Illuvatarr wrote: »
This sounds balanced af. 👍OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »Proposed Change:
2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, remove 2 negative effects from them. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 150 Magicka. This effect can occur every 3 seconds. This effect may only occur from the first tick of a heal.
This way you have to actively proc it from a heal, so no casting mutagen and 8 seconds later it breaking you free from a CC.
Wolf_Watching wrote: »A different proc... yes. Cooldown absolutely not.
ZOS_Liforce wrote: »Curse Eater's purge potential is indeed harmful to certain dueling match-ups. This is a great catch by all of you who tried the set out in PTS and we're looking at ways to adjust the set so that Curse Eater won't dominate certain classes while still giving players more cleansing tools.
JackDaniell wrote: »What makes this set broken is the fact that you dont have to activley do anything other then refresh a hot.
Think about how useful it is to use allot of purge in pvp, now imagine you dont have to do anything and can now cast other skills while getting that effect.
I could literally ignore a sorcs burst. No defile off snipe and incap ganks for easy heal rebounds. The first tick of radiant is the last tick. No DOTs will do real damage to me and if they do all i have to do is cast a simple heal.
Again, this set is op because you dont have to do anything for a massive benefit. They need to atleast double the cooldown.
<---- Spams Swallow Soul.OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »With changes to this set i would alter it but not to extremes:
Current Bonus:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, remove two negative effects from them. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 150 Magicka. This effect can occur every 2 seconds.
Proposed Change:
2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, remove 2 negative effects from them. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 150 Magicka. This effect can occur every 3 seconds. This effect may only occur from the first tick of a heal.
This way you have to actively proc it from a heal, so no casting mutagen and 8 seconds later it breaking you free from a CC.
While that is true in theory, has anyone tested it? I have ZOS' buff tracker set up to only show my debuffs. When I get ganked by a stamblade, I immediately have 5 or 6 effects on me, because so many things count as a separate effect. I suspect the set will be more effective against Curse and Power of the Light, though.JackDaniell wrote: »What makes this set broken is the fact that you dont have to activley do anything other then refresh a hot.
Think about how useful it is to use allot of purge in pvp, now imagine you dont have to do anything and can now cast other skills while getting that effect.
I could literally ignore a sorcs burst. No defile off snipe and incap ganks for easy heal rebounds. The first tick of radiant is the last tick. No DOTs will do real damage to me and if they do all i have to do is cast a simple heal.
Again, this set is op because you dont have to do anything for a massive benefit. They need to atleast double the cooldown.
What that line of thought ignores is that you can only wear two sets and a monster set. Creating a build that works in most situations is tough. The more I play the game, the more I come back to basic stat sets, such as Amber Plasm. Having good stamina sustain, as a magicka character, is simply the most versatile defense you can have. If I wear this set instead, I will need a damage set with it and am foregoing other defenses, such as Amber Plasm (more dodge rolls), Riposte / Impreg / Transmutation (less damage), Skooma Smuggler (higher speed), and so on. Curse Eater had better be useful in many situations, otherwise it won't even make it onto the list of sets I'd consider. It really comes down to how it feels in terms of snare removal, for example. I agree this set may do (far) too much, but I think we have to listen to the people who are testing it. In terms of removing proc sets altogether, that is clearly a dead horse when you look at the sets ZOS continue to introduce. You might as well be tilting at windmills.A skillless & boring game is when the items play for the player rather than the player making any meaningful decisions.
This set is one more example for an item which is doing all the work for the player.
Proc sets in general and this item set should be either removed or changed completely to have a less meaningful impact on combat.
This set existence is a proof that the combat team is nowhere near balancing this game correctly, not by a long shot.
I don´t think people can wrap their head around how strong this is at the moment - they have to ask themselves a question: Is someone that can´t die and is spamming alliance war purge for you personally every 2s useful/op? Because that´s essentially what it comes down to.
Dunno about alliance war purge, but i can tell you about ritual of retribution: as far as cleansing goes, it is pretty much useless, even if spammed once every second and not two. There's a reason templars run extended ritual instead.
I don´t think people can wrap their head around how strong this is at the moment - they have to ask themselves a question: Is someone that can´t die and is spamming alliance war purge for you personally every 2s useful/op? Because that´s essentially what it comes down to.
