[Class Rep] Templar Feedback Thread

tunepunk

My biggest pain point with Magplar is the just movement speed/sprint cost. While adventuring with friends I'm pretty much always behind. Trying to keep up with sprinting and I'm out of stamina in 2 seconds, even with some CP investment into lower sprint cost and more stamina regen I'm pretty much always stamina drained when fight starts, just by trying to keep up.

When solo it's not really any problem because I go at my own pace.

For group PvE I don't really want to gimp my DPS or sustain any more for more movement bonus or lower sprit cost, by using other traits/gear that doesn't benefit my role.

Doing battlegrounds it's pretty much the same issue, epsecially when doing flag games and domination games.

Slotting rapid maneuver doesn't really help because too high cost, and still behind other team members anyway.. Other speed buffs are just way too short to be useful.

I think light armor classes in general could need a bit of a speed boost.

To balance it a bit:
Medium armour, keep it same. Low normal speed but high sprint speed/low sprint cost.
Light armour, higher overall speed, but can't sprint that fast and long. (like it is now)

Suggestion is to add a slight movement speed bonus to 5 piece light armour passives, that increases your base movement speed, similar to Wind Running in Lover CP tree.

If the base movement speed of light armoured classes were a bit higher we wouldn't need to sprint that much to keep up, and drain ourselves completely doing so.

Stibbons

Major sorcery to Templars! Attach it to some of the working skills.

Stibbons

Speed or some kind of really working house defence would be nice. Big house, not just a small hobo hut.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Now that repentance is per temp and not per body and restoring focus is Stam return too, I really have no trouble with temps.

Minno

magplar:
- speed nerfs force magplar back to vamp.
- review of Unstable Core's immovability mechanic (ability wants to be damage but is stuck behind ccimunity; make it a debuff with burst damage and remove the cc imunity so PVE templars can run it.)
- various bugs need fixing (jabs CP scaling, cresant sweep hitbox not hitting at really close range, etc)

Stamplar:
- Speed changes hurt stamplar the most. Current meta revolves around bleeds and movement to avoid damage.
- open up healing passives
- various bug fixes as well.

ccmedaddy

I think Stamplar is my favorite solo PvE class right now. It's insane how tanky mine is now compared to last patch--I used to rely just on Vigor due to lack of bar space, but this patch I get Major Ward/Resolve and Minor Protection as well as decent uptime on Major Protection just from doing my normal DPS rotation. I barely need to Vigor anymore because my health recovery is enough to keep my healthbar topped off.

Tl:dr: I'm super happy with the Stamplar changes this patch. Now we just need a slight boost in DPS.

PoseidonEvil

anyone idea when jabs will be fixed? that's my only pain point

SugaComa

Anyone noticing a weird delay on jabs ...

I used to be able to string two together with no pause ... Now they have a very notice pause between them


If we are going to still have the runes on the floor then we need something for standing out ground ... I see other classes able to stand ground much better than templars who are build to actually do it

Nocturnalan

1. Bring stun back to shards. This helps healers stun targets in PVE. Helps healers help more in PvP while at the same time providing resources and bit of DPS. And we need to encourage support classes.

2. Dark flare is too difficult to cast, during casting if you move even a pixel off target, cast is cancelled. Not sure if this is a bug or intended. Fix sweeps along with this. Radiant seems to glitch out prematurely as well even before the 1.8s is up. Overall Templars got hit the hardest with bugs. Sometimes I decide today is not the day to play Templar.

Checkmath

Nocturnalan wrote: »

1. Bring stun back to shards. This helps healers stun targets in PVE. Helps healers help more in PvP while at the same time providing resources and bit of DPS. And we need to encourage support classes.

2. Dark flare is too difficult to cast, during casting if you move even a pixel off target, cast is cancelled. Not sure if this is a bug or intended. Fix sweeps along with this. Radiant seems to glitch out prematurely as well even before the 1.8s is up. Overall Templars got hit the hardest with bugs. Sometimes I decide today is not the day to play Templar.

You are from console, that is why the fix to dark flare did not arrive there. It will come soon.

ESO_Nightingale

Checkmath wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

I know I'm beating a dead horse and my magplar and stamplar both feel pretty good right now, but some others might know how they stack up vs other classes better. The dead horse I'm here to beat is Templar tanking.

They are feeling solid (ish) now. Much better than they were, thank you.

BUT, still not on the level of other class tanks. They really should get a morph of say - Breath of Life that is a health based self heal. I think this would make people choose between a selfish heal and share heal in not just pve, but pvp. And it would give us a reliable heal in pve. There is almost no way to heal myself unless I blow stam on (a weak tank spec) Vigor or a ton of magicka on clapheal if I throw out a breath when anyone in the group has taken damage - the heal will go to them and the very limited amount of magicka I have will be down the drain.

The problems with Templar tanking don't really become apparent in regular content runs, even vet dungeons, until you get to Hard Modes of the new vet dungeons and hard modes of the newer trials. Especially if you aren't running it with a top teir group where burns are quick and heals are fluid. In truly challenging situations I've used my various tanks for the same team runs and seen a huge gap in overall tankiness between classes and not having any sort of self heal really kills it for templar tanks.

