[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Elsterchen

Rune Focus:
“Stamplars” are happy to get a source of resource management here. This change alone has made some excited to play the next patch. Some things to consider though:
A number of Templars (I can’t say what %, it’s a fair number) have suggested to keep the cost of the skill magicka. Magicka “dumps” are generally preferred by stamina-oriented characters.
While the stamina sustain in nice, it’s coming at a pretty hefty price: the complete loss of minor vitality and easy 100% uptime on major protection (more on that below).

I already filled the divorce from bone pirate...

Waseem

give major mending back, do something regarding blocking and using breath of life or any other skill or class at the same time

Warganic

Elsterchen wrote: »

Rune Focus:
“Stamplars” are happy to get a source of resource management here. This change alone has made some excited to play the next patch. Some things to consider though:
A number of Templars (I can’t say what %, it’s a fair number) have suggested to keep the cost of the skill magicka. Magicka “dumps” are generally preferred by stamina-oriented characters.
While the stamina sustain in nice, it’s coming at a pretty hefty price: the complete loss of minor vitality and easy 100% uptime on major protection (more on that below).

I already filled the divorce from bone pirate...

Is it that good of a change that is just makes bone pirate unnecessary? Because that's great news if so.

jhall03

I have golded out bone pirate, but I really am tired of using it. Unfortunately it’s pretty much my only medium Armor option for BGs. I hope this update changes this, or I will continue to play my stamblade more and more.

Girl_Number8

Baphomet wrote: »

The solution to templars is pretty straight forward. Like with the DKs, just give them back the stuff that worked!

1. They used to have a passive which restored both magicka and stamina everytime they used an ability (sustain fix)
2. Make sun shield a proper shield mechanism again (defense fix)
3. Make radiant an execute again (how many times has this been nerfed now?) (DPS fix)
4. Have dark flare expose and reveal stealthing opponents again - this was useful and unique.
5. Bring back blinding lights again - in a revised version (evasion fix)
6. Make puncturing sweep stun on the final hit again (CC fix)
7. Fix the templar's sluggish charge mechanism (DPS fix)

This is good but we need something for major expedition and pleaseeeee fix jabs~

It would be nice if you also returned channel focus to how it was as well~

LordSlif

increase speed with puncturing is a good option instead snare

carlos424

Does anyone here use annulment? Lol. Not any more. Blazing shield looking better and better. And I’m not talking about cast time, I’m talking about scaling off health. Might have to see what all this shield stacking nonsense is about. Lol

Minno

LordSlif wrote: »

increase speed with puncturing is a good option instead snare

especially if they overnerf swift.

LordSlif

ZoS is improving:
Puncturing, crescent sweep dmg, minor protection to aedric skills...
ZoS, if u really wanna see melee MagTemplars in game u must look to toppling charge and that minimum range. This limiter does not synergize with your goals and the melee playstyle of templars. we dnt wanna throw our enemy away (javelin) to stuns him if we need stay close to do damage... or even pull back to stay in that minimum range (3.5m)... did u get it? it needs be fast... synergistic
Btw the snare from Sacred Ground (30%) plus (a possible) major expediton from puncturing (when u active this skill) is so
much better than the 70% speed reduction.
come to my house...

Checkmath

Sry guys I could not attend the last meeting, but Joy sent in some very good notes we came up with together. Hope the recent pts patch is not bad in your eyes, otherwise please state your issues in here or the pts thread.

Solariken

Checkmath wrote: »

Sry guys I could not attend the last meeting, but Joy sent in some very good notes we came up with together. Hope the recent pts patch is not bad in your eyes, otherwise please state your issues in here or the pts thread.

I'm glad they are addressing speed, but sad that they decided to monkey with Major Expedition on active skills. Swift, FM, and speed pots were all that needed attention. Why did they screw around with the skills!?

Joy_Division

Solariken wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Sry guys I could not attend the last meeting, but Joy sent in some very good notes we came up with together. Hope the recent pts patch is not bad in your eyes, otherwise please state your issues in here or the pts thread.

I'm glad they are addressing speed, but sad that they decided to monkey with Major Expedition on active skills. Swift, FM, and speed pots were all that needed attention. Why did they screw around with the skills!?

Because when ZOS has a goal, they do not discriminate.

