Checkmath wrote: »

I would like the necro this thread, since the next meeting will be in the beginning of december.

You know how the game works: Provide your 2 biggest pain points with the class, best with a small explanation.

I am happy to read again, what you are coming up with.

Vajrak wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Hello.

I think we've got a huge problem now with the new Evasion. Jabs builds are dead because they might've been used in PvP now that you can turn, the damage increased a bit and so on, but people will run Evasion and that will counter us so hard. And in PvE other builds shine best since melee gameplay is being punished.

On the Magplar, I would really like to see Jabs back. It made my templar feel unique. Right now it feels like a "sorcerer" with blazing spear and purifying light instead of the sorcerer dots...

That's my main concern regarding templar right now. Must agree that on the tanking & stamplar department things look much better than they used to though!

The burning light procs are your friend. Also consider that Jabs is also giving you Minor Protection along with the heal from it, so it still holds a nice unique spot --- yes, lower damage if they are running evasion....but also receiving less damage while self-healing for using it. Is a decently fair trade.

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Sun Fire: tool tip says that it grant major prophecy upon activation, but it misleading. Unlike Biting Jabs that grant Major Savagery upon activation of skill, Sun Fire grant its buff only when dot activated for duration of dot. It allow to track damage portion by customize addon to track buff, but in pvp it makes it bit worse.
When target missed or dodged or reflected your Sun Fire, i.e. dot not proc - you not gain benefit of activating skill:

It should be fixed so even when "dodge", "miss" or reflected status proced for dot part - its buff still triggering.

2. Spear Wall passive: its duration should be equalized with minor mending passive with its 4sec duration. Reason of why Sacred Ground was nerfed to be minor mending is coz its high uptime even 100%, so minor buff should have high uptime.Same as mending you can get high uptime of protection by spamming jabs of even use Shards on other bar to not loose passive but Spear Wall was changed to be independent of aedric skill being slotted allowing to swapping bars without loosing passive but as sec when you use to proc passive by main spammable - Jabs, it leave 1.5sec of its actual usage, thats not enough to swap bar and cast abilities then swap back, having 2.5sec would be more reliable.
So I suggest to change duration of it from 1.5/3 into at least 2/4sec.

3. Solar Barrage: before murkmire its damage was exactly equal to damage of Shards and lower utility, but after Shards got ~60% damage it again became supbar ability that have much less damage than Shards with lower utility than Shards. It just not fair.
So I suggest to rebalance Barrage to reduce amount of tick from 4 to 3 and buff its damage for 40%(return to old damage).
So, if take damage pre-change as default than current Barrage would look like 60%+60%+60%+60%=240% while with 3ticks it would be 100%+100%+100%+0%=300%; 300-240=60% more bursty damage in exchange of higher mana spending and requirement to be activated more often.

4. Eclipse:tested it a lot in group and solo and it really underwhelming now. so now it grant CC immunity for duration of skill to prevent bypassing cc cooldown and cc immunity after skill is purged and expired. That require rebalancing of skill again. Irony is that npc eclipse was getting this treatment and no longer grant cc immunity when purged or expired, even tho it already strong as being old reflect version of eclipse. With this new mechanic enemy have potential 13sec of immunity (6eclipse+7 cc immunity cooldown), while also loosing its key utility of original revamp - in exchange of ignoring break free for saving stamina pool of bubble enemy supposed to hurt himself, but now in ex change of saving his stamina on break free and being hurted enemy also have cc immunity that ignore cc immunity cooldown timer. It means he cant be affected by hard CCs or disabling which made eclipse to work in group utility, for twice that duration of original cc timer. If simply - Eclipse now decreased risk taken and now grant more benefit to enemy.
To fix this I see couple ways:
1. should be done what was done with npc eclipse - no longer grant cc immunity on expire or cleanse. Eclipse is not hard CC, it not disabling enemy, preventing him from attacking, moving, healing. It allow enemy to fully control his character in bubble, so if bubble grant cc immunity, while not punish enemy like other hards ccs - enemy should not have granted cc immunity cooldown passively by doing nothing, he should have chose to either break free to gain immunity and no damage taken, or keep bubble cc immunity on him in exchange of receive damage.
With such change to bubble as it still wont being hard cc so it wont be able to lead to such situation like this:

^^ when hard cc disable you and not grant cc immunity after making so your character stuck in hard CCs..
Also in exchange of 100% loss of group utility and given that it can serve only as anti-offense skill that have no effect when target moving/retreating/recasting buffs (that is what experienced people do while having bubble on them - using other combat features like recasting buffs or reapply dots that wont hurt coz of eclipse mechanic during bubble duration and after it's expire continue to bursting caster) its mechanics of having 0.750sec cooldown or possibility to proc only on 1st tick of dot could reviewed to grant enemy more incenitive to break free bubble and less option to bypass its damage proc, pushing skill more into unique 1vX CC skill.
2. if cc immunity on expire remain - than bubble should become unbreakable again. Enemy will have 13sec of cc immunity but at least half of it he will be under debuff that will punish him for attacking.

5. Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

6. Radiant Aura: have low usability due to minor manasteal nerf while retain its cost and later become totaly useless due to changes of staffs. Given that debuff form Aura cant be stacked to gain more return and still have problem when invisible enemies getting immunity to debuff apply due to band-aid fix to prevent it revealing enemies or can purge it resulting in cost-utility to be too bad to use Aura. Using Drain that provide manasteal and strong major debuff for zero cost and can be spammed as much as you want is far more benefical, it old drawback that it was forcing to use staffs, but this drawback was completely removed when staffs count as 2pieces and its attacks scales of max mana, making staffs bis weapons for magica users. Drain+staff with its "only benefits" in pve and pvp completely remove needs of Aura with it way-to-easy ways to be countered and problem of minor passive buffs attached to skillbar, preventing effective usage from backbar.
So, given that templar lack of major sorcery skill how about change skill to provide major sorcery upon activation of skill while apply buff on yourself that proc minor manasteal debuff on enemy that hit caster,for 5sec. Given how Leeching Vines proved that this mechanic working flawlessly - adopt it for Aura would fix all its problems of force to be ranged ability and do lot of aoe server calculations or that invisibility allow to evade debuff. Also even when debuff wont work skill price will be repaid by its providing of major sorcery.

7. Extended Ritual: it work as templar semi-mitigation skill and providing possibility for mobility but it have problem of cleansing being either too much and it mobility capability being not enough.
In pvp battlefield is full or snares and rotos that can reapply itself, making purging them simply a waste.
Here is one example of such mechanic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^ you simply cant have your cleanse to actually get rid of debuffs coz it will be wasted on cleasning self-reapplayable 3-4 snare/root debuff, forcing templar to loose most of cleanse utility and loose its mobility. Even DK with its new scales can have higher mobility and mitigation than non-vampire templar spamming extended ritual.
However when field not filled with those things getting 5 cleanses can provide too much mitigation by cleansing 5 dots esp for vampire templar who can bypass mobility problem by Mist while retain 5 cleanses, and thus if templar ever get proper damage preemptive ability(lack of which is main problem of templar class) - its tankability will become too much.
So, I suggest to trade 1-2 cleanses for 1-2sec of roots/snare immunity. However with such change granting immunity should be calculating prior to debuff cleanse to not being wasted in vain. With such change when you have like 13 different debuffs on you and 3-4 of them is self-reapplayale snares - cast of ritual will allow to timely get rid of them while debuffs cleanse will cleanse actual debuffs but in less amount. Simply less tankability for higher mobility exchange.

Vapirko wrote: »

Can javalin travel a bit faster? It’s so easily dodged.

Sustain could still use a bit of work.

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Sun Fire: tool tip says that it grant major prophecy upon activation, but it misleading. Unlike Biting Jabs that grant Major Savagery upon activation of skill, Sun Fire grant its buff only when dot activated for duration of dot. It allow to track damage portion by customize addon to track buff, but in pvp it makes it bit worse.
When target missed or dodged or reflected your Sun Fire, i.e. dot not proc - you not gain benefit of activating skill:

It should be fixed so even when "dodge", "miss" or reflected status proced for dot part - its buff still triggering.

2. Spear Wall passive: its duration should be equalized with minor mending passive with its 4sec duration. Reason of why Sacred Ground was nerfed to be minor mending is coz its high uptime even 100%, so minor buff should have high uptime.Same as mending you can get high uptime of protection by spamming jabs of even use Shards on other bar to not loose passive but Spear Wall was changed to be independent of aedric skill being slotted allowing to swapping bars without loosing passive but as sec when you use to proc passive by main spammable - Jabs, it leave 1.5sec of its actual usage, thats not enough to swap bar and cast abilities then swap back, having 2.5sec would be more reliable.
So I suggest to change duration of it from 1.5/3 into at least 2/4sec.

3. Solar Barrage: before murkmire its damage was exactly equal to damage of Shards and lower utility, but after Shards got ~60% damage it again became supbar ability that have much less damage than Shards with lower utility than Shards. It just not fair.
So I suggest to rebalance Barrage to reduce amount of tick from 4 to 3 and buff its damage for 40%(return to old damage).
So, if take damage pre-change as default than current Barrage would look like 60%+60%+60%+60%=240% while with 3ticks it would be 100%+100%+100%+0%=300%; 300-240=60% more bursty damage in exchange of higher mana spending and requirement to be activated more often.

