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Shield Cast Time Removed

UrQuan
UrQuan
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As per @ZOS_GinaBruno 's comment starting the class reps meeting notes here (you're at home, stop posting stuff for work):
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/437982/class-reps-meeting-notes-september-25
The 1 second cast time will be removed from anullment and conjured ward in a future PTS build. In place, they're getting a different nerf.

While I'm sure there'll be a lot of discussion around whether the particular nerf they're getting is appropriate or not, I want to thank the team at ZOS for listening to the reasons why a cast time was specifically a bad way to nerf those particular skills, and taking that feedback.

So thanks @ZOS_RobGarrett and anyone else who was involved in going through that feedback, listening to it, and recognizing that it wasn't just people whining.
Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)
Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)
Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp
Someone stole my sweetroll
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    Well, it probably helped a lot when I pointed out that cast times are far too interruptible in this game even with an "uninterruptible" flag because of the over-use of knockback/pull in the game which don't even trigger CC immunity.
    The cast time was just not going to do what they wanted, especially uninterruptible.
  • Morgul667
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    Seems much better
  • UrQuan
    UrQuan
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    Well, it probably helped a lot when I pointed out that cast times are far too interruptible in this game even with an "uninterruptible" flag because of the over-use of knockback/pull in the game which don't even trigger CC immunity.
    The cast time was just not going to do what they wanted, especially uninterruptible.
    I'm sure that was one of the things they took into account. There were a lot of well thought out posts addressing various problems with the cast time nerf, including yours, and I now feel like they actually paid attention to them.
    Caius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
    Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
    Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
    Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
    J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)
    Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
    Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
    Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
    Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
    Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)
    Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
    Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
    Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
    Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
    Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp
    Someone stole my sweetroll
  • HuawaSepp
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    So with a different nerf they mean to make it like magicka detonation?
    PTS-EU
  • ccfeeling
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    Hi Tasear , I know you play Sorc much .

    What do you feel about the shield strength huge nerf ?
  • _Ahala_
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    40% means 40% cap in PvE and PvP right? Not 40% in PvE and 20% in PvP? Just making sure...
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    _Ahala_ wrote: »
    40% means 40% cap in PvE and PvP right? Not 40% in PvE and 20% in PvP? Just making sure...

    That's the beauty of caps like that. They don't have to change in one part or the other when they can still change the base scaling.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    After all the discussion and thinking about the cast time that was going to be on shields, I actually think they should consider channeled as an option instead of a cast time if they are ever considering it again, or for altering abilities that currently have cast time.

    I got used to channeled skills on my templar and I actually like them because you do get the benefits of both instant and cast time. It does something instantly, so it isn't slow, and it ends up stronger if fully allowed to complete.
    I rather like channeled skills, especially considering how flashy they are like the big "jesus beam" of Radiant Glory.
    Edited by Mystrius_Archaion on September 27, 2018 4:35AM
  • Tasear
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    ccfeeling wrote: »
    Hi Tasear , I know you play Sorc much .

    What do you feel about the shield strength huge nerf ?

    As always, I will be listening and passing on concerns. So go test things and bring back data. Does it work? Is it fun? Let's all work together to make this best game it can be.
  • Strider__Roshin
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    The goal is to make the survivability of magicka comparable to stamina. Sucks doesn't it?
  • Darkenarlol
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    if shields goona have 40% hp cap in both pvp/pve

    then we'll have to adjust something in pve to survive

    and in pvp it looks like my allready mixed into half-support and heal sorc with no shiledstack

    won't be affected much


    if it gonna be like 40% and then halved by battle spirit...just gonna laugh while sitting

    on 3 procsets bleedblade or smth like that
    Edited by Darkenarlol on September 27, 2018 5:41AM
  • Tasear
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    code65536 wrote: »
    That 40% cap is pathetic and damn near useless if you are doing endgame PvE.

    @Tasear You want data? Here's your data:

    This is the kind of damage the mobs are doing in the new Blackrose Prison on vet. This isn't damage from bosses. These aren't special abilities or mechanics. These are just the standard attacks by standard non-boss enemies. Three hits, each doing over 8K, in the span of 1.1s:
    Screenshot_20180922_165038.png

    Ask Wrobel what the hell he expects 40%-of-health shields will do when endgame PvE--vBRP, vCR HM, and other vet DLC content--has this much incoming damage.
    code65536 wrote: »
    That 40% cap is pathetic and damn near useless if you are doing endgame PvE.

    @Tasear You want data? Here's your data:

    This is the kind of damage the mobs are doing in the new Blackrose Prison on vet. This isn't damage from bosses. These aren't special abilities or mechanics. These are just the standard attacks by standard non-boss enemies. Three hits, each doing over 8K, in the span of 1.1s:
    Screenshot_20180922_165038.png

    Ask Wrobel what the hell he expects 40%-of-health shields will do when endgame PvE--vBRP, vCR HM, and other vet DLC content--has this much incoming damage.