There are several tools tanks of different classes can bring to the table for a group that make the classes stand apart as tanks. So there is no reason every class shouldn't have at least the same basic toolset for the job - some sort of shield (which they do and every other tank class has in some form- even if NBs is arguable) a good way to buff their armor - which every class does. And a solid health based, somewhat bursty self heal. Sorc has the best one by far now that pets can't be killed (expensive though), DK is right behind them. Warden is pretty good, but not as strong if you need a lot of help quickly. NB's is pretty weak, needs to lose the 'over time' component IMO or be changed to be like Wardens where you get most of it up front and the rest in a few more ticks. And Templar has nothing. When you view them as a tank spec, the class people think of when they think healing, has the worst abilities for saving themselves. Selfless I guess, but when you can't save yourself as the tank and die, then everyone else often does anyway.

In the end, I think all the classes are getting closer to getting balanced for the PvE tanking role. Many offer something beneficial that others do not. (Though I do think NB tanks might need some work in this group utility area). But there are basic tools all tanks should have and a decent self heal is one of the big ones IMO and Templars deserve to have one too. Not to mention you guys seem to have spent a long time trying to make one morph of Breath more useful, this would do it.

I see the problem, you got there. but I also see problems to implement it without taking something away,which is very important somewhere else. Both skills breath of life and honor the dead are really strong currently and a lot of healers do not want to give up breath of life, meanwhile all PvP magplars love their honor the dead. In the restoring light skill tree there are around 2 skills, which could Need adjustements: the other Morph of repentance and the clapper (one of the Morph could surely Change and nobody would miss it). There are a lot of ideas around what to do with this skills like adding Major sorcery to the magicka repentance, a stamina heal over time or delayed burst heal from the clapper.

But actually I am not sure, if templar tanks really need a health based heal. I think they rather need some crowd control ability. I know this sounds a bit dumb, but behind a damage shield like sun shield or bone shield a tank should not have to use any selfheal. This is the job of the healers.

Solariken wrote: »

Hey guys I'm wondering when we can start talking about what a disease magplar has become in BG's and discussing practical ways to fix it. Is it still too soon?

I don't want to be dogpiled by forumplars by speaking the truth, but we officially have a pretty serious problem on our hands.

Stacking 4 times the same spec into a bg group is in pretty most cases a plague. You are right, 4 magplars together will be pretty immortal through the immense healing and cleansing, but this is actual the templars strength. I do not think, that this Needs to be looked at, since it only has limited benefits. mgplars also have weaknesses, which will make it hard to compete for them in specific bg modes like capture the relict.

But I do not see the pint, when we compare such a Group to 4 stamina chars like stamdens or stamsorcs, all running shalks, dawbreaker and spin to win.

i think that maybe they could make a morph of clappy hands some sorcery buff or a heal+ aoe immobilisation.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Fixed an issue where spamming cast time or channeled abilities, such as Puncturing Strikes or Dark Flare, would cause a delay to occur between each cast of those abilities.

Need to test but hopeful

Suddwrath

My biggest pain points for templars are:

1) They lack mobility/speed. If ZOS doesn't want them to have speed but rather to have a "house" playstyle, then they need to make adjustments to the templar "house" toolkit.

2) Channeled abilities in general disrupt the flow of combat, so it would be nice if swipes/radiant destruction had their channels removed/reworked.

Last but not least:
3) Blazing Shield. Just. Fix it somehow. Even if it's a rework of the skill. Just make it useful for other playstyles outside of the health-based tanks.

Soris

So far i like the changes they made to templar, thanks for that.

My next biggest wishes for the class is:
1- Give us back the stun on Blazing Spears.
2- Make Blazing Shield great again. (This used to be the best skill in templar arsenal. Give its old glory back!)
3- A class based way of major sorcery buff.

And the rest is bugfixes and some quality of life changes like the range of crescent sweep.

Vajrak

FIX CLAPPY HANDS!
Revert it...make it a Burst +HoT...Make it a new damn effect (heals when you get hit for a set duration)....anything besides what it currently is, because as is it's worthless!

Suggestion:
Healing Ritual
Cost: 7290 (Base)
10M Radius PBAoE
Heal Yourself and Allies for X amount, and 1/10x amount for the duration (10s)
Ritual of Rebirth
Heal Yourself and Allies for X amount, and while active, Y Health and Z Magicka and Stamina over the duration (10s)
-Heal, then gives a HoT and a resource restore for the duration
Retributive Ritual
Heal Yourself and Allies for X amount, and while active, returns Z magic damage to attackers (15s)
-Longer Duration, removes the heal over time value, but returns damage

Radiant Aura -- Remove the increased radius, give us a Major Sorcery on it (30-35s@max rank) for all in the effect. Then Templar (Healer, Tank, and DPS) actually has a reason to slot it besides just the minor recovery on-slot.

NBrookus

Checkmath wrote: »

I would like the necro this thread, since the next meeting will be in the beginning of december.

You know how the game works: Provide your 2 biggest pain points with the class, best with a small explanation.