Checkmath

Solariken wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Sry guys I could not attend the last meeting, but Joy sent in some very good notes we came up with together. Hope the recent pts patch is not bad in your eyes, otherwise please state your issues in here or the pts thread.

I'm glad they are addressing speed, but sad that they decided to monkey with Major Expedition on active skills. Swift, FM, and speed pots were all that needed attention. Why did they screw around with the skills!?

Its either nothing gets changed or everything

Vajrak

Aedric Spear
Balanced Warrior: 3/6% Damage Dealth, 2/4% Reduced Damage Received
----the numbers may seem low, but will make sense when taken in conjunction with other changes suggested.

Burning Light: Aedric Spear skill proc exclusive, Static Damage with 0.5s CD, 25% chance to proc a secondary DoT for the Static Damage value over 3s; renewed proc just refreshes the duration.

Spear Wall: 8% Mitigation (blocking or not), while blocking, reflects damage at a max value of 20% of Max HP
----a reduced mitigation value than other classes, because it is also returning damage with a conditional

Piercing Spear: 10% Critical Damage, 400 Magic Damage bonus to Aedric Spear skills(does not apply further bonus to Burning Light)
----makes your Aedric Spear skills actually worth using

Radial Sweep/Morphs: Increase PBAoE range by 2m, double the rider proc to 0.5s ticks

Puncturing Strike/Morphs: Primarily fix the hitbox; have both morphs heal the Templar based on Damage done
---it's not unknown to have a Stamina related heal, so there is no real reason not to let Templar actually use their primary damage in either mainstat iteration.

Piercing Javelin/Morphs: Aurora Javelin --- KnockDOWN (not back), remove variable distance damage, apply a short debuff increasing damage target receives by 10% from next attack
Binding Javelin ---KnockDOWN (not back) + 3s hard snare, apply a short debuff chance to miss next attack (15% miss chance for 5s or so)

Focused Charge: Explosive Charge is actually fine as is, maybe could use a slight cost reduction.
Toppling Charge, becomes a Stam Morph, AoE like Explosive, does a Knockdown/Interrupt---literally just make it a stam variant morph of Explosive, without the stun

Spear Shards: As is really; while it would be nice to have a Stam morph of it, there isn't really a place to do so without adding another morph, though it could be possible to keep it as a magicka cost, but add the damage done based on highest stat.

Sun Shield: Radiant Ward is actually functioning well, simply change it to function off of mainstat +hp (so if HP is your main stat, no change, if it isn't, magplar gets a boost to utilize)
Blazing Shield change to a Stam variant, rename to Radiant Vengeance, value based off of Max Stam, physical damage AoE on cast

Dawn's Wrath
Restoring Spirit: Rename to Resilient Spirit, cost reduction all 6/12%, reduce damage received 1/2% as HP drops below 50% (max bonus value at 10% hp)

Illuminate: Minor sorcery to all is fine, could give Major Sorcery to the Templar also, but that can also be addressed elsewhere.

Prism: sits in line for where it should be, once Dawn's skills become more desirable

Enduring Rays: remove the limited list, 2s Duration increase applies to all Dawn's Wrath skills, done.

Eclipse: Total Dark, instead of making this target the enemy, have it apply to the caster. It then returns damage/heals to the Templar based on being attacked by direct damage. Still serves its intended purpose, but removes the problem of it being CC-breakable.

Unstable Core: make into on-target, Stamina morph, explosion after duration ends, applies minor stamina steal to the target. No CC aspect to worry about.

Solar Flare: Dark Flare, have ramp up damage 5% (to a maximum of 25%) for chain casts of the skill, ~10% cost reduction of current form.

Solar Barrage....there are a lot of changes being down with this, keep it with Empower is fine, make the damage scale off of main stat, remove the cast time, reduced damage, but have each subsequent proc increase damage if hitting the same target(s), again up to 25% maximum. Makes it viable for both AoE trash burning, and single target killing due to the Empower effect.

Sun Fire/Morphs: Remove the damn fire effect, just make it magic damage (rename the skill as needed). Vampire's Bane fine as is, Reflective Light increase the range of the other targets, and instead of having it 3 projectiles, have it primary target and then 2 additional targets within that range from point of impact on the primary (say perhaps 7m).

