Patch Notes Rapid Feedback

Xsorus

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Sooo let me get this right, you nerfed a skill that promoted group play in an MMORPG.. LMAO seriously?

Please tell me what is the purpose of an MMORPG that actively discourages the MM part?

They nerfed a skill that gave one specific type of group play an advantage over everyone else; that also already has multiple advantages over everyone else.

How is it an advantage over everyone else when everyone had acces to it>

I also noticed you are not even trying to address the completely broken CC immunity, perma CC spam that is so prevalent in the game, THAT is a much more serious issue!

How many solo builds you see running rapids on their bar? I mean ***.. there is a literal add on to auto equip it and cast it and take of off when mounting.

Everyone else in the game runs something else to remove roots, either vampire, wings, forward for example...

Also why would I talk about broken cc immunity; roots and snares have worked the same way since the start of the game... you might not of noticed it because you had some dude spamming rapids.

Skwor

Numil wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Sooo let me get this right, you nerfed a skill that promoted group play in an MMORPG.. LMAO seriously?

Please tell me what is the purpose of an MMORPG that actively discourages the MM part?

They nerfed a skill that gave one specific type of group play an advantage over everyone else; that also already has multiple advantages over everyone else.

That not give advantage, we got some member in the group dedicaced for it cause we already need to deal with root /sner spam by a tons players. Remove it gona justt make cyrodill more lagy more unplayable in prime time and absolutly not fun to play. Imagine some keep in fight for 4H or 5H cause big zergs inside no chance to got tic defense or tic attack cause too many long time spend there.

That just stupid change or otherwise give a way to group to got a way to play without manover. But make sure it work cause otherwise that just gona make the pvp more zergy with no goals.

Yep, now we will go back to 4 hour keep sieges because no one can get inside

mongoLC

That's a stupid change most will not like that and move on. Cyro is for large scale group pvp not small man or solo you have bg for that.
Had a feeling this guy was going to be even worse why I didn't resub

Diundriel

here new Gameplay Incoming (no rapids): https://youtu.be/8mlxd6qUoUQ?t=110
-->called zerging
i want to fight that zergs with my Guild, cause only Thing that is fun left in this game. And i am not gonna go for that zerg no rapid playstyle...

Skwor

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Sooo let me get this right, you nerfed a skill that promoted group play in an MMORPG.. LMAO seriously?

Please tell me what is the purpose of an MMORPG that actively discourages the MM part?

They nerfed a skill that gave one specific type of group play an advantage over everyone else; that also already has multiple advantages over everyone else.

How is it an advantage over everyone else when everyone had acces to it>

I also noticed you are not even trying to address the completely broken CC immunity, perma CC spam that is so prevalent in the game, THAT is a much more serious issue!

How many solo builds you see running rapids on their bar? I mean ***.. there is a literal add on to auto equip it and cast it and take of off when mounting.

Everyone else in the game runs something else to remove roots, either vampire, wings, forward for example...

Also why would I talk about broken cc immunity; roots and snares have worked the same way since the start of the game... you might not of noticed it because you had some dude spamming rapids.

That does not counter the point I made that everyone has access to it, so again it was not an exclusionary advantage.

Also again why are you not even addressing the whole CC immunity thing, oh perhaps because you are one of the many spamming CC using the hell out of CC to gain a unique advantage because of it?

Diundriel

but i have no Problems with People enjoying zerging as we raid guilds otherwise wouldnt exist (could still do GuildvsGuilds, but even that Needs rapids)…
But i guess lot of People on this thread enjoy zerg playstyle and probably never raided with a serious raid Guild xD

Leeched

Time for Ballgroups to try some Smallscale PvP. One and a half week of event with all 3 factions poplocked and no ballgroups in Sotha were WAY less laggy then today when at least 1 AD ballgroup was in Sotha. It actually made my group rq cause it was impossible to cast skills etc.

Diundriel

remove all aoe roots and aoe snares and i am gonna fully support that Change, but aslong we got roots and snares i am fully against it.

ecru

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Sooo let me get this right, you nerfed a skill that promoted group play in an MMORPG.. LMAO seriously?

Please tell me what is the purpose of an MMORPG that actively discourages the MM part?

They nerfed a skill that gave one specific type of group play an advantage over everyone else; that also already has multiple advantages over everyone else.

How is it an advantage over everyone else when everyone had acces to it>

I also noticed you are not even trying to address the completely broken CC immunity, perma CC spam that is so prevalent in the game, THAT is a much more serious issue!

