Solo dungeon mode, please

bharathitman

Dungeons and Trials are building blocks of an MMORPG, they are re-usable content, people run them again and again and again for fun or for that loot. These are the things that keep an MMORPG alive, make people login everyday to do pledges and what not. Remove this and you have zero reasons to play this game daily and at the end of the day this is very bad for business.

If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? Frankly speaking, ZOS has done far more than any other MMORPG publisher to support their casual/tes fan base. You might as well finish the dungeons in story mode during a free ESO+ weekend and then never get back to it again.

There are so many social guilds in ESO, just find 3 other like minded people and port to that dungeon in normal mode. You can even light attack everything and you will still be able to complete it.

adriant1978

bharathitman wrote: »

.
If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? .

Umm ... for the drops? The achievements? The unlocks you get for doing hard mode?

You did read the OP and see that the proposed story mode would award none of these things, right?

josiahva

This is a circular argument, its not going to change...if you want to solo dungeons...get good enough to solo dungeons...otherwise ask a couple of friends to do a story mode run with you. You have access to over 1000 people with 5 guilds and 100 person friend list...surely you can find 2 or 3 willing to help you out as they watch netflix

Jayne_Doe

Linaleah wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Wildberryjack wrote: »

There are solo "dungeons", they're called Delves. Dungeons are meant for groups and should stay that way.

Did you even read my post? Or was it just title? Seems so.

I did read it. You're complaining about not wanting to play in a group, well this isn't a single player game, it is a MMO. There will be and should be group content. No, not everything should be soloable.

it should have a solo option where half your content releases are dungeon only ESPECIALY when you tie overreaching story for the entire year TO THEM.. it devalues ESO plus and it discourages people who would rather buy DLC's outright - from buying them.

Exactly! I have ESO+, but there is only ONE DLC each year that I play. It used to be 2, until they turned one of them into a chapter that you either had to purchase or wait an entire year to play as part of ESO+.

But, when they are tying an overarching story to the dungeon DLCs, then a good number of players will be missing out on half of the story. Unless they have some sort of dialog or trailer made available to us that recaps events that those who don't do dungeons will miss, we'll be in the dark. I suppose they're hoping that by doing this, they'll get more players to do DLC dungeons. If so, they will be sorely mistaken.

Also, I don't see why those who do dungeons would even care if there were a story mode. It doesn't affect them in the slightest. It's not like they'll lose a lot of potential groupmates to do dungeons with. In fact, they'll probably see less players holding them back because they want to experience the story. I recall reading a thread about the problem of being kicked before you could view the ending of a dungeon's story and not getting the skill point because everyone else had already left the dungeon. The response to the request to change it so that remaining players are not immediately kicked? Solo the dungeon on your own time.

Well, give us a story mode where we can solo the dungeon and experience the story. It doesn't affect other players in the slightest. I wouldn't even care if I didn't get the skillpoint. But, maybe it would have the skillpoint (since one a dungeon quest is completed, it can't be done again on that character) and the gear that is rewarded - but have it be white or maybe green quality.

adriant1978

josiahva wrote: »

This is a circular argument, its not going to change

It can change if enough people ask for it. People asked for a Necromancer class and now we're getting one.

Agenericname

bharathitman wrote: »

Dungeons and Trials are building blocks of an MMORPG, they are re-usable content, people run them again and again and again for fun or for that loot. These are the things that keep an MMORPG alive, make people login everyday to do pledges and what not. Remove this and you have zero reasons to play this game daily and at the end of the day this is very bad for business.

If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? Frankly speaking, ZOS has done far more than any other MMORPG published to support their casual/tes fan base. You might as well finish the dungeons in story mode during a free ESO+ weekend and then never get back to it again.

Gear, monster helms, the challenge of some of them, and daily pledges. Story mode would be more like a one-time-use piece of content and the replay value would be rather low compared to running City of Ash for a Burning Spellweave inferno staff, but so are most quests. Those quests are also a corner stone in many MMORPGs.

I've done all of the dungeons in this game multiple times, almost all on vet/hm. I would still run some in story mode just to see the story. It wouldn't affect the replay for me. For those that it would, many were only going to do them once anyway for the skill point, monster helm, quest etc, so it's only adding to the queue one time in those cases.

