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[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zardayne wrote: »
    I still wish they would look at swarm to help increase magden damage. I hardly ever hear anyone mention it yet it should be an iconic warden skill for magdens. It's also one of the few to only skills that would increase our damage yet leave stamden untouched. They increased the cost on a double casted or delayed skill and left it there to die on the backbar if that. I feel a lot more Magden should be voicing our displeasure on how this ability has been treated too. It has a lot of potential to be a main bar skill if they'd just quit neglecting it.

    @Zardayne Piercing Cold, thats how to buff MagDen, not Swarm

    Give Infection, Hurrincane's treatment, where the damage increases for the duration its applied (total damage of 2 cast equaling the current damage of 1 normal, 1 +50% cast, or there abouts)
    Give Growing a scaling spread Cast affects one enemy, at 2 seconds another, 4sec a 3rd, 6sec a 4th, 8sec a 5th, 10sec a 6th Each Spread continues the current 10second DoT
    Edited by Maura_Neysa on October 11, 2018 5:25PM
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Zardayne
    Zardayne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zardayne wrote: »
    I still wish they would look at swarm to help increase magden damage. I hardly ever hear anyone mention it yet it should be an iconic warden skill for magdens. It's also one of the few to only skills that would increase our damage yet leave stamden untouched. They increased the cost on a double casted or delayed skill and left it there to die on the backbar if that. I feel a lot more Magden should be voicing our displeasure on how this ability has been treated too. It has a lot of potential to be a main bar skill if they'd just quit neglecting it.

    @Zardayne Piercing Cold, thats how to buff MagDen, not Swarm

    Give Infection, Hurrincane's treatment, where the damage increases for the duration its applied (total damage of 2 cast equaling the current damage of 1 normal, 1 +50% cast, or there abouts)
    Give Growing a scaling spread Cast affects one enemy, at 2 seconds another, 4sec a 3rd, 6sec a 4th, 8sec a 5th, 10sec a 6th Each Spread continues the current 10second DoT

    I think they are both viable ways to do it. Obviously you favor the ice line and I favor the animal line. If you tacked on a a damage ramping addition like poison injection to swarm without a double cast it would help immensely. I think your idea for growing is definitely better than what we have now.
  • MooseKnuckles88
    MooseKnuckles88
    ✭✭✭
    They should add in another 1% damage increase to piercing cold passive and add in a little more damage to winters revenge. Hopefully they'll fix artic blast, but not likely anything will change at this point.
  • DanteYoda
    DanteYoda
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Zardayne wrote: »
    Zardayne wrote: »
    I still wish they would look at swarm to help increase magden damage. I hardly ever hear anyone mention it yet it should be an iconic warden skill for magdens. It's also one of the few to only skills that would increase our damage yet leave stamden untouched. They increased the cost on a double casted or delayed skill and left it there to die on the backbar if that. I feel a lot more Magden should be voicing our displeasure on how this ability has been treated too. It has a lot of potential to be a main bar skill if they'd just quit neglecting it.

    @Zardayne Piercing Cold, thats how to buff MagDen, not Swarm

    Give Infection, Hurrincane's treatment, where the damage increases for the duration its applied (total damage of 2 cast equaling the current damage of 1 normal, 1 +50% cast, or there abouts)
    Give Growing a scaling spread Cast affects one enemy, at 2 seconds another, 4sec a 3rd, 6sec a 4th, 8sec a 5th, 10sec a 6th Each Spread continues the current 10second DoT

    I think they are both viable ways to do it. Obviously you favor the ice line and I favor the animal line. If you tacked on a a damage ramping addition like poison injection to swarm without a double cast it would help immensely. I think your idea for growing is definitely better than what we have now.