Nova/Morphs: 15% base damage increase, Solar Disturbance also restores resources (mag and stam) to allies in the area, Gravity crush applies a supplemental DoT on the target besides the ground AoE damage effect.

Restoring Light

Master Ritualist: add cc-immunity and/or damage reduction while resurrecting. It's a niche, but an important one when it happens.

Light Weaver: receiving healing from a restoring light ability grants 2 ultimate and 1% of highest stat pool recovered. ONLY applies when actually receiving a heal, not just a tick while at full.

Sacred Ground: the slow effect is fine, add in a small value restoring shield also through the duration of a skill, so that all templar Restoring Light skills that effect a heal/debuff also grant allies a small bit of mitigation, 1-1.2 shield. Not a HUGE amount, but enough to take the edge off of some attacks.

Cleansing Ritual/Morphs: Slight increase to area, Retribution increase the tick damage about 17%, Extended have it remove 1 harmful effect from allies in the area on cast (6s CD) with synergy remaining as is.

Repentance: Make into an AoE Debuff, restores health and stamina on hit on target, so it is for active play --- flat values, so it'd be akin to Major Lifesteal, Major Stamsteal.

Healing Ritual: Reduce the cost if you are going to make it instant-cast. This skill used to be able to put up big numbers when used properly, as it is currently it is a very limited use burst heal. If the cost is going to remain as high as it currently is, return the secondary heal for 1/2 value to effected targets after a 3s delay. Even with that, it still needs a slight cost reduction to be useful.

Practiced Incantation: Allies in the effect explode for 20% of damage received during the 8s Duration of this heal ultimate (like a reverse Purifying Light basically).

Remembrance: Allies receiving damage store the damage and receive it as a shield after the effect ends (again 20% cap).

I know this is a long read, and I left some skills unmentioned, because they are actively working on them, but it would add a bit of sustain, a bit of resilience, an increase in damage to Templar for actually using Templar skills. Obviously these are just base suggestions, not fully comprehensive, or tested --- values and effects would need to be examined and adjusted.

UppGRAYxDD

#BringBackBlindingLight
#MakeBlazingSpearGreatAgain
#SaveOurHouse

Solariken

I'm really curious how other Templars would feel about removing the CC component entirely from Eclipse (which would definitely mean reducing the proc dmg/heal significantly)?

The skill is expensive and it just has such little impact in most scenarios, other than the occasional corkblocking someone's burst window (which a javelin would do better). People cast it on me and I just thank them politely for the free CC immunity and then go ham on offense.

I've lobbied for reducing the proc effects by ~ 50% to compensate for removal of the "CC". Then you KNOW what you are getting when you cast it - a minor DOT combined with a minor heal or a timed burst (the unstable boom needs a buff though).

Would this he something we'd want the reps to push for?

Soris

I really wish radial sweep gets the incap treatment.

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

I'm really curious how other Templars would feel about removing the CC component entirely from Eclipse (which would definitely mean reducing the proc dmg/heal significantly)?

The skill is expensive and it just has such little impact in most scenarios, other than the occasional corkblocking someone's burst window (which a javelin would do better). People cast it on me and I just thank them politely for the free CC immunity and then go ham on offense.

I've lobbied for reducing the proc effects by ~ 50% to compensate for removal of the "CC". Then you KNOW what you are getting when you cast it - a minor DOT combined with a minor heal or a timed burst (the unstable boom needs a buff though).

Would this he something we'd want the reps to push for?

Solariken wrote: »

I'm really curious how other Templars would feel about removing the CC component entirely from Eclipse (which would definitely mean reducing the proc dmg/heal significantly)?

The skill is expensive and it just has such little impact in most scenarios, other than the occasional corkblocking someone's burst window (which a javelin would do better). People cast it on me and I just thank them politely for the free CC immunity and then go ham on offense.

I've lobbied for reducing the proc effects by ~ 50% to compensate for removal of the "CC". Then you KNOW what you are getting when you cast it - a minor DOT combined with a minor heal or a timed burst (the unstable boom needs a buff though).

Would this he something we'd want the reps to push for?

Solariken wrote: »

I'm really curious how other Templars would feel about removing the CC component entirely from Eclipse (which would definitely mean reducing the proc dmg/heal significantly)?

