[Class Rep] Warden Feedback Thread

Mr_Stach

Aldoss

Magden is in such a frustrating place. I've mentioned a lot of this on the pts threads, but since none of our feedback was acknowledged by ZOS, and all changes are going live with no tweaks, I'll reiterate them here.

100% of my perspective comes as a PvP dps-focused magden.

Overall

The warden class is so fun and does a lot of things okay, but ultimately loses viability by getting pigeon holed by its own abilities. The combination of certain class defining skills either forces the user into the realm of stamden to better utilize its offensive abilities and natural tankiness or becomes completely entrenched as a full on healer.

The end result of this experience means magden DD is woefully under performing against other magicka based DD classes.

Warden's entire existence is revolved around delayed potential.
- Shalks, the quintessential warden skill is not only a delayed burst, but as a magden, its full potential is locked behind a 6 second window, with the full effect coming from obtaining major (and soon to be minor) breach after a successful hit.
- Cutting Dive for stamdens doesn't gain its use until you proc off balance and cast it again and again. Not only that, the entire animation is delayed, making it feel like it's a channeled ability
- Arctic Blast's most important feature, the aoe stun, only happens after a target takes 3 (soon to be an insane 5) ticks
- Budding Seeds and Corrupting Pollen don't hit their burst heal for 6 seconds
- Frozen Gate takes 1.5 seconds to arm before they can be triggered
- Sleet Storm and its morphs are woefully under powered in a world full of race against time spammers, major evasion wielders, and mist form. It's way too expensive and does terrible damage considering how hard it is to actually land ticks on your opponent
- Guardian's Wrath is the only execute in the game linked to an ultimate trigger, making its full potential locked behind a maximum of 25 seconds of in combat time between uses

The delayed play style allows for an interesting play style, but falls flat in the PvP environment because PvP is all about timed burst. Delayed burst is a factor in creating that timing, but when everything in your kit is delayed, it becomes nearly impossible to line everything up, making a magden's burst essentially non existant.

Most of the downsides of the warden skills are easily made up for with the physical weapon skill lines. Stamdens gain powerful executes regardless of which weapon they choose as well as powerful spammables that synergize well with our primary burst, shalks.

By contrast, magden must sacrifice all potential of an execute in order to run a destruction staff, two of which gain no passive synergy with a warden. Fire staves will give the magden an on demand stun, but loses most of its best passives - glacial presence and piercing cold. Lightning staves will boost the damage of their highest tooltip skill, but gain nothing else for it. Only a frost staff works for a magden who actually wants to gain use of their unique passives, for no other reason than because magden only have two (useful) frost dps skills, neither of which are spammables.

Many class skills for the warden are so strange that their weapon and guild counter parts make way more sense to slot, forcing warden to lose its identity. Race against time is better and more reliable than bird of prey. Dizzying and Reach are easier to use than Dive. Netch being an uncontrollable purge becomes a liability in a post Plaguebreak world. Arctic Blast has been changed and nerfed into obscurity.

How strange is it for an entire class to be so overruled by sets added into the game after its creation? Wardens have no counter to plaguebreak except to choose to eat it as constant free dmg to them and their teak or unslot one of their most iconic class defining skills. Magdens specifically get passive boosts to crit dmg by way of chilled, granting a total of 20% crit, yet a new set was added that basically negates that passive.

Legitimate question to anyone wasting time reading this: do any other classes suffer from this so greatly? Night blades get crit dmg boost as well, but also have several other highly powerful offensive passives, plus their highest tooltip skill isn't also mitigated by major evasion.

Finally, in PvP, nearly every other class has some form of instant impact to bring to a fight. Magdens 'punch' is delayed a minimum of 6 seconds because much of the power of a magden comes from its penetration tied to deep fissure, unless the magden is running a super niche combination of selfish sets (e.g. Draugrkin). There's a lot to be said about how powerful it is for a sorc to streak you, a dk to fossilize you, a NB to incap you, or a Templar to toppling or javelin you. Magdens (and necros, but to a lesser extent) aren't given this and it shows in their tragic tumble to the bottom of the PvP tier lists.