It's an advantage over everyone else because it allowed one person in your group to allow the rest of your group to ignore CC. Negating an entire aspect of the combat system for 24 players at once by having one person easily and repeatedly spamming one ability is ridiculously OP. The only way to compete with CC immunity is to have CC immunity yourself, but larger groups only give up 1 out of 240 bar slots for that immunity, while for solo players or small groups it may be 1 in 40 or 1 out of 10 bar slots. I don't see what part of this is difficult to understand.

You're just going to have to learn how to play the game like everyone else does now.

Skwor

Gawd imagine now how slow things will get and how boring when on a horse with rapids everyone can be CC rooted so easily. This is such a bad idea for so many reasons.

One person can wreck a whole PVP raid right out of a keep, how is this not the same thing only in the opposite with a single playing now getting to much power to disrupt a group?

Teeba_Shei

Can we at least make it so the ability still gives snare and root immunity to the caster? Its a super expensive ability and really isn't worth the cost because of how easy it is to remove.

ltownsend1808

I think as many have stated above, this wont be the end of high end PVP raiding. Every patch there is a change that affects us (directly or indirectly) and we have always overcome this, showing that it is not sets or skills that we "crutch" on but rather coordinated communication and teamwork.

I just want to highlight a few key points about this skill.
1) The stamina cost. The base cost of this skill is 8100 (which can be taken down through passives and armor, however means choosing sets like Battlefield Acrobat or Marksman which is a trade off in itself). On non-champion point campaigns the stamina pool is maybe around the 30k mark so this skill can be cast maybe 5 or 6 times (accounting for stam recovery and potions).
2) The movement speed bonus is broken by most skills/abilities.
3) The snare immunity is broken my most skills/abilities. For example, if you attack me and I remove the snare by retreating maneuver (costing me 8k stamina ), and then I heal/attack someone then I can be snared again.
4) If you've read the patch notes then this skill will no longer go to 24 people but rather 12 (which already counters extremely large groups utilizing this skill).

I guess my biggest question is this; if the change goes through who will use this skill except to slot in between fights while riding? It is too costly for solo/small scale players to use, so they will choose shuffle, dk wings, forward momentum. Raid groups will most likely follow suit and focus more on purging snares and running forward momentum (more stam wardens incoming for all of you guys who love dying to steel tornado and sleets). Who is left to run this skill? I'm not asking for the change to be reverted (although I would like to see this haha), however I suggest having an entire rework of the skill to make it more functional for all types of players.

Diundriel

@Rillis it was not 1 ball Group it was Lux Dei, Slack Squad, Cyrodils Fist, Draco Imperia, Drachengarde (saw some not sure if they had a raid), DDK, Pride Inc, Gurillia Warfire online today so basically all Guilds that Play pvp
I would suggest making raid size smaller, cap max grp size to 12 Players, so People cant communicate that easy and therefore cant stack that easy on one spot

Skwor

ecru wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Sooo let me get this right, you nerfed a skill that promoted group play in an MMORPG.. LMAO seriously?

Please tell me what is the purpose of an MMORPG that actively discourages the MM part?

They nerfed a skill that gave one specific type of group play an advantage over everyone else; that also already has multiple advantages over everyone else.

How is it an advantage over everyone else when everyone had acces to it>

I also noticed you are not even trying to address the completely broken CC immunity, perma CC spam that is so prevalent in the game, THAT is a much more serious issue!

It's an advantage over everyone else because it allowed one person in your group to allow the rest of your group to ignore CC. Negating an entire aspect of the combat system for 24 players at once by having one person easily and repeatedly spamming one ability is ridiculously OP. The only way to compete with CC immunity is to have CC immunity yourself, but larger groups only give up 1 out of 240 bar slots for that immunity, while for solo players or small groups it may be 1 in 40 or 1 out of 10 bar slots. I don't see what part of this is difficult to understand.

You're just going to have to learn how to play the game like everyone else does now.

Except now the skill does not even give the caster immunity and given it is for escaping it seems really dumb to give it 15% reduction when running away but letting your attackers snare you anyway.. gee I die 15% slower but sill die because I can't escape because I am snared.. You do not see the stupidity in this?.

Maybe you need to learn to play the game like everyone already had. You want a solo/duel game go to BG or just duel or even find another game instead of trying to destroy the large group PVP portion of this game.

Xsorus

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Sooo let me get this right, you nerfed a skill that promoted group play in an MMORPG.. LMAO seriously?

Please tell me what is the purpose of an MMORPG that actively discourages the MM part?

They nerfed a skill that gave one specific type of group play an advantage over everyone else; that also already has multiple advantages over everyone else.

How is it an advantage over everyone else when everyone had acces to it>

I also noticed you are not even trying to address the completely broken CC immunity, perma CC spam that is so prevalent in the game, THAT is a much more serious issue!

