[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

Minno

BNOC wrote: »

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Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Sun Fire: tool tip says that it grant major prophecy upon activation, but it misleading. Unlike Biting Jabs that grant Major Savagery upon activation of skill, Sun Fire grant its buff only when dot activated for duration of dot. It allow to track damage portion by customize addon to track buff, but in pvp it makes it bit worse.
When target missed or dodged or reflected your Sun Fire, i.e. dot not proc - you not gain benefit of activating skill:

It should be fixed so even when "dodge", "miss" or reflected status proced for dot part - its buff still triggering.

2. Spear Wall passive: its duration should be equalized with minor mending passive with its 4sec duration. Reason of why Sacred Ground was nerfed to be minor mending is coz its high uptime even 100%, so minor buff should have high uptime.Same as mending you can get high uptime of protection by spamming jabs of even use Shards on other bar to not loose passive but Spear Wall was changed to be independent of aedric skill being slotted allowing to swapping bars without loosing passive but as sec when you use to proc passive by main spammable - Jabs, it leave 1.5sec of its actual usage, thats not enough to swap bar and cast abilities then swap back, having 2.5sec would be more reliable.
So I suggest to change duration of it from 1.5/3 into at least 2/4sec.

3. Solar Barrage: before murkmire its damage was exactly equal to damage of Shards and lower utility, but after Shards got ~60% damage it again became supbar ability that have much less damage than Shards with lower utility than Shards. It just not fair.
So I suggest to rebalance Barrage to reduce amount of tick from 4 to 3 and buff its damage for 40%(return to old damage).
So, if take damage pre-change as default than current Barrage would look like 60%+60%+60%+60%=240% while with 3ticks it would be 100%+100%+100%+0%=300%; 300-240=60% more bursty damage in exchange of higher mana spending and requirement to be activated more often.

4. Eclipse:tested it a lot in group and solo and it really underwhelming now. so now it grant CC immunity for duration of skill to prevent bypassing cc cooldown and cc immunity after skill is purged and expired. That require rebalancing of skill again. Irony is that npc eclipse was getting this treatment and no longer grant cc immunity when purged or expired, even tho it already strong as being old reflect version of eclipse. With this new mechanic enemy have potential 13sec of immunity (6eclipse+7 cc immunity cooldown), while also loosing its key utility of original revamp - in exchange of ignoring break free for saving stamina pool of bubble enemy supposed to hurt himself, but now in ex change of saving his stamina on break free and being hurted enemy also have cc immunity that ignore cc immunity cooldown timer. It means he cant be affected by hard CCs or disabling which made eclipse to work in group utility, for twice that duration of original cc timer. If simply - Eclipse now decreased risk taken and now grant more benefit to enemy.
To fix this I see couple ways:
1. should be done what was done with npc eclipse - no longer grant cc immunity on expire or cleanse. Eclipse is not hard CC, it not disabling enemy, preventing him from attacking, moving, healing. It allow enemy to fully control his character in bubble, so if bubble grant cc immunity, while not punish enemy like other hards ccs - enemy should not have granted cc immunity cooldown passively by doing nothing, he should have chose to either break free to gain immunity and no damage taken, or keep bubble cc immunity on him in exchange of receive damage.
With such change to bubble as it still wont being hard cc so it wont be able to lead to such situation like this:

^^ when hard cc disable you and not grant cc immunity after making so your character stuck in hard CCs..
Also in exchange of 100% loss of group utility and given that it can serve only as anti-offense skill that have no effect when target moving/retreating/recasting buffs (that is what experienced people do while having bubble on them - using other combat features like recasting buffs or reapply dots that wont hurt coz of eclipse mechanic during bubble duration and after it's expire continue to bursting caster) its mechanics of having 0.750sec cooldown or possibility to proc only on 1st tick of dot could reviewed to grant enemy more incenitive to break free bubble and less option to bypass its damage proc, pushing skill more into unique 1vX CC skill.
2. if cc immunity on expire remain - than bubble should become unbreakable again. Enemy will have 13sec of cc immunity but at least half of it he will be under debuff that will punish him for attacking.

5. Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

6. Radiant Aura: have low usability due to minor manasteal nerf while retain its cost and later become totaly useless due to changes of staffs. Given that debuff form Aura cant be stacked to gain more return and still have problem when invisible enemies getting immunity to debuff apply due to band-aid fix to prevent it revealing enemies or can purge it resulting in cost-utility to be too bad to use Aura. Using Drain that provide manasteal and strong major debuff for zero cost and can be spammed as much as you want is far more benefical, it old drawback that it was forcing to use staffs, but this drawback was completely removed when staffs count as 2pieces and its attacks scales of max mana, making staffs bis weapons for magica users. Drain+staff with its "only benefits" in pve and pvp completely remove needs of Aura with it way-to-easy ways to be countered and problem of minor passive buffs attached to skillbar, preventing effective usage from backbar.
So, given that templar lack of major sorcery skill how about change skill to provide major sorcery upon activation of skill while apply buff on yourself that proc minor manasteal debuff on enemy that hit caster,for 5sec. Given how Leeching Vines proved that this mechanic working flawlessly - adopt it for Aura would fix all its problems of force to be ranged ability and do lot of aoe server calculations or that invisibility allow to evade debuff. Also even when debuff wont work skill price will be repaid by its providing of major sorcery.

7. Extended Ritual: it work as templar semi-mitigation skill and providing possibility for mobility but it have problem of cleansing being either too much and it mobility capability being not enough.
In pvp battlefield is full or snares and rotos that can reapply itself, making purging them simply a waste.
Here is one example of such mechanic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^ you simply cant have your cleanse to actually get rid of debuffs coz it will be wasted on cleasning self-reapplayable 3-4 snare/root debuff, forcing templar to loose most of cleanse utility and loose its mobility. Even DK with its new scales can have higher mobility and mitigation than non-vampire templar spamming extended ritual.
However when field not filled with those things getting 5 cleanses can provide too much mitigation by cleansing 5 dots esp for vampire templar who can bypass mobility problem by Mist while retain 5 cleanses, and thus if templar ever get proper damage preemptive ability(lack of which is main problem of templar class) - its tankability will become too much.
So, I suggest to trade 1-2 cleanses for 1-2sec of roots/snare immunity. However with such change granting immunity should be calculating prior to debuff cleanse to not being wasted in vain. With such change when you have like 13 different debuffs on you and 3-4 of them is self-reapplayale snares - cast of ritual will allow to timely get rid of them while debuffs cleanse will cleanse actual debuffs but in less amount. Simply less tankability for higher mobility exchange.

And that is why I don't use reflective light anymore.

Great work! I agree with everything here. They havea chance to really fix eclipse here.

Everything excluding the Extended Ritual suggestion makes sense.

Put the snare immunity on Ritual of Retribution and have away with the damage component.
Don't remove the 5 cleanse or 'tankier' option as you called it.

They can do that as well.

StarOfElyon

I started playing this game about two months ago and I've been playing a light armor magicka templar in a healer role for PVE. But when I switched to a more offensive style to try PVP in the battlegrounds, I quickly found out my character was severely outmatched. The templar class abilities are either broken (Dark Flare cancels unless the target remains perfectly still) or they feel underpowered. So many of their abilities are set-ups (Purifying Light) or damage over time (Vampire's Bane). When I'm up against fast opponents who are trying to kill me ASAP, I don't have time to wait for my attacks to do damage over 8 seconds or 12 seconds. Also, from what I've noticed as a magicka based fighter, once I get crowd controlled, I'm pretty much stuck trying to heal or break out until they put me out of my misery. Maybe it's just my perspective because I've only played one character so far, but it seems like the only way to stay alive in the game must be to play a sorcerer or a tank.

Neoauspex

I'm all in on the snare immunity morph if Ritual. It'd also be kinda cool if one morph cleansed 5 effects instantly and the other cleansed 1 instantly and then another ever 1 second you're in the radius, to counter the constant reapplication of effects (bleeds).

Solariken

Neoauspex wrote: »

I'm all in on the snare immunity morph if Ritual. It'd also be kinda cool if one morph cleansed 5 effects instantly and the other cleansed 1 instantly and then another ever 1 second you're in the radius, to counter the constant reapplication of effects (bleeds).