Skills Discussion

Animal Companions

Dive

- I want to love this skill, but the action of it is just so frustrating. I know other people say they hate the off balance, but I actually love it... When you manage to make it proc... The clunkiness of the skill means that off balance isn't calculated from where you cast the skill, but when it hits, making the proc extremely challenging to utilize for little gain. As is, I'd rather slot frost reach and use the master's ice staff for some arguably necessary spell dmg
- The off balance becomes the only real way for a medium range magden DD to actually get access to a stun, because arctic is useless to us
- The 10% bonus damage is still underwhelming considering how frustrating the skill is to use and that a majority of encounters will put you within melee range against classes that have everything given to them to keep you within melee range (e.g. Mag and stamdks, mag and stam plars, mag and stam blades, most stamsorcs, and stamcros)
- In my opinion, this entire skill needs a rework and a new animation. Whoever designed the animation clearly doesn't use it. At best, this skill needs to always proc off balance, regardless of distance.

Fetcher Infection

- I don't actually despise the strange second cast bonus of the mag morph, nor do I despise the fact that it does magic damage. This mechanic seems to synergize well with the fact that magdens will never do what most other classes can - pounce on you and burst you. The second cast allows you to initiate a fight, secure your debuffs, and then capitilize on those debuffs... That is, if you're not dead or glued to your back bar because the other classes have access to instant punch.

Shalks

- Contentious thought here, but this skill needs to do more damage, especially the mag version. The problem with this suggestion is that stamden will always gain more benefit out of this skill simply because most (non bow) stamdens are right up on you, making a successful shalk strike more likely.
- If there exists no way to balance this morph such that stamdens can't become op, then the morph needs to change to do something completely different, akin to crystal frag vs crystal weapon
- Magdens are a weird 'mid-range' DD because of shalks, yet the farther you go toward your max range, especially when running Dive, shalks land sparingly at best
- The closest skill to shalks is blast bones, a skill that already does more damage than shalks but doesn't need to be targetted after the cast. Yes, this is sometimes a negative and blast bones often doesn't hit your intended target, but it does often hit a target
- If magden needs to stay at range, there needs to be a benefit for maintaining focus and actually landing a shalk hit. I don't know what can be done here, but magdens are lacking some serious punch. Plars can get 10k backlash hits with minimal effort. DKs get 10k whip hits for simply existing. Magsorcs get 10k frags with minimal effort. NBs get 10-15k bow procs if their combo lands (albeit, this skill is their entire existence and isn't really comparable). Magden shalks rarely hit past 8k, and when they do, it's because the literal universe has aligned and I got a lucky crit on someone who didn't know how to time their block, with all my buffs (minor force, minor berserk, major + minor courage) and debuffs (minor and sometimes major brittle, major and minor breach, chilled status, minor vuln) perfectly aligned. I'm at 5.5k spell dmg self buffed and regularly hit 6500+ in groups, 24k mag, 17k pen, and 122% crit dmg. Why does a skill that requires so much effort to target during its entire 3 second build up perform so much worse than other classes that get to just press a button?! If the answer is simply because it's aoe, then that's not good enough, especially considering how much damage is mitigated with major evasion. Make the stam morph aoe direct and find something new for mag because right now this is partly why magdens are at such a massive disadvantage.

Netch

- This is another skill I don't currently run on most of my magden builds. The uncontrollable purge is a massive liability when 8/10 encounters result in someone light attacking you and turning you into a bomb. Contentious again, I want the purge gone and put somewhere else.

Wings

- This is another skill I don't currently run that often on any of my magden builds because snare removal is the most valuable feature in any build. Race Against Time over shadows this skill because of the snare removal and the bonus minor force, which synergizes well with magden who gain passive boost to crit dmg
- This skill MUST be given snare immunity. Full stop. Guild and weapon skills should not be better/stronger than class ones. They should be choices that allow the user to customize their build. Currently, RAT is way better than Wings

Eternal Guardian

- This morph is now mediocre. Sure, it respawns once a minute, but the damage in PvP is highly unpredictable in non-1v1 settings, it dishes out free cc immunity, and the ultimate trigger is worse than any other execute in the game, especially considering that your bear will likely not be attacking your target and the trigger can sometimes be delayed up to 3 seconds, giving your target ample time to heal up from the miniscule execute range.
- I love the suggestions presented to turn this into a polar bear and create unique mechanics that give it bonuses to chilled enemies rather than an execute that can only be triggered once every 25 seconds