    Unfortunately poisons are quite useless in ESO..
  • Carl_Bar
    Carl_Bar

    - Ulti Gen, its a skill I cast which procs the ulti gen. Yes there are other skills, but none are exactly 8 sec long so anything that helps proc that as close to 8 seconds a possible is good
    - I can spam cast it as a heal, not very effective, but it is free.
    - Work to keep it up...... Do you have any idea of the basics of any MMO?!?!? Yes you get long duration buffs like food. You also get short duration buffs like Netch which do need work to keep up. Not just one alone, but the balance of several. Fortress, Netch, Lotus, Bird of Prey. Then add in the work of fitting your damage skills around them. Its already sad enough that many MMOs let you write macros that let you recast all your buffs with one button. I don't think ESO is one, it for sure isn't on Console. If thats the kind of game play you find fun, maybe thats a better fit.
    I for one am not someone in favor of potato friendly, nor even in favor of illuminating Animation Canceling, which is a much higher Player Skill barrier than Buff Management is.

    Again if your not constantly using skills as any class your doing somthing wrong. Ergo Netch has zero advantage over any other skill for this purpose.

    I didn't realise recasting it while it was up counted as unsummoning, and given it's free to do from a healing balance PoV it absolutely should not do that.

    Financially, if your having issues fitting a long duration buff, (and yes it's a long duration buff, just about anything over 15 seconds counts as one in practical terms, food is a completely seperate category), into your rotation i suggest looking behind your keyboard for the issue. You've got countless other effects to worry about procing, almost all of which have a vastly shorter duration. That means much of your build is dictated by those effects and Netch gets squeezed in wherever there's time because with a 24 second duration you've got a serious amount of time in which to find one single skill window to drop it in. Obviously you don't want to be spamming it literally every few seconds, but there's no need to time it's re-up to the very last second. That gives you a fairly decent viable window in which to squeeze it in. And the larger the window you have to do somthing in the easier it is. Netch is trivial for me atm, i admit though my specific setup is probably playing a part in that. But i still can't foresee netch ever getting hard.
    Edited by Carl_Bar on October 12, 2018 1:01AM
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
    ✭✭✭✭
    Carl_Bar wrote: »

    - Ulti Gen, its a skill I cast which procs the ulti gen. Yes there are other skills, but none are exactly 8 sec long so anything that helps proc that as close to 8 seconds a possible is good
    - I can spam cast it as a heal, not very effective, but it is free.
    - Work to keep it up...... Do you have any idea of the basics of any MMO?!?!? Yes you get long duration buffs like food. You also get short duration buffs like Netch which do need work to keep up. Not just one alone, but the balance of several. Fortress, Netch, Lotus, Bird of Prey. Then add in the work of fitting your damage skills around them. Its already sad enough that many MMOs let you write macros that let you recast all your buffs with one button. I don't think ESO is one, it for sure isn't on Console. If thats the kind of game play you find fun, maybe thats a better fit.
    I for one am not someone in favor of potato friendly, nor even in favor of illuminating Animation Canceling, which is a much higher Player Skill barrier than Buff Management is.

    Again if your not constantly using skills as any class your doing somthing wrong. Ergo Netch has zero advantage over any other skill for this purpose.

    I didn't realise recasting it while it was up counted as unsummoning, and given it's free to do from a healing balance PoV it absolutely should not do that.

    Financially, if your having issues fitting a long duration buff, (and yes it's a long duration buff, just about anything over 15 seconds counts as one in practical terms, food is a completely seperate category), into your rotation i suggest looking behind your keyboard for the issue. You've got countless other effects to worry about procing, almost all of which have a vastly shorter duration. That means much of your build is dictated by those effects and Netch gets squeezed in wherever there's time because with a 24 second duration you've got a serious amount of time in which to find one single skill window to drop it in. Obviously you don't want to be spamming it literally every few seconds, but there's no need to time it's re-up to the very last second. That gives you a fairly decent viable window in which to squeeze it in. And the larger the window you have to do somthing in the easier it is. Netch is trivial for me atm, i admit though my specific setup is probably playing a part in that. But i still can't foresee netch ever getting hard.

    Compared to all the other class forms of Sorcery and Brutality its the same. if netch becomes a constant effect then why not all the others as well like Power Surge and Molten Weapons. And compare it to all the other class sustain skills like Siphoning and Rune focus, they all are buffs that need to be maintained. if you dont maintain it you dont get the buffs.