Adding "story mode" under the conditions presented by the OP wouldn't necessarily change the replay value of the regular dungeons.

zaria

Why don't the other players hear the dialogue in the quest? Add the selected question from player as text.
That way you can 1) experience the quest again if you missed out or did a long time ago.
2) show how far player is in quest and
3) show if player is skipping dialogue or not so you determine if you just wait 10 seconds or start to clear trash
(don't do this on new players as is stress them up)

Not against an solo mode, however its just not to scale enemies like an public dungeon.
Many dungeons has mechanics who can not be soloed like Banish cell 2.
As I understand one of the upcoming dungeons has an sort of mechanical mouse phase like the quest in CWC who require multiple players.

TokenIntellect

Faulgor wrote: »

Only if we get a properly rewarded higher difficulty mode for overland content in turn. Otherwise, dumbing this game down even further sends the wrong message.

I'm playing solo most of the time too, and there is nothing in this game for solo players that's actually fun or challenging except vMA.

How is asking for a solo mode in any way "dumbing this game down?" If you read through this thread, you'll see that the vast majority of people advocating for a solo/story mode for dungeons (specifically Wrathstone) are not asking for them to be easy, we're asking for it to be possible (and possible doesn't mean only available to elites with the best gear, solid groups, and all the time in the world wait for someone to read, interact with NPCs, and actually appreciate all the artistry that went in to making the dungeon in the first place).

Also look at the PTS feedback; it's not just that they designed the new dungeons to be four man or that normal difficulty today is the vet difficulty of a few years ago, it's also that they designed the bosses with one-shot mechanics.

And, I'll just throw this at you. I'm playing solo nearly all the time and there's plenty that's actually fun and challenging to me. You do not speak for everyone and neither do I. But for myself, I'm not going to pay for Elsweyr or ESO+ if I can't actually meaningfully use 2/3rds of what I'm paying for.

Linaleah

Universe wrote: »

Solo group dungeon mode feature was proposed many times in the past, this is not the first discussion nor will it be the last.
Hopefully, The Developers will realize the importance of such mode and implement it in Q2/Q3/Q4 this year.
The reward should be limited, maybe not even the skill point(read the reason below).

The only downside to the story mode which may be the reason why the developers didn't implement such a feature is the fear that such story mode may cause many players to simply never group for dungeons.
I know for a fact that the skill points earned by doing the normal group dungeons is one of the motivators for grouping up in the first place and by doing so the player is learning in the process about the undaunted guild and related features.

So if such a story mode will exist, there is a chance that fewer players will actually bother grouping with other players and this will be very bad for the game, which for the most part is an MMO.
The only way to implement a group dungeon story mode without damaging the grouping in ESO is by making it reward only experience and limited reward for completion.

I would argue that people who only do dungeons for the skillpoint, are not the people who continue to do dungeons once they got that skillpoint even today with dungeons being group only. skillpoint is a one time thing no matter what, it is NOT why people keep doing group dungeons. and so keeping it from solo mode is not going to protect grouping in ESO.

however... because apparently skill point is the last argument against solo mode you all have, but getting that skillpoint is STILL problematic due to quest design and that whole dungeon kick thing on group disband we have going. I propose that IF skillpoint should be kept out of solo mode, then it should be detached from quest completion all together and instead attached to first dungeon completion achievement.

people who don't want to group for dungeons? do NOT group for dungeons skillpoint or not. people who do like group for dungeons? will continue to group for dungeons even if they can get skillpoint solo (which in some cases - they do anyways, since they can solo most things on normal, its just not all of us can) but as a compromise. keep rewards for solo mode dungeon about same as if you finished a side quest in a open world zone. just as long as there as at least SOME use for 2 out of 3 DLC releases in a year for solo players.

P.S. back when MMO's required grouping for all things, they were an incredibly niche genre. you know when MMO's exploded in popularity? when little known MMO called World of Warcraft came along and made vast VAST majority of its content? SOLOABLE and more casual friendly. and I know there will be some of you who will go "and it ruined everything, it ruined mmo's" and that's just like... your opinion, but the reality is that MMO's that keep trying to "must group" mentality ONLY survive if they accept that their audience is going to be extremely niche and their publishers are ok with that.

