SWTOR is a flawed lesson at best.
TL;DR: Options are good. Forcing play style is bad.Edited by jainiadral on January 28, 2019 9:22AM4 -
adriant1978✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I also wonder why you "elite" players want us so badly in your groups. Are you the same guys that kick us out, with a snide comment, as soon as they notice us being slow, running the "wrong" gear, not knowing what we are doing or having to be resurrected every 30 seconds?
I think some of them imagine that, given sufficient motivation, we will all "git gud" because in their minds the game is easy and we just aren't trying hard enough.
Others probably don't actually want us in their group content, but rather just get a good dose of schadenfreude from seeing us excluded from content we'd like to experience.Edited by adriant1978 on January 28, 2019 1:48PM6 -
Asha_11_ESO✭✭✭I'd love a solo dungeon mode. But I wouldn't want it to be a cakewalk.
I've been playing on and off for years, but log on at random times, and sometimes have to afk a lot. I don't feel like I can easily group up with people.
I've done a few of them normal mode, with pet sorc, but there always seems to be that one boss which !@#!'s you up because you need an extra person there to do an interrupt or something. So I just gave up trying to complete dungeons on my own.3 -
cyberjanet✭✭✭✭✭[quote="AndrewQ84;c-5731991" Oh, and I feel they should be allowed to have a second group member come along as well. Example; my girlfriend and I play the game almost exclusively alone with each other. So it would be nice to run these solo mode dungeons together. I know that two people is not a solo mode, but what difference is there with a lot of the quests you can run with more than one person when they are solo as well in the overworld. [/quote]
Perhaps we should be looking at a "Story Mode"rather than a solo mode. Let six people in if they feel like playing together, perhaps the difficulty can scale to the number of people. The current dungeons have changed so much since I first began playing - all those NPCs who turned on you when they succumbed to The Whisperer just no longer exist, for example. With extra lore thrown in, and maybe some special story achievements. I did the two dungeons on the PTS last night, a little too quickly for my taste, but they seem a great opportunity for a Story Mode.
Favourite NPC: Wine-For-All
Mostly PC-EU , with a lonely little guy on NA.1 -
Tapio75✭✭✭✭✭
✭What we really need, is that instances are like this.
They will scale to the level AND number of people going in there. They will allow you to go alone OR with a friend or friends and it always scales aproriately so it is doable solo, with 2 persons or with 5 people while still being as challenging as player wants it. Instances should have a difficulty selection as well which is then reflected by the rewards given. Item scaling is easy to do as is instance scaling.
Only instances where lots of people are let in at the same time are the world and cities, but still in the reasonable amounts that do not result in bad performance like right now in Vivec city or in quest hubs that people use for XP farming.
More options for different types of players makes the game playable for more players ending up in more players and more subscriptions as well hopefully.
Also have to remember that this is not just an another MMO. This is a TES game and as such, should also give enjoyable experience for those who just want to play as a character themselves or do a D&D style roleplay event with some friends.
Currently there are many quest lo9cations, that should be basically only you and your friends if you are immersion seeker. Tons of players running like crazy through a long lost tomb or a ruin does not any sense in my point of wiev nor does a queline for a delve boss.
People should also have achoice to keep playing in a gameworld that is implemented right now if they really want to just see people because it is an MMO.
>>PC-EU Mostly PVE. Played since BETA<<7 -
haloufe007✭✭✭
Personally I am so that all the old content of dungeon ant Trial becomes solo with a difficulty of 2 players
with the system of the seasons and the release of the new chapter in June 2019, all that is realized until the old chapter of June 2018 will become solo
and from each new chapter in June all the content after the old chapter will become solo
and we will have an elder scrolls solo game that is renewed each year0 -
6point6b16_ESO✭✭✭myskyrim26 wrote: »Please READ the post before posting commets, not just title
And again. PLEASE READ before commenting. PLEASE.
Dear ZOS,
A lot of lore already hidden in 4-player dungeons. It is even worse for the Wrathstone dungeons, as they are a part of the story. Please make a solo dungeon mode for players, who are not able to do dungeons in a group.
Let this solo dungeon mode be purely story oriented: no sets, no motifs, no achivements, no skillpoints - nothing that could make this mode a kind of a cheating one. Nothing to grind. It should not be a part of Undaunted pledges and whatever else - juts a story to do.
To all who want to post some answer like "find friends", "find a guild", "learn to play", please read this: I play since 2016. I tried hard to find people like me to do dungeond for a story. And here are the results:
1. We are 4 and we all want to do a dungeon for a story. I'm a tank. Other players are: a healer who sees a restoration staff for the first time and 2 DDs running around a dungeon like mad chickens. These people never did dungeond before, and will never practice - they are focused on quests only. They don't want to spend their time learning how to play in a group.
2. I found 3 people who agree to change their playstile. We live in different countries - thus it is hard to set a time for dungeon runs or practice. More - even if we all 4 are online, these players are busy doing something. As, you know, there are a lot things to do. And the most bad thing: I can be forced to log off at any moment because of my job.
3. Many players who want to do dungeon stories refuse to change anything. As a master crafter, I offer them free sets, food, glyphs. I try to explain their skills gently. I try to explain dungeon mechanics. But solo players are SOLO players. They don't want someone to be a leader. They don't want to learn a crazy rotation piano, they don't listen to a team mechanics. "I'll go see what's there!" - types my teammate in chat. I start typing "No" in respond, but the teammate is already dead, and mobs are running at us.
4. Guildmates do agree to do a dungeon with me. Sometimes they even give some time for me to make screenshots of dialogues. Sometimes. But the rest of the time they just rush through a dungeon. I don't want to rush! Dungeons are beautiful, I want to enjoy them! I don't want to make dialogue screenshots, I want to LISTEN to them!
5. I tried to do dungeons solo with a petsorc. My results: Fungal Grotto 1 and another "beginners" dungeon with a spider boss. I know - some players can do a lot of dungeons solo. Not me, unfortunately.
I assure you - I've made every effort to find players like me. A lot of people want to do dungeon stories, and it is impossible to become a team. Please @ZOS, give us a possibility to enjoy dungeons!
@ZOS_GinaBruno
The standard dungeons are already solo..!! its called gear0 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭6point6b16_ESO wrote: »
The standard dungeons are already solo..!! its called gear
1. gear is like... maybe 40% of the equation when it comes to soloing group dungeons. the rest is skill/ability/latency
2. there are dungeons and quite a few of them that are NOT soloable no matter how good you are, becasue there are mechanics that require there to be at least one other person, anything from breaking you out, to interrupts to something as small and yet vital as simultaneously hitting 2 levers that are on opposite sides of large room.
anyways, that said - that idea above about scaling content based on how many people you have in a group? that might just be an idea solution. I'm not sure how challenging it would be to implement in ESO, but I do believe that this is how some of the content at least in Neverwinter works and I'm fairly certain that that's the same kind of scaling that Flex raiding in wow uses. so its definitely doable in general. I'm just not sure what it would take to implement something like that in ESO. but it would be so damn nice, especially now that I think of several times where I had one of my guilds's training trial runs canceled, becasue on that particular day, only 8 people signed up. imagine... if a trial scales to those 8 people, so you don't have to cancel ANYTHING.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***2 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly it wouldn’t surprise me if ZoS completely ignored the feedback.4