    And why should it not heal? its a summon and it only heals for 1260.
    PS4 NA 1000+ CP
    Imperial Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Warden


    Have played all classes.
  • Zardayne
    Zardayne
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    Zardayne wrote: »
    Zardayne wrote: »
    I still wish they would look at swarm to help increase magden damage. I hardly ever hear anyone mention it yet it should be an iconic warden skill for magdens. It's also one of the few to only skills that would increase our damage yet leave stamden untouched. They increased the cost on a double casted or delayed skill and left it there to die on the backbar if that. I feel a lot more Magden should be voicing our displeasure on how this ability has been treated too. It has a lot of potential to be a main bar skill if they'd just quit neglecting it.

    @Zardayne Piercing Cold, thats how to buff MagDen, not Swarm

    Give Infection, Hurrincane's treatment, where the damage increases for the duration its applied (total damage of 2 cast equaling the current damage of 1 normal, 1 +50% cast, or there abouts)
    Give Growing a scaling spread Cast affects one enemy, at 2 seconds another, 4sec a 3rd, 6sec a 4th, 8sec a 5th, 10sec a 6th Each Spread continues the current 10second DoT

    I think they are both viable ways to do it. Obviously you favor the ice line and I favor the animal line. If you tacked on a a damage ramping addition like poison injection to swarm without a double cast it would help immensely. I think your idea for growing is definitely better than what we have now.

    Unfortunately poisons are quite useless in ESO..

    Well if it was on swarm it could stay magic damage. I just think a nasty DOT on that ability sure would go a long way to helping our dps without cranking up stamdens.
  • Carl_Bar
    Carl_Bar
    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    Carl_Bar wrote: »

    - Ulti Gen, its a skill I cast which procs the ulti gen. Yes there are other skills, but none are exactly 8 sec long so anything that helps proc that as close to 8 seconds a possible is good
    - I can spam cast it as a heal, not very effective, but it is free.
    - Work to keep it up...... Do you have any idea of the basics of any MMO?!?!? Yes you get long duration buffs like food. You also get short duration buffs like Netch which do need work to keep up. Not just one alone, but the balance of several. Fortress, Netch, Lotus, Bird of Prey. Then add in the work of fitting your damage skills around them. Its already sad enough that many MMOs let you write macros that let you recast all your buffs with one button. I don't think ESO is one, it for sure isn't on Console. If thats the kind of game play you find fun, maybe thats a better fit.
    I for one am not someone in favor of potato friendly, nor even in favor of illuminating Animation Canceling, which is a much higher Player Skill barrier than Buff Management is.

    Again if your not constantly using skills as any class your doing somthing wrong. Ergo Netch has zero advantage over any other skill for this purpose.

    I didn't realise recasting it while it was up counted as unsummoning, and given it's free to do from a healing balance PoV it absolutely should not do that.

    Financially, if your having issues fitting a long duration buff, (and yes it's a long duration buff, just about anything over 15 seconds counts as one in practical terms, food is a completely seperate category), into your rotation i suggest looking behind your keyboard for the issue. You've got countless other effects to worry about procing, almost all of which have a vastly shorter duration. That means much of your build is dictated by those effects and Netch gets squeezed in wherever there's time because with a 24 second duration you've got a serious amount of time in which to find one single skill window to drop it in. Obviously you don't want to be spamming it literally every few seconds, but there's no need to time it's re-up to the very last second. That gives you a fairly decent viable window in which to squeeze it in. And the larger the window you have to do somthing in the easier it is. Netch is trivial for me atm, i admit though my specific setup is probably playing a part in that. But i still can't foresee netch ever getting hard.

    Compared to all the other class forms of Sorcery and Brutality its the same. if netch becomes a constant effect then why not all the others as well like Power Surge and Molten Weapons. And compare it to all the other class sustain skills like Siphoning and Rune focus, they all are buffs that need to be maintained. if you dont maintain it you dont get the buffs.

    And why should it not heal? its a summon and it only heals for 1260.

    I'd have to check them all (some of my alts are basically writ alts for now), but i believe all of those have an actual cost to use attached, so keeping them up has mag/stam sustain factors which, in theory at least create limitations to it's use with other skill combos, neth isn't doing any of that, (it actually buffs your sustain).