The skill is expensive and it just has such little impact in most scenarios, other than the occasional corkblocking someone's burst window (which a javelin would do better). People cast it on me and I just thank them politely for the free CC immunity and then go ham on offense.

I've lobbied for reducing the proc effects by ~ 50% to compensate for removal of the "CC". Then you KNOW what you are getting when you cast it - a minor DOT combined with a minor heal or a timed burst (the unstable boom needs a buff though).

Would this he something we'd want the reps to push for?

We did have full DMG functionality via reflects and UC morph dealt more DMG before the change.

I'd say no.

SugaComa

Solariken wrote: »

I'm really curious how other Templars would feel about removing the CC component entirely from Eclipse (which would definitely mean reducing the proc dmg/heal significantly)?

The skill is expensive and it just has such little impact in most scenarios, other than the occasional corkblocking someone's burst window (which a javelin would do better). People cast it on me and I just thank them politely for the free CC immunity and then go ham on offense.

I've lobbied for reducing the proc effects by ~ 50% to compensate for removal of the "CC". Then you KNOW what you are getting when you cast it - a minor DOT combined with a minor heal or a timed burst (the unstable boom needs a buff though).

Would this he something we'd want the reps to push for?

Personally I feel it should be puragable and not breakable we have have *** cc as it is, forcing a palysr to purge over a quick break free and giving them immunity doesn't give a decent enough window to change gears ...

If it's unbreakable you force them to use a skill to purge or fight through it

radarsu

Fix the MagPlar PvP issues stated below:

1. MagPlar has to sacrifice almost EVERYTHING in order to be good or decent at SOMETHING:
> DPS - 0 sustain, 0 tankiness/escapes, decent damage, 0 movement.
> TANK - great sustain, great tankiness/escapes, 0 damage, little movement.
> Healer - great sustain, 0 tankiness/escapes, 0 damage, 0 movement.

How other classes work?
> DPS - great sustain, decent tankiness, great dps, fast as hell.
> TANK - great sustain, great tankiness/escapes, decent damage, fast as hell.
> Healer - great sustain, decent tankiness/escapes, 0 damage, little movement.

Generally speaking - only being healer is painful for other classes, while MagPlar being anything is just painful. Even as a healer, yes, you're the best, but if you're targetted by opponents you die 10x faster than any other healer class would.

In order to be good at something templar has to sacrifice everything for that.

I'm main MagPlar, tried a lot of different builds and sets to make him work in PvP, but nothing does well. Lack of burst and counter-mechanics makes you very easy target. It's just a pleasure to go and kill MagPlars. Even as MagPlar I find other MagPlars super-easy to kill.

Nightblade has overpowered invisibility, Sorc has overpowered shields and DragonKnight heals for 50% hp with single, very cheap heal while reflecting projectiles and staying almost immortal with a great amount of damage. My 10 lvl dragonknight was doing 600k dmg on Battlegrounds without gear, feeling powerful and immortal with just 5 weak skills and my 49 lvl MagPlar I put a lot of work in 400-600k. It felt and still feels useless. Weak in every field except healing teammates.

Solution 1: Make sun shield a viable skill, maybe by providing some buff while slotted, granting major vitality/expedition 20-30s after usage, switch scaling from max hp to magicka (by preference) or just increase it's damage by a lot. Templar needs something to survive burst from other classes and have "decent tankiness/escape" like other classes do, no matter what build he chooses.

Solution 2: Major expedition after using Focused Charge, that would give templar at least one option of increased movability (offensive-only, but still better than nothing).

2. Dark Flare... Is just a joke. You cast it for long time, then it travells to the sky, then it keeps going, travelling higher, higher, even HIGHER! Then it charges at enemy and finally... He dodges it. Even if he doesn't it's just 4-6k damage. Sorcs and other classes can do 10-15k dmg burst with 3 quickly casted skills while maintaining sustain/shields/invisibility. And you cast one, easiely dodgeable skill, being completely exposed to attacks and interruption. In best case scenario you end up dealing 6k dmg and taking 10k dmg while casting. In worst case (to be honest it's just a normal case) - you deal 0 damage, flare gets interrupted or dodged and you die.

Solution: Make flare like fossilize - cannot be blocked or dodged. Even it may still be not enough - it's worth a try.

ccmedaddy

^ No offense but none of your "fixes" are realistic. They would just make those skills broken OP and the forums would be overflowing with QQ threads about magplars. Like... 20s major vitality? Undodgeable Dark Flares? Come on.