I am happy to read again, what you are coming up with.

I am not unhappy with magplar at all this patch.

PVP Pain Point #1 - Speed/snares/roots/stuns. In Summerset, you could choose to run speed pots and/or forward momentum and/or swift on a magicka character by making some sacrifices. The speed changes gutted that, leaving magicka with only a lackluster 3 second expedition option OR be a vamp and run mistform OR run Skooma Smuggler; you can't afford what you'd need to sacrifice for stam speed pots or FM anymore. Since stam mobility was also nerfed, spamming roots and snares and is equally effective versus every player, so we lost the herd immunity and spamming roots is the new meta.

Suggestion: Revisit the speed changes to address the original core problems, address root/snare immunity across the board, or give magicka tools to deal with it.

PVP Pain Point #2 - Buffs. For a fight you need at least Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy and an armor buff. Templar has no class access to Major Sorcery and has to rely on Entropy, or a potion, or Rattlecage. Entropy is terrible at 14 seconds, requires a target, and does nothing else really useful. Our armor buff is a big glowy circle on the ground so you can't cast it on the down low. Our Major Prophecy also requires a target. Magplar can't pre-buff for fights or run around a corner and fully buff up. By the time you finish buffing for a fight, you may very well be on your back foot needing to heal and turning fight around from defensive to offensive is a challenge on templar.

Suggestion: Make one morph of Entropy not require a target and have a longer duration.

Bonus point: Blazing Shield. Make this useful, please.

Vajrak

NBrookus wrote: »

PVP Pain Point #1 - Speed/snares/roots/stuns. In Summerset, you could choose to run speed pots and/or forward momentum and/or swift on a magicka character by making some sacrifices. The speed changes gutted that, leaving magicka with only a lackluster 3 second expedition option OR be a vamp and run mistform OR run Skooma Smuggler; you can't afford what you'd need to sacrifice for stam speed pots or FM anymore. Since stam mobility was also nerfed, spamming roots and snares and is equally effective versus every player, so we lost the herd immunity and spamming roots is the new meta.

Suggestion: Revisit the speed changes to address the original core problems, address root/snare immunity across the board, or give magicka tools to deal with it.

PVP Pain Point #2 - Buffs. For a fight you need at least Major Sorcery, Major Prophecy and an armor buff. Templar has no class access to Major Sorcery and has to rely on Entropy, or a potion, or Rattlecage. Entropy is terrible at 14 seconds, requires a target, and does nothing else really useful. Our armor buff is a big glowy circle on the ground so you can't cast it on the down low. Our Major Prophecy also requires a target. Magplar can't pre-buff for fights or run around a corner and fully buff up. By the time you finish buffing for a fight, you may very well be on your back foot needing to heal and turning fight around from defensive to offensive is a challenge on templar.

Suggestion: Make one morph of Entropy not require a target and have a longer duration.

Templar speed I haven't had a huge issue with, and I play a Magplar. Get there and secure the kill, let others breach the gate. In cyro it can be annoying, but unless you are chasing kills, just driving people off is enough - that's just been my experience.

Structured Entropy is pretty nice to have and the buff is by no means an absolute necessity for winning a fight, 1v1 or 1vX. Nothing about Templar is meant to be on the low, so I'm fine with how it functions, and you pop around a corner -- open up with a CC and follow up with entropy -- it gives you that 1second and you already have 2 skills off.

technohic

Just some things I'd like to see

1. Remove minimum range on focused charge and morphs

2. Sun shield and morphs still pretty small even with armor rating

3. Total dark should have a heal at the end equivalent to unstable core damage to make is useful even if broken.

4. Healing rituals when from a cast that nobody uses to a burst heal that's major difference to what we already have in HTD or BOL is more cost AOE. would have liked something different than a burst heal we already have. A hot or health based heal morph at a more reasonable cost to get us the speed buff would have been more interesting.

5. Ritual of retribution could use just a little more to use over extended ritual. Maybe make it root to give tanks a soft AOE CC.

6. Radiant aura needs something to be used over elemental drain. Cost at very least; should be greatly reduced if not eliminated.

Keep in mind, I am just picking out the few active ability flaws. Generally pretty happy where we are at overall.

technohic

technohic wrote: »

3. Total dark should have a heal at the end equivalent to unstable core damage to make is useful even if broken.

Thinking about this; what if they took major defile off dark flare so that it is not like a magicka snipe and moved it to total dark so that total dark still has a use when broken free. Then maybe could make Dark Flare a shorter or no cast time to become a ranged spammable?

Checkmath

technohic wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

3. Total dark should have a heal at the end equivalent to unstable core damage to make is useful even if broken.

Thinking about this; what if they took major defile off dark flare so that it is not like a magicka snipe and moved it to total dark so that total dark still has a use when broken free. Then maybe could make Dark Flare a shorter or no cast time to become a ranged spammable?

Total dark in its current state is veeery effective against everyone not knowing what it does. I have seen people losing even duels, just because they did not know its breakable. adding defile would make it and even more potato smasher skill and would would be probably called overpowered very fast. It does quite some damage when timed right even against experienced players, but adding defile would be too much. But I agree about dark flare needing something new.