4. Eclipse:tested it a lot in group and solo and it really underwhelming now. so now it grant CC immunity for duration of skill to prevent bypassing cc cooldown and cc immunity after skill is purged and expired. That require rebalancing of skill again. Irony is that npc eclipse was getting this treatment and no longer grant cc immunity when purged or expired, even tho it already strong as being old reflect version of eclipse. With this new mechanic enemy have potential 13sec of immunity (6eclipse+7 cc immunity cooldown), while also loosing its key utility of original revamp - in exchange of ignoring break free for saving stamina pool of bubble enemy supposed to hurt himself, but now in ex change of saving his stamina on break free and being hurted enemy also have cc immunity that ignore cc immunity cooldown timer. It means he cant be affected by hard CCs or disabling which made eclipse to work in group utility, for twice that duration of original cc timer. If simply - Eclipse now decreased risk taken and now grant more benefit to enemy.
To fix this I see couple ways:
1. should be done what was done with npc eclipse - no longer grant cc immunity on expire or cleanse. Eclipse is not hard CC, it not disabling enemy, preventing him from attacking, moving, healing. It allow enemy to fully control his character in bubble, so if bubble grant cc immunity, while not punish enemy like other hards ccs - enemy should not have granted cc immunity cooldown passively by doing nothing, he should have chose to either break free to gain immunity and no damage taken, or keep bubble cc immunity on him in exchange of receive damage.
With such change to bubble as it still wont being hard cc so it wont be able to lead to such situation like this:

^^ when hard cc disable you and not grant cc immunity after making so your character stuck in hard CCs..
Also in exchange of 100% loss of group utility and given that it can serve only as anti-offense skill that have no effect when target moving/retreating/recasting buffs (that is what experienced people do while having bubble on them - using other combat features like recasting buffs or reapply dots that wont hurt coz of eclipse mechanic during bubble duration and after it's expire continue to bursting caster) its mechanics of having 0.750sec cooldown or possibility to proc only on 1st tick of dot could reviewed to grant enemy more incenitive to break free bubble and less option to bypass its damage proc, pushing skill more into unique 1vX CC skill.
2. if cc immunity on expire remain - than bubble should become unbreakable again. Enemy will have 13sec of cc immunity but at least half of it he will be under debuff that will punish him for attacking.

5. Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

6. Radiant Aura: have low usability due to minor manasteal nerf while retain its cost and later become totaly useless due to changes of staffs. Given that debuff form Aura cant be stacked to gain more return and still have problem when invisible enemies getting immunity to debuff apply due to band-aid fix to prevent it revealing enemies or can purge it resulting in cost-utility to be too bad to use Aura. Using Drain that provide manasteal and strong major debuff for zero cost and can be spammed as much as you want is far more benefical, it old drawback that it was forcing to use staffs, but this drawback was completely removed when staffs count as 2pieces and its attacks scales of max mana, making staffs bis weapons for magica users. Drain+staff with its "only benefits" in pve and pvp completely remove needs of Aura with it way-to-easy ways to be countered and problem of minor passive buffs attached to skillbar, preventing effective usage from backbar.
So, given that templar lack of major sorcery skill how about change skill to provide major sorcery upon activation of skill while apply buff on yourself that proc minor manasteal debuff on enemy that hit caster,for 5sec. Given how Leeching Vines proved that this mechanic working flawlessly - adopt it for Aura would fix all its problems of force to be ranged ability and do lot of aoe server calculations or that invisibility allow to evade debuff. Also even when debuff wont work skill price will be repaid by its providing of major sorcery.

7. Extended Ritual: it work as templar semi-mitigation skill and providing possibility for mobility but it have problem of cleansing being either too much and it mobility capability being not enough.
In pvp battlefield is full or snares and rotos that can reapply itself, making purging them simply a waste.
Here is one example of such mechanic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^ you simply cant have your cleanse to actually get rid of debuffs coz it will be wasted on cleasning self-reapplayable 3-4 snare/root debuff, forcing templar to loose most of cleanse utility and loose its mobility. Even DK with its new scales can have higher mobility and mitigation than non-vampire templar spamming extended ritual.
However when field not filled with those things getting 5 cleanses can provide too much mitigation by cleansing 5 dots esp for vampire templar who can bypass mobility problem by Mist while retain 5 cleanses, and thus if templar ever get proper damage preemptive ability(lack of which is main problem of templar class) - its tankability will become too much.
So, I suggest to trade 1-2 cleanses for 1-2sec of roots/snare immunity. However with such change granting immunity should be calculating prior to debuff cleanse to not being wasted in vain. With such change when you have like 13 different debuffs on you and 3-4 of them is self-reapplayale snares - cast of ritual will allow to timely get rid of them while debuffs cleanse will cleanse actual debuffs but in less amount. Simply less tankability for higher mobility exchange.

And that is why I don't use reflective light anymore.

Great work! I agree with everything here. They havea chance to really fix eclipse here.