Aethercat

@radarsu has a point. I've been devoted to my healer and I'm definitely squishy. Heals are potent, no complaints from teammates there, but if I get sucked into the fray then I'm definitely first to go. MagPlars need something significant to offer resilience aside from Restoring Light.

Gnortranermara

I'm pretty concerned that Templar is being over-buffed and will suffer drastic rebound nerfs later on.

Still, there are a number of QoL improvements I'd like to see. I'm not looking for strong DPS-boosting "buffs", but some basic QoL improvements to make the Templar kit more fun to play:

Sun Fire - The odd timer on this skill is frustrating. Easy fix: add 1 sec to the base skill to bring it up to 8 seconds total (with the duration passive). Lower the damage per tick so DPS stays about the same; the point is to make the buff last the full 8 seconds. Change the single target morph to increase the damage instead of the duration so it fits in a standard 8 sec rotation.

Cleansing Ritual - Consider a timer adjustment to 8 secs or 16 secs. Also, ticking once per second would be a huge improvement. Lower the values accordingly so there's no net change, just make it tick more frequently. This will make it feel more like a holy/sanctified ground ability and let it proc set effects more readily.

Major Sorcery - Templar needs a class source of Major Sorcery. Rattlecage sucks, Degeneration sucks, and potions are expensive. No other class is so needlessly screwed out of this essential buff. The best part is ZOS could easily give us Major Sorcery as a QoL improvement without buffing our overall DPS. It's simple, just add it to Cleansing Ritual, a weak HOT/DOT that hardcore DPS players won't be slotting anyway. They increased the cost by ~14% last year because they wanted to make the cleanse more expensive in PvP, but failed to give us a heal/damage boost to compensate PvE players. It's an under-performing skill now and this simple change would make it useful again and save us a lot of potions.

Burning Light - Change to 100% proc chance every 1 second per target (instead of 25% chance every 0.5 sec)! This would have the following effects: less single target DPS (1 proc instead of 2 per second), more upfront burst (on skills like Javelin, which is too weak compared to Master Destro), and more AOE DPS (procs on all targets instead of only one). The decrease in single target DPS is a fair trade-off to get more burst and AOE damage. Lower the damage by 10-15% if this change would over-perform.

Balanced Warrior - This passive is infuriating for a Magplar. WHY WHY WHY give weapon damage and not spell damage? +2/4% damage done and -2/4% damage taken would be perfect.

radarsu

ccmedaddy wrote: »

^ No offense but none of your "fixes" are realistic. They would just make those skills broken OP and the forums would be overflowing with QQ threads about magplars. Like... 20s major vitality? Undodgeable Dark Flares? Come on.

I suggested like 4 different options for every fix (not all at once!) and every option has a parameter like "duration, damage" that can be adjusted. Sun shield dealing more than 1k damage (~500 to players) would be op? Focused Charge granting movement speed for 3s after using would be op? I definitely don't think so. I believe there are good options in my suggestions.

Dark Flare:
Undodge'able fossilize with 2.5s stun and 3s snare (5.5s cc if you cannot break out) is fine?

Undodgeable Dark Flare still would be quite bad. Could become OP in Xv1 for executing people in open space, but usually when you want to cast it on player ONCE, you have to cast it 3-4 times because of trees, rocks, stairs, people running with incredible movement speed around every obstacle all the time. This skill is really far from having any viability. Casted skills need to be extremaly powerful to compensate their incredible clunkiness in PvP.

And yeah, you're right, 20s major vitality would be too long, but 6 or 9s could be fine. Of course - INSTEAD OF other buffs I suggested.

NobleX35

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

I'm pretty concerned that Templar is being over-buffed and will suffer drastic rebound nerfs later on.

How do you figure? From my perspective we’ve received more nerfs with this upcoming patch than buffs. The only “buffs” we’ve received are better sustain options for Stamplars, and a better offensive ult for magplars (arguably only for pve). Other than that here are the list of nerfs:

1. Lost minor vitality entirely
2. Minor protection is going to have a horrible uptime, and likely wont be up when you need to play defensively
3. Lost unique block mitigation just to swap for horrible minor protection uptime
4. Lost unique damage mitigation from the aedric spear defensive ult
5. Major evasion changes will have a much more significant impact against us specifically since our primary spammable and ultimates (including non class specific dawnbreaker) will have their damage reduced by 25%
6. Speed changes will have a noticable effect on stamplar defense

Stibbons

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

#BringBackBlindingLight
#MakeBlazingSpearGreatAgain
#SaveOurHouse

Templars need all of those.