    What it boils down to from my PoV is that netch is a skill that provides a benefit at zero cost, (beyond bar space, buts thats true of any skill), and is long lasting enough that maintenance is not difficult. Thats the definition for me of somthing thats makework. it;s there as somthing you have to mess with just to give you somthing to do, it dosen;t have any gameplay relevance beyond making you do somthing. it's the skill equivalent of grind for the sake of grind.
  • Chirru
    Chirru
    ✭✭✭✭
    mb10 wrote: »
    1) The arctic wind skill unnecessarily being a weak heal. We have Green Balance for all the healing we need and Frost Magic has never been associated with healing in The Elder Scrolls.

    It should be like the Ic Storm skill in Skyrim especially as this is already in the game as some NPCs use this skill.

    Skyrim describe the skill as: "Create a freezing whirlwind that does 40/s frost damage to health and stamina"

    Video of the skill:


    I understand the stamina damage might be too OP in ESO but the skill itself would be a good DPS option for Wardens.


    2) No stun. A whole class with no stun is quite ridiculous.

    Arctic Wind...Do not agree that it is not a Valid healing skill. I play Shield and Sword, and Arctic wind heals just fine and does damage at the same time. I tank and let DoT's and Pet Bear do all the Damage. True, this is not an sound play-stile for PvP...but great in PvE. I find the Green Balance Skills almost useless. To much cost and too slow.

    Please keep the Warden as is now. A valid PvE Class. Not every class needs to be doctored for PvP.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    Zardayne wrote: »
    Zardayne wrote: »
    I still wish they would look at swarm to help increase magden damage. I hardly ever hear anyone mention it yet it should be an iconic warden skill for magdens. It's also one of the few to only skills that would increase our damage yet leave stamden untouched. They increased the cost on a double casted or delayed skill and left it there to die on the backbar if that. I feel a lot more Magden should be voicing our displeasure on how this ability has been treated too. It has a lot of potential to be a main bar skill if they'd just quit neglecting it.

    @Zardayne Piercing Cold, thats how to buff MagDen, not Swarm

    Give Infection, Hurrincane's treatment, where the damage increases for the duration its applied (total damage of 2 cast equaling the current damage of 1 normal, 1 +50% cast, or there abouts)
    Give Growing a scaling spread Cast affects one enemy, at 2 seconds another, 4sec a 3rd, 6sec a 4th, 8sec a 5th, 10sec a 6th Each Spread continues the current 10second DoT

    I think they are both viable ways to do it. Obviously you favor the ice line and I favor the animal line. If you tacked on a a damage ramping addition like poison injection to swarm without a double cast it would help immensely. I think your idea for growing is definitely better than what we have now.

    Unfortunately poisons are quite useless in ESO..

    :scream: What game are you playing? Poison are most definitely useful, and actually quite powerful. Its the stamina version of Burning. Now on a MagDen it wouldn't really fit, but then I was only talking about the Skill Poison Injection which is a DoT Execute. That effect on Fletcher Infection would make it a much better skill, and give MagDen access to one of the things its sorely missing in PvP
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Carl_Bar wrote: »

    - Ulti Gen, its a skill I cast which procs the ulti gen. Yes there are other skills, but none are exactly 8 sec long so anything that helps proc that as close to 8 seconds a possible is good
    - I can spam cast it as a heal, not very effective, but it is free.
    - Work to keep it up...... Do you have any idea of the basics of any MMO?!?!? Yes you get long duration buffs like food. You also get short duration buffs like Netch which do need work to keep up. Not just one alone, but the balance of several. Fortress, Netch, Lotus, Bird of Prey. Then add in the work of fitting your damage skills around them. Its already sad enough that many MMOs let you write macros that let you recast all your buffs with one button. I don't think ESO is one, it for sure isn't on Console. If thats the kind of game play you find fun, maybe thats a better fit.
    I for one am not someone in favor of potato friendly, nor even in favor of illuminating Animation Canceling, which is a much higher Player Skill barrier than Buff Management is.

    Again if your not constantly using skills as any class your doing something wrong. Ergo Netch has zero advantage over any other skill for this purpose.

    I didn't realize recasting it while it was up counted as unsummoning, and given it's free to do from a healing balance PoV it absolutely should not do that.

