Patch Notes Rapid Feedback

Numil

del9 wrote: »

DJfriede wrote: »

I want to fight and not be concerned with how I can make my character move again.

There are several other snare removal and immunity skills you can slot. Most classes have major expedition as well.

You can also try immovability potions, speed potions, or armor sets.

ROFL ball group tears

well if you really think imovability potion can give anti root i would say u got some LTP issue. I just think you here to destroy a game play without good arguments and why come here to give an oppinion on those change if u already may be not sure how game working...

fastolfv_ESO

skill beats out numbers a few too many times and you get this. They really want the guilds to leave so cyro can be shut down

Xsorus

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

I enjoy smallscale, solo and raiding btw. you just gonna accept that it is all completly different playstyles (btw you can see that aswell in pve solo [vma] and dsa/Trials)solo you dont have a tank/healer xD, but if you wanna Play in grp you Need one for that kinda of Content.

you couldn't heal at same time as rapids in the first place...Why are you arguing this?

Diundriel

i agree that the immunity that you get against roots/snares for 30+idk seconds is strong, but you can argue aswell for that About purge, springs (all Group Play skills)…
if you really want to nerf it nerf the immunity on Duration, Keep the root/snare remove on cast and let it give Speed for just 1-3seconds (or remove the Speed, but Keep the root remove).

Skwor

Royaji wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

Well, I think that is kinda the point. You are either able to move fast with the rest of the group thus making them take less damage or they move slower with your pace but you are outhealing incoming damage. Noone denies that this is a nerf. But not an unfair or unneeded one.

Actually a lot of us are stating it is not needed and it is not balanced (fair if you will) At least give it a solo immunity component and I would have no issue.

Rake

mfw players that are overjoyed with this change think they will survive groups that used this skill from now on

Royaji

Skwor wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

Well, I think that is kinda the point. You are either able to move fast with the rest of the group thus making them take less damage or they move slower with your pace but you are outhealing incoming damage. Noone denies that this is a nerf. But not an unfair or unneeded one.

Actually a lot of us are stating it is not needed and it is not balanced (fair if you will) At least give it a solo immunity component and I would have no issue.

Rapids only having immunity for the caster is a great change I would welcome. But I can deal without it if it means that one guy with crazy stam regen and nothing else can prevent 23 other players from being snared/rooted. Ever.

Skwor

Royaji wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

Well, I think that is kinda the point. You are either able to move fast with the rest of the group thus making them take less damage or they move slower with your pace but you are outhealing incoming damage. Noone denies that this is a nerf. But not an unfair or unneeded one.

Actually a lot of us are stating it is not needed and it is not balanced (fair if you will) At least give it a solo immunity component and I would have no issue.

Rapids only having immunity for the caster is a great change I would welcome. But I can deal without it if it means that one guy with crazy stam regen and nothing else can prevent 23 other players from being snared/rooted. Ever.

I am in complete agreement with your statement as far as the perma sta thing. They really need to keep a single immunity component.

Red_Feather

I think the idea of the new functionality of Retreating is very interesting!

But I think in Cyrodiil, if your group is running away it's because of something that a 15% damage reduction is not going to help.

Perhaps it can be that being hit from behind cannot do more than X% max health per hit.

Xsorus

Royaji wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

Well, I think that is kinda the point. You are either able to move fast with the rest of the group thus making them take less damage or they move slower with your pace but you are outhealing incoming damage. Noone denies that this is a nerf. But not an unfair or unneeded one.

Actually a lot of us are stating it is not needed and it is not balanced (fair if you will) At least give it a solo immunity component and I would have no issue.

Rapids only having immunity for the caster is a great change I would welcome. But I can deal without it if it means that one guy with crazy stam regen and nothing else can prevent 23 other players from being snared/rooted. Ever.

See I would be fine with this, in fact they could even lower the cost of a morph and make it single target.

Could even make it similar to a Mist form but for Stamina users..That'd be ok..

Anyone arguing that its needed for an entire group though is out of their depth.

Leeched

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

You can animation cancel Mistform

ecru

Rake wrote: »

mfw players that are overjoyed with this change think they will survive groups that used this skill from now on

every time a player from a ball group gets cc'd, wrecked, and left behind as their group is trying to disengage i will think of this post

usmcjdking

There was nothing reasonable in this skill whatsoever.

Is trying to get 10-15 people off you very difficult, stam intensive and likely to end in your death because of roots & snares? Yes it is. Welcome to the rest of ESO PVP you've been ignoring.

MartiniDaniels

Royaji wrote: »

I will miss old rapids since they did make running past mobs (who thought adding a snare to every single mob in the game is a good idea?!) in sleep-inducing overland stuff a bit more bearable. But this is a good and needed PvP change.

This mobs snares is one of most irritating things in eso. Not only fight with them is so easy and pointless, but every time some jerk will manage to snare you before death. So you can't just throw aoe at them and move further, you need to do some combo to kill them all in 2 seconds otherwise you'll be snared.