Yeah I've suggested similar before - I'd like to see this:

Ritual of Retribution - No generic cleanses but 4s of root/snare immunity. Keeps the heal, damage, and passive effects but ticks per 1 second and scales on highest max stat.

Extended Ritual - Cleanses 4 effects immediately and one additional effect every 2 seconds while in the circle.

Minno

Solariken wrote: »

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Neoauspex wrote: »

I'm all in on the snare immunity morph if Ritual. It'd also be kinda cool if one morph cleansed 5 effects instantly and the other cleansed 1 instantly and then another ever 1 second you're in the radius, to counter the constant reapplication of effects (bleeds).

Yeah I've suggested similar before - I'd like to see this:

Ritual of Retribution - No generic cleanses but 4s of root/snare immunity. Keeps the heal, damage, and passive effects but ticks per 1 second and scales on highest max stat.

Extended Ritual - Cleanses 4 effects immediately and one additional effect every 2 seconds while in the circle.

I like this. One morph for DMG/healing per second and root/snare immunity, and the other reinforcing the stand your ground.

StarOfElyon

NBrookus wrote: »

PVP Pain Point #2 - Buffs. For a fight you need at least Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy and an armor buff. Templar has no class access to Major Sorcery and has to rely on Entropy, or a potion, or Rattlecage. Entropy is terrible at 14 seconds, requires a target, and does nothing else really useful. Our armor buff is a big glowy circle on the ground so you can't cast it on the down low. Our Major Prophecy also requires a target. Magplar can't pre-buff for fights or run around a corner and fully buff up. By the time you finish buffing for a fight, you may very well be on your back foot needing to heal and turning fight around from defensive to offensive is a challenge on templar.

Suggestion: Make one morph of Entropy not require a target and have a longer duration.

Bonus point: Blazing Shield. Make this useful, please.

I can't tell you how big this is to me. I get so jealous (and terrified) when I see sorcs and tanks buffing up before coming at me. I don't get any kind of advantage until I hit them with a set up attack first. I'm always setting up to do damage and doing damage over time, while they're fully powered. Then they CC me and unleash their heaviest hitting attacks. After that, I'm too busy trying to heal or get my shields back up to follow up on my set-up attack.

Jabbs_Giggity

StarOfElyon wrote: »

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NBrookus wrote: »

PVP Pain Point #2 - Buffs. For a fight you need at least Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy and an armor buff. Templar has no class access to Major Sorcery and has to rely on Entropy, or a potion, or Rattlecage. Entropy is terrible at 14 seconds, requires a target, and does nothing else really useful. Our armor buff is a big glowy circle on the ground so you can't cast it on the down low. Our Major Prophecy also requires a target. Magplar can't pre-buff for fights or run around a corner and fully buff up. By the time you finish buffing for a fight, you may very well be on your back foot needing to heal and turning fight around from defensive to offensive is a challenge on templar.

Suggestion: Make one morph of Entropy not require a target and have a longer duration.

Bonus point: Blazing Shield. Make this useful, please.

I can't tell you how big this is to me. I get so jealous (and terrified) when I see sorcs and tanks buffing up before coming at me. I don't get any kind of advantage until I hit them with a set up attack first. I'm always setting up to do damage and doing damage over time, while they're fully powered. Then they CC me and unleash their heaviest hitting attacks. After that, I'm too busy trying to heal or get my shields back up to follow up on my set-up attack.

Templar definitely needs a major sorcery/brutality from class skills. I main stamplar and run dw main bar. Would love to not have to back bar 2h for brutality...even adding brutality to dw line that doesn't require target would be good. I know wrong thread but quick cloak stays same deadly cloak gets major brutality.
The problem is templar has limited bar space because of lack of proper skill toolkit to maximize dps and buffs.

StarOfElyon

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Vajrak

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Or you need to learn to build for them and cover the weaknesses while playing Templar to its strengths. Just an idea.