    Financially, if your having issues fitting a long duration buff, (and yes it's a long duration buff, just about anything over 15 seconds counts as one in practical terms, food is a completely seperate category), into your rotation i suggest looking behind your keyboard for the issue. You've got countless other effects to worry about procing, almost all of which have a vastly shorter duration. That means much of your build is dictated by those effects and Netch gets squeezed in wherever there's time because with a 24 second duration you've got a serious amount of time in which to find one single skill window to drop it in. Obviously you don't want to be spamming it literally every few seconds, but there's no need to time it's re-up to the very last second. That gives you a fairly decent viable window in which to squeeze it in. And the larger the window you have to do something in the easier it is. Netch is trivial for me atm, i admit though my specific setup is probably playing a part in that. But i still can't foresee netch ever getting hard.

    Jebus.....
    - I dont cast Netch every 8 Seconds, I cast it ever other rotation. Shalks or Birbs are the only real options there though, and both of those have been listed in the "DPS lose" category pre Murkmire, so quite literally your only option was the Netch. Personally I do run Sub, but its 3sec, 3sec, 3sec, 5sec in the rotation, and when I cast Netch its in that 5 sec gap

    So you are arguing about how the Warden "should work" when you dont even know how it does work? :scream: It's a 1k-ish heal, so what if it is a free heal, spam casting it isn't very effective.

    I don't have any issue fitting it my rotation, but it sounds like you do with wanting it permanently summoned. Its not like Molten Weapons (30sec), Grim Focus (20sec) Siphoning Strikes (20sec), Surge (33sec) Rune Focus (17sec), Frost Cloak (24sec), Lotus (20sec) are permanent either, and everyone of them has a much bigger cost then just 1 GCD
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • _Ahala_
    _Ahala_
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    It would be really nice of zos to slow down screaming cliff racer’s projectile travel time back to a 2s travel time so that it could be use in fissure combos again... this would hardly impact PvE balance as the cast would still yield the same damage per cast and thus the same dps... with the change to the dodge roll projectile immunity frames and the removal of passive dodge chance the travel time would be far less annoying as it was in the past and giving Magden back its combo capabilities would be good for this games PvP balance... this would really help bring back some of the internal synergy that the animal companion skills had back when Magden was released
  • DanteYoda
    DanteYoda
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    On a plus, with all this warden backlash at least its good to know a lot more were playing magden than i first thought.. Sadly not sure its state after Nov 2018..
  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
    ✭✭✭✭
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    On a plus, with all this warden backlash at least its good to know a lot more were playing magden than i first thought.. Sadly not sure its state after Nov 2018..

    I see a lot of wardens in overland and pvp. just not in trials or many vet dungeons.
    PS4 NA 1000+ CP
    Imperial Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Warden


    Have played all classes.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    On a plus, with all this warden backlash at least its good to know a lot more were playing magden than i first thought.. Sadly not sure its state after Nov 2018..

    Not enough to get ZoS to un$uck itself :unamused:
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • MooseKnuckles88
    MooseKnuckles88
    ✭✭✭
    So much for trying to get any answers from the devs about anything. Give those guys a bonus they've earned it.
  • DanteYoda
    DanteYoda
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    I've given up i login for my daily then go play other mmos.
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    DanteYoda wrote: »
    I've given up i login for my daily then go play other mmos.

    More than I can manage, in the last month I've logged in once, and all I did was about 2 hours of BowDen parse :shrug:
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • Carl_Bar
    Carl_Bar
    Carl_Bar wrote: »

    - Ulti Gen, its a skill I cast which procs the ulti gen. Yes there are other skills, but none are exactly 8 sec long so anything that helps proc that as close to 8 seconds a possible is good
    - I can spam cast it as a heal, not very effective, but it is free.
    - Work to keep it up...... Do you have any idea of the basics of any MMO?!?!? Yes you get long duration buffs like food. You also get short duration buffs like Netch which do need work to keep up. Not just one alone, but the balance of several. Fortress, Netch, Lotus, Bird of Prey. Then add in the work of fitting your damage skills around them. Its already sad enough that many MMOs let you write macros that let you recast all your buffs with one button. I don't think ESO is one, it for sure isn't on Console. If thats the kind of game play you find fun, maybe thats a better fit.
    I for one am not someone in favor of potato friendly, nor even in favor of illuminating Animation Canceling, which is a much higher Player Skill barrier than Buff Management is.

