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Snares are still way too prevalent

  • Mashille
    Mashille
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    @Crixus8000

    Agreed. Even if snares were made major and minor, without Immunity, bth debuffs would be stacked on you full time, keeping the problem just as bad as it is now.
    House Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'
  • Rygonix
    Rygonix
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    Now that rapids is being gutted there is some reason to loosen the noose on the other snare-removals perhaps ZoS?
    Ceres Des Mortem-Dark Elf Templar, EP
    PC-NA 810+CP
  • Lichbourne90
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    Major/minor is a HORRIBLE idea. Snares do not stack on you currently. Higher snares overwrite others. A major minor system would be far worse. Careful what you ask for....
  • Mashille
    Mashille
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    Major/minor is a HORRIBLE idea. Snares do not stack on you currently. Higher snares overwrite others. A major minor system would be far worse. Careful what you ask for....

    That's why I didn't ask for them and am so against them.
    House Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'
  • Pevey
    Pevey
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    The new Curse Eater set is a partial response to the toxic snare meta and removal of snare clearance from rapids morph, but all people on the forums do is whine nerf it, nerf it, before we even have a chance to see how it performs versus the current over abundance of snares.
  • Lichbourne90
    Lichbourne90
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    Mashille wrote: »
    Major/minor is a HORRIBLE idea. Snares do not stack on you currently. Higher snares overwrite others. A major minor system would be far worse. Careful what you ask for....

    That's why I didn't ask for them and am so against them.

    Sorry, should've quoted the person that did.
  • grannas211
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    Pevey wrote: »
    The new Curse Eater set is a partial response to the toxic snare meta and removal of snare clearance from rapids morph, but all people on the forums do is whine nerf it, nerf it, before we even have a chance to see how it performs versus the current over abundance of snares.

    No this is not how you fix the insane snare and slow you to a crawl gameplay we have going on right now.

  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Here’s hoping Elsweyr brings some real combat changes, this patch was always going to focus on racial balances.
  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Crixus8000 wrote: »
    Snares are very overpowered, especially when your outnumbered. No matter what speed you have snares counter it, speed does not counter snares. When you have multiple people fighting you, you get snared so much you can hardly move, like your stuck still, and all immunity skills have such a short cooldown and leaves little time to go offensive, heal/buff before you need to use immunity again.

    And snares are also very buggy, often ignoring immunity forcing you to spam forward/ shuffle so much, wasting your gcs and resources. Plus it just makes combat boring, I find it much less fun being forced to press a certain skill every 4 seconds (usually more often due to bugs) just to be able to even move.
    veil_ wrote: »
    Remove *immunity* to snares /immobilizes, nothing should be immune to something.

    Without immunity speed would be completely dead, stam would be basically dead. If your snared you need to remove it to be able to move again. Even if snares had a major minor system what would major be ? 30% ? Because if you had a 30% snare and couldn't move it would be way harder for stam to land any attacks and basically impossible to escape people chasing you down.

    Preemptive Immunity is one of the major problems with the movement system. Because as it exists, snares, when active, have to be powerful to counteract the fact that they can be completely prevented. (And no, "the just remove snares only my playstyle should be valid types are wrong") So you get a very feast/famine issue where some builds can flat out ignore the one counter to their playstyle (was way worse with 8s fm) and others are snares 60/70% permanently

    What they should instead do is reduce snare potency to 30/10% major and minor. And make immunity abilities continue to remove snares/roots, but instead of granting 100% immunity it'd half snare potency for say 20 sec. It'd be way better overall to be snared at a max of 30/40% with the option to lower it to 15/20% as opposed to 60/70% ones.

    Roots need to have a longer after removal immunity and no preemptive one. A mag build being rooted every 2s is basically ***. Up the after removal immunity to 4s and have it apply when removed any way instead of just roll dodges. So stuff like purging it would apply the 4s immunity too.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Mashille
    Mashille
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    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Diminishing return. I've been mentioning this for a while, take a page out of WoW's book and copy their CC immunity system. WoW today has many flaws and ESO is the better overall game, but despite its many flaws, the CC system they have in place for PvP is not one of them. Again, we need diminishing return on snares, specifically snares...