StarOfElyon

Vajrak wrote: »

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StarOfElyon wrote: »

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Or you need to learn to build for them and cover the weaknesses while playing Templar to its strengths. Just an idea.

A snarky comment, at best.

StarOfElyon

Vajrak wrote: »

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StarOfElyon wrote: »

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Or you need to learn to build for them and cover the weaknesses while playing Templar to its strengths. Just an idea.

Tell me about your Mag-Templar build, Vajrak.

Minno

StarOfElyon wrote: »

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Vajrak wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Or you need to learn to build for them and cover the weaknesses while playing Templar to its strengths. Just an idea.

Tell me about your Mag-Templar build, Vajrak.

I think I want to see both builds.

Templar has weakness, but it's understood that they are ina balanced place right now so those weaknesses are to be built around.

Jabbs_Giggity

Vajrak wrote: »

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StarOfElyon wrote: »

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Or you need to learn to build for them and cover the weaknesses while playing Templar to its strengths. Just an idea.

@StarOfElyon can you elaborate on your issues?
@Vajrak your comments are rude and not helpful.

This isn't a build or combat play thread, but both magicka and stamina templar has weaknesses that currently far out weigh their strengths. One of my biggest pain points is jabs/sweeps: the damage tooltip, compared to ALL other class "spammables" is at best half to one third the damage plus a channel that leaves you extremely vulnerable to interrupts, CC's, or being bursted through lack of defense. The only spammable on par with jabs in terms of tooltip damage is DW rapid strikes. Now add in the AOE factor that can be mitigated by 25%, on top of battle spirit in PVP. Burning light, for those who want to get smart, does not proc as often as you think, nor for as high of damage as you think and it requires your skill to actually hit the target - another issue.

I am currently running s2w on mine and it does work, but not as effectively as a stamsorc or stamden. Only alternative for stamplars that is viable is running dw masters and relying on bleeds to kill at the moment.

Cinbri

One of templar problems is its class identity that oriented for group. Nowdays every class can easily achieve high group utility through weapon, etc. skills but they can achieve it as addition to its class while templar core utility severed as being forced for group. It resulting that it can have group utility equal to other classes but solo or as class per se templar is intentionally toned down to perform less viably. That resulting in peoples vision of templar as class for just healing/supporting, i.e. just to carry other classes, and that is sadly justified.
Worst ones:
Light Weaver - get ult to group when use group heal with other 2 effects to benefit group skills.
Master Ritualist - no utility for class itself and even in group play it is like 2%uptime of passive (during channeling res). Thats not how class passive should perform.
Rite of Passage - core function of ult is pure group support, where Remembrance trying to be self-oriented morph but it contradict core function and as result cant actually save caster.
Backlash -with morphs utility to benefit for solo and group, its core function is currently too dependant on group utility.
Ritual of Retribution - its new effect of dot wasnt added inexchange of hot but of cleanse, i.e. not in cost of group utility but of caster survivability.

Another problem is templar capability of killing stuff.
And top offender of those 2 problems - bad damage and too much group-oriented is Backlash:
What supposed to be templar burst damage skill, like assassin will.
Its morphs already benefit group and caster either as armor debuff or aoe hot, but its main function is too group oriented with its low store damage because % of damage can be stored by uncapped amount of allies(making it perfect Xv1 skill). As result to it skill perform as it shouldnt - low damage for solo and highest possible damage in Xv1, making its damage low for damage oriented templar while granting highest damage for healers where damage stored by allies. No matter how much damage caster will deal himself - he wont reach cap (wont even reach half of what assassin will can hit for) while when someone got fight outnumbered 10v1 which will already inevitably end in death - he will be hitted for capped damage that probably finish him.
It should be looked at to become class burst damage not group damage skill.
So I suggest to change its core mechanic and remove group utility - make it so that amount of stored damage by any allies to be 0%, while buffing its overall damage by either increase damage percentage stored by caster (like back before Patch 2.7.5 where copied damage increased by 50% against other player characters, reduced from 100% to promote that its dps built on damage dealt in 5sec timespan which is hard to do in pvp); or by increase amount of released damage from 20% into higher percentage or scaling of stats[to prevent large impact of procsets](like back before Patch 2.3.5 where damage stored was decreased by 66% in exchange of increasing cap) . Its cap that currently exist to limitate damage from group (which actually doesnt help coz currently it can be reached in situation when you recieve so much damage that even caped backlash will execute you) can be remained(as it scale of max mana that beneficial for dps oriented), just increase possibility to store enough damage for this skill to actually count as class dps skill.
Either any change of its formula of %stored + %stored of Xpeople =release as uncrittable 20% with cap.
Make it to work so that if you damage templar - you have burst dps skill, if you not - it still can provide it group utility by morphs but will be less desirable to slot.