    Again if your not constantly using skills as any class your doing something wrong. Ergo Netch has zero advantage over any other skill for this purpose.

    I didn't realize recasting it while it was up counted as unsummoning, and given it's free to do from a healing balance PoV it absolutely should not do that.

    Financially, if your having issues fitting a long duration buff, (and yes it's a long duration buff, just about anything over 15 seconds counts as one in practical terms, food is a completely seperate category), into your rotation i suggest looking behind your keyboard for the issue. You've got countless other effects to worry about procing, almost all of which have a vastly shorter duration. That means much of your build is dictated by those effects and Netch gets squeezed in wherever there's time because with a 24 second duration you've got a serious amount of time in which to find one single skill window to drop it in. Obviously you don't want to be spamming it literally every few seconds, but there's no need to time it's re-up to the very last second. That gives you a fairly decent viable window in which to squeeze it in. And the larger the window you have to do something in the easier it is. Netch is trivial for me atm, i admit though my specific setup is probably playing a part in that. But i still can't foresee netch ever getting hard.

    Jebus.....
    - I dont cast Netch every 8 Seconds, I cast it ever other rotation. Shalks or Birbs are the only real options there though, and both of those have been listed in the "DPS lose" category pre Murkmire, so quite literally your only option was the Netch. Personally I do run Sub, but its 3sec, 3sec, 3sec, 5sec in the rotation, and when I cast Netch its in that 5 sec gap

    So you are arguing about how the Warden "should work" when you dont even know how it does work? :scream: It's a 1k-ish heal, so what if it is a free heal, spam casting it isn't very effective.

    I don't have any issue fitting it my rotation, but it sounds like you do with wanting it permanently summoned. Its not like Molten Weapons (30sec), Grim Focus (20sec) Siphoning Strikes (20sec), Surge (33sec) Rune Focus (17sec), Frost Cloak (24sec), Lotus (20sec) are permanent either, and everyone of them has a much bigger cost then just 1 GCD

    Sorry for being super late getting back, not too well again. health issues on and off all year alas.

    I think somehow you've managed to completely miss my point. Netch is different to all those others you listed. All those other have costs besides casting time. Netch doesn't, it's pure benefit. All of those other abilities with their costs require you to do things, (primarily in a sustain sense), to make use of them. To some degree they create impediments to your build options.

    The cost associated with them is the entire reason they require that you recast them.

    Netch does not have this, it's pure benefit. It actually improves your build options due to the improved sustain it offers.Thats whats different about everyone else's. Everyone else's has a cost associated with it beyond the cast tiem and bar space which creates a tradeoff in it;s use whcih creates other limitations which are part of the skills balancing.

    But netch dosen;t have a cost and we've allready established how easy it is to keep up so why does it need to be recast.



    Answer me this: Given the virtually zero DPS loss from the cast animation tiem, (because it lasts so long), what purpose does it serve in terms of how it changes how you build your character to have a cast tiem on netch?

    Thats my problem here. There's no good reason for it to need recastign beyond "lulz". And doing something just for lulz to make my character viable is not actually fun.
  • Kushington
    Kushington
    Soul Shriven
    New update to Bird of Prey is garbage. Now I'm forced to keep it on my front bar to get the damage bonus. Also the duration cut to 4 seconds is BS. It was nice having stam regen I guess I'll find another way. Just one more wasted skill now.
  • Red_Feather
    Red_Feather
    ✭✭✭✭
    Kushington wrote: »
    New update to Bird of Prey is garbage. Now I'm forced to keep it on my front bar to get the damage bonus. Also the duration cut to 4 seconds is BS. It was nice having stam regen I guess I'll find another way. Just one more wasted skill now.

    The sweeping nerf to speed duration was extremely sloppy. It made so many things weak and didn't bother balancing them. I'll only use Falcon's Swiftness for 'slot to make dps go up'.