Blutengel

I am all for this because I would love to go back and experience the story I missed out on during the run where dialog was cut off or people were waiting and I had to skip. There is a ton of dialog in some of the older dungeons and so many things you miss out on when you button mash on to the next boss.

Casdha

I don't understand how folks keep thinking that those advocating for a Story/Normal, Normal/easier mode are asking for something to be removed. No one is asking to remove anything, they are asking for something to be added.

As far as replay all I can give you is my personal perspective. The reason I haven't done most dungeons is that I don't want spoilers. The times I have grouped those I have grouped with have already done the dungeon and some of the quests elements are no longer there for them which in turn on one dungeon caused me to miss things (even though they were a good guild and didn't mind waiting on me to do my thing) I still got to the end and did not get credit for the quest because I missed something in the middle. To this day I have no idea what I missed.

I don't like spoilers, but I do like playing with friends. So my answer is that I don't do group dungeons (at least not many). If I were able to play them myself the first time, I'm the type of person that I would then be able to join in on the group fun and look for gear and hard to get style materials for my crafter. So in my case a Solo mode would add me to the roster of those who do group content, who wouldn't mind to PUG or join in on group Activities.

Side note: I love Battle Grounds when I'm in the mood for them, but they have no story what so ever inside the match. PvP doesn't bother me either. I've done most of the questing stuff there solo, you may have to worry about getting ganked, but that can mostly be avoided if you wait until your alliance has control of the area you want to explore.

The Same can not be said about Group dungeons, if you go in there with a group the story is ,99% of the time, ruined.

Edit: thinks to self, I should check out PTS and the new quest tracking system, maybe it can tell me what I missed.

haloufe007

bharathitman wrote: »

Dungeons and Trials are building blocks of an MMORPG, they are re-usable content, people run them again and again and again for fun or for that loot. These are the things that keep an MMORPG alive, make people login everyday to do pledges and what not. Remove this and you have zero reasons to play this game daily and at the end of the day this is very bad for business.

If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? Frankly speaking, ZOS has done far more than any other MMORPG publisher to support their casual/tes fan base. You might as well finish the dungeons in story mode during a free ESO+ weekend and then never get back to it again.

There are so many social guilds in ESO, just find 3 other like minded people and port to that dungeon in normal mode. You can even light attack everything and you will still be able to complete it.

you mean that ZOS want us to stay in the MMo. and with the group dungeons that forces us to stay here. and we are forced to group with you to do the group dungeon ....
we are free, and I buy the game because I like ES stories
for your information I buy all DLC dungeon but I have visited only 2% dungeon group despite my +1100 hours of games and I will go to dungeon only solo at first for the story.
I do not care about the loot, I do not care about the power of my character

haloufe007

zaria wrote: »

Why don't the other players hear the dialogue in the quest? Add the selected question from player as text.
That way you can 1) experience the quest again if you missed out or did a long time ago.
2) show how far player is in quest and
3) show if player is skipping dialogue or not so you determine if you just wait 10 seconds or start to clear trash
(don't do this on new players as is stress them up)

Not against an solo mode, however its just not to scale enemies like an public dungeon.
Many dungeons has mechanics who can not be soloed like Banish cell 2.
As I understand one of the upcoming dungeons has an sort of mechanical mouse phase like the quest in CWC who require multiple players.

Many dungeons has mechanics who can not be soloed
there is no mechanics
there is a capitalism
you pay to have a good time
with the dungeon solo we will have no mechanism

haloufe007

we are told that solo dungeon kills the MMO game
no no no
what kills a mmo,
1- It is an artist who is not competent or who does not do his job properly.
2- With the technology the customers need with the time games more beautiful, bigger and more immersive
3- with time and competition TESO will die

and it's not a simple solo player who will be responsible for the 3rd world war

Kagukan

Casdha wrote: »

I don't understand how folks keep thinking that those advocating for a Story/Normal, Normal/easier mode are asking for something to be removed. No one is asking to remove anything, they are asking for something to be added.