Jabbs_Giggity

I switched back to Stamina Templar for Murkmire and here are my biggest two points:

1. Jabs - even with the increase to nearest target damage, it hits like a wet noodle and leaves you vulnerable to being interrupted, CC'd or taking massive damage. Competent players will cast a CC the minute you initiate Jabs or just run through them. Even with the targeting somewhat fixed, Jabs is unreliable. Also, the weird delay is causing this skill to become inefficient. Solution: reduce the channel time or make it block/cancel able or able to animation cancel for more efficient light/heavy attack weaving. Alternate solution, make the final jab act as an execute where the last hit does % more damage to low health targets.

2. Passives - with speed being utterly diluted by ZOS, our defense is compromised. Stamina Templars already have terrible movement, sustain and costly skills - requiring multiple buffs to be casted to reset the fight. To LOS a target and cast a 4k mag cleanse only to see your debuff bar go back up to 10 negative effects immediately is depressing. We need more passives that actively allow us to stay in the fight by means of mitigation for damage, snares/roots.

I choose to run FM over Rally because it's the only way I can rid of roots and snares before i attempt to cleanse, this leaves me with vigor as my only means to heal or mitigate incoming damage. Even with Troll King it is not effective with the amount of executes being applied at 50% health and under.

Sorcs have streak and shields.
NBs have cloak and fear and shade.
Wardens have massive heals, expedition on demand and damage shield abilities.
DKs have major mending, damage shields, roots/immobilize/CC, power lash on spammable and resource return using ULTs.

What exactly do (Stanina) Templars have for means of resetting the balance of a fight??

Jabbs_Giggity

Vajrak wrote: »

eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »

Hello.

I think we've got a huge problem now with the new Evasion. Jabs builds are dead because they might've been used in PvP now that you can turn, the damage increased a bit and so on, but people will run Evasion and that will counter us so hard. And in PvE other builds shine best since melee gameplay is being punished.

On the Magplar, I would really like to see Jabs back. It made my templar feel unique. Right now it feels like a "sorcerer" with blazing spear and purifying light instead of the sorcerer dots...

That's my main concern regarding templar right now. Must agree that on the tanking & stamplar department things look much better than they used to though!

The burning light procs are your friend. Also consider that Jabs is also giving you Minor Protection along with the heal from it, so it still holds a nice unique spot --- yes, lower damage if they are running evasion....but also receiving less damage while self-healing for using it. Is a decently fair trade.

Just want to point out two things...
1. Jabs does not heal you. Only Sweeps does.
2. Burning light proc is only efficient if your jabs/sweeps is actually hitting the target...

Cinbri

1. Sun Fire: tool tip says that it grant major prophecy upon activation, but it misleading. Unlike Biting Jabs that grant Major Savagery upon activation of skill, Sun Fire grant its buff only when dot activated for duration of dot. It allow to track damage portion by customize addon to track buff, but in pvp it makes it bit worse.
When target missed or dodged or reflected your Sun Fire, i.e. dot not proc - you not gain benefit of activating skill:

It should be fixed so even when "dodge", "miss" or reflected status proced for dot part - its buff still triggering.

2. Spear Wall passive: its duration should be equalized with minor mending passive with its 4sec duration. Reason of why Sacred Ground was nerfed to be minor mending is coz its high uptime even 100%, so minor buff should have high uptime.Same as mending you can get high uptime of protection by spamming jabs of even use Shards on other bar to not loose passive but Spear Wall was changed to be independent of aedric skill being slotted allowing to swapping bars without loosing passive but as sec when you use to proc passive by main spammable - Jabs, it leave 1.5sec of its actual usage, thats not enough to swap bar and cast abilities then swap back, having 2.5sec would be more reliable.
So I suggest to change duration of it from 1.5/3 into at least 2/4sec.

3. Solar Barrage: before murkmire its damage was exactly equal to damage of Shards and lower utility, but after Shards got ~60% damage it again became supbar ability that have much less damage than Shards with lower utility than Shards. It just not fair.
So I suggest to rebalance Barrage to reduce amount of tick from 4 to 3 and buff its damage for 40%(return to old damage).
So, if take damage pre-change as default than current Barrage would look like 60%+60%+60%+60%=240% while with 3ticks it would be 100%+100%+100%+0%=300%; 300-240=60% more bursty damage in exchange of higher mana spending and requirement to be activated more often.

