[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

Joxer61

@Maura_Neysa

Not that new and very aware that you are one of the more "positive" voices for Wardens....

" Nerf'd the strongest DPS skill, with no compensation elsewhere so still bottom tier DPS by 10k+" Still would like to know what class is doing close to 70k? Just curious..thats crazy if true.

Maura_Neysa

Joxer61 wrote: »

@Maura_Neysa

Not that new and very aware that you are one of the more "positive" voices for Wardens....

" Nerf'd the strongest DPS skill, with no compensation elsewhere so still bottom tier DPS by 10k+" Still would like to know what class is doing close to 70k? Just curious..thats crazy if true.

Okay 6k if you run Balance and the Bear. Still bottom of the barrel too.
Magplar has made an amazing comeback though
I will admit, I hadnt realized that Nightblades had taken a 10k Hit, but in Summerset, they could hit 67k DPS


https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuLGCNYH1t5DyQQ5tfU4Hdw/videos

LeHarrt91

Without the Bear it probably would be 10k lol

DanteYoda

I really think this balancing around the top 1% and dummy parses is killing ESO slowly.. Its not working..

Maura_Neysa

DanteYoda wrote: »

I really think this balancing around the top 1% and dummy parses is killing ESO slowly.. Its not working..

If only thats what they were actually doing. Considering how completely broken the Summerset dummy parse was, clearly they had no idea what was going on with that one.

DanteYoda

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I really think this balancing around the top 1% and dummy parses is killing ESO slowly.. Its not working..

If only thats what they were actually doing. Considering how completely broken the Summerset dummy parse was, clearly they had no idea what was going on with that one.

Which one was that i may have missed it.

Maura_Neysa

DanteYoda wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I really think this balancing around the top 1% and dummy parses is killing ESO slowly.. Its not working..

If only thats what they were actually doing. Considering how completely broken the Summerset dummy parse was, clearly they had no idea what was going on with that one.

Which one was that i may have missed it.

Warden at 45k and Nighblades pushing 70k-80k, that one.

max_only

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

MooseKnuckles88

Launch date getting ever so closer and still no explanation or even letting anyone know they care to take further action. I get it, you guys try to be professional and in some cases the less we know the better, but enough time has passed that we're owed at least an explanation for why some changes are going live despite a dps loss for magicka warden, even when it's been stated by your own staff.

Joy_Division

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

DanteYoda

Joy_Division wrote: »

max_only wrote: »

So @Joy_Division is the warden class rep?

We don;t really have a class. If I had my way, the Arctic Blast change would have been handled differently.

We as a community do not blame you.. This is on Zos.

max_only

I’m not looking for someone to blame, just someone to tag when I gather my thoughts.

HankTwo

My biggest pain point: there is no unconditional winter’s embrace skill that deals damage and scales well with mag warden for PvP, even though the class needs one to reliably proc the chilled status effect. This makes the glacial presence passive worse than it should be. Let’s look at the skills one by one:

Frost cloak + morphs: Good skill, but it doesn’t deal damage and therefore can’t proc chilled.
Gripping shards: Damage is based on your max health and the skill works at melee range as a ground placed AOE. Not very useful for mag wardens.
Winter’s revenge: Good skill for PvE, but since it’s a ground placed AOE with a small radius, it has little use in PvP.
Arctic blast: Now a single target stun that for some reason doesn’t deal any damage and therefore can’t proc chilled at all.
Crystalized slab: Unreliable and situational, since it only works against ranged opponents and only if you are the target of their attacks. Which means, that when you play in a group and don’t get focused, you can’t help your teammates by applying chilled/minor maim to the enemy.
Frozen gate + morphs: Very situational skill, since it requires the enemy to walk into the portal. Having enemies teleported right next to you as a ranged mag warden is also rarely desirable. Furthermore, it doesn't activate on cc immune targets.

So, here are some possible solutions (just to share ideas):
1) Give arctic blast some single target damage. Since ZOS doesn’t want stuns to have high upfront damage, a small DOT would be reasonable, because it doesn’t need high damage to proc chilled and you don't want to spam such a stun anyway.
2) Let the glacial presence passive affect all frost damage skills. This would make the passive overall more useful and frost staffs more desirable for mag wardens.
3) Transform frozen device into a skill similar to the mages guild scalding rune. It should activate even when enemies have cc immunity, but no longer teleport them.

Maura_Neysa

max_only wrote: »

I’m not looking for someone to blame, just someone to tag when I gather my thoughts.

@max_only Stay active on the forum and you will see them. However, in my view Joy_Division, Stileanima (DPS), Liofa(Tank), and Taeser(Healer) and are the more Warden knowledgable of the Class Reps. That's not so say the others aren't, just those are the ones I seem more active in the forums, and Theory Crafting on the class (YouTube videos)

If you Discord, here is the Warden one https://discord.gg/nmBdyzN Which I find to be more fluid for general conversation.

Reistoph

1. Got a problems with Netch, it constantly in combat eventhough it's not it combat. And visually, its laser beam is really frustrating, sometimes blocking my visions, especially when in tight spaces. I proposed the Netch to stick at the back of the player like a backpack. Upon cast, the Netch will emerged as usually, then quickly go to our back and attach itself, emitting a radiant green aura.