IKR. No one is losing anything and many are gaining something. Odd that anyone would have a problem with something like this.

Hymzir

Going through the posts in this thread, it's quite obvious that a lot of people simply do not understand, that for many of us, the story is the reward for doing a dungeon. Monster helms, gear set, motif pages and even the skill point is just incidental bonus on the side. The real reward is being able to enjoy the story. And the way dialogue is set up, and how quest stages work, in this game, it is excruciatingly difficult to pull off. And thus, a lot of us, simply choose to not do them at all. And many of those who choose not to do them at all, still pay for them via monthly subs. Me included.

The only other choice is to go and solo the dam dungeon, and that is not an option open for everyone. I can do it, but it's still tedious and takes forever, and I would much prefer separate settings for item farming with groups, and story appreciation mode when going in solo. That way you can also enjoy the architecture of the place, and maybe even take few screenshots of the place as a memento, at your own leisure.

So either ZOS needs to stop placing story based quests into dungeons in the first place (I mean, what's the point? Wast majority of hardcore dungeon players ignore them altogether.), or give story focused players an option to go through them at our own pace.

Casdha

It seems to me that if this was ever to be put in, they would have to do what they did with Craglorn and reset the quests (but this time as an option not forced).

From what I gather from these threads, there are plenty of people here who have already got credit for the quests and didn't get to enjoy them. If they just made Story/easy mode and you have already done the quest it would do you no good to have this option unless they let you reset the quest. (Edit: at least not for the ones you've already have marked complete)

Unless the quests reset daily with the dungeon, I don't think they do but I'm not sure.

Koronach

Casdha wrote: »

It seems to me that if this was ever to be put in, they would have to do what they did with Craglorn and reset the quests (but this time as an option not forced).

From what I gather from these threads, there are plenty of people here who have already got credit for the quests and didn't get to enjoy them. If they just made Story/easy mode and you have already done the quest it would do you no good to have this option unless they let you reset the quest. (Edit: at least not for the ones you've already have marked complete)

Unless the quests reset daily with the dungeon, I don't think they do but I'm not sure.

I mean people do have alts they can redo them on, or story mode instance could be separate. The quest could always reset in that mode. When you go back in normal or vet the quest will be there again for the actual skill point and reward and in those modes it will be one and done, but story mode will always be replayable with no drops, rewards, or exp. I'm not sure if this was suggested the thread was long.

Faulgor

TokenIntellect wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Only if we get a properly rewarded higher difficulty mode for overland content in turn. Otherwise, dumbing this game down even further sends the wrong message.

I'm playing solo most of the time too, and there is nothing in this game for solo players that's actually fun or challenging except vMA.

How is asking for a solo mode in any way "dumbing this game down?" If you read through this thread, you'll see that the vast majority of people advocating for a solo/story mode for dungeons (specifically Wrathstone) are not asking for them to be easy, we're asking for it to be possible (and possible doesn't mean only available to elites with the best gear, solid groups, and all the time in the world wait for someone to read, interact with NPCs, and actually appreciate all the artistry that went in to making the dungeon in the first place).

Also look at the PTS feedback; it's not just that they designed the new dungeons to be four man or that normal difficulty today is the vet difficulty of a few years ago, it's also that they designed the bosses with one-shot mechanics.

And, I'll just throw this at you. I'm playing solo nearly all the time and there's plenty that's actually fun and challenging to me. You do not speak for everyone and neither do I. But for myself, I'm not going to pay for Elsweyr or ESO+ if I can't actually meaningfully use 2/3rds of what I'm paying for.

Sorry if that term offended you, but I meant dumbing down in the sense of making elements of the game even easier than they already are. It just doesn't feel fair to open up difficult content for solo questers without giving more advanced players something as well when the vast, vast majority of the game can be played with light attacks and 1 skill on your bar.

And yes, it would be easier, obviously. It is already possible to solo most normal dungeons (except those with specific mechanics that require at least 2 people), so I'm not sure what you mean by that. I've done it, but there's not much point to it. If you say that's unreasonably hard ("only available to elites") you're literally asking for them to be easier. Which is fine, I just don't understand why you would claim otherwise?