    Here is how it works:

    You get snared once, it lasts the full duration(8 seconds).

    You get snared a second time within 20 seconds of the first snare, it lasts half(4 seconds).

    You get snared a third time within 20 seconds of the 2nd snare, and it will last just 2 seconds.

    Then there won't be a 4th time, you will be automatically immune to snares for 20 seconds after the third snare ends. If 20 seconds is too much in ESO, then reduce it by a bit. Either way, something has to be done.

    I've never played WoW but that snare reduction and immunity system sounds pretty decent. The duration would probably need reducing as the possibility of still being snared for 14 Seconds straight before gaining immunity may be a tad long but the general gist of the idea sounds good.
    House Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'
  • MaxJrFTW
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    Mashille wrote: »
    MaxJrFTW wrote: »
    Diminishing return. I've been mentioning this for a while, take a page out of WoW's book and copy their CC immunity system. WoW today has many flaws and ESO is the better overall game, but despite its many flaws, the CC system they have in place for PvP is not one of them. Again, we need diminishing return on snares, specifically snares...

    Here is how it works:

    You get snared once, it lasts the full duration(8 seconds).

    You get snared a second time within 20 seconds of the first snare, it lasts half(4 seconds).

    You get snared a third time within 20 seconds of the 2nd snare, and it will last just 2 seconds.

    Then there won't be a 4th time, you will be automatically immune to snares for 20 seconds after the third snare ends. If 20 seconds is too much in ESO, then reduce it by a bit. Either way, something has to be done.

    I've never played WoW but that snare reduction and immunity system sounds pretty decent. The duration would probably need reducing as the possibility of still being snared for 14 Seconds straight before gaining immunity may be a tad long but the general gist of the idea sounds good.

    You wouldn't always be snared for 14 seconds straight because you can cleanse it or become temporarily immune to it with things like Forward Momentum or Shuffle.
    "I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
    ―Ulrich Leland, 3E 433
  • Mashille
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    @MaxJrFTW

    Good point, I wasn't taking that into account. Then, yeah it sounds like a fine system that would really sharpen movemetn and combat up!
    House Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'
  • Crixus8000
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Preemptive Immunity is one of the major problems with the movement system. Because as it exists, snares, when active, have to be powerful to counteract the fact that they can be completely prevented. (And no, "the just remove snares only my playstyle should be valid types are wrong") So you get a very feast/famine issue where some builds can flat out ignore the one counter to their playstyle (was way worse with 8s fm) and others are snares 60/70% permanently

    What they should instead do is reduce snare potency to 30/10% major and minor. And make immunity abilities continue to remove snares/roots, but instead of granting 100% immunity it'd half snare potency for say 20 sec. It'd be way better overall to be snared at a max of 30/40% with the option to lower it to 15/20% as opposed to 60/70% ones.

    Roots need to have a longer after removal immunity and no preemptive one. A mag build being rooted every 2s is basically ***. Up the after removal immunity to 4s and have it apply when removed any way instead of just roll dodges. So stuff like purging it would apply the 4s immunity too.

    This should be fine but everytime I think about a balance other than just removing the snare I can't see it working. Bascially pvp atm is snared = dead. Always outnumbered, too many proc sets that do ult level damage, bleeds, oblivion, 10k snipes, 25k soul assaults ect if you can't use los to help against these things then your just dead everytime.

  • IxSTALKERxI
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    How about something like this?


    All snares that get applied to an enemy character from long range (reflective light, flying blade) should be reduced from 40% to 20%.

    All snares that get applied to an enemy character from melee range (stampede) should be reduced from 60% to 35%

    All ground targeted snares (cinder storm, winterborn, initial caltrops hit) should be reduced from 70% to 60%.
    Warden impaling shards & morphs increased from 30 to 60%, to be same as cinder storm.