    Edited by Red_Feather on October 22, 2018 4:57PM
  • Mojomonkeyman
    Mojomonkeyman
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah, that ZOS doesnt even bother to balance such heavy nerfs with appropriate counter measures is the ultimate slap in the face - they even call it a buff. Hilarious.
    Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo (MMR too high, RIP) & Mighty Mojo Monkey
  • Emphatic_Static
    Emphatic_Static
    ✭✭✭
    Just posted a new discussion that I would appreciate feedback on from the PvP Magdens out there!

    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/442406/arctic-blast-cc-or-fetcher-infection-fear#latest
    Static

    Stamina sORCerer
  • pkuronen
    pkuronen
    ✭✭✭
    Pain point 1: warden ice is not suitable for dps only play due to taunts and lack of dps compared to fire/shock
    Pain point 2: none
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Carl_Bar wrote: »
    Carl_Bar wrote: »

    - Ulti Gen, its a skill I cast which procs the ulti gen. Yes there are other skills, but none are exactly 8 sec long so anything that helps proc that as close to 8 seconds a possible is good
    - I can spam cast it as a heal, not very effective, but it is free.
    - Work to keep it up...... Do you have any idea of the basics of any MMO?!?!? Yes you get long duration buffs like food. You also get short duration buffs like Netch which do need work to keep up. Not just one alone, but the balance of several. Fortress, Netch, Lotus, Bird of Prey. Then add in the work of fitting your damage skills around them. Its already sad enough that many MMOs let you write macros that let you recast all your buffs with one button. I don't think ESO is one, it for sure isn't on Console. If thats the kind of game play you find fun, maybe thats a better fit.
    I for one am not someone in favor of potato friendly, nor even in favor of illuminating Animation Canceling, which is a much higher Player Skill barrier than Buff Management is.

    Again if your not constantly using skills as any class your doing something wrong. Ergo Netch has zero advantage over any other skill for this purpose.

    I didn't realize recasting it while it was up counted as unsummoning, and given it's free to do from a healing balance PoV it absolutely should not do that.

    Financially, if your having issues fitting a long duration buff, (and yes it's a long duration buff, just about anything over 15 seconds counts as one in practical terms, food is a completely seperate category), into your rotation i suggest looking behind your keyboard for the issue. You've got countless other effects to worry about procing, almost all of which have a vastly shorter duration. That means much of your build is dictated by those effects and Netch gets squeezed in wherever there's time because with a 24 second duration you've got a serious amount of time in which to find one single skill window to drop it in. Obviously you don't want to be spamming it literally every few seconds, but there's no need to time it's re-up to the very last second. That gives you a fairly decent viable window in which to squeeze it in. And the larger the window you have to do something in the easier it is. Netch is trivial for me atm, i admit though my specific setup is probably playing a part in that. But i still can't foresee netch ever getting hard.

    Jebus.....
    - I dont cast Netch every 8 Seconds, I cast it ever other rotation. Shalks or Birbs are the only real options there though, and both of those have been listed in the "DPS lose" category pre Murkmire, so quite literally your only option was the Netch. Personally I do run Sub, but its 3sec, 3sec, 3sec, 5sec in the rotation, and when I cast Netch its in that 5 sec gap

    So you are arguing about how the Warden "should work" when you dont even know how it does work? :scream: It's a 1k-ish heal, so what if it is a free heal, spam casting it isn't very effective.

    I don't have any issue fitting it my rotation, but it sounds like you do with wanting it permanently summoned. Its not like Molten Weapons (30sec), Grim Focus (20sec) Siphoning Strikes (20sec), Surge (33sec) Rune Focus (17sec), Frost Cloak (24sec), Lotus (20sec) are permanent either, and everyone of them has a much bigger cost then just 1 GCD

    Sorry for being super late getting back, not too well again. health issues on and off all year alas.

    I think somehow you've managed to completely miss my point. Netch is different to all those others you listed. All those other have costs besides casting time. Netch doesn't, it's pure benefit. All of those other abilities with their costs require you to do things, (primarily in a sustain sense), to make use of them. To some degree they create impediments to your build options.

    The cost associated with them is the entire reason they require that you recast them.