Green Balance

Fungal Growth

- There's no good explanation as to why this burst heal does less than other spammable heals in the game. It currently tooltips at 3-4k less on the same build compared with honor the dead or resistant flesh
- The stam version has an interesting mechanic, but doesn't work on the caster. I disagree with this choice immensely
- The mag morph has an incredible buff, but the buffs are so good that they completely outshine the heal component. 80% of my casts with this skill are for the buffs
- Boost the burst heal of this skill to bring it in line with other spammable burst heals like honor the dead, allow the stam version to boost the heal on the caster, and replace the unique minor buffs to the Nature's Embrace passive. Double down on Wardens being a utility class and give us the passive ability to buff anyone minor endurance and intellect anytime we heal ourselves or someone else with a Green Balance skill

Healing Seeds

- This skill is where another major gripe comes to light, Ground Targeted Area of Effect (GTAOE)
- GTAOEs perform terribly in this game, worse than any other skill. They lag the server and routinely fail to fire, require double casting to get them to fire, or accidentally double cast destroying the user's action flow
- While there isn't much to be done with the mechanics of this and how it relates to server lag, we should be given a choice between morphs on whether we want a GTAOE at all
- I'd like to see Corrupting become a sibling of Templar's Ritual. Expand the diameter and make it instant cast around the caster

Vines

- I actually love both morphs of this skill and would change nothing

Lotus Flower

- My only gripe with this skill is that I don't currently slot it because, with netch gone, I already get Major Prophecy from potions. I'm sure plenty of wardens run this skill and the recent QoL timer boosts were a welcome change
- Otherwise, this is a great skill and I'm happy with the recent updates to it

Nature's Grasp

- This is an extremely potent HoT and an excellent feature of the main healing tree, but its mechanics make it only useful to a magden who becomes a full heal


Secluded Grove

- Yet again, GTAOE that has all the unreliability of GTAOEs. I can't, in good conscious, slot this ability because of how unreliable it is compared to resto ult
- Again, at least one morph of this skill needs to be instant cast around the warden. The last thing you need for "OHCRAPOHCRAPOHCRAP" moments is a life saving ult that doesn't fire 50% of the time


Winter's Embrace

Frost Cloak

- No changes

Impaling Shards

- Winter's Revenge is the only *actual* frost dps skill for a class who was, and still is, advertised as the "Masters of Ice", yet the skill is terrible in any environment where battles shift. The skill fails for all the same reasons Ash Cloud did in the DK kit and deserves the same care and attention it got
- At a minimum, give Winter's Revenge the Ash Cloud treatment. Keep it ground targetable, but make it a magicka drain instead of an upfront cost. Allow it to do frost damage on cast (with a cooldown attached). This will allow magdens to move it around where it's needed without blowing out their magicka pool
- Alternatively, allow it to do burst damage to chilled targets, akin to Hrothgar (without the same resistance mechanics)
- As is, this is yet another class defining skill that I don't slot on any build because Unstable Wall of Frost outshines it completely

Arctic Wind

- Who has the time for this?!
- This is yet another skill I don't currently use as a DD PvP Magden because its mechanics are useless for a Magden
- This skill deserves a complete rework and it should have already been reworked. The upcoming nerf to this skill is a massive slap in the face and proves undoubtedly that not a single person at ZOS plays a DD style Magden
- This skill costs too much to be a burst heal and heals too little
- The HoT is pitiful and might as well not exist
- The damage will always be less on a magden because a true magden can't build for high hp just to get this skill to perform similar to other aoe dots
- The stun is pointless
- Polar Wind is fine, but Arctic Blast needs to go. Full rework required to get me to slot it again


Crystalized Shield

- Both morphs are just okay
- The stun on slab wasn't asked for and it'll still be challenging to actually use in an offensive way, but oh well. Thanks for trying?
- Shimmering is great, please don't touch it

Frozen Gate

- What was even the intention of this skill?
- Full rework

Sleet Storm

- Both Perma and Northern are great, but really only in a group setting where people are coordinating. As they are, especially with how prevalent snare immunity is in all PvP environments, both morphs become useless the moment someone hits their immunity and just sprints away. The warden literally needs to spam race against time themselves in order to keep up to get even half of the ticks to land.
- This ultimate is weak compared to nearly every other ult in the game. The role play feature of the storm being centered around the warden needs to go. Let one morph stay, maybe Perma as a storm around the caster, but let Northern be placed on an enemy so that full ticks can actually land

There's a lot more that could be said here, but this is honestly long enough and I'm 99% convinced that this will be yet another post that a player spent way too many hours writing that will get 0 eyes from a ZOS team member, let alone a reply from someone who only needs to say "we hear you".