    Sleet Storm and morphs reduced from 70% to 35%
    DK warmth passive increase from 30% to 35%


    Major Expedition should be reduced from 30% to 25%. (so it's slightly less than the snares from melee toons, can be made up for in other area's like swift jewelry etc.)
    Minor Expedition stays unchanged at 10%


    Took me like 5 mins to come up with this, so not perfect and you would need to make sure abilities still land etc... but like seriously it can't be that hard to balance it can it?
    NA | PC | Aldmeri Dominion
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  • Mashille
    Mashille
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    How about something like this?


    All snares that get applied to an enemy character from long range (reflective light, flying blade) should be reduced from 40% to 20%.

    All snares that get applied to an enemy character from melee range (stampede) should be reduced from 60% to 35%

    All ground targeted snares (cinder storm, winterborn, initial caltrops hit) should be reduced from 70% to 60%.
    Warden impaling shards & morphs increased from 30 to 60%, to be same as cinder storm.

    Sleet Storm and morphs reduced from 70% to 35%
    DK warmth passive increase from 30% to 35%


    Major Expedition should be reduced from 30% to 25%. (so it's slightly less than the snares from melee toons, can be made up for in other area's like swift jewelry etc.)
    Minor Expedition stays unchanged at 10%


    Took me like 5 mins to come up with this, so not perfect and you would need to make sure abilities still land etc... but like seriously it can't be that hard to balance it can it?

    I'm not too sure about that. When reading it through, snares still sound very prevalent and reducing Major Expedition down to 25% seems unneeded. With the idea you have, in any fight larger than a 1 v 1, snare AOE's and Snare abilities would still be on you pretty much 100% of the time, and that's one of the main issues, the fact that you're almost always perma snared, no matter what the values of the snares area. So the problem isn't really solved with this. With this the fact that some snares are still as high as 60%, in fights you can guarantee that there's are gonna affect you regularly, meaning the problem is the same as before. you It's always good to hear ideas though.
    House Baratheon: 'Ours Is The Fury'
  • Noisivid
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    11

    Edited by Noisivid on January 23, 2019 3:49PM
  • Lylith
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    I'd like to see base movement speed increased and major expedition nerfed to keep overall max speed the same. Maybe an extra 10% to base move speed.

    base speed used to be faster as was major expedition. (10 pct)
  • hyraak
    hyraak
    In my opinion snares should just be removed from the game. With that being said, overall movement speed bonuses should be decreased as well, such as people stacking swift, major and minor expedition, steed mundus, and orc racial passive. Cap bonus movement speed at say, 40%? This would allow people to have counter play, especially against zergs who want to chase you to the edge of the map. A cooldown on roots would be nice too, however, perhaps forward momentum and shuffle could give brief immunity to roots. Movement in Cyrodiil is a make or break for a lot of builds and players and most people don't find it fun to be stuck in place while 6+ people beat on you.
  • olsborg
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    If it was up to me, snares would be removed from the game. Roots are ok, but snares are just ruining the fun for everyone.
    Altmer Sorceror, magicka
    Bosmer Nightblade, stamina.
    Imperial Templar, stamina
    Redguard Warden, stamina

    Aldmeri Dominion!
    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Katahdin
    Katahdin
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    I agree the roots and snares in this game are way too OP and need to be nerfed


    Beta tester November 2013
  • Brrrofski
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    Just take snares off every *** skill.

    Give like 1 class skill (even just 1 morph) that snares and 1 morph per weapon line. There's waaaaay too many skills that add a snare. Way too many.

    Like you don't have to even account for a snare at the moment. It's not a conscious choice. Just put my normal skills on and I have 3 ways to snare people. It's stupid

    Make them all small amount like 20% and then keep powerful ones to like ultimates or change a skill so that is mainly used for a snare. Change that one morph of caltrops nobody uses to be a mega snare and some magica version so if people want to mega snare they have to actually create a spot for it.
  • VelociousLegend
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    Strength, duration, ease of applying, and available counters to snares need a pass by devs. There are so many abilities that snare and the movement speed reduction is too strong on most of them.

