Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Ball groups crying over rapids... priceless...
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Ball groups crying over rapids... priceless...
InvitationNotFound wrote: »Alliance War
Assault
Vigor: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs were unintentionally proccing abilities with a ranged attack prerequisite.
Rapid Maneuvers: This ability and its morphs will no longer provide immunity to snares or immobilizes.
Retreating Maneuvers: This morph will no longer remove current snares or immobilizes, and will instead grant affected allies a bonus that reduces their damage taken from behind by 15%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
After the changes to Major Expedition in Update 20, we wanted to make sure all abilities that provided the buff were given the same pass, yet Rapid Maneuvers was left untouched. We wanted to spend more time fleshing out a new identity for this ability, while still retaining the unique group play it enabled. Since the removal of snares and immobilizes is such a powerful tool, we removed that function from this skill since it was allowing large groups to ignore incorporating those types of abilities in their individual builds. We repurposed Retreating Maneuvers for something that was strictly defensive, as the name implied, so you’ll now take less damage when being attacked from the backside as you reposition or retreat.
How detached from your game are you?
Who cares about their damage taken from behind? How should that work anyway with that miserable performance in Cyrodiil? And who wants to even use that crap?
How should that new morph "retain" the unique group play it enabled? Who the hell was using that skill outside of an organized group anyway? It is too expensive outside such a group anyway. And obviously, it won't provide that "unique group play".
By changing this skill you simply push more to numbers instead of group play. If there are way more opponents than you, you'll lose the fight anyway because they are more. Nothing else will matter... Just stack with your faction and run down the factions with less players...
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »
Nice bombs, but we all know that farming nubs on the bridge or back flag doesn't require much in the way of movement. Keep taking/defense, open field fights, and other situations requiring a lot of movement over a large area are where snare and immobilize purging becomes very important. When you're just repositioning a few feet around a corner it's not a big deal, but when you have multiple raids coming at you out in the field from different directions, you need to be able to dot the i if you're going to make it. And even in the video, it's easy to see that some extra movement might have helped you stop the ressers better and actually win the full fight. You had a great thing going and were keeping the bodies all nice and lined up, but it looked like you just couldn't make it back and forth fast enough to properly kill all the zombies.
Every time a player gets wrecked by a zerg bal after this change and cries for even more nerfs, I will remember this post.
Again I get the removing the group CC immunity (needs to be individual) but honestly this will not stop zergs and it will not stop players from getting stomped and crying for nerfs again.
that's fine. better players should win fights, given they're skilled and organized enough. better players should not have an absurd advantage like rapids gave them though, nor should they need that advantage to win fights.
>absurd advantage
wtf, do players outside ball groups have no access to rapids?
Every time a player gets wrecked by a zerg bal after this change and cries for even more nerfs, I will remember this post.
Again I get the removing the group CC immunity (needs to be individual) but honestly this will not stop zergs and it will not stop players from getting stomped and crying for nerfs again.
that's fine. better players should win fights, given they're skilled and organized enough. better players should not have an absurd advantage like rapids gave them though, nor should they need that advantage to win fights.
>absurd advantage
wtf, do players outside ball groups have no access to rapids?
This is the answer a ball group zerger would give and the reason we assume most of you only spam one or two skills? Ever try playing solo or small scale? Tell me exactly where there’s room on your bar for rapids? You need every single skill to survive and you need to use all of them always, rapids, while obviously good, doesn’t fit into the “necessary” category.
I would appreciate to have more ball groups @Mayrael
fighting another good ball group is much more interesting than farming randoms,.
but there are just a few good ones left which are interesting to duel
Also I feel like most people have different definitions of "ballgroups", my definition of a ballgroups is a 8-14 man groups seeking fights while being outnumbered by the opposing faction far away from hotspots where there are no pugs and everyone has a dedicated role / build, communication via voice chat etc.
And not those 16-24 man in group of which 8 are 30k hp healbots + 30 pugs swarming around them "ballgroups" which are running from one emp keep to another and killing singular players by spamming light attack and execute on them.
It's not like this is the end of ball groups. Some will hardly seem affected.
What I like is that ball group players will need to be less sloppy. When they make mistakes that separate them from their groups, it will be more difficult for them to recover.
IMO, this had to happen after the recent overall nerf to mobility.
It's not like this is the end of ball groups. Some will hardly seem affected.
What I like is that ball group players will need to be less sloppy. When they make mistakes that separate them from their groups, it will be more difficult for them to recover.
IMO, this had to happen after the recent overall nerf to mobility.
Im assuming more purge will take care of the roots. Probably will still need rapids for the speed thats breaking every time a buff or ability goes off.
Sandman929 wrote: »It's not like this is the end of ball groups. Some will hardly seem affected.
What I like is that ball group players will need to be less sloppy. When they make mistakes that separate them from their groups, it will be more difficult for them to recover.
IMO, this had to happen after the recent overall nerf to mobility.