4. Eclipse:tested it a lot in group and solo and it really underwhelming now. so now it grant CC immunity for duration of skill to prevent bypassing cc cooldown and cc immunity after skill is purged and expired. That require rebalancing of skill again. Irony is that npc eclipse was getting this treatment and no longer grant cc immunity when purged or expired, even tho it already strong as being old reflect version of eclipse. With this new mechanic enemy have potential 13sec of immunity (6eclipse+7 cc immunity cooldown), while also loosing its key utility of original revamp - in exchange of ignoring break free for saving stamina pool of bubble enemy supposed to hurt himself, but now in ex change of saving his stamina on break free and being hurted enemy also have cc immunity that ignore cc immunity cooldown timer. It means he cant be affected by hard CCs or disabling which made eclipse to work in group utility, for twice that duration of original cc timer. If simply - Eclipse now decreased risk taken and now grant more benefit to enemy.
To fix this I see couple ways:
1. should be done what was done with npc eclipse - no longer grant cc immunity on expire or cleanse. Eclipse is not hard CC, it not disabling enemy, preventing him from attacking, moving, healing. It allow enemy to fully control his character in bubble, so if bubble grant cc immunity, while not punish enemy like other hards ccs - enemy should not have granted cc immunity cooldown passively by doing nothing, he should have chose to either break free to gain immunity and no damage taken, or keep bubble cc immunity on him in exchange of receive damage.
With such change to bubble as it still wont being hard cc so it wont be able to lead to such situation like this:

^^ when hard cc disable you and not grant cc immunity after making so your character stuck in hard CCs..
Also in exchange of 100% loss of group utility and given that it can serve only as anti-offense skill that have no effect when target moving/retreating/recasting buffs (that is what experienced people do while having bubble on them - using other combat features like recasting buffs or reapply dots that wont hurt coz of eclipse mechanic during bubble duration and after it's expire continue to bursting caster) its mechanics of having 0.750sec cooldown or possibility to proc only on 1st tick of dot could reviewed to grant enemy more incenitive to break free bubble and less option to bypass its damage proc, pushing skill more into unique 1vX CC skill.
2. if cc immunity on expire remain - than bubble should become unbreakable again. Enemy will have 13sec of cc immunity but at least half of it he will be under debuff that will punish him for attacking.

5. Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

6. Radiant Aura: have low usability due to minor manasteal nerf while retain its cost and later become totaly useless due to changes of staffs. Given that debuff form Aura cant be stacked to gain more return and still have problem when invisible enemies getting immunity to debuff apply due to band-aid fix to prevent it revealing enemies or can purge it resulting in cost-utility to be too bad to use Aura. Using Drain that provide manasteal and strong major debuff for zero cost and can be spammed as much as you want is far more benefical, it old drawback that it was forcing to use staffs, but this drawback was completely removed when staffs count as 2pieces and its attacks scales of max mana, making staffs bis weapons for magica users. Drain+staff with its "only benefits" in pve and pvp completely remove needs of Aura with it way-to-easy ways to be countered and problem of minor passive buffs attached to skillbar, preventing effective usage from backbar.
So, given that templar lack of major sorcery skill how about change skill to provide major sorcery upon activation of skill while apply buff on yourself that proc minor manasteal debuff on enemy that hit caster,for 5sec. Given how Leeching Vines proved that this mechanic working flawlessly - adopt it for Aura would fix all its problems of force to be ranged ability and do lot of aoe server calculations or that invisibility allow to evade debuff. Also even when debuff wont work skill price will be repaid by its providing of major sorcery.

7. Extended Ritual: it work as templar semi-mitigation skill and providing possibility for mobility but it have problem of cleansing being either too much and it mobility capability being not enough.
In pvp battlefield is full or snares and rotos that can reapply itself, making purging them simply a waste.
Here is one example of such mechanic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^ you simply cant have your cleanse to actually get rid of debuffs coz it will be wasted on cleasning self-reapplayable 3-4 snare/root debuff, forcing templar to loose most of cleanse utility and loose its mobility. Even DK with its new scales can have higher mobility and mitigation than non-vampire templar spamming extended ritual.
However when field not filled with those things getting 5 cleanses can provide too much mitigation by cleansing 5 dots esp for vampire templar who can bypass mobility problem by Mist while retain 5 cleanses, and thus if templar ever get proper damage preemptive ability(lack of which is main problem of templar class) - its tankability will become too much.
So, I suggest to trade 1-2 cleanses for 1-2sec of roots/snare immunity. However with such change granting immunity should be calculating prior to debuff cleanse to not being wasted in vain. With such change when you have like 13 different debuffs on you and 3-4 of them is self-reapplayale snares - cast of ritual will allow to timely get rid of them while debuffs cleanse will cleanse actual debuffs but in less amount. Simply less tankability for higher mobility exchange.

Minno

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Sun Fire: tool tip says that it grant major prophecy upon activation, but it misleading. Unlike Biting Jabs that grant Major Savagery upon activation of skill, Sun Fire grant its buff only when dot activated for duration of dot. It allow to track damage portion by customize addon to track buff, but in pvp it makes it bit worse.
When target missed or dodged or reflected your Sun Fire, i.e. dot not proc - you not gain benefit of activating skill:

It should be fixed so even when "dodge", "miss" or reflected status proced for dot part - its buff still triggering.

2. Spear Wall passive: its duration should be equalized with minor mending passive with its 4sec duration. Reason of why Sacred Ground was nerfed to be minor mending is coz its high uptime even 100%, so minor buff should have high uptime.Same as mending you can get high uptime of protection by spamming jabs of even use Shards on other bar to not loose passive but Spear Wall was changed to be independent of aedric skill being slotted allowing to swapping bars without loosing passive but as sec when you use to proc passive by main spammable - Jabs, it leave 1.5sec of its actual usage, thats not enough to swap bar and cast abilities then swap back, having 2.5sec would be more reliable.
So I suggest to change duration of it from 1.5/3 into at least 2/4sec.