Sandman929

In group, I'm going to do the smart thing and fight running backwards. Still I think all the highly skilled stamblades trying to snipe and incap their way to victory are surely about to start dominating with this change, it was the last piece of the small scale puzzle for them.

Rygonix

Ball groups will just have to slow down a little bit and keep track of their individual members better. Good groups will adapt, the terrible ones, like the ones I imagine in this thread, will give up.

Wihuri

Rygonix wrote: »

Ball groups will just have to slow down a little bit and keep track of their individual members better. Good groups will adapt, the terrible ones, like the ones I imagine in this thread, will give up.

Enjoy turtle meta

Rygonix

Wihuri wrote: »

Enjoy turtle meta

The funny thing is, is that these ball groups were essentially turtles on nitro, so the only change is they will just be slower and easier to counter now.

evoniee

make the second morph only remove snare and immobilization, no immunity included, no major expedition, max 12 player
thats the best we can get for organized zerg

ToRelax

Zergballing isn't the same as organized large scale PvP. Just a consequence of unfortunate combat design.

ltownsend1808

@Rygonix The best counter to an organised group, is another organised group. Have you ever tried assembling a few friends, co-ordinating ultimates (especially negates), placing siege on crucial areas like flags of keeps? You do these things and I guarantee you that you'll impact that fight. If you can negate a purger and a healer, while the group is under high pressure from sieges, and drop some offensive ultimates you'll most likely kill someone or force some defensive ultimates to be used by said ball group. You have many skills also available to help with this such as; Time stop, inevitable detonation (can be cast from range and if purged still does damage- few of these on a tightly packed group really hits hard!), aoe stuns (streak, volcanic rune, manifestation of terror) to name a few. Not to mention all the damage from your other abilities. You do not need to kill us all at once but rather killing one or two is the beginning of the end for most raid groups due to everyone having critical roles that the group relies on.

Furthermore, I feel that PVP raiding often gets unfairly criticised with comments such as "they just spam one button" or "they run broken sets". In my experience this couldn't be further from the truth. Similar to PVE raiding, we have to optimise our group with sets that buff our groups damage and survivability. Sets like Ebon, Worm, Hircine, Sanctuary, Olorime, Transmutation and Meritorious Service (which from the patch notes sounds like it has been fixed now to proc correctly off of purge, both morphs). Other sets such as Thurvokun are used to debuff the enemy making it harder for them to heal and to do less damage. Deciding on jewellery traits also is a factor, with harmony being very popular due to its ability to provide amazing burst damage when combined with certain synergies.
To add to this we implement skills like choking talons (to increase our uptime on minor maim), Solar Prison (for major maim and a powerful synergy), Shifting Standard (for major defile). We then look at other skills to buff the group, Dragonknights provide minor brutality, Templars provide minor sorcery, Sorcerers provide minor prophecy and Nightblades provide minor savagery.
Not only are we on Discord communicating but we also take advantage of some amazing addons, such as Sancts Ultimate Organiser, which tells us crucial details like synergy and purge cooldowns, ultimates available and Retreating Maneuver uptime.
All of this is just a generic overview and doesn't touch on the intricacies of each individual build for each individual role.

So we are doing all of these things to be as optimised as we can. What are the pug groups doing? Are you running into keeps and doing the same things over and over? Are you optimising your build to kill us (check out some solo vicious death bombers for ideas) or merely coming into Cyrodiil every day with the same build and hoping it has more of an impact than yesterday? If I get killed 1v1 while playing solo by a Nightblade, do I say that NBs are OP and need a nerf or self examine and adjust my play style and build?

I think all of the organised raid groups want to encourage more people to get into raiding as it is fun, exciting and fast paced. I personally would love nothing more than to see some more high level guilds compete against us. If people are interested in forming their own guild to combat other "ball groups" then I suggest checking out Dracarys' Youtube channel as there is many informative videos there to help people get started!

Rygonix

@ltownsend1808
See, this is the kind of conversation we need to see here. Thank you for your input.

Recremen

This is a buff if you have no friends to play with, but a nerf if you've developed social skills and a good competitive community.

ErMurazor

ZoS catering to the casual pug zergsurfer. Their best crownstore customer And forget its the endgame players that drive this game forward. Another sign ZoS is just milking as much money they can asap and dont care about the future health of the game.

IxSTALKERxI

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Also as for the prognosis on group pvp, I think its a little early to be gnashing teeth or celebrating the death of any playstyles ^^

Lol our groups never even used rapids (didn't have the luxury as haven't been dedicated to the game for years) still kill everyone just fine. haha.

del9

Diundriel wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

DJfriede wrote: »

1. immovable potions doesnt Prevent you from being snared or rooted
2. it isnt viable for a raid playstyle to all Slot one skill if you can have one role for it, example:
-imagine everyone would have to debuff Bosses in PvE for themselves, healers and tanks would become kinda useless
-imagine taunt wouldnt be in the game
3. armor sets wont Prevent you from getting rooted and even the new one wont be viable as it is just 2 effects per 2 sec and you have like 15 effects on you all the time; kinda rng that it removes the root effect isnt it?

btw. i am sure that everyone in my Guild would be up to duel someone of you, just cause you call Raids generally zergs. A Duell Shows whether they can Play solo or not feel free to message me ingame @D'iundriel .