Im assuming more purge will take care of the roots. Probably will still need rapids for the speed thats breaking every time a buff or ability goes off.
More purging for sure. NBs have a nice AoE expedition with path of darkness, but since it doesn't have snare/root removal it wasn't as useful...until now.
I would appreciate to have more ball groups @Mayrael
fighting another good ball group is much more interesting than farming randoms,.
but there are just a few good ones left which are interesting to duel
It's not like this is the end of ball groups. Some will hardly seem affected.
What I like is that ball group players will need to be less sloppy. When they make mistakes that separate them from their groups, it will be more difficult for them to recover.
IMO, this had to happen after the recent overall nerf to mobility.
Im assuming more purge will take care of the roots. Probably will still need rapids for the speed thats breaking every time a buff or ability goes off.
Sandman929 wrote: »This change is likely going to happen. The people that hate group play will celebrate right up until they still die to an organized group despite the fact that they dropped their OP Dawnbreaker on them, and the people that like group play can keep complaining about it, but it's probably going to happen exactly how it's worded right now.
It'd be nice to see some options that people are considering, especially from other group players who can appreciate the fact that everyone in their raid running Forward Momentum is a pretty stupid idea.
ltownsend1808 wrote: »@Rygonix The best counter to an organised group, is another organised group. Have you ever tried assembling a few friends, co-ordinating ultimates (especially negates), placing siege on crucial areas like flags of keeps? You do these things and I guarantee you that you'll impact that fight. If you can negate a purger and a healer, while the group is under high pressure from sieges, and drop some offensive ultimates you'll most likely kill someone or force some defensive ultimates to be used by said ball group. You have many skills also available to help with this such as; Time stop, inevitable detonation (can be cast from range and if purged still does damage- few of these on a tightly packed group really hits hard!), aoe stuns (streak, volcanic rune, manifestation of terror) to name a few. Not to mention all the damage from your other abilities. You do not need to kill us all at once but rather killing one or two is the beginning of the end for most raid groups due to everyone having critical roles that the group relies on.
Furthermore, I feel that PVP raiding often gets unfairly criticised with comments such as "they just spam one button" or "they run broken sets". In my experience this couldn't be further from the truth. Similar to PVE raiding, we have to optimise our group with sets that buff our groups damage and survivability. Sets like Ebon, Worm, Hircine, Sanctuary, Olorime, Transmutation and Meritorious Service (which from the patch notes sounds like it has been fixed now to proc correctly off of purge, both morphs). Other sets such as Thurvokun are used to debuff the enemy making it harder for them to heal and to do less damage. Deciding on jewellery traits also is a factor, with harmony being very popular due to its ability to provide amazing burst damage when combined with certain synergies.
To add to this we implement skills like choking talons (to increase our uptime on minor maim), Solar Prison (for major maim and a powerful synergy), Shifting Standard (for major defile). We then look at other skills to buff the group, Dragonknights provide minor brutality, Templars provide minor sorcery, Sorcerers provide minor prophecy and Nightblades provide minor savagery.
Not only are we on Discord communicating but we also take advantage of some amazing addons, such as Sancts Ultimate Organiser, which tells us crucial details like synergy and purge cooldowns, ultimates available and Retreating Maneuver uptime.
All of this is just a generic overview and doesn't touch on the intricacies of each individual build for each individual role.
So we are doing all of these things to be as optimised as we can. What are the pug groups doing? Are you running into keeps and doing the same things over and over? Are you optimising your build to kill us (check out some solo vicious death bombers for ideas) or merely coming into Cyrodiil every day with the same build and hoping it has more of an impact than yesterday? If I get killed 1v1 while playing solo by a Nightblade, do I say that NBs are OP and need a nerf or self examine and adjust my play style and build?
I think all of the organised raid groups want to encourage more people to get into raiding as it is fun, exciting and fast paced. I personally would love nothing more than to see some more high level guilds compete against us. If people are interested in forming their own guild to combat other "ball groups" then I suggest checking out Dracarys' Youtube channel as there is many informative videos there to help people get started!
IxSTALKERxI wrote: »IxSTALKERxI wrote: »
Nice bombs, but we all know that farming nubs on the bridge or back flag doesn't require much in the way of movement. Keep taking/defense, open field fights, and other situations requiring a lot of movement over a large area are where snare and immobilize purging becomes very important. When you're just repositioning a few feet around a corner it's not a big deal, but when you have multiple raids coming at you out in the field from different directions, you need to be able to dot the i if you're going to make it. And even in the video, it's easy to see that some extra movement might have helped you stop the ressers better and actually win the full fight. You had a great thing going and were keeping the bodies all nice and lined up, but it looked like you just couldn't make it back and forth fast enough to properly kill all the zombies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zbd_dVaJ65I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qCJ7pUVEMw
No rapids spam.
Like, I haven't had the luxury of having rapids in years, and I have still been successful in open field and keeps...
My point was mainly aimed at people in the thread rejoicing that organized groups are dead from this change lol.