Gnortranermara

NobleX35 wrote: »

How do you figure? From my perspective we’ve received more nerfs with this upcoming patch than buffs.

I don't think so. The buffs aren't huge, but bear in mind we're getting buffed at the same time other classes are being nerfed, which makes the relative change between classes larger.

Sun Shield, for instance. The shield size will be the same, 30% of Max Health, but the shield is getting stronger because it gains resistances. In the meantime, Sorc wards and Annulment have been capped to 50% of Max Health. The gap has been reduced dramatically, so even though Sun Shield still isn't "great" it's a little better than it was while the other wards are a bit worse than they were.

Puncturing Strikes is also a little stronger and much easier to aim. Nice buff there.

Spear Shards is getting a significant damage boost to bring it up to par with other class DOTs, while still providing the same synergy utility as before. That's great news for Magplars, and not bad for Stamplars either (who use it as a Magicka dump, to proc Burning Light, and for the Spear Wall passive).

Javelin knockdown is a great buff for Stamplars.

Radiant can allow an extra light attack weave now, and won't cost as much when it gets cancelled early (for whatever reason). Another nice buff there.

Spear Wall was garbage before. It was 15% mitigation on incoming melee damage that you block. Unless you're a tank, what percentage of incoming damage is "melee damage that you block"? Realistically, for Templars saddled with 800 channeled abilities, not much. The new passive is much better. Put Spear Shards halfway through your rotation, separated from Sweeps by 1-2 other abilities, and you'll get 8% mitigation on everything with a really good uptime, at least 6 out of every 8 seconds. Fair trade there, for both Magplars (who were not getting Minor Protection at all before) and Stamplars (who now have a lower uptime in exchange for better sustain).

And as you already noted, the stam Rune and boosted Spear ulti damage are also good buffs. I personally think they should revert the cost changes and make the stam Rune cost Magicka to give Stamplars another Magicka dump, but it's good either way.

NobleX35 wrote: »

1. Lost minor vitality entirely

So...? For Magplars, who needs it? We overheal anyway. For Stamplars.... sure, it's a nerf, but it's the only significant one we got this patch so in the grand scheme of things not so bad.

NobleX35 wrote: »

2. Minor protection is going to have a horrible uptime, and likely wont be up when you need to play defensively

6 out of every 8 seconds is 75%. That's decent uptime, especially for Magplars who had 0 uptime before.

NobleX35 wrote: »

3. Lost unique block mitigation just to swap for horrible minor protection uptime

A fair trade, IMO.

NobleX35 wrote: »

4. Lost unique damage mitigation from the aedric spear defensive ult

Well, we didn't "lose" it. It got traded out for better damage, which is what Magplars needed anyway. And the defensive ulti choice wasn't "lost", it went to Stamplars, who can make good use of it. This was a very good change all around.

NobleX35 wrote: »

5. Major evasion changes will have a much more significant impact against us specifically since our primary spammable and ultimates (including non class specific dawnbreaker) will have their damage reduced by 25%

Yes, as far as PvP goes this is a legitimate concern. But it's something the class reps already brought up that might hopefully be addressed before Murkmire goes live. If not, then Templars will just have to suck it up and switch to single target in PvP. Adapt and overcome.

NobleX35 wrote: »

6. Speed changes will have a noticable effect on stamplar defense

Out of all the classes, Templars are the least affected by these speed changes. It's not us, but every other class that is suffering this one. Remember: we're the only class without Major Expedition on a class skill. The speed nerfs make it more demanding for the others to maintain high mobility, but will barely affect us at all since we had no mobility to begin with. I'm glad they're closing this gap because I'm absolutely sick of chasing "people" (HONORLESS COWARDS) that I simply can't catch. Now when I finally do catch them they'll be out of juice and pay for their cowardice in blood.

radarsu

I agree with @SidewalkChalk5. Changes are generally good. We have no reasons to complain about the direction of changes. The problem is - they're not enough. Please just pick MagPlar and go at Battleground right now. You'll see how far behind he is from other classes. All the small buffs and nerfs from patch gonna make us better for sure, but far from EQUAL to other classes. In Murkmire - it's decided - we keep on staying behind. Don't hope for a change in that matter.