3. Solar Barrage: before murkmire its damage was exactly equal to damage of Shards and lower utility, but after Shards got ~60% damage it again became supbar ability that have much less damage than Shards with lower utility than Shards. It just not fair.
So I suggest to rebalance Barrage to reduce amount of tick from 4 to 3 and buff its damage for 40%(return to old damage).
So, if take damage pre-change as default than current Barrage would look like 60%+60%+60%+60%=240% while with 3ticks it would be 100%+100%+100%+0%=300%; 300-240=60% more bursty damage in exchange of higher mana spending and requirement to be activated more often.

4. Eclipse:tested it a lot in group and solo and it really underwhelming now. so now it grant CC immunity for duration of skill to prevent bypassing cc cooldown and cc immunity after skill is purged and expired. That require rebalancing of skill again. Irony is that npc eclipse was getting this treatment and no longer grant cc immunity when purged or expired, even tho it already strong as being old reflect version of eclipse. With this new mechanic enemy have potential 13sec of immunity (6eclipse+7 cc immunity cooldown), while also loosing its key utility of original revamp - in exchange of ignoring break free for saving stamina pool of bubble enemy supposed to hurt himself, but now in ex change of saving his stamina on break free and being hurted enemy also have cc immunity that ignore cc immunity cooldown timer. It means he cant be affected by hard CCs or disabling which made eclipse to work in group utility, for twice that duration of original cc timer. If simply - Eclipse now decreased risk taken and now grant more benefit to enemy.
To fix this I see couple ways:
1. should be done what was done with npc eclipse - no longer grant cc immunity on expire or cleanse. Eclipse is not hard CC, it not disabling enemy, preventing him from attacking, moving, healing. It allow enemy to fully control his character in bubble, so if bubble grant cc immunity, while not punish enemy like other hards ccs - enemy should not have granted cc immunity cooldown passively by doing nothing, he should have chose to either break free to gain immunity and no damage taken, or keep bubble cc immunity on him in exchange of receive damage.
With such change to bubble as it still wont being hard cc so it wont be able to lead to such situation like this:

^^ when hard cc disable you and not grant cc immunity after making so your character stuck in hard CCs..
Also in exchange of 100% loss of group utility and given that it can serve only as anti-offense skill that have no effect when target moving/retreating/recasting buffs (that is what experienced people do while having bubble on them - using other combat features like recasting buffs or reapply dots that wont hurt coz of eclipse mechanic during bubble duration and after it's expire continue to bursting caster) its mechanics of having 0.750sec cooldown or possibility to proc only on 1st tick of dot could reviewed to grant enemy more incenitive to break free bubble and less option to bypass its damage proc, pushing skill more into unique 1vX CC skill.
2. if cc immunity on expire remain - than bubble should become unbreakable again. Enemy will have 13sec of cc immunity but at least half of it he will be under debuff that will punish him for attacking.

5. Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

6. Radiant Aura: have low usability due to minor manasteal nerf while retain its cost and later become totaly useless due to changes of staffs. Given that debuff form Aura cant be stacked to gain more return and still have problem when invisible enemies getting immunity to debuff apply due to band-aid fix to prevent it revealing enemies or can purge it resulting in cost-utility to be too bad to use Aura. Using Drain that provide manasteal and strong major debuff for zero cost and can be spammed as much as you want is far more benefical, it old drawback that it was forcing to use staffs, but this drawback was completely removed when staffs count as 2pieces and its attacks scales of max mana, making staffs bis weapons for magica users. Drain+staff with its "only benefits" in pve and pvp completely remove needs of Aura with it way-to-easy ways to be countered and problem of minor passive buffs attached to skillbar, preventing effective usage from backbar.
So, given that templar lack of major sorcery skill how about change skill to provide major sorcery upon activation of skill while apply buff on yourself that proc minor manasteal debuff on enemy that hit caster,for 5sec. Given how Leeching Vines proved that this mechanic working flawlessly - adopt it for Aura would fix all its problems of force to be ranged ability and do lot of aoe server calculations or that invisibility allow to evade debuff. Also even when debuff wont work skill price will be repaid by its providing of major sorcery.

7. Extended Ritual: it work as templar semi-mitigation skill and providing possibility for mobility but it have problem of cleansing being either too much and it mobility capability being not enough.
In pvp battlefield is full or snares and rotos that can reapply itself, making purging them simply a waste.
Here is one example of such mechanic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^ you simply cant have your cleanse to actually get rid of debuffs coz it will be wasted on cleasning self-reapplayable 3-4 snare/root debuff, forcing templar to loose most of cleanse utility and loose its mobility. Even DK with its new scales can have higher mobility and mitigation than non-vampire templar spamming extended ritual.
However when field not filled with those things getting 5 cleanses can provide too much mitigation by cleansing 5 dots esp for vampire templar who can bypass mobility problem by Mist while retain 5 cleanses, and thus if templar ever get proper damage preemptive ability(lack of which is main problem of templar class) - its tankability will become too much.
So, I suggest to trade 1-2 cleanses for 1-2sec of roots/snare immunity. However with such change granting immunity should be calculating prior to debuff cleanse to not being wasted in vain. With such change when you have like 13 different debuffs on you and 3-4 of them is self-reapplayale snares - cast of ritual will allow to timely get rid of them while debuffs cleanse will cleanse actual debuffs but in less amount. Simply less tankability for higher mobility exchange.