My list here is mostly just observations of what's wrong with not much thought on how things need to be improved because I frankly don't trust my ability to suggest anything that will be remotely balanced. However, these issues are huge and many are very unique to magden and are solved in one way or another on pretty much every other class.

Magdens need to work so much harder than nearly any other class to get anything close to the pressure or pop that other DD classes get by simply pressing a few buttons. By contrast, stealth blade is also rather challenging to perform well, but great stealth blades are highly rewarded for their skill and have some of the most amazing pop in the game. Magden deserves this too and it's not fair that all (usefull) magden skills can be utilized better by stamdens, thus we stay weak, lest stamden becomes too powerful like magdk got this patch.

Magden DDs will continue to be bottom barrel and will be gimped until ZOS acknowledges the grievances shared by so many magdens, both those in these forums and the multitude that are not.

TheImperfect

Pawsy wrote: »

My 2 points is that

1) <subterranean assault/deep fissure doesn't do well as an ability.> It has huge drain on resources, doesn't do that much more damage than a spammable (to the point when sometimes on magden it is more dps to ignore this ability) and its hard as a beginner (it's hard to aim) and clunky to use (the animation is quite long compared to abilities from different classes.
2) <cliff racer is underwhelming>. It's animation is slow and hard to weave, the stam morph doesn't gain anything as a morph and it seems strange that you can absorb it with ice shield but not with flappers from dk skill line.

Yes, feels quite slow to play, everything needs speeding up.

Mr_Stach

Aldoss wrote:

Green Balance

Fungal Growth

- There's no good explanation as to why this burst heal does less than other spammable heals in the game. It currently tooltips at 3-4k less on the same build compared with honor the dead or resistant flesh
- The stam version has an interesting mechanic, but doesn't work on the caster. I disagree with this choice immensely
- The mag morph has an incredible buff, but the buffs are so good that they completely outshine the heal component. 80% of my casts with this skill are for the buffs
- Boost the burst heal of this skill to bring it in line with other spammable burst heals like honor the dead, allow the stam version to boost the heal on the caster, and replace the unique minor buffs to the Nature's Embrace passive. Double down on Wardens being a utility class and give us the passive ability to buff anyone minor endurance and intellect anytime we heal ourselves or someone else with a Green Balance skill

Nature's Grasp

- This is an extremely potent HoT and an excellent feature of the main healing tree, but its mechanics make it only useful to a magden who becomes a full heal.

Really good write-up.

Some notes on Shrooms and Grasp. Which I will compare to Templar, because Honestly, Templar is basically the Standard for good Class Design and is overall Balanced.

Shrooms' tooltip is balanced in the same vein as Healing Ritual as an AoE Burst Heal. So it has the same healing but is worse due to Area Involved. Shrooms has twice the range of Healing Ritual but it is in a thin Conal, so you need to have precise placement, where Templar can just drop Ritual and if they are in the 10m Radius, they get healed.

Nature's Grasp is that ability that is like Breath of Life in healing output but you need to be able to swing to someone to actually use it, which is a big flaw in my book.

Then there's Arctic Wind and Friends, the Burst Heal that everyone hates, it scales off Health, which just makes it Not as useful, but people run for doing 3 things that are useful, but done poorly.

Aldoss

I definitely don't disagree with your assessment of shrooms, but my frustration comes from the fact that it's balanced only through the lens of a full healer, which magdens actually excell quite well at.

A magden DD struggles to save themselves from the brink of death because shrooms suffers from that smaller tooltip and budding requires 2 gcds to cast.

I don't know what needs to be done, but resto ult seems to be the only sure fire way to save yourself from complete disaster, while plars, dks, and necros can eat so much dmg while block casting their burst heals as DD specs and not full healers.

Mr_Stach

Aldoss wrote: »

I definitely don't disagree with your assessment of shrooms, but my frustration comes from the fact that it's balanced only through the lens of a full healer, which magdens actually excell quite well at.