Vajrak

StarOfElyon wrote: »

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Vajrak wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Or you need to learn to build for them and cover the weaknesses while playing Templar to its strengths. Just an idea.

Tell me about your Mag-Templar build, Vajrak.

Current build for PvP:
Race: Breton

Rattlecage (Jewelry with 2 of the arcane uniques, one regular) - Chest+2x Destro Staff (Sharpened)
Julianos 5x (medium piece in here)
Iceheart because the shield pops often enough to not mind having it.

Using: Blue Mag HP Food
Front Bar: Sweeps, Purifying, Unstable Core, Structured Entropy, Inner Light, Destro Ult
Back Bar: Radiant Glory, Blazing Spear, Wall (will use unstable as my PvP specific one gets higher up), Structured Entropy, Inner Light, Sweep ult

Entropy dual bar just for the hp boost, with blue food and rattle lets me sit at a reasonable 25k hp pool, sometimes I get lazy and will flex out unstable for ritual of ret or channeled focus, depends on the game mode (Deathmatch vs Cap and Hold)

Sweeps is there for the 1vX situations, and usually lets me sustain just long enough to pull the win or have backup arrive.
The rest is for moving with the group, laying down ground-pound.

1v1 can vary wildly, but this is just "lazy" swaps to bring my PvE Magplar into PvP while I'm working up/refining my PvP one (farming more Rattlecage + Vicious Death)

Alternate backbar is sharpened fire staff + soul shatter + radiant glory with purifying light initial from the front bar.

Other builds I've used in the past utilized "Clappy Hands" more, but since it's been nerfed so hard I really don't touch it currently, I have used a hybrid rg/recovery with stacked hp and blazing shield for giggles on point holding, and that is usually geared towards maximized hp, recovery, and healing % bonuses --- using a sharpened resto with mutagen for those "oh crap" windows.

Mobility on stampy (until deletion, mostly cuz got tired of it) was just all medium and just get close enough to Spear knock>PotL>Crit Charge>Execute; wasn't guaranteed, but let me play the "Heavy Cavalry" design of Templar well -- coming in and busting down a flank.

Stapes

Speaking from a Magicka based PvP perspective (because I don't PvE)

The Buff's from the Murkmire patch were good, but still don't lift the class in some area's that I feel need addressing...

Concerns:

Major Sorcery/brutality - As previously mentioned, the lack of class access to this buff is a concern. Nightblades have access via Sap Essence. Dragon Knights through Molten weapons and Wardens through Blue Betty Netch (which doesn't even cost anything and provides resource return.
Suggestions:
1) Structured Entropy - I actually really like the suggestion listed above in this thread around removing the target requirement and health return and replacing it with an instant cast buff like mage light. This also helps out Sorcerer's while helping players self buff for a fight in any circumstance
2) The Psijic skill Elemental weapon was an excellent opportunity to do this but instead we got another light attack proc ability...

