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[Class Rep] Sorcerer Feedback Thread
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Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Why dawnbreaker is missable? If it is, that i did not know of.
You don't even know how other ultimates work and your commenting on how to buff sorc ultimates to compare.
Atronach is strong so it does not need a buff.
Negate is strong so it does not need a buff.
Dawnbreaker and Meteor both still have their uses, and unfortunately DB is still better on magsorc in 1vx due to versatility. And you can still run Cage on a 1vx magsorc, you just need to kite a lot more. It works. I do it. Using atro offensively is a mistake since the DB is going to do more for your burst in a 1vx. Sorcs don't 1vx by whittling their opponents down. It's straight burst.
If you're using Atronach outside of dueling for anything other than an offensive defensive ultimate, then you're using it wrong.
Shifting Negate won't fix the problem, it just creates another one. People need to stop asking for band-aid solutions.
Just another guy who assumes i know nothing.
Just another guy who run around zergsurfing claiming hes a solo player and scared of a shifting negate.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Why dawnbreaker is missable? If it is, that i did not know of.
Dawnbreaker hits in a cone in front of you. Someone fast/ reactive, lag, etc. causes that people avoid the cone to the sides, walk through you or simply outrange it. + sometimes it consumes the ult cost but doesn't go off. It actually happens more often than not to me. Metero is target bound. You won't miss bc someone side stepped it. Is the tell rather obvious and long? Sure thing. It might help to speed that up but since you actually can't miss it it's just fair that there is a tell at all. Same issue with Skoria. People ask for a telegraph since forever.
What you ask Meteor to be is:
- cheap
- ranged
- auto target/ can't miss/ can't dodge
- instant/ hard to block
- AoE
- high damage
- person bound high damage DoT
+ fire dmg = extra damage to a huge portion of players (vamps)
+ 9 ultimate restored per target
o snare
All while having no drawbacks whatsoever. I think that's a bit over the top. Like I said, speed up the come down and be done with it. On sorc your actual cost is 170, effective cost 161. For a ranged, undodgeable, aoe burst + dot fire ultimate. If it still is too weak compared to DBoS, maybe reduce the cost a little bit as well. But asking for all the pros without the cons is a bit biased or shortsighted.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »in this game you should look at stamina not as muscles, but more like a different form of magical powers combined with body strength
And I guess the "Physical Damage" these stamina abilities deal is "a different form of magical damage"and btw stamsorcs are more like spellswords, so "SORCERER" in its class name still fits extremely well with the stamsorc class theme
Excatly! They combine muscle power / swordmanship (muscle power / stamina) with magic (magicka). So stamina weapon abilities and magicka sorc abilities combined!
Please, go play a hybrid for anything that's worth running. Speak: vet trials, PvP. Come back and tell us how your stamina weapon skills + magicka class damage skills worked out.
Hint: I already did. Looks good, doesn't work.
Define Hybrid dude. As if it means multiple stat, hell that's what most MagSorcs are. Amber / Shackle / engine guardian / tri stat food / pots, roll dodging etc for mitigation. Feels we all hybrid now lol
Don't play around. In this game the ususal means of an hybrid is: offensive/ damaging skills from both stat pools. E.g. Crit Rush into Frags, while both do decent damage.
Just a high off-stat pool without using it offensively doesn't make you a hybrid. Stam is mandatory for everyone. Stam toons can't empty their main resource on offense, while mags have to build the off pool for defense. BTW on my stamsorc I also run into issues when my off-resource runs dry. Surge, Streak, Dark Deal don't run on thin air. Am I a hybrid as well?
On a sidenote: It's no really a problem to get into the "okay" damage range on a hybrid, but limiting factors are that "okay" is not enough against decent opponents and that your defense or sustain suffers. I killed average pvp'ers on my hybrid sorc back then. Curse + Dizzy (or frags into crit rush) + Wrath + DB did the trick. But either my vigor/rally and hardened armor were subpar or I ran dry in short time. You can't bring up all the stats you need, something is bound to suffer. Sadly, bc it was much fun. Even tho it got me some serious hate tells from broken egos. Someone even "stalked" me after I defeated his meta stamden on my hybrid and went on to tell me what an idiot with and idiotic build I was. Only person I ever reported