Btw. sorc shield nerf was great idea, just amount of crying made ZOS undo cast time changes and this way sorcs ain't getting a nerf they needed. I just got stomped by full-sorc team that literally were all unkillable (permashield that also blocked all CC) and they kept instakilling me and my friend nightblade. I was running Shacklebreaker + Pirate Visage + Cyrodill's Light, so almost full tanky setup. Still got damage like 6000 + 4000 from mages wrath, crystal shards in 0.1s etc. Not to mention their incredible movement speed giving them huge advantage in objectives. I hope some day they either fix or delete MagPlars to prevent people from picking it, cause except being Dungeon healer this class is really disappointing. My no-gear 40 lvl Dragonknight would do so much better in 50 lvl BG's...

NobleX35

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

How do you figure? From my perspective we’ve received more nerfs with this upcoming patch than buffs.

I don't think so. The buffs aren't huge, but bear in mind we're getting buffed at the same time other classes are being nerfed, which makes the relative change between classes larger.

Sun Shield, for instance. The shield size will be the same, 30% of Max Health, but the shield is getting stronger because it gains resistances. In the meantime, Sorc wards and Annulment have been capped to 50% of Max Health. The gap has been reduced dramatically, so even though Sun Shield still isn't "great" it's a little better than it was while the other wards are a bit worse than they were.

This isnt really a buff because shields can now be crit. This shield may perform better in pve, but it still going to be crap in pvp.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Puncturing Strikes is also a little stronger and much easier to aim. Nice buff there.

This was almost necessary considering the changes to major evasion are going to make this skill do 25% less damage to anyone with the major evasion buff active. I will admitt that the better targeting will help.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Spear Shards is getting a significant damage boost to bring it up to par with other class DOTs, while still providing the same synergy utility as before. That's great news for Magplars, and not bad for Stamplars either (who use it as a Magicka dump, to proc Burning Light, and for the Spear Wall passive).

Nice PvE boost for magplars...

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Javelin knockdown is a great buff for Stamplars.

I main a stamplar and I am not excited about this change. The knock back is more difficult to get out of than a regular stun...just another nerf imo. People who complain about it knocking the target out of range need to learn how to move with the target...

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Radiant can allow an extra light attack weave now, and won't cost as much when it gets cancelled early (for whatever reason). Another nice buff there.

Yet another PvE magplar buff...starting to notice a pattern.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Spear Wall was garbage before. It was 15% mitigation on incoming melee damage that you block. Unless you're a tank, what percentage of incoming damage is "melee damage that you block"? Realistically, for Templars saddled with 800 channeled abilities, not much. The new passive is much better. Put Spear Shards halfway through your rotation, separated from Sweeps by 1-2 other abilities, and you'll get 8% mitigation on everything with a really good uptime, at least 6 out of every 8 seconds. Fair trade there, for both Magplars (who were not getting Minor Protection at all before) and Stamplars (who now have a lower uptime in exchange for better sustain).

The point is that we lost something unique for something we already had. The passive only grants minor protection for 3 seconds, which in pvp is not enough time. You can not always play offensively in pvp, which means that when you need to play defensively and actually need the mitigation the most...you wont have it up.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

And as you already noted, the stam Rune and boosted Spear ulti damage are also good buffs. I personally think they should revert the cost changes and make the stam Rune cost Magicka to give Stamplars another Magicka dump, but it's good either way.

The spear ult was another good change for magplars...not for stamplars. Major protection is becoming widely more available, so I would have rather kept the unique damage mitigation that the old magicka ult provided. Personally Im fine with the rune costing stamina, as it makes sense since the magicka variant costs magicka. I dont really care either way, and besides...this just means I get to use extended ritual more often.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

1. Lost minor vitality entirely

So...? For Magplars, who needs it? We overheal anyway. For Stamplars.... sure, it's a nerf, but it's the only significant one we got this patch so in the grand scheme of things not so bad.