Radiant Destruction - This ability is far from being perfected given the constant changes to cast time, damage scaling, damage, etc. While looking at abilities with the most killing blows through the kill counter add on, this was nowhere near the top. My top skills were Puncturing sweep, Burning light (a passive no less!) and Vampire's Bane. Given that its an execute ability, it peaked my concern. I've also found that it's incredibly ineffective in small scale fights unless against inexperienced players. I also find the remaining magicka component of radiant oppression rather useless because i'm usually nowhere near full resources when using an execute in a small scale fight. This mechanic only really serves those at the back of a zerg when your sustain is much better imho.
My suggestions are:
1) Increase the base damage and reduce the scaling for execute range (currently 480%) so that it becomes more viable (its currently not worth using on a player even at 10% health (Zerg fights aside).
2) Change it from a channeled ability and make it an instant cast ability like the Nightblade Assassins Blade morph, Killers Blade. This allows the execute to be more effective and in line with other executes in the game (killers blade, executioner).
3) Remove radiant and create a new skill (such as a Major Sorcery/Brutality buff or a single target melee dps skill) in its place and move the execute to Aurora Javelin. This works for suggestion 2 and also solves the other issue of it being a channeled ability. (nb. I would love to have a good melee single target ability like Lava whip or surprise attack. Perhaps even the sword ability the player uses to finish off Molag Baal in the main quest... This could work by switching it with Blazing shield into the Aedric Spear tree)

Backlash, Purifying Light morph - While the stamina morph is an excellent skill, to me, this is what the magicka morph should also offer. It provides the minor fracture/minor breech de-buff while also proving to be a valuable DPS ability for stam users.
Suggestions:
1) This seemed to be designed to be a healing skill (we already have heaps of those). Instead of providing an AoE heal (a weak one at that), perhaps giving a de-buff along the lines of Minor Maim on the player is viable or add a buff that provides the caster with a minor offensive buff. Example: Minor Berserk/Heroism/force
2) Change the ability to a Magicka version of power of the light and make it into an offensive ability by providing minor breech/fracture to the target.

Eclipse, Total Dark morph - The potential for the skill is excellent and gives the Templar class something very unique, however I find it frustrating to use. Fighting anyone using an immovable pot (which is most players these days) means I am unable to cast this ability because it's a CC so one of my best abilities is useless. The damage and heal is good and requires the opponent to think and use counter play to be effective, however, it also now seems to provide the target with 13 seconds of CC imunity because while cast, the target cannot be knocked down, and there is no knock down or stun when the effect ends.
Suggestions:
1) Remove the CC effect so the ability can be cast at any point but add minor defile or minor fracture/breech to it.
2) Add a knockdown or stun when the effect ends. This then provides the skill with a justified CC effect.

Puncturing Sweeps - The class melee spamable... While an excellent mob clearing skill (i will clear a resource with this skill alone). The heal is nice, the spear wall passive goes well with it too. However, in PvP and single target situations, the skill misses more than it hits because it's conal AoE. The change to Major Evasion in Murkmire also significantly reduced the damage output (already laughable) for our class spamable which is a major (if not only) source of DPS.
Suggestions:
1) Remove the conal damage and make it a single target ability with splash damage. This should address the hitbox issues this ability seems to have while also keeping the AoE part by having splash damage to nearby enemies. This would also negate the 25% reduced damage taken from the change to major evasion
2) Increase the damage
3) Return the stun/knock down on the final hit
4) Fix the animation to allow for improved/better weaving

Ultimate abilities
The fact I still have non-class abilites as my Ultimate choices is a concern in my eyes. I run Soul Assult because its more effective than radiant at executing players and winning fights. I also use Vampire's Devouring Swarm as it provides me with an AoE ability to "go on the offensive and turn the fight around." - Wrobel (something an Ultimate ability should do)

Crescent sweep- Still underwhelming for me. I find it more likely to miss than hit my target (Could just be L2P/lag/targeting issues). It was mentioned in the last patch notes that the latest change was made so that magicka templar's had class access to an ability similar to Dawn Breaker. Given the fact that Dawn Breaker still has a knockdown, it is still a better choice. Its also more likely to hit too. Tthe Damage over time may be more but i really haven't seen it be effective for me as yet.
Suggestions:
1) Add a knockdown/knockback/stun (You are swinging a spear around after all). Also increase the initial damage for more burst and reduce the DoT to balance.
2) Rework the skill and give us a magicka scaling version or dawnbreaker
3) Give us the sword skill that the player uses to kill Molag Baal with in the main quest

Nova - A popular skill to slot on raids and dungeon adventures for healers due to the synergy group members can use but it fails to serve any real purpose on the PvP battlefield due it being ground based and expensive.
Suggestions:
1) Add a 40%? snare to the base ability and leave it in the morphs. This then becomes an excellent ability to use against groups while not buffing them in bottle necks. Perhaps a second negative effect on enemies for one morph, while the other offers offensive buffs for group members
2) Add major defile to enemies and major ward/resolve for group members standing in it. Further reinforcing the templar's hold your ground style of play. As the class also has access to those buffs, perhaps minor heroism would be a better choice.