TBH, trials are more of an issue in this regard, because those are actually impossible to solo. I think. And like dungeons with group-focused mechanics, they can't be made soloable that easily. It would require a complete overhaul of many encounters, which is a considerable effort for the dev team.

Annoying one-shot mechanics are something else entirely, those aren't fun on any difficulty level. Which is why I don't think the hardmodes in the last few dungeon DLCs have been enjoyable (Falkreath Hold was the last one I liked).

I might not speak for everyone, but a higher difficult setting for overland content is one of the most requested features, so I'm hardly alone in this. And likewise, it wouldn't take anything away from you.

So what's the harm in asking for both - group dungeons that can be completed by solo questers, and overland content that is engaging for more advanced players? Because as it is, advanced solo players can't meaningfully enjoy 3/3 of what they're paying for - dungeons and trials are group content, and everything else is too easy.

spartaxoxo

I agree with this completely.

MikaHR

adriant1978 wrote: »

bharathitman wrote: »

.
If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? .

Umm ... for the drops? The achievements? The unlocks you get for doing hard mode?

You did read the OP and see that the proposed story mode would award none of these things, right?

No no no, all those rushers are doing it for the story...every....single...speedrun!

What he doesnt realize that people can run DLC dungeons once "and never come back to it" during "Free ESO+ week"...now

I wonder if he went back to rea his post to realize how hilarious he sounds.

MikaHR

bharathitman wrote: »

Dungeons and Trials are building blocks of an MMORPG, they are re-usable content, people run them again and again and again for fun or for that loot. These are the things that keep an MMORPG alive, make people login everyday to do pledges and what not. Remove this and you have zero reasons to play this game daily and at the end of the day this is very bad for business.

If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? Frankly speaking, ZOS has done far more than any other MMORPG publisher to support their casual/tes fan base. You might as well finish the dungeons in story mode during a free ESO+ weekend and then never get back to it again.

There are so many social guilds in ESO, just find 3 other like minded people and port to that dungeon in normal mode. You can even light attack everything and you will still be able to complete it.

vast majority od ESO playebase plays this game daily and never touches dungeons ....which is huge $$ loss for ZOS and waste of development time and resources because they are not interested in shelling their hard earn $$ for "dungeon DLCs"....and thats why ZOS made PAID expansions and "dungeon DLC+" were a net loss.

Why dont you go and play WIldstar....game specifically made for you....oh wait!

tunepunk

I've been playing since 2014 and havn't done any DLC dungeons yet, except white gold tower. The other's I'vee done the all the normal ones, and a couple of vet ones because I wanted the head piece from them.

I often do the normal base game dungeons solo for undaunted keys.

I'm not sure if the DLC ones are soloable or not on normal since I havn't tried yet.

Don't get me wrong... I do like the MMO aspects of this game, and I do a bit if PVP (mostly battlegrounds) but I also wouldn't mind more solo friendly versions of dungeons. At least all normal version, should be soloable..

eklhaftb16_ESO

bharathitman wrote: »

Dungeons and Trials are building blocks of an MMORPG, they are re-usable content, people run them again and again and again for fun or for that loot. These are the things that keep an MMORPG alive, make people login everyday to do pledges and what not. Remove this and you have zero reasons to play this game daily and at the end of the day this is very bad for business.

If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? Frankly speaking, ZOS has done far more than any other MMORPG publisher to support their casual/tes fan base. You might as well finish the dungeons in story mode during a free ESO+ weekend and then never get back to it again.

Um. You will still have the same reason to run dungeons repeatedly: to get your rewards, or to have your boss encounter rush, or whatever you do it for. The rest of us, who aren't interested in instanced Skinner boxes, will simply play through the story in our our separate solo story instance, and then we promptly forget about dungeons, just as we do now. Boom, everybody's happy.