How many solo builds you see running rapids on their bar? I mean ***.. there is a literal add on to auto equip it and cast it and take of off when mounting.

Everyone else in the game runs something else to remove roots, either vampire, wings, forward for example...

Also why would I talk about broken cc immunity; roots and snares have worked the same way since the start of the game... you might not of noticed it because you had some dude spamming rapids.

That does not counter the point I made that everyone has access to it, so again it was not an exclusionary advantage.

Also again why are you not even addressing the whole CC immunity thing, oh perhaps because you are one of the many spamming CC using the hell out of CC to gain a unique advantage because of it?

Everyone else couldn’t afford a high cost stamina ability that’s only powerful if you have a dude spamming it in a group

I also don’t have to address cc immunity that works the same on everyone in the game and doesn’t change based on how many players I have around me.

Also are you claiming ballgroups don’t use cc? None of you have a warden running in with their ult? Hmmm or multiple dawn breakers?

Numil

Diundriel wrote: »

here new Gameplay Incoming (no rapids): https://youtu.be/8mlxd6qUoUQ?t=110
-->called zerging
i want to fight that zergs with my Guild, cause only Thing that is fun left in this game. And i am not gonna go for that zerg no rapid playstyle...

Oh my god, that how gona be cyro next patch.... Pugs spaming ligth attack bow / barrier for no reasons. Why destroys balls groups ? to just give more easy way to zergs to take keep? But that just never give them more easy way to ttake keep cause they will die in boucle under sieges inside and they will come back more and more like zombies. That will just give this game horrible to play and u can be sure those zergs when they will bored to die will change game for an others.

MasterSpatula

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a complete cesspool of CC spam. Being able to counter the miserable experience of being out of control of your character is outside the vision of what PVP in ESO is supposed to be, I guess.

one person being able to counter cc repeatedly for 24 people by hitting a single button is what zos considers "outside the vision of what pvp in eso is supposed to be, i guess".

Not remotely relevant. The prevalence of CC in Cyrodiil is a huge barrier to entry for casuals and new-to-PVP. The sheer number of ways to lose control of your character and utter lack of an automatic brief immunity to CC after coming out of CC was a willfully bad decision on the part of the designers, and any move in the direction away from being able to counter this is choosing bad over good.

If CC had to be used judiciously, it would be a great tool. But the precise opposite is true. CC can be used incessantly, making the player run the range from sluggish and weak to completely ineffective. This makes it more of a lazy crutch than good gameplay, and it badly needs to be toned down, not beefed up.

The excuse that this change prevents large groups from taking advantage of one player's action is a nothing but a smokescreen: A needed CC counter is being taken away from individuals as well, the obvious result is making noobs even more farmable by experienced players than they already are, making the experience miserable for people new to PVP, which in turn should make PVP itself less enjoyable to anyone who doesn't enjoy the misery of others (something quite different from those who enjoy healthy competition).

TLDR: CC is out of control in Cyrodiil. CC spam is a crutch. We need more CC counters, not less.

del9

DJfriede wrote: »

I want to fight and not be concerned with how I can make my character move again.

There are several other snare removal and immunity skills you can slot. Most classes have major expedition as well.

You can also try immovability potions, speed potions, or armor sets.

ROFL ball group tears

Skwor

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Skwor wrote: »

Sooo let me get this right, you nerfed a skill that promoted group play in an MMORPG.. LMAO seriously?

Please tell me what is the purpose of an MMORPG that actively discourages the MM part?

They nerfed a skill that gave one specific type of group play an advantage over everyone else; that also already has multiple advantages over everyone else.

How is it an advantage over everyone else when everyone had acces to it>

I also noticed you are not even trying to address the completely broken CC immunity, perma CC spam that is so prevalent in the game, THAT is a much more serious issue!

How many solo builds you see running rapids on their bar? I mean ***.. there is a literal add on to auto equip it and cast it and take of off when mounting.

Everyone else in the game runs something else to remove roots, either vampire, wings, forward for example...

Also why would I talk about broken cc immunity; roots and snares have worked the same way since the start of the game... you might not of noticed it because you had some dude spamming rapids.

That does not counter the point I made that everyone has access to it, so again it was not an exclusionary advantage.

Also again why are you not even addressing the whole CC immunity thing, oh perhaps because you are one of the many spamming CC using the hell out of CC to gain a unique advantage because of it?

Everyone else couldn’t afford a high cost stamina ability that’s only powerful if you have a dude spamming it in a group

I also don’t have to address cc immunity that works the same on everyone in the game and doesn’t change based on how many players I have around me.