And that is why I don't use reflective light anymore.

Great work! I agree with everything here. They havea chance to really fix eclipse here.

Vapirko

Can javalin travel a bit faster? It’s so easily dodged.

Sustain could still use a bit of work.

Solariken

Vapirko wrote: »

Can javalin travel a bit faster? It’s so easily dodged.

Sustain could still use a bit of work.

Oh you mean the fastest moving projectile in the game? No thanks, they already neutered the animation when they sped it up the last three or four times.

Stibbons

Fix eclipse!

BNOC

Minno wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

1. Sun Fire: tool tip says that it grant major prophecy upon activation, but it misleading. Unlike Biting Jabs that grant Major Savagery upon activation of skill, Sun Fire grant its buff only when dot activated for duration of dot. It allow to track damage portion by customize addon to track buff, but in pvp it makes it bit worse.
When target missed or dodged or reflected your Sun Fire, i.e. dot not proc - you not gain benefit of activating skill:

It should be fixed so even when "dodge", "miss" or reflected status proced for dot part - its buff still triggering.

2. Spear Wall passive: its duration should be equalized with minor mending passive with its 4sec duration. Reason of why Sacred Ground was nerfed to be minor mending is coz its high uptime even 100%, so minor buff should have high uptime.Same as mending you can get high uptime of protection by spamming jabs of even use Shards on other bar to not loose passive but Spear Wall was changed to be independent of aedric skill being slotted allowing to swapping bars without loosing passive but as sec when you use to proc passive by main spammable - Jabs, it leave 1.5sec of its actual usage, thats not enough to swap bar and cast abilities then swap back, having 2.5sec would be more reliable.
So I suggest to change duration of it from 1.5/3 into at least 2/4sec.

3. Solar Barrage: before murkmire its damage was exactly equal to damage of Shards and lower utility, but after Shards got ~60% damage it again became supbar ability that have much less damage than Shards with lower utility than Shards. It just not fair.
So I suggest to rebalance Barrage to reduce amount of tick from 4 to 3 and buff its damage for 40%(return to old damage).
So, if take damage pre-change as default than current Barrage would look like 60%+60%+60%+60%=240% while with 3ticks it would be 100%+100%+100%+0%=300%; 300-240=60% more bursty damage in exchange of higher mana spending and requirement to be activated more often.

4. Eclipse:tested it a lot in group and solo and it really underwhelming now. so now it grant CC immunity for duration of skill to prevent bypassing cc cooldown and cc immunity after skill is purged and expired. That require rebalancing of skill again. Irony is that npc eclipse was getting this treatment and no longer grant cc immunity when purged or expired, even tho it already strong as being old reflect version of eclipse. With this new mechanic enemy have potential 13sec of immunity (6eclipse+7 cc immunity cooldown), while also loosing its key utility of original revamp - in exchange of ignoring break free for saving stamina pool of bubble enemy supposed to hurt himself, but now in ex change of saving his stamina on break free and being hurted enemy also have cc immunity that ignore cc immunity cooldown timer. It means he cant be affected by hard CCs or disabling which made eclipse to work in group utility, for twice that duration of original cc timer. If simply - Eclipse now decreased risk taken and now grant more benefit to enemy.
To fix this I see couple ways:
1. should be done what was done with npc eclipse - no longer grant cc immunity on expire or cleanse. Eclipse is not hard CC, it not disabling enemy, preventing him from attacking, moving, healing. It allow enemy to fully control his character in bubble, so if bubble grant cc immunity, while not punish enemy like other hards ccs - enemy should not have granted cc immunity cooldown passively by doing nothing, he should have chose to either break free to gain immunity and no damage taken, or keep bubble cc immunity on him in exchange of receive damage.
With such change to bubble as it still wont being hard cc so it wont be able to lead to such situation like this:

^^ when hard cc disable you and not grant cc immunity after making so your character stuck in hard CCs..
Also in exchange of 100% loss of group utility and given that it can serve only as anti-offense skill that have no effect when target moving/retreating/recasting buffs (that is what experienced people do while having bubble on them - using other combat features like recasting buffs or reapply dots that wont hurt coz of eclipse mechanic during bubble duration and after it's expire continue to bursting caster) its mechanics of having 0.750sec cooldown or possibility to proc only on 1st tick of dot could reviewed to grant enemy more incenitive to break free bubble and less option to bypass its damage proc, pushing skill more into unique 1vX CC skill.
2. if cc immunity on expire remain - than bubble should become unbreakable again. Enemy will have 13sec of cc immunity but at least half of it he will be under debuff that will punish him for attacking.