I have seen the suggestions around extended ritual and removing instant clense's while adding cc immunity but I don't believe that is the answer. Merely adding a counter to counter other counters is not the way forward with gameplay. Certain parts of the game have been introduced that should never have been brought in to begin with and should be balanced accordingly first... but that's for another time and another post!

As I stated at the top, these are just observations and suggestions based on my templar and how I play/would like to play. I'd like to think they are reasonable with the idea of making the class competitive and raising the class up to other class levels instead of bringing other classes down.

This has taken way too much of my time now but I had to add it

Kadoin

I just wish templar had a REAL self-heal and/or smart healing didn't exist. Let the noobs enjoy smart heals, me? I don't like it in PvP or PvE. Maybe I'm the minority...

technohic

Switched back to Stamplar as I hadn't had a chance to try it since the last change. The stam return from restoring focus is nice and being able to use repentance if another templar is around is also nice, but vitality is sorely missed, more people running major evasion makes the spammable best for buffing crit for another attack.

Otherwise feels like somethings off and I may need to check my CP but maybe the penetration of light armor along with elemental drain had something to do with it, but I feel like I was doing more damage as magplar with 5 light shackle/impreg/bloodspawn than I am doing with 5 med ravager/cowards/bloodspawn with ravager procced. This is 2h front bar, 1h/shield back bar for stam; lightning staff front, 1h/shield back for magicka My theoretical number values seem like I should have a lot more raw damage for less crit resist. Would hate to have to switch to a bleed build to get through armor and AOE damage reduction

Looking, we dont have a lot of passives for stam. 6% weapon damage and slight cost reduction for the most part? I'd almost move the increased crit off of jabs and put it in the passive that gives magicka crit then add something like minor berserk or something on jabs in its place.

Joy_Division

Vajrak wrote: »

show previous quotes

StarOfElyon wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

StarOfElyon wrote: »

I hope the developers take a good look at the magicka Templar class. I do not want to play the "if you can't beat em, join 'em" game. I don't want to play a sorcerer or a DK just to be competitive.

Magplars have glaring weaknesses that need to be addressed.

Or you need to learn to build for them and cover the weaknesses while playing Templar to its strengths. Just an idea.

Tell me about your Mag-Templar build, Vajrak.

Current build for PvP:
Race: Breton

Rattlecage (Jewelry with 2 of the arcane uniques, one regular) - Chest+2x Destro Staff (Sharpened)
Julianos 5x (medium piece in here)
Iceheart because the shield pops often enough to not mind having it.

Using: Blue Mag HP Food
Front Bar: Sweeps, Purifying, Unstable Core, Structured Entropy, Inner Light, Destro Ult
Back Bar: Radiant Glory, Blazing Spear, Wall (will use unstable as my PvP specific one gets higher up), Structured Entropy, Inner Light, Sweep ult

Entropy dual bar just for the hp boost, with blue food and rattle lets me sit at a reasonable 25k hp pool, sometimes I get lazy and will flex out unstable for ritual of ret or channeled focus, depends on the game mode (Deathmatch vs Cap and Hold)

Sweeps is there for the 1vX situations, and usually lets me sustain just long enough to pull the win or have backup arrive.
The rest is for moving with the group, laying down ground-pound.

1v1 can vary wildly, but this is just "lazy" swaps to bring my PvE Magplar into PvP while I'm working up/refining my PvP one (farming more Rattlecage + Vicious Death)

Alternate backbar is sharpened fire staff + soul shatter + radiant glory with purifying light initial from the front bar.