    Especially as a magicka build, I do not want to be forced to use a 2H or be vamp - and those counters are limited as the OP mentioned.
    Xbox - NA
    GT: VelociousLegend
    PC - NA
    @VelociousLegend

    "All gave some. Some gave all."
  • katorga
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    Snare/Roots (and really hard CC as well) should be a single purpose skill, with an opportunity cost for casting them. They should not be a by product of skills you cast as part of normal damage or buff rotations.

    This would greatly reduce the frequency of application and the feeling of playing in mud. Player complaints would drop to manageable level, and balancing between speed, snare, root, greatly simplified.
  • Sandman929
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    Snares are on everything. In any fight of any size you are always effected by a snare of some size. This is something large groups, small groups and solo players all have in common; being constantly hamstrung by snares and it really sucks a lot of fun out of combat.
    The only group source for removing and offering a short immunity to snares will be gone after this patch, I'm pretty sure that's not going to be changed.
    Murkmire went too far with nerfs to individual mobility and did nothing to group mobility, and now ZOS is correcting the wrong mistake and hitting group mobility, but even that would be fine if they also take a look at just how constant and incredibly annoying the plethora of snares are in their game.
    Solo/small scale players used swift that got nerfed, and use forward momentum and shuffle because of how annoying the snares are in this game.
    Medium/Large scale players dedicated support players because of how annoying snares are in this game.
    No one who enjoys ESO combat enjoys playing in mud, and this needs to be addressed sooner, not later.
    Daggerfall Covenant - Xbox One NA
  • Aedrion
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    Going to agree here. Everywhere you go, you're snared to death.

    Make snares reduce movespeed by less AND make that percentage not first calculate your buffed speed.
    If I have minor and major expedition with the steed stone and I get snared, I should still be able to move faster than 100%

    Save us from the roots and permasnares!
  • Cinbri
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    In addition to snare rebalance how bout change all roots instead of being 100% snare to be 70-75% snare. It helped in StarCraft.
  • simeion
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    I love how snares are an bigger issue now since stamina based characters and players have come down to the level of magic based characters and players. While I agree snares and root needs a better immunity and cleanse system than there current form. Movement speed does not need a rework unless we are going add time to current skills that have major expedition.

    Speed pots need to stay the way they are. In a 1v1 it is not right for a stamina based toon to have 100% up time on major expedition when they have the stamina to sprint versus magic toon that does not have the stamina pool to sprint. That being said 1vX and small scale pvp have been hurt by the reduction times of major expedition.

    I like the idea of major and minor snares based on what the values are. If the values are to large it can be worse than the current system. I favor a 30% major snare and 15% minor.

    CP is one way to fix this. Unfortunately our current system of cp players do not have to make tough decisions. I would love to see CP have a node where you reduce snare effects by 0-50%, so the snare is still applied just not as strong. Then we run across the issue of no-cp PvP, So each class needs to have a way to remove snares and roots.

    Snare and root removal need to be built in class kits. DK is the only class that is guaranteed snare removal. Templars can cleanse them but Extended Ritual cleanse 5 negative effects and I dont know it priorities what effects to cleanse. Warden are the next class that has a chance to cleanse snares, but once again the the netch priority is not know to me and it is only 1 effect.

    Since most stamina toons have have access to snare removal using either Forward Momentum and Shuffle they are covered. I think Shuffle need it snare immunity increased but not until it is reworked because a skill wit major evasion and 4 second snare immunity would be real strong.

    For magic based toons:
    1: Sorc remove the major exp or Lighting Form and add snare removal.
    2: Templar has Ritual and they just might have to recast to get the snare off based on what was cleansed.
    3: Dragon Knight has wings maybe just increase the time.
    4. Nightblade maybe remove the auto crit to from cloak and add the clease back onto it. This would be strong option. The other idea is to remove the heal of siphoning strikes and add snare immunity. there are a few more options.
    5. Wardens can have the snare reduction removed from there passive and have snare immunity add to Crystallized Slab. This make the Warden choose between Major Heroism and Snare immunity.

    By all mean I dont have the answer for everything but This is a very important topic for all players in PvP and PvE.
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