Your gaming style is in no way threatened by giving us our own game mode. We aren't interested in playing your dungeons with you. We don't care for running the same tiny instance eighty five times a day to get a random piece of gear to get 0.005% increase in DPS. We are only interested in doing the quest. In other words, our interests are not intersecting, and they are not mutually exclusive. Saying that we can't have solo dungeons because it would hurt group dungeons is like saying that people in Africa can't play drums because people in Japan want to sleep.

jainiadral

bharathitman wrote: »

Dungeons and Trials are building blocks of an MMORPG, they are re-usable content, people run them again and again and again for fun or for that loot. These are the things that keep an MMORPG alive, make people login everyday to do pledges and what not. Remove this and you have zero reasons to play this game daily and at the end of the day this is very bad for business.

If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? Frankly speaking, ZOS has done far more than any other MMORPG publisher to support their casual/tes fan base. You might as well finish the dungeons in story mode during a free ESO+ weekend and then never get back to it again.

There are so many social guilds in ESO, just find 3 other like minded people and port to that dungeon in normal mode. You can even light attack everything and you will still be able to complete it.

And of all things I really don't understand in this vast, wide universe is why anyone would choose to do this stuff over and over for "fun." I must have run (solo, ofc) Master Mode Black Talon in SWTOR about sixty times on the endless journey to reach GC 300. I did it to unlock a passive so I'd never have to do it again. Repeating dungeons ad nauseum is the opposite of durable for me. It makes me hate a game-- denting its luster until it's beyond repair. And that's when it has a lot of repeatable story attached to it.

Story is what makes content like this fun, which is why I run everything solo. The rest of the stuff-- rewards, gear-- is all window dressing. I'd probably repeat a solo dungeon with full story a couple of times (or more) per toon. But I'd rather be jabbed in the eye with a red hot poker than group up for speed runs with no stops for storytime.

Yuck.

Imryll

bharathitman wrote: »

Dungeons and Trials are building blocks of an MMORPG, they are re-usable content, people run them again and again and again for fun or for that loot. These are the things that keep an MMORPG alive, make people login everyday to do pledges and what not. Remove this and you have zero reasons to play this game daily and at the end of the day this is very bad for business.

If ZOS implements story mode then what reason is there for us to run the same dungeon twice? Frankly speaking, ZOS has done far more than any other MMORPG publisher to support their casual/tes fan base. You might as well finish the dungeons in story mode during a free ESO+ weekend and then never get back to it again.

There are so many social guilds in ESO, just find 3 other like minded people and port to that dungeon in normal mode. You can even light attack everything and you will still be able to complete it.

Is anyone suggesting that group activities or rewards be removed? How is it a loss to the game if folks who aren't running dungeons at all only run them once in story mode? How is it a given that someone who has explored a dungeon in story mode won't develop an interest in the different challenges of completing it in a group? If folks genuinely prefer group play, why would they choose to run dungeons once in story mode and never run them again in the mode they supposedly prefer--and which may offer different rewards?

Olith

LiraTaurwen wrote: »

Yes indeed, times have changed and so have people. That doesn't mean that MMOs these days should not have a balance of both, and ESO kinda of has. My point was to explain that the more solo content and options you have the less people will socialize and need eachother, and then you get a bad community and people who join a group don't say a word and just rush.

I believe the most anti-fun comes from players with incompatible playing styles being forced into random groups. It would be less frustrating, therefore more fun and better for the community (for both sides) if they could be separated somehow.

Casdha

(Spoilers)

I'm wondering, how many folks who have played this dungeon saw everything in this video?
Did you See more? Did you skip most of it?

Story Spoilers in Video as it is a short video that contains all of the dialog for the beginning of the quest.

Also wondering from those who have completed it, Is this still there the second time you ran it?

https://youtu.be/1orLHz2g4fQ

Artim_X

Casdha wrote: »

(Spoilers)

I'm wondering, how many folks who have played this dungeon saw everything in this video?
Did you See more? Did you skip most of it?

Story Spoilers in Video as it is a short video that contains all of the dialog for the beginning of the quest.

Also wondering from those who have completed it, Is this still there the second time you ran it?

https://youtu.be/1orLHz2g4fQ

The first time I ran through the new dungeons was with a random group via the queue. We took our sweet time admiring everything the dungeons had to offer. The dialogue is still there the second time around.

wsmith97ub17_ESO

Yes for solo

Been here from the beginning and still have not had the chance to absorb any of the lore due to pug life.