    I understand, there is always work to be done. The original intent of the changes was to lessen mirgration and make the healer role needed. So now we have to see how things are with things like major maim, major protection, minor protection, and support like meritorious service offers. Then see if we can find a happy balance that allows us to enjoy the game.
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    code65536 wrote: »
    Tasear wrote: »
    I understand, there is always work to be done. The original intent of the changes was to lessen mirgration and make the healer role needed. So now we have to see how things are with things like major maim, major protection, minor protection, and support like meritorious service offers. Then see if we can find a happy balance that allows us to enjoy the game.

    @Tasear How do healers heal through 1-shots? Because vBRP is brimming with those. You know how to make healers feel useful? Designing content that has strong unpurgeable DoTs and healing checks. They did that with vCR. And they did that with vBRP, which is why despite all the unhealable 1-shots (or in this case, virtually unhealable 3-shot), a dedicated healer is required. As I alluded to in my other post, the tanks are subject to unavoidable, unpureable DoTs and defiles that pretty much requires the need for a dedicated healer (because the heals need to be strong enough to be effective despite the defile) to babysit them.

    Shields are not what killed the need for healers. It's content design where damage avoidance is the only viable game in town.

    I passed this along so other class reps can see and we can discuss. I agree with you, but there's a lot of factors here. First it's still in testing, things can change. Now I get you one shots suck. But was it really a one shot? The picture doesn't tell the whole story. What was the tank doing? Could you avoid the damage? How much of that could of been reduced say with Lord Warden, vyskoa, minor protection, or say bone surge...that shield that gives you a shield worth 100% + of health ? I agree you content design is a issue but my question was your situation truly impossible?
  • ResTandRespeC
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    code65536 wrote: »
    That 40% cap is pathetic and damn near useless if you are doing endgame PvE.

    @Tasear You want data? Here's your data:

    This is the kind of damage the mobs are doing in the new Blackrose Prison on vet. This isn't damage from bosses. These aren't special abilities or mechanics. These are just the standard attacks by standard non-boss enemies. Three hits, each doing over 8K, in the span of 1.1s:
    Screenshot_20180922_165038.png

    Ask Wrobel what the hell he expects 40%-of-health shields will do when endgame PvE--vBRP, vCR HM, and other vet DLC content--has this much incoming damage.

    Add more health one tank set would greatly add to your build. You can’t wear two DPS sets and a DPS Monster set and then complain that you are a glass canon.

    ... Thats not the solution. Healer definitely would be though :heart:. Less dps is always worse in PvE content like this as it usually ends up netting more incoming damage then the extra tankiness mitigates
  • HuawaSepp
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    A 7k shield is just a waste of a slot, magicka and dps.
    But I understand that this change was mainly if not only done because sorc was overperforming in pvp.
    Overperforming means that a mag sorc was able to be on a level with stamwarden or stamblade.

    Now what I can't understand is:
    Why is it needed to make mag sorc absolutely useless?
    A normal nerf would have been enough in my opinion.

    But mostly I play magblade so I can't talk for sorcs now.
    Personally I like the change because it makes pve content more demanding.
    PTS-EU
  • pieratsos
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    Daus wrote: »
    The goal is to make the survivability of magicka comparable to stamina. Sucks doesn't it?

    Sure it sucks. We would all love a Magicka forward momentum, vigor, speed pots, fury, 7th, ravage etc. [removed baiting comment]
    Edited by ZOS_JesC on September 27, 2018 2:40PM
  • Derra
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    Is the 40% cap for individual shields on a char or is it a cap for all shields combined on a char?
    Because the latter would make healingward absolutely useless.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • leepalmer95
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    Daus wrote: »
    The goal is to make the survivability of magicka comparable to stamina. Sucks doesn't it?

    It's weird because in pve:

    Magicka > Stam mainly because of range the sheer amount of dmg.

    But in pvp:

    Stamina > magicka Because of mobility, snare removal, dodge roll scaling well with more people and sets that allow people to run around in heavy and overall better sustain yet also have 35k stam and 4-5k wpn dmg.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Fischblut
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    I want to thank the team at ZOS for listening to the reasons why a cast time was specifically a bad way to nerf those particular skills, and taking that feedback.

    Actually it's nothing special worth thanking - they should feel ashamed for letting such horrible change be even on PTS. They are going to revert it now cause it was the only right thing to do. There are much more other horrible changes which destroy the fun and which they never reverted no matter how many players complained (I will never forget pre-Morrowind :| ).
    Yeah seems like zos are clueless about their own game.

    I agree 100% :/ If a player liked this game, he would never need other people to explain him why such horrible changes are, well, horrible. This understanding should be natural, without any need to explain. The fact that developers needed it is really sad and true shame.
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