Seriously though, I would love it if we could get a week with no snares (suppressed by battle spirit) in PvP content just to see what it looks like.
Movespeed is still way too slow and sluggish and Snares / immobilises still run rampant through PvP. Trying to fight someone feels like you're running through treacle and most movespeed buffs feel redundant when you're snared 50% constantly.
Snare removals / snare immunity like Shuffle lasting only 2 seconds is ridiculous as it pretty much means that if you want to have any speed at all in PvP you're spamming Forward Momentum or Shuffle constantly. Does ZOS expect us to just expend 3000 Stamina every 2 seconds so we can actually move?
Trying to fight someone feels clunky and awkward as half the time you're awkwardly plodding towards and around them due to so many snares. It was bad in Murkmire and could really do with some addressing this patch, at least extending the immunity of snares on certain abilities and making it more accessible. There's now what? 2 abilities that make you immune to snares? And they last a fewof seconds!?
If this problem remains PvP will continue to lose players as combat just doesn't feel fast, reactive or dynamic anymore as everyone is just walking towards each other at 1 mile per hour.
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus
How about changing the swift trade to reduce snares.
1 swift reduces the duration of snares applied to you by 0.3 sec per light or medium armor(1.5 sec for 5med/light) and the effectiveness of ground snares by 20%
That would mean would have to specifically build for movement, be "squishy" aka medium/light and have to sacrifice 3 jewelery traits to get snare immunity.
How about changing the swift trade to reduce snares.
1 swift reduces the duration of snares applied to you by 0.3 sec per light or medium armor(1.5 sec for 5med/light) and the effectiveness of ground snares by 20%
That would mean would have to specifically build for movement, be "squishy" aka medium/light and have to sacrifice 3 jewelery traits to get snare immunity.
Sandman929 wrote: »I really wouldn't want that because it's only a benefit to one specific kind of player. Just like the overkill to mobility nerfing in Murkmire only hit small group/solo players, this "fix" would only benefit them. Nobody likes their entire gaming experience under a cloud of slows, which is what we have right now. In Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds, it feels like you are slowed to some degree 100% of the time, and it's just annoying.
IMO, roots feel strategic (although the immunity is a little too short), stuns feel strategic, snares feel strategic in a very small engagement and ramp up incredibly fast from strategic to a complete annoyance because snares are everywhere.
How about changing the swift trade to reduce snares.
1 swift reduces the duration of snares applied to you by 0.3 sec per light or medium armor(1.5 sec for 5med/light) and the effectiveness of ground snares by 20%
That would mean would have to specifically build for movement, be "squishy" aka medium/light and have to sacrifice 3 jewelery traits to get snare immunity.
Crixus8000 wrote: »Preemptive Immunity is one of the major problems with the movement system. Because as it exists, snares, when active, have to be powerful to counteract the fact that they can be completely prevented. (And no, "the just remove snares only my playstyle should be valid types are wrong") So you get a very feast/famine issue where some builds can flat out ignore the one counter to their playstyle (was way worse with 8s fm) and others are snares 60/70% permanently
What they should instead do is reduce snare potency to 30/10% major and minor. And make immunity abilities continue to remove snares/roots, but instead of granting 100% immunity it'd half snare potency for say 20 sec. It'd be way better overall to be snared at a max of 30/40% with the option to lower it to 15/20% as opposed to 60/70% ones.
Roots need to have a longer after removal immunity and no preemptive one. A mag build being rooted every 2s is basically ***. Up the after removal immunity to 4s and have it apply when removed any way instead of just roll dodges. So stuff like purging it would apply the 4s immunity too.
This should be fine but everytime I think about a balance other than just removing the snare I can't see it working. Bascially pvp atm is snared = dead. Always outnumbered, too many proc sets that do ult level damage, bleeds, oblivion, 10k snipes, 25k soul assaults ect if you can't use los to help against these things then your just dead everytime.
I agree. I would propose to change it by making only the strongest snare take effect, overriding the other snares. So if you were hit with a 70% snare and a 40% snare then only the 70% one would affect you.
PvP Players: Snares are OP!
ZoS: Here is Curse Breaker.
PvP Players: Curse Breaker is OP!
...
Seriously though, I would love it if we could get a week with no snares (suppressed by battle spirit) in PvP content just to see what it looks like.
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Im just gonna go ahead and counter some of this. Yes the speed pot meta was out of control, no one is saying that it didn't need to be balanced and on one wants it back? When we say mobility needs to be looked at that primarily means snares right now. Next, FM is still very helpful however shuffle is not. Two seconds is so bad and shuffle is so expensive for what it provides that using mistform on a medium armor build is almost better (almost), and some good players do use it. Quick cloak is also a very viable option in place of shuffle because shuffle is trash right now. So we are not "covered." 4 seconds of immunity would not make shuffle OP, it would actually work to balance the still prevalent heavy armor meta. Having the AoE damage reduction is in a good spot neither OP or under performing and it has no bearing on any single target damage so it's very situationally useful. For magic toons you can't just go attaching snare immunity to class skills. If there is going to be snare immunity it needs to require an extra slot just like stam toons i.e. mistform but it shouldn't be attached to vampire either. DK wings is fine as is. NBs DO NOT need cloak to remove snares (mostly because of stamblades), the warden suggestion could work out.