Also are you claiming ballgroups don’t use cc? None of you have a warden running in with their ult? Hmmm or multiple dawn breakers?

It's simple, until the totally broken CC imunity spam issue is fixed this change is wrong. We do not need CC becoming even more game burdensome than it is.

Groups spamming CC for the perma lock effect are just as egregious as the zerg balls using rapids to prevent CC

CC immunity and perma CC needs to be complexly fixed before anymore changes allowing CC to be even more powerful are implemented.

Truth is then I am fine with this change

Diundriel

"I also don’t have to address cc immunity that works the same on everyone in the game and doesn’t change based on how many players I have around me."- having 50 People on you and 5+ of them spamming psijic bubble and chain on you is already annoying enough

Xsorus

MasterSpatula wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a complete cesspool of CC spam. Being able to counter the miserable experience of being out of control of your character is outside the vision of what PVP in ESO is supposed to be, I guess.

one person being able to counter cc repeatedly for 24 people by hitting a single button is what zos considers "outside the vision of what pvp in eso is supposed to be, i guess".

Not remotely relevant. The prevalence of CC in Cyrodiil is a huge barrier to entry for casuals and new-to-PVP. The sheer number of ways to lose control of your character and utter lack of an automatic brief immunity to CC after coming out of CC was a willfully bad decision on the part of the designers, and any move in the direction away from being able to counter this is choosing bad over good.

If CC had to be used judiciously, it would be a great tool. But the precise opposite is true. CC can be used incessantly, making the player run the range from sluggish and weak to completely ineffective. This makes it more of a lazy crutch than good gameplay, and it badly needs to be toned down, not beefed up.

The excuse that this change prevents large groups from taking advantage of one player's action is a nothing but a smokescreen: A needed CC counter is being taken away from individuals as well, the obvious result is making noobs even more farmable by experienced players than they already are, making the experience miserable for people new to PVP, which in turn should make PVP itself less enjoyable to anyone who doesn't enjoy the misery of others (something quite different from those who enjoy healthy competition).

TLDR: CC is out of control in Cyrodiil. CC spam is a crutch. We need more CC counters, not less.

The only people using this as a cc counter is ball groups... no one else is using this for that purpose... going on a rant about cc makes you look silly and no one is going to fall for this argument because it’s bloody stupid.

Your post can be summed up as “wah I don’t want to deal with the same cc every other player does, give my group who already has a massive advantage another advantage because I can’t be bothered to slot one of the other multiple abilities that do the exact same thing but isn’t free because some derplord can’t spam it for me”

TLDR: adapt.

Diundriel

btw if you wanna make all part of the game for solo Play, why dont you also remove taunt cause it buffs pve raid Groups to much??? it is just to OP
that is how essential a Speed Spammer is for PvP Raid Groups

Skwor

Diundriel wrote: »

"I also don’t have to address cc immunity that works the same on everyone in the game and doesn’t change based on how many players I have around me."- having 50 People on you and 5+ of them spamming psijic bubble and chain on you is already annoying enough

Exactly that crap needs a 10 second immunity that works, it is wrecking gameplay

Skwor

Xsorus wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a complete cesspool of CC spam. Being able to counter the miserable experience of being out of control of your character is outside the vision of what PVP in ESO is supposed to be, I guess.

one person being able to counter cc repeatedly for 24 people by hitting a single button is what zos considers "outside the vision of what pvp in eso is supposed to be, i guess".

Not remotely relevant. The prevalence of CC in Cyrodiil is a huge barrier to entry for casuals and new-to-PVP. The sheer number of ways to lose control of your character and utter lack of an automatic brief immunity to CC after coming out of CC was a willfully bad decision on the part of the designers, and any move in the direction away from being able to counter this is choosing bad over good.

If CC had to be used judiciously, it would be a great tool. But the precise opposite is true. CC can be used incessantly, making the player run the range from sluggish and weak to completely ineffective. This makes it more of a lazy crutch than good gameplay, and it badly needs to be toned down, not beefed up.

The excuse that this change prevents large groups from taking advantage of one player's action is a nothing but a smokescreen: A needed CC counter is being taken away from individuals as well, the obvious result is making noobs even more farmable by experienced players than they already are, making the experience miserable for people new to PVP, which in turn should make PVP itself less enjoyable to anyone who doesn't enjoy the misery of others (something quite different from those who enjoy healthy competition).

TLDR: CC is out of control in Cyrodiil. CC spam is a crutch. We need more CC counters, not less.

The only people using this as a cc counter is ball groups... no one else is using this for that purpose... going on a rant about cc makes you look silly and no one is going to fall for this argument because it’s bloody stupid.