Numil wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

DJfriede wrote: »

I want to fight and not be concerned with how I can make my character move again.

well if you really think imovability potion can give anti root i would say u got some LTP issue. I just think you here to destroy a game play without good arguments and why come here to give an oppinion on those change if u already may be not sure how game working...

You know rapids was OP when these players can’t grasp the concept of using more than 1 button or mechanic to stay mobile.

They are so scared and confused they are lashing out with duel challenges from entire guilds.

IxSTALKERxI

No rapids being used here lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8xD2cBrYUQ

Rake

ecru wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

mfw players that are overjoyed with this change think they will survive groups that used this skill from now on

every time a player from a ball group gets cc'd, wrecked, and left behind as their group is trying to disengage i will think of this post

Every time a player gets wrecked by a zerg bal after this change and cries for even more nerfs, I will remember this post.

Again I get the removing the group CC immunity (needs to be individual) but honestly this will not stop zergs and it will not stop players from getting stomped and crying for nerfs again.

that's fine. better players should win fights, given they're skilled and organized enough. better players should not have an absurd advantage like rapids gave them though, nor should they need that advantage to win fights.

>absurd advantage

wtf, do players outside ball groups have no access to rapids?

Recremen

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

No rapids being used here lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8xD2cBrYUQ

Nice bombs, but we all know that farming nubs on the bridge or back flag doesn't require much in the way of movement. Keep taking/defense, open field fights, and other situations requiring a lot of movement over a large area are where snare and immobilize purging becomes very important. When you're just repositioning a few feet around a corner it's not a big deal, but when you have multiple raids coming at you out in the field from different directions, you need to be able to dot the i if you're going to make it. And even in the video, it's easy to see that some extra movement might have helped you stop the ressers better and actually win the full fight. You had a great thing going and were keeping the bodies all nice and lined up, but it looked like you just couldn't make it back and forth fast enough to properly kill all the zombies.

Mayrael

ltownsend1808 wrote: »

@Rygonix The best counter to an organised group, is another organised group. Have you ever tried assembling a few friends, co-ordinating ultimates (especially negates), placing siege on crucial areas like flags of keeps? You do these things and I guarantee you that you'll impact that fight. If you can negate a purger and a healer, while the group is under high pressure from sieges, and drop some offensive ultimates you'll most likely kill someone or force some defensive ultimates to be used by said ball group. You have many skills also available to help with this such as; Time stop, inevitable detonation (can be cast from range and if purged still does damage- few of these on a tightly packed group really hits hard!), aoe stuns (streak, volcanic rune, manifestation of terror) to name a few. Not to mention all the damage from your other abilities. You do not need to kill us all at once but rather killing one or two is the beginning of the end for most raid groups due to everyone having critical roles that the group relies on.

Furthermore, I feel that PVP raiding often gets unfairly criticised with comments such as "they just spam one button" or "they run broken sets". In my experience this couldn't be further from the truth. Similar to PVE raiding, we have to optimise our group with sets that buff our groups damage and survivability. Sets like Ebon, Worm, Hircine, Sanctuary, Olorime, Transmutation and Meritorious Service (which from the patch notes sounds like it has been fixed now to proc correctly off of purge, both morphs). Other sets such as Thurvokun are used to debuff the enemy making it harder for them to heal and to do less damage. Deciding on jewellery traits also is a factor, with harmony being very popular due to its ability to provide amazing burst damage when combined with certain synergies.
To add to this we implement skills like choking talons (to increase our uptime on minor maim), Solar Prison (for major maim and a powerful synergy), Shifting Standard (for major defile). We then look at other skills to buff the group, Dragonknights provide minor brutality, Templars provide minor sorcery, Sorcerers provide minor prophecy and Nightblades provide minor savagery.
Not only are we on Discord communicating but we also take advantage of some amazing addons, such as Sancts Ultimate Organiser, which tells us crucial details like synergy and purge cooldowns, ultimates available and Retreating Maneuver uptime.
All of this is just a generic overview and doesn't touch on the intricacies of each individual build for each individual role.

So we are doing all of these things to be as optimised as we can. What are the pug groups doing? Are you running into keeps and doing the same things over and over? Are you optimising your build to kill us (check out some solo vicious death bombers for ideas) or merely coming into Cyrodiil every day with the same build and hoping it has more of an impact than yesterday? If I get killed 1v1 while playing solo by a Nightblade, do I say that NBs are OP and need a nerf or self examine and adjust my play style and build?

I think all of the organised raid groups want to encourage more people to get into raiding as it is fun, exciting and fast paced. I personally would love nothing more than to see some more high level guilds compete against us. If people are interested in forming their own guild to combat other "ball groups" then I suggest checking out Dracarys' Youtube channel as there is many informative videos there to help people get started!

Problem with today's "ballgroups" is that they don't want to fight other ballgroups, they want to run half an hour around a postern to kill new players, they don't seek challenge, they just want ez kills.