This is a pretty significant nerf for stamplars and our healing potential. This may push many to go heavy armor just to get the 8% back.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

2. Minor protection is going to have a horrible uptime, and likely wont be up when you need to play defensively

6 out of every 8 seconds is 75%. That's decent uptime, especially for Magplars who had 0 uptime before.

Where do you get 6/8 seconds. The buff only lasts for 3 seconds. Unless youre doing nothing but spamming jabs...the uptime is going to be pretty low.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

3. Lost unique block mitigation just to swap for horrible minor protection uptime

A fair trade, IMO.

Would have preferred to not lose something unique, and instead have it receive a legitimate buff.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

4. Lost unique damage mitigation from the aedric spear defensive ult

Well, we didn't "lose" it. It got traded out for better damage, which is what Magplars needed anyway. And the defensive ulti choice wasn't "lost", it went to Stamplars, who can make good use of it. This was a very good change all around.

I was already referring to the defensive ult, and we did lose the unique defense it provided. Major protection is a pretty generic buff at this point, I would have rathered kept the unique 15% damage mitigation + 4% per extra target hit. This was a cool buff even though the skill underperformed, which I would argue was due to the small radius.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

5. Major evasion changes will have a much more significant impact against us specifically since our primary spammable and ultimates (including non class specific dawnbreaker) will have their damage reduced by 25%

Yes, as far as PvP goes this is a legitimate concern. But it's something the class reps already brought up that might hopefully be addressed before Murkmire goes live. If not, then Templars will just have to suck it up and switch to single target in PvP. Adapt and overcome.

We are running out of pts cycles so lets hope it gets addressed, otherwise this will be a huge nerf.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

NobleX35 wrote: »

6. Speed changes will have a noticable effect on stamplar defense

Out of all the classes, Templars are the least affected by these speed changes. It's not us, but every other class that is suffering this one. Remember: we're the only class without Major Expedition on a class skill. The speed nerfs make it more demanding for the others to maintain high mobility, but will barely affect us at all since we had no mobility to begin with. I'm glad they're closing this gap because I'm absolutely sick of chasing "people" (HONORLESS COWARDS) that I simply can't catch. Now when I finally do catch them they'll be out of juice and pay for their cowardice in blood.

This is completely inaccurate. If anything these changes effect us the most. I run nothing but speed pots on my stamplar because mobility is king, especially for solo/smallscale pvp. Now we have even fewer sources of reliable speed.

I guess if you play a magplar then maybe you’ll ne excited for this patch, but as a stamplar I see mostly nerfs. The only thing that is getting better is sustain, while basically everything else is taking a hit.

Gnortranermara

NobleX35 wrote: »

Where do you get 6/8 seconds. The buff only lasts for 3 seconds. Unless youre doing nothing but spamming jabs...the uptime is going to be pretty low.

Like I said:

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Put Spear Shards halfway through your rotation, separated from Sweeps by 1-2 other abilities, and you'll get 8% mitigation on everything with a really good uptime, at least 6 out of every 8 seconds.

You get 3 secs after any Aedric Spear ability cast. Just an off-the-cuff example:

DOT1 -> DOT2 -> Shards -> DOT3 -> HA -> Sweeps/Jabs

The 3 sec from Shards would cover you while applying DOT3 and the HA, then the 3 sec from Sweeps/Jabs would cover you while reapplying DOTs 1 and 2.

(Yes, Stamplars use Shards in PvE. It's low damage but good for other reasons outlined above already: Magicka dump, Burning Light procs, the synergy, and enabling passives, which now include the Spear Wall buff.)

NobleX35 wrote: »

If anything these changes effect us the most. I run nothing but speed pots on my stamplar

Then it affects "PvP Stamplars who are reliant on speed pots", not Templars in general or even Stamplars in general. My original statement that this patch is generally good for Templars isn't a statement about every single possible Templar build in the universe. It couldn't possibly be. I'm talking about most Templars. It's true for PvE Magplars, PvE Healers, PvE Stamplars, PvP Magplars, PvP Healers, and even the PvP Stamplars who were not reliant on speed pots. It's also good for Tankplars who can now get Minor Protection from Sun Shield and stam recovery from Rune. Pretty much everyone except your particular Stamplar build, I guess. I mean, sorry the generalization doesn't apply to you, but it's still generally true.