Other builds I've used in the past utilized "Clappy Hands" more, but since it's been nerfed so hard I really don't touch it currently, I have used a hybrid rg/recovery with stacked hp and blazing shield for giggles on point holding, and that is usually geared towards maximized hp, recovery, and healing % bonuses --- using a sharpened resto with mutagen for those "oh crap" windows.

Mobility on stampy (until deletion, mostly cuz got tired of it) was just all medium and just get close enough to Spear knock>PotL>Crit Charge>Execute; wasn't guaranteed, but let me play the "Heavy Cavalry" design of Templar well -- coming in and busting down a flank.

I think this build is going to struggle Vs. an experienced player because it's entirely geared toward offense.

technohic

Kadoin wrote: »

I just wish templar had a REAL self-heal and/or smart healing didn't exist. Let the noobs enjoy smart heals, me? I don't like it in PvP or PvE. Maybe I'm the minority...

I'm not a fan either. Just the targeting system in general seems bad when it's not 100% manual aim yet trying to pinpoint a single target can be blocked while heals and buffs just go where needed. Really with how powerful that was is what started the BOL nerfs.

technohic

How about some positive feedback. Thanks for making repentance reliable. Ran into what looked like a mini ball group a few times and they were running ult dumps on random players around. It was really nice to survive, hit repentance on the dead bodies around and stay fighting and take out a couple guys when it's "my turn" to dump ultimate. I dont think it would save you with a good ball group like Drac where VD would likely take you out before you could repent your allies, but some of these wannabes..

Mrsinister2

Total dark pretty much completly sucks now. It either won't cast or just grants cc immunity I'm not really sure what we're suppose to do with this now.

Is there a legit reason we can't have a reliable cc?

maxjapank

Mrsinister2 wrote: »

Total dark pretty much completly sucks now. It either won't cast or just grants cc immunity I'm not really sure what we're suppose to do with this now.

Is there a legit reason we can't have a reliable cc?

It’s sad. I haven’t used Total Dark since they caused it to grant cc immunity on cast. It was one of my favorite spells and required strategic play from both myself and enemy players. But now there’s just no benefit to it. In fact, I haven’t seen any Templar using it recently. It just boggles my mind that they would kill something that was in a good place. I’ve lost a lot of faith in the combat team. You guys messed up here.

Minno

technohic wrote: »

How about some positive feedback. Thanks for making repentance reliable. Ran into what looked like a mini ball group a few times and they were running ult dumps on random players around. It was really nice to survive, hit repentance on the dead bodies around and stay fighting and take out a couple guys when it's "my turn" to dump ultimate. I dont think it would save you with a good ball group like Drac where VD would likely take you out before you could repent your allies, but some of these wannabes..

Minor sorc buff changes and offensive ultimate back on for magplars. Really helps to deslot valkyn on a class that kinda requires it.

killmove

I think it would be better to change this passive from

Gain Minor Protection for 1.5 seconds, reducing damage taken by 8%.

to

Gain Minor berserk for 2 seconds, dealing +8% damage.

https://ibb.co/ZLRjBRX

Stibbons

killmove wrote: »

I think it would be better to change this passive from

Gain Minor Protection for 1.5 seconds, reducing damage taken by 8%.

to

Gain Minor berserk for 2 seconds, dealing +8% damage.

https://ibb.co/ZLRjBRX

Yes templars feel naked in pvp. No house there.

killmove

Unlike other class rep, templar class rep needs to master all 3 aspects of the class (DD, heal and tank) because templar is the most versatile class imho.

Minno

killmove wrote: »

Unlike other class rep, templar class rep needs to master all 3 aspects of the class (DD, heal and tank) because templar is the most versatile class imho.

Do they need 6 years of relevant experience and a master degree?

Checkmath

Minno wrote: »

show previous quotes

killmove wrote: »

Unlike other class rep, templar class rep needs to master all 3 aspects of the class (DD, heal and tank) because templar is the most versatile class imho.

Do they need 6 years of relevant experience and a master degree?

I think a doctor title is required.

killmove

A Phd is recommended yes.

However, I think many are spoting this tread to stop or delay good change proposition to templar.
Am I wrong or many Nightblade and Sorcs fanboys are doing their best to keep Templar a trash DD.