Dunno about alliance war purge, but i can tell you about ritual of retribution: as far as cleansing goes, it is pretty much useless, even if spammed once every second and not two. There's a reason templars run extended ritual instead.
Extended Ritual is much better than Purge generally, no question. But both are expensive skills that cost a GCD which is kind of important under high pressure.
I've used Purge on my build for half a year or more after Morrowind. Was worth it, but the cost and time it takes to use it made it a difficult decision. Now compare that to Curse Eater. I'm going to have a HoT running in the slot I used for Purge then, I'm not going to spend any time on purging, it will happen more often anyway and I'll have some sustain to help mitigate the loss of one of my damage sets. Still got some sustain in my build I could throw out instead.
I like that comparison. I am not sure how accurate it is, but I like it. When you say the set is average, does that mean you've had some general Cyrodiil gameplay on the PTS?In general cyrodiil gameplay, the set is average. In specific dueling it is powerful - but then, so is meridia.
I like that comparison. I am not sure how accurate it is, but I like it. When you say the set is average, does that mean you've had some general Cyrodiil gameplay on the PTS?In general cyrodiil gameplay, the set is average. In specific dueling it is powerful - but then, so is meridia.
I don´t think people can wrap their head around how strong this is at the moment - they have to ask themselves a question: Is someone that can´t die and is spamming alliance war purge for you personally every 2s useful/op? Because that´s essentially what it comes down to.
Dunno about alliance war purge, but i can tell you about ritual of retribution: as far as cleansing goes, it is pretty much useless, even if spammed once every second and not two. There's a reason templars run extended ritual instead.
Extended Ritual is much better than Purge generally, no question. But both are expensive skills that cost a GCD which is kind of important under high pressure.
I've used Purge on my build for half a year or more after Morrowind. Was worth it, but the cost and time it takes to use it made it a difficult decision. Now compare that to Curse Eater. I'm going to have a HoT running in the slot I used for Purge then, I'm not going to spend any time on purging, it will happen more often anyway and I'll have some sustain to help mitigate the loss of one of my damage sets. Still got some sustain in my build I could throw out instead.
If you are under high pressure, then purging 2 effects every 2 seconds won't help you much. That was my point. I am using extended ritual, and even so i often have to use it twice in a row to really feel the effect. With purge/retribution, trying to keep up with the rate of debuff application seemed a lost cause.
Now, the set won't eat a GCD for the cleanse, yes. But it still won't cleanse effects any quicker than the above. If you ever get into a situation in which you would have to use extended ritual twice to survive - too bad, 1 debuff/sec is all you get.
In general cyrodiil gameplay, the set is average. In specific dueling it is powerful - but then, so is meridia.
Well, you can see how a 1vXer, like Jack Daniell, would have a problem with it. He will be LoSing people most of the time and has to make his burst count, when he gets the chance. I know he plays templar among other classes. I see the biggest problem with the set in countering the sorc curse and templar PotL, something it will have multiple chances to do, before the ability hits. It will also cancel things like Elemental Drain, presumably.I like that comparison. I am not sure how accurate it is, but I like it. When you say the set is average, does that mean you've had some general Cyrodiil gameplay on the PTS?In general cyrodiil gameplay, the set is average. In specific dueling it is powerful - but then, so is meridia.
No, i haven't - fair enough (of course it is kinda impossible to get typical Vivec experience on PTS.)
I do however have experience with blessed meridia: very effective 1v1 (if this procs you can Meditate, and all he can do is watch), however as soon as a second enemy attacks you, you have a 5-piece bonus that does nothing at all against him. Curse eater is similar in this regard. Capable of countering the debuffs of one attacker pretty well (unless its a low slash spam build, etc.), but quickly outpaced as soon as another joins in. Which, in cyrodiil, is pretty typical, i dare say.
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »I don't have a horse in this race, but come on folks lets be reasonable here. Lets not turn this into another Asylum Destro where it was turned into a useless POS
A reasonable change to Curse Eater would be:
Current Bonus:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, remove two negative effects from them. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 150 Magicka. This effect can occur every 2 seconds.