Your post can be summed up as “wah I don’t want to deal with the same cc every other player does, give my group who already has a massive advantage another advantage because I can’t be bothered to slot one of the other multiple abilities that do the exact same thing but isn’t free because some derplord can’t spam it for me”

TLDR: adapt.

Not everyone uses it only for grouping PVP

Diundriel

del9 wrote: »

DJfriede wrote: »

I want to fight and not be concerned with how I can make my character move again.

There are several other snare removal and immunity skills you can slot. Most classes have major expedition as well.

You can also try immovability potions, speed potions, or armor sets.

ROFL ball group tears

1. immovable potions doesnt Prevent you from being snared or rooted
2. it isnt viable for a raid playstyle to all Slot one skill if you can have one role for it, example:
-imagine everyone would have to debuff Bosses in PvE for themselves, healers and tanks would become kinda useless
-imagine taunt wouldnt be in the game
3. armor sets wont Prevent you from getting rooted and even the new one wont be viable as it is just 2 effects per 2 sec and you have like 15 effects on you all the time; kinda rng that it removes the root effect isnt it?

btw. i am sure that everyone in my Guild would be up to duel someone of you, just cause you call Raids generally zergs. A Duell Shows whether they can Play solo or not feel free to message me ingame @D'iundriel .

Xsorus

Skwor wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Cyrodiil is a complete cesspool of CC spam. Being able to counter the miserable experience of being out of control of your character is outside the vision of what PVP in ESO is supposed to be, I guess.

one person being able to counter cc repeatedly for 24 people by hitting a single button is what zos considers "outside the vision of what pvp in eso is supposed to be, i guess".

Not remotely relevant. The prevalence of CC in Cyrodiil is a huge barrier to entry for casuals and new-to-PVP. The sheer number of ways to lose control of your character and utter lack of an automatic brief immunity to CC after coming out of CC was a willfully bad decision on the part of the designers, and any move in the direction away from being able to counter this is choosing bad over good.

If CC had to be used judiciously, it would be a great tool. But the precise opposite is true. CC can be used incessantly, making the player run the range from sluggish and weak to completely ineffective. This makes it more of a lazy crutch than good gameplay, and it badly needs to be toned down, not beefed up.

The excuse that this change prevents large groups from taking advantage of one player's action is a nothing but a smokescreen: A needed CC counter is being taken away from individuals as well, the obvious result is making noobs even more farmable by experienced players than they already are, making the experience miserable for people new to PVP, which in turn should make PVP itself less enjoyable to anyone who doesn't enjoy the misery of others (something quite different from those who enjoy healthy competition).

TLDR: CC is out of control in Cyrodiil. CC spam is a crutch. We need more CC counters, not less.

The only people using this as a cc counter is ball groups... no one else is using this for that purpose... going on a rant about cc makes you look silly and no one is going to fall for this argument because it’s bloody stupid.

Your post can be summed up as “wah I don’t want to deal with the same cc every other player does, give my group who already has a massive advantage another advantage because I can’t be bothered to slot one of the other multiple abilities that do the exact same thing but isn’t free because some derplord can’t spam it for me”

TLDR: adapt.

Not everyone uses it only for grouping PVP

No one uses it for CC immunity outside of grouping

You can try and argue this, but everyone is going to know you're lying.

Diundriel

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

I enjoy smallscale, solo and raiding btw. you just gonna accept that it is all completly different playstyles (btw you can see that aswell in pve solo [vma] and dsa/Trials)solo you dont have a tank/healer xD, but if you wanna Play in grp you Need one for that kinda of Content.

voldran

Some of you emphasise the large scale AVA fight and still the game breaks when these groups collide. What about when you cant stop a 12+ size ball group and players attack them until they leave or they get bored does not make the fight last longer? You do not think about the players hate unstoppable ball groups. I can also see that 20+ ep groups are still ok not using rapid. You wanna push half of the pvp population to BGs? Who is gonna stay to fight with you. *Facepalm

Royaji

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

Well, I think that is kinda the point. You are either able to move fast with the rest of the group thus making them take less damage or they move slower with your pace but you are outhealing incoming damage. Noone denies that this is a nerf. But not an unfair or unneeded one.

Skwor

Diundriel wrote: »

how do you avoid snares/roots on a templar or magden or nb if you Play healer role in raid- you cant mistform as you wouldnt heal your grp in that time ...^^?

I enjoy smallscale, solo and raiding btw. you just gonna accept that it is all completly different playstyles (btw you can see that aswell in pve solo [vma] and dsa/Trials)

LOL you just made my same point in a different way.. Nice exactly right!