2. The shalk skills by using the concept of Power Of The Light, instead of making it wait 3 seconds b4 emerge, try to give the base damage and if we activate it a second times, it will emerge immediately. For example, if I cast the shalk and I recast back after 1 secs, the damage will only be 1/3 of its full damage. Meaning if full damage is 16000, 1/3 would be 4800 damage which is considered small but enough to apply the debuff. Another suggestion is, when we recast, after it deals damage, it will cast back, which leads to shalk spam, maybe useful in PVE, but not useful in PVP.

3. Last one is, to fasten the Netch and Lotus animation, coz I felt like a bit too slow when trying to reapplied in combat.

Maura_Neysa

Reistoph wrote: »

1. Got a problems with Netch, it constantly in combat eventhough it's not it combat. And visually, its laser beam is really frustrating, sometimes blocking my visions, especially when in tight spaces. I proposed the Netch to stick at the back of the player like a backpack. Upon cast, the Netch will emerged as usually, then quickly go to our back and attach itself, emitting a radiant green aura.

2. The shalk skills by using the concept of Power Of The Light, instead of making it wait 3 seconds b4 emerge, try to give the base damage and if we activate it a second times, it will emerge immediately. For example, if I cast the shalk and I recast back after 1 secs, the damage will only be 1/3 of its full damage. Meaning if full damage is 16000, 1/3 would be 4800 damage which is considered small but enough to apply the debuff. Another suggestion is, when we recast, after it deals damage, it will cast back, which leads to shalk spam, maybe useful in PVE, but not useful in PVP.

3. Last one is, to fasten the Netch and Lotus animation, coz I felt like a bit too slow when trying to reapplied in combat.

1. Interesting idea. My complaint is that Netch makes you super easy to track, and the beams cuts out making you think the buff is out when it isn't (console) And of course the combat bug. This would solve the one issue easily
2. Hell no, don't touch Shalks, (unless its to give the Stun back) This skill is amazingly good. Especially with the coming cost reduction.
3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

Carl_Bar

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

My question is why Netch needs to be reapplied at all, it really should be a permanent summon, there's no circumstance where you don;t want it active so why do we need to keep recasting it. it dosen;t even have a cast cost beyond time so why isn't it a pet?

MooseKnuckles88

Then we'd likely be forced into double barring the netch too if it was always summoned.

Maura_Neysa

Carl_Bar wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

My question is why Netch needs to be reapplied at all, it really should be a permanent summon, there's no circumstance where you don;t want it active so why do we need to keep recasting it. it dosen;t even have a cast cost beyond time so why isn't it a pet?

Because, its a buff that you need to have to work to keep up.
Plus the passives mean you want to recast. Casting is Ulti Gen and a Heal

HankTwo

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

Then we'd likely be forced into double barring the netch too if it was always summoned.

Don't give ZOS any ideas

LeHarrt91

Carl_Bar wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

My question is why Netch needs to be reapplied at all, it really should be a permanent summon, there's no circumstance where you don;t want it active so why do we need to keep recasting it. it dosen;t even have a cast cost beyond time so why isn't it a pet?

The netch provides major Sorcery and/ or Brutality and returns resources, its a buff skill and needs to be reapplied. its not an active combat pet that deals any damage. thats why is single bar and only lasts 26 seconds.

DanteYoda

I really believe wardens need a complete overhaul.

Gulnagel

DanteYoda wrote: »

I really believe wardens need a complete overhaul.

Probably, as a main warden player I've suffered long with the class but I think from murkmire and forward the tables will turn and warden will find it's place. If there was a classchange-token I'm 100% sure my warden would be something else a long time ago. But I sincerely hope that all us warden mains will find happiness in the class in the near future.

Carl_Bar

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Carl_Bar wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

My question is why Netch needs to be reapplied at all, it really should be a permanent summon, there's no circumstance where you don;t want it active so why do we need to keep recasting it. it dosen;t even have a cast cost beyond time so why isn't it a pet?

Because, its a buff that you need to have to work to keep up.
Plus the passives mean you want to recast. Casting is Ulti Gen and a Heal

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Carl_Bar wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

My question is why Netch needs to be reapplied at all, it really should be a permanent summon, there's no circumstance where you don;t want it active so why do we need to keep recasting it. it dosen;t even have a cast cost beyond time so why isn't it a pet?

The netch provides major Sorcery and/ or Brutality and returns resources, its a buff skill and needs to be reapplied. its not an active combat pet that deals any damage. thats why is single bar and only lasts 26 seconds.

Neither of you make any sense. The fact that it applies various buffs to you does not mean it needs to be refreshed. Those buffs can just be permanently active whilst the pet is summoned. (or if making those specific buffs permanent isn't possibble just have it auto cast an instant on you every 20 odd seconds that applies a stamina per second gain and the other buffs).

Likewise given the long duration it isn't hard to keep active so the claim of needing to work is nonsense, there's no real effort involved, it's just an annoyance.