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Im just gonna go ahead and counter some of this. Yes the speed pot meta was out of control, no one is saying that it didn't need to be balanced and on one wants it back? When we say mobility needs to be looked at that primarily means snares right now. Next, FM is still very helpful however shuffle is not. Two seconds is so bad and shuffle is so expensive for what it provides that using mistform on a medium armor build is almost better (almost), and some good players do use it. Quick cloak is also a very viable option in place of shuffle because shuffle is trash right now. So we are not "covered." 4 seconds of immunity would not make shuffle OP, it would actually work to balance the still prevalent heavy armor meta. Having the AoE damage reduction is in a good spot neither OP or under performing and it has no bearing on any single target damage so it's very situationally useful. For magic toons you can't just go attaching snare immunity to class skills. If there is going to be snare immunity it needs to require an extra slot just like stam toons i.e. mistform but it shouldn't be attached to vampire either. DK wings is fine as is. NBs DO NOT need cloak to remove snares (mostly because of stamblades), the warden suggestion could work out.
The ideas I gave are suggestions to get players thinking of options. It is worthless to complain about snares without having a meaningful conversation about them. Nothing wrong with having snares, long a everyone has the option to equip cleanses for snares.
I agree NB cloak cleanse would strong. I am all ears to a better suggestion.
Mistform is way to strong in it current form. My suggestion would put the snare and speed on 1 morph and the damage reduction on the other morph.
AoE damage reduction is a strong mechanic. ZOS has even talked about reducing it themselves to 15%. I am just worried about 1 skill getting to strong. I agree shuffle needs a snare immunity buff.
I just want a conversation that give ideas and if someone does not like them give a counter idea.
Synapsis123 wrote: »In a thread complaining about snares being too powerful you want to remove one of the only good ones magicka has left. With rapids gone we are left with either two hander forward momentum or mist form. Both of these options pigeonhole us into either having to use a two hander instead of a resto staff/snb or taking way more fire damage and not having any life regen.
Something players had too much of in a previous patch and now they are crying over it being nerfed because they can't run lightning fast with their max resist stam builds stacking a bunch of damage anymore.
I love how snares are an bigger issue now since stamina based characters and players have come down to the level of magic based characters and players. While I agree snares and root needs a better immunity and cleanse system than there current form. Movement speed does not need a rework unless we are going add time to current skills that have major expedition.
Speed pots need to stay the way they are. In a 1v1 it is not right for a stamina based toon to have 100% up time on major expedition when they have the stamina to sprint versus magic toon that does not have the stamina pool to sprint. That being said 1vX and small scale pvp have been hurt by the reduction times of major expedition.
I like the idea of major and minor snares based on what the values are. If the values are to large it can be worse than the current system. I favor a 30% major snare and 15% minor.
CP is one way to fix this. Unfortunately our current system of cp players do not have to make tough decisions. I would love to see CP have a node where you reduce snare effects by 0-50%, so the snare is still applied just not as strong. Then we run across the issue of no-cp PvP, So each class needs to have a way to remove snares and roots.
Snare and root removal need to be built in class kits. DK is the only class that is guaranteed snare removal. Templars can cleanse them but Extended Ritual cleanse 5 negative effects and I dont know it priorities what effects to cleanse. Warden are the next class that has a chance to cleanse snares, but once again the the netch priority is not know to me and it is only 1 effect.
Since most stamina toons have have access to snare removal using either Forward Momentum and Shuffle they are covered. I think Shuffle need it snare immunity increased but not until it is reworked because a skill wit major evasion and 4 second snare immunity would be real strong.
For magic based toons:
1: Sorc remove the major exp or Lighting Form and add snare removal.
2: Templar has Ritual and they just might have to recast to get the snare off based on what was cleansed.
3: Dragon Knight has wings maybe just increase the time.
4. Nightblade maybe remove the auto crit to from cloak and add the clease back onto it. This would be strong option. The other idea is to remove the heal of siphoning strikes and add snare immunity. there are a few more options.
5. Wardens can have the snare reduction removed from there passive and have snare immunity add to Crystallized Slab. This make the Warden choose between Major Heroism and Snare immunity.
By all mean I dont have the answer for everything but This is a very important topic for all players in PvP and PvE.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »we just more counterplay. nerfing snares would really screw with PvE. especially because they are actually okay. we just need a little more access to removal/immunity. nerfing snares would make them almost worthless.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »we just more counterplay. nerfing snares would really screw with PvE. especially because they are actually okay. we just need a little more access to removal/immunity. nerfing snares would make them almost worthless.
Snares was fine before ZOS went overboard with all the mobility nerfs. And how on earth would a nerf to snares affect PvE??? Snares has literally 0 practical usage in PvE.
ESO_Nightingale wrote: »ESO_Nightingale wrote: »we just more counterplay. nerfing snares would really screw with PvE. especially because they are actually okay. we just need a little more access to removal/immunity. nerfing snares would make them almost worthless.
Snares was fine before ZOS went overboard with all the mobility nerfs. And how on earth would a nerf to snares affect PvE??? Snares has literally 0 practical usage in PvE.
Tanks use snares to help control a group of adds to round them up. Templars and Nightblades have to use snares more effectively than any other tanks as they don't have an AoE immobilisation tool.