A magden DD struggles to save themselves from the brink of death because shrooms suffers from that smaller tooltip and budding requires 2 gcds to cast.

I don't know what needs to be done, but resto ult seems to be the only sure fire way to save yourself from complete disaster, while plars, dks, and necros can eat so much dmg while block casting their burst heals as DD specs and not full healers.

Yeah, which is why on my Post on Warden chages I suggested a change to one of the morphs of Grasp to be a selfish Burst Heal. I overloaded it in my own post. But if it just was like:

Release a burst of Healing Vines healing yourself or a wounded ally in front of you for 3485 Health. Gain 10 Ultimate when healing an ally or yourself under 60% Health while you are in combat, this portion has a 4 second Cooldown.

Caribou77

I am PVP, mostly battlegrounds.

Two main pain points of Magden in PVP:

1. Needs a stronger class CC (gripping shards is ineffective in pvp). Maybe something with a knockback because Magden's "burst" is all very slow at the moment (3 seconds while you try to line up shalks against a stam toon 3 times faster than you -- a skill that's possible but takes time to develop) and cliff racer is slow and dodgeable no one uses it.

2. Needs a class burst heal stronger than Blessing of Restoration (which is what every magden I know is using).


A close third is that Bird of Prey would be a great skill if it didn't actually slow you down for almost 2 seconds when you cast it. Kind of defeats the purpose, no?

Mr_Stach

Caribou77 wrote: »

I am PVP, mostly battlegrounds.

Two main pain points of Magden in PVP:

1. Needs a stronger class CC (gripping shards is ineffective in pvp). Maybe something with a knockback because Magden's "burst" is all very slow at the moment (3 seconds while you try to line up shalks against a stam toon 3 times faster than you -- a skill that's possible but takes time to develop) and cliff racer is slow and dodgeable no one uses it.

2. Needs a class burst heal stronger than Blessing of Restoration (which is what every magden I know is using).


A close third is that Bird of Prey would be a great skill if it didn't actually slow you down for almost 2 seconds when you cast it. Kind of defeats the purpose, no?

Yeah I think that reliable CC is Wardens largest Pitfall. With Arctic Blast being made useless for a stun it's essentially been removed from the game. And the Slab Stun is reactive so it's not what's really needed.

Warden doesn't have a single burst heal on par with other burst heals. Most of Wardens heals are AoEs so the have a smaller tooltip, the only heal that could almost be relative requires an Ally.

Something that could make BoP much more useful would be if it gave Snare/Imob Immunity on cast with the speed boost.

Goldtistic

Change Deep Fissure to be one of those Shalks from Fang Lair, instead of a basic mag morph of Scorch, summon 1 (or 3?) slow moving, tanky, and tracking Shalks that upon reaching target will detonate and do some special effect, like reduce armor by 3000. The frost class tree needs more identity, frost mages have to rely way too much on ice staves.

Mr_Stach

Goldtistic wrote: »

Change Deep Fissure to be one of those Shalks from Fang Lair, instead of a basic mag morph of Scorch, summon 1 (or 3?) slow moving, tanky, and tracking Shalks that upon reaching target will detonate and do some special effect, like reduce armor by 3000. The frost class tree needs more identity, frost mages have to rely way too much on ice staves.

I see what you're doing there, but slow moving things that have some obvious kiting potential is gonna be a no from me. Delayed damage on Shalks is already annoying and a slower Blast Bones wouldn't be much fun to use in my opinion

MacRibs

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

Mr_Stach

MacRibs wrote: »

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

We've been working on some Warden Changes for Self Healing in our Discord, such as making Bursting Vines a Self Heal:

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

We've been working on some Warden Changes for Self Healing in our Discord, such as making Bursting Vines a Self Heal:

When i made the tooltip i probs should've made the ultimate return condition be a bit lower since 60% for self is really easy to achieve.

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

We've been working on some Warden Changes for Self Healing in our Discord, such as making Bursting Vines a Self Heal:

When i made the tooltip i probs should've made the ultimate return condition be a bit lower since 60% for self is really easy to achieve.

Yeah probably, but it is standard for a lot of self heals to do special effect under 60% just so the special thing does have consistency. But if it was dropped to 50% then it would still have good access to the effect and be more emergency based.