5. Unstable Core: this morph completely overshadowed by total Dark for several reasons.
Lets take as example couple other classes skills:
Scales: one morph provide snare immunity-defensive morph, other provde higher damage reflect-offensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature of skill - to reflect projectiles.
Petrify: one morph root enemy-offensive morph, other provide heal-defensive morph. Yet both morphs retain core feature - to hard cc enemy.
Crystallized Shield: one provide reflect damage-offensive morph, other is major buff. Yet it retain its ability to absorb damage and restore resources.
Rune Prison: hard cc enemy either by your choice or as defense, yet hard cc in any choice.
And now we have Total Dark supposed to be defensive morph and Unstable Core is offensive, but for this skill it not work this way because core feature of this skill was completely changed - while skill is CC it no longer being a reflect, i.e. damage prevent mechanic, nor have any aspect that make it as hard CC - i.e. disabling enemy to prevent him attacking or moving or healing.As result Total Dark retain its core defensive role - it apply bubble and heal caster back providing tanking capability(however don't forget about its 0.750sec cooldown that decrease this utility in everchanging meta), yet Core cant serve as offensive role because core feature of skill was changed to no longer be hard cc variable that should defend caster from receiving damage per se while granting offensive aoe explosion.
There is no point in Core with it current core skill functionality, it should be completely changed, either core utility or morph functionality. Every hard cc no matter offensive or defensive serve as some sort of defense that timely interrupting enemy from his dps rotations, but that not working for Eclipse anymore, unless part of Core feature will be buff proc damage also so it will have lot of returned damage in exchange of lost survivability.

6. Radiant Aura: have low usability due to minor manasteal nerf while retain its cost and later become totaly useless due to changes of staffs. Given that debuff form Aura cant be stacked to gain more return and still have problem when invisible enemies getting immunity to debuff apply due to band-aid fix to prevent it revealing enemies or can purge it resulting in cost-utility to be too bad to use Aura. Using Drain that provide manasteal and strong major debuff for zero cost and can be spammed as much as you want is far more benefical, it old drawback that it was forcing to use staffs, but this drawback was completely removed when staffs count as 2pieces and its attacks scales of max mana, making staffs bis weapons for magica users. Drain+staff with its "only benefits" in pve and pvp completely remove needs of Aura with it way-to-easy ways to be countered and problem of minor passive buffs attached to skillbar, preventing effective usage from backbar.
So, given that templar lack of major sorcery skill how about change skill to provide major sorcery upon activation of skill while apply buff on yourself that proc minor manasteal debuff on enemy that hit caster,for 5sec. Given how Leeching Vines proved that this mechanic working flawlessly - adopt it for Aura would fix all its problems of force to be ranged ability and do lot of aoe server calculations or that invisibility allow to evade debuff. Also even when debuff wont work skill price will be repaid by its providing of major sorcery.

7. Extended Ritual: it work as templar semi-mitigation skill and providing possibility for mobility but it have problem of cleansing being either too much and it mobility capability being not enough.
In pvp battlefield is full or snares and rotos that can reapply itself, making purging them simply a waste.
Here is one example of such mechanic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HohVORgFhWw

^^ you simply cant have your cleanse to actually get rid of debuffs coz it will be wasted on cleasning self-reapplayable 3-4 snare/root debuff, forcing templar to loose most of cleanse utility and loose its mobility. Even DK with its new scales can have higher mobility and mitigation than non-vampire templar spamming extended ritual.
However when field not filled with those things getting 5 cleanses can provide too much mitigation by cleansing 5 dots esp for vampire templar who can bypass mobility problem by Mist while retain 5 cleanses, and thus if templar ever get proper damage preemptive ability(lack of which is main problem of templar class) - its tankability will become too much.
So, I suggest to trade 1-2 cleanses for 1-2sec of roots/snare immunity. However with such change granting immunity should be calculating prior to debuff cleanse to not being wasted in vain. With such change when you have like 13 different debuffs on you and 3-4 of them is self-reapplayale snares - cast of ritual will allow to timely get rid of them while debuffs cleanse will cleanse actual debuffs but in less amount. Simply less tankability for higher mobility exchange.

And that is why I don't use reflective light anymore.

Great work! I agree with everything here. They havea chance to really fix eclipse here.

Everything excluding the Extended Ritual suggestion makes sense.

Put the snare immunity on Ritual of Retribution and have away with the damage component.
Don't remove the 5 cleanse or 'tankier' option as you called it.

mague

Healing Ritual = 7290 Magicka
Vigor = 3511 Stamina

This is so wrong Healing Ritual should be like 3800 or maybe 4000 Magicka.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

mague wrote: »

Healing Ritual = 7290 Magicka
Vigor = 3511 Stamina

This is so wrong Healing Ritual should be like 3800 or maybe 4000 Magicka.

HR can take 6 people from 3% health to 100% in one cast, in one second, vigor takes at least 3 in pve and will never fill your bar in 5 seconds in pvp. they are not comparable.