Likewise it's long duration infrequent summoning and the fact that the ultimate generation has an internal cooldown mean neither the heal nor the ultimate generation are very relevant.

The only point anyone's made thats got some validity is double barring. But there's arguably an awkward pet problem there generally that needs a solution.

MooseKnuckles88

Gulnagel wrote: »

DanteYoda wrote: »

I really believe wardens need a complete overhaul.

Probably, as a main warden player I've suffered long with the class but I think from murkmire and forward the tables will turn and warden will find it's place. If there was a classchange-token I'm 100% sure my warden would be something else a long time ago. But I sincerely hope that all us warden mains will find happiness in the class in the near future.

I'd like to think that way too, but I can't help to see anything else other than what they do every update. Magdens are where they are today because of the power creep from CP.

MooseKnuckles88

@HankTwo

Oh believe me, I don't want that!! Lol. I was just saying if wardens were to have the netch benefits all the time then it'd likely have to come at a cost of double barring the thing. The last thing I want is netch floating around with its visual effects 24/7.

Zardayne

I still wish they would look at swarm to help increase magden damage. I hardly ever hear anyone mention it yet it should be an iconic warden skill for magdens. It's also one of the few to only skills that would increase our damage yet leave stamden untouched. They increased the cost on a double casted or delayed skill and left it there to die on the backbar if that. I feel a lot more Magden should be voicing our displeasure on how this ability has been treated too. It has a lot of potential to be a main bar skill if they'd just quit neglecting it.

Zardayne

MooseKnuckles88 wrote: »

@HankTwo

Oh believe me, I don't want that!! Lol. I was just saying if wardens were to have the netch benefits all the time then it'd likely have to come at a cost of double barring the thing. The last thing I want is netch floating around with its visual effects 24/7.

I'll second not wanting to have the netch up 24/7

HankTwo

Zardayne wrote: »

I still wish they would look at swarm to help increase magden damage. I hardly ever hear anyone mention it yet it should be an iconic warden skill for magdens. It's also one of the few to only skills that would increase our damage yet leave stamden untouched. They increased the cost on a double casted or delayed skill and left it there to die on the backbar if that. I feel a lot more Magden should be voicing our displeasure on how this ability has been treated too. It has a lot of potential to be a main bar skill if they'd just quit neglecting it.

Yeah, I dislike that whole 'every second cast' design. How about giving extra damage whenever you cast it on an already affected enemy? Would overall buff mag warden DPS/sustain for PvE and make the skill better for PvP unless your enemy can purge it.

Maura_Neysa

Carl_Bar wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

Carl_Bar wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

My question is why Netch needs to be reapplied at all, it really should be a permanent summon, there's no circumstance where you don;t want it active so why do we need to keep recasting it. it dosen;t even have a cast cost beyond time so why isn't it a pet?

Because, its a buff that you need to have to work to keep up.
Plus the passives mean you want to recast. Casting is Ulti Gen and a Heal

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Carl_Bar wrote: »

Maura_Neysa wrote: »

3. eh.... Yes the animations are long, but both of these skills cancel out super easily. So they aren't the ones I'd like to see ZoS look at first.

My question is why Netch needs to be reapplied at all, it really should be a permanent summon, there's no circumstance where you don;t want it active so why do we need to keep recasting it. it dosen;t even have a cast cost beyond time so why isn't it a pet?

The netch provides major Sorcery and/ or Brutality and returns resources, its a buff skill and needs to be reapplied. its not an active combat pet that deals any damage. thats why is single bar and only lasts 26 seconds.

Neither of you make any sense. The fact that it applies various buffs to you does not mean it needs to be refreshed. Those buffs can just be permanently active whilst the pet is summoned. (or if making those specific buffs permanent isn't possibble just have it auto cast an instant on you every 20 odd seconds that applies a stamina per second gain and the other buffs).

Likewise given the long duration it isn't hard to keep active so the claim of needing to work is nonsense, there's no real effort involved, it's just an annoyance.

Likewise it's long duration infrequent summoning and the fact that the ultimate generation has an internal cooldown mean neither the heal nor the ultimate generation are very relevant.

The only point anyone's made thats got some validity is double barring. But there's arguably an awkward pet problem there generally that needs a solution.

- Ulti Gen, its a skill I cast which procs the ulti gen. Yes there are other skills, but none are exactly 8 sec long so anything that helps proc that as close to 8 seconds a possible is good
- I can spam cast it as a heal, not very effective, but it is free.
- Work to keep it up...... Do you have any idea of the basics of any MMO?!?!? Yes you get long duration buffs like food. You also get short duration buffs like Netch which do need work to keep up. Not just one alone, but the balance of several. Fortress, Netch, Lotus, Bird of Prey. Then add in the work of fitting your damage skills around them. Its already sad enough that many MMOs let you write macros that let you recast all your buffs with one button. I don't think ESO is one, it for sure isn't on Console. If thats the kind of game play you find fun, maybe thats a better fit.
I for one am not someone in favor of potato friendly, nor even in favor of illuminating Animation Canceling, which is a much higher Player Skill barrier than Buff Management is.