But still Blood for Blood + This Bursting Vines might be an interesting Combo

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

We've been working on some Warden Changes for Self Healing in our Discord, such as making Bursting Vines a Self Heal:

When i made the tooltip i probs should've made the ultimate return condition be a bit lower since 60% for self is really easy to achieve.

Yeah probably, but it is standard for a lot of self heals to do special effect under 60% just so the special thing does have consistency. But if it was dropped to 50% then it would still have good access to the effect and be more emergency based.

But still Blood for Blood + This Bursting Vines might be an interesting Combo

Could be 40%? Same as major mending proc.

Mr_Stach

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

We've been working on some Warden Changes for Self Healing in our Discord, such as making Bursting Vines a Self Heal:

When i made the tooltip i probs should've made the ultimate return condition be a bit lower since 60% for self is really easy to achieve.

Yeah probably, but it is standard for a lot of self heals to do special effect under 60% just so the special thing does have consistency. But if it was dropped to 50% then it would still have good access to the effect and be more emergency based.

But still Blood for Blood + This Bursting Vines might be an interesting Combo

Could be 40%? Same as major mending proc.

That would probably be fine. Either way, have a strong burst heal that doesn't scale off Max Health is important.

I know a lot of people are worried about self healing, but if they just limited the amount of HoTs can be active on a character, that would probably solve the issue

ESO_Nightingale

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

We've been working on some Warden Changes for Self Healing in our Discord, such as making Bursting Vines a Self Heal:

When i made the tooltip i probs should've made the ultimate return condition be a bit lower since 60% for self is really easy to achieve.

Yeah probably, but it is standard for a lot of self heals to do special effect under 60% just so the special thing does have consistency. But if it was dropped to 50% then it would still have good access to the effect and be more emergency based.

But still Blood for Blood + This Bursting Vines might be an interesting Combo

Could be 40%? Same as major mending proc.

That would probably be fine. Either way, have a strong burst heal that doesn't scale off Max Health is important.

I know a lot of people are worried about self healing, but if they just limited the amount of HoTs can be active on a character, that would probably solve the issue

Because the tt of this doesn't reach something like resistant flesh or breath of life, and is instead made up through major mending i think it's fair. We just don't need wep/spell dmg scaling for blast though as so many people have suggested. We need it to be a dps skill. Green balance already contains so many spell/wep dmg scaling skills as well as giving access to the class's HEALING passives that it's the only logical line to have it.

Mr_Stach

,

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

MacRibs wrote: »

It makes no sense whatsoever that a class with a skill tree dedicated to and themed around Ice which is known to FREZEE things and one to healing lacks both a stun and a burst heal.

I also mostly pvp.
Shards, Gate and Arctic are useless right now, the latter could probably be salvaged if they were to rollback the nerf to the healing from some patches ago, the other two have to be reworked.

The only decent heal wardens get is from the Grove ult which in any fight instantly makes you go full defence only to not die for a few more seconds.

Fungal Growth's last buff wasn't enough it needs a rework maybe give it two magicka mophs, one that is as is, a aoe and the other a that only targets the player and heals for more, similar to vigor only not over time.

We've been working on some Warden Changes for Self Healing in our Discord, such as making Bursting Vines a Self Heal:

When i made the tooltip i probs should've made the ultimate return condition be a bit lower since 60% for self is really easy to achieve.

Yeah probably, but it is standard for a lot of self heals to do special effect under 60% just so the special thing does have consistency. But if it was dropped to 50% then it would still have good access to the effect and be more emergency based.

But still Blood for Blood + This Bursting Vines might be an interesting Combo

Could be 40%? Same as major mending proc.

That would probably be fine. Either way, have a strong burst heal that doesn't scale off Max Health is important.

I know a lot of people are worried about self healing, but if they just limited the amount of HoTs can be active on a character, that would probably solve the issue

Because the tt of this doesn't reach something like resistant flesh or breath of life, and is instead made up through major mending i think it's fair. We just don't need wep/spell dmg scaling for blast though as so many people have suggested. We need it to be a dps skill. Green balance already contains so many spell/wep dmg scaling skills as well as giving access to the class's HEALING passives that it's the only logical line to have it.

Yeah, and if they made Arctic the DD Morph then Polar Wind can still be the Tank Support Morph.

Also increase the Duration to 10s to match the rest of AoE DoTs