    Netch does not have this, it's pure benefit. It actually improves your build options due to the improved sustain it offers.Thats whats different about everyone else's. Everyone else's has a cost associated with it beyond the cast tiem and bar space which creates a tradeoff in it;s use whcih creates other limitations which are part of the skills balancing.

    But netch dosen;t have a cost and we've allready established how easy it is to keep up so why does it need to be recast.



    Answer me this: Given the virtually zero DPS loss from the cast animation tiem, (because it lasts so long), what purpose does it serve in terms of how it changes how you build your character to have a cast tiem on netch?

    Thats my problem here. There's no good reason for it to need recastign beyond "lulz". And doing something just for lulz to make my character viable is not actually fun.

    @Carl_Bar No, you are missing the point. Netch has exactly two "cost" a GCD, and your memory to recast it. You want to remove the only cost the skill has at all and just make it pure benefit. That is so completely the wrong direction.

    The answer to your question is this. The difference between good players and bad players is skill management. The very good reason for the recast is that that is the cost of the skill, and managing it a long with your other buffs is the difference between good Wardens and bad. (Not to say that balance isn't still a problem as well)

    Edit: Of all the Warden buff management issues. Netch is the last one to touch. Buffing Lotus to 24 seconds. Prey to 12 , Deceptive to 24, Swarm to 12. Making Warden actually fit that multiples of three it seems to have been build on, rather than :rage: up one of the few skills that doesn't need attention.
    Edited by Maura_Neysa on October 31, 2018 12:11AM
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
    ✭✭✭✭
    Pain Points as of Murkmire.

    1. Swarm still feels lacklustre. I don't feel i'm getting a lot of benefit right away or from every cast of the skill.

    2. DPS Wardens in PVE don't really offer anything class specific to help the group.

    Perhaps a Synergy would resolve both these issues.(but i know you don't like suggestions)


    Notable mention.... Ice DPS.
    PS4 NA 1000+ CP
    Imperial Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Warden


    Have played all classes.
  • ESO_Nightingale
    ESO_Nightingale
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    Pain Points as of Murkmire.

    1. Swarm still feels lacklustre. I don't feel i'm getting a lot of benefit right away or from every cast of the skill.

    2. DPS Wardens in PVE don't really offer anything class specific to help the group.

    Perhaps a Synergy would resolve both these issues.(but i know you don't like suggestions)


    Notable mention.... Ice DPS.

    You forgot number 1: arctic blast is a very bad stun and close to useless.
    Come Join the ESO Frost Discord to discuss everything frost!: https://discord.gg/AENgyPp

    Let's make frost better for everyone!
  • Maura_Neysa
    Maura_Neysa
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    Pain Points as of Murkmire.

    1. Swarm still feels lacklustre. I don't feel i'm getting a lot of benefit right away or from every cast of the skill.

    2. DPS Wardens in PVE don't really offer anything class specific to help the group.

    Perhaps a Synergy would resolve both these issues.(but i know you don't like suggestions)


    Notable mention.... Ice DPS.

    Pain Points in Murkmire.

    Arctic Blast was ruined
    Falcon Swiftness was ruined
    Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
    Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe
    Maz Challenger, Shadow Challenger, Faulkreath Challenger, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor
    Major
    Dragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,
    Warden 2x Bow DPS
    Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord
    Others
    PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt

    Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.


  • LeHarrt91
    LeHarrt91
    ✭✭✭✭
    LeHarrt91 wrote: »
    Pain Points as of Murkmire.

    1. Swarm still feels lacklustre. I don't feel i'm getting a lot of benefit right away or from every cast of the skill.

    2. DPS Wardens in PVE don't really offer anything class specific to help the group.

    Perhaps a Synergy would resolve both these issues.(but i know you don't like suggestions)


    Notable mention.... Ice DPS.

    Pain Points in Murkmire.

    Arctic Blast was ruined
    Falcon Swiftness was ruined

    Yes they were, but from a pure PVE perspective, they are my 2 pain points. PVP is a whole other ball game -_-
    PS4 NA 1000+ CP
    Imperial Stamina Warden
    Breton Magicka Warden


    Have played all classes.
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