Proposed Change
2 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(3 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you heal yourself or an ally, remove one negative effects from them. You also reduce the duration of any further negative effects by 50% for 4 seconds. If a negative effect was removed this way, your target restores 100 Magicka. This effect can occur every 2 seconds.
My proposed change makes the set strong and useful while not making it useless or overpowered. The snare and dot meta in this game is complete cancer and is a big reason why I don't log as much anymore. Its not fun to play in molasses or having 8-10 effects on you with no purge(as a Mag DK your boned)
They also need to convert Wyrd Tree into a Light Armor set with Arcane Rings and reduce the cooldown on the set from 15 seconds to 8 seconds. These would be good changes to the game overall as the way things are in PVP its terrible for anyone not part of a ballgroup zerg.
I appreciate ZOS throwing us a bone with this curse eater set. In its current state it is too strong, but changing it the way i propose...would be perfect and I just might play more if they do. My proposed change gives it half the purging ability of Efficient Purge and only a little over 80% of its negative effect reducing bonus...its the PERFECT bonus for this set.
Well, you can see how a 1vXer, like Jack Daniell, would have a problem with it. He will be LoSing people most of the time and has to make his burst count, when he gets the chance.I like that comparison. I am not sure how accurate it is, but I like it. When you say the set is average, does that mean you've had some general Cyrodiil gameplay on the PTS?In general cyrodiil gameplay, the set is average. In specific dueling it is powerful - but then, so is meridia.
No, i haven't - fair enough (of course it is kinda impossible to get typical Vivec experience on PTS.)
I do however have experience with blessed meridia: very effective 1v1 (if this procs you can Meditate, and all he can do is watch), however as soon as a second enemy attacks you, you have a 5-piece bonus that does nothing at all against him. Curse eater is similar in this regard. Capable of countering the debuffs of one attacker pretty well (unless its a low slash spam build, etc.), but quickly outpaced as soon as another joins in. Which, in cyrodiil, is pretty typical, i dare say.
Well, I believe a Knightslayer / Torug's Pact stamsorc werewolf won a big duelling tournament recently. Other than that, yeah.Well, you can see how a 1vXer, like Jack Daniell, would have a problem with it. He will be LoSing people most of the time and has to make his burst count, when he gets the chance.I like that comparison. I am not sure how accurate it is, but I like it. When you say the set is average, does that mean you've had some general Cyrodiil gameplay on the PTS?In general cyrodiil gameplay, the set is average. In specific dueling it is powerful - but then, so is meridia.
No, i haven't - fair enough (of course it is kinda impossible to get typical Vivec experience on PTS.)
I do however have experience with blessed meridia: very effective 1v1 (if this procs you can Meditate, and all he can do is watch), however as soon as a second enemy attacks you, you have a 5-piece bonus that does nothing at all against him. Curse eater is similar in this regard. Capable of countering the debuffs of one attacker pretty well (unless its a low slash spam build, etc.), but quickly outpaced as soon as another joins in. Which, in cyrodiil, is pretty typical, i dare say.
Right, however if one of his opponents wore meridia, he would be potentially even worse off, because instead of not being able to burst one of the X, his dawnbreaker would miss *everyone*.
So why isnt there an outcry against meridia? Mainly because virtually no-one uses it in the chaos that is cyrodiil. It only helps 1v1, and 1v1 without an add is rare. Curse eater suffers from the same limitation. I do not believe ZOS chose the 2 effects/2 sec randomly. They looked at how often effects are applied on average, and went from there, to make a set that would counter a desired percentage of these incoming debuffs. Of course if you do that, then the set will be both overperforming and underperforming, depending on how often the debuffs really are applied, and that naturally varies from fight to fight.
My concern is that they will now rebalence the set for a low-incoming-debuff scenario, making it completely useless in a high-debuff scenario (and that means "typical cyrodiil keep fight"), and the set will end up a roadkill right next to Knightslayer and Soldier of Anguish. Those, too, sparked huge nerf cries, and look where they ended up - i havent been hit by knightslayer in ages, and by anguish *at all*. I don't want to see curse eater in that company.
Honestly I'm not sure about that. For all I know 2 effects could be just right. The following suggestion has greater complexity and potentially adds ever so slightly more server processing time / lag:brandonv516 wrote: »There have been some good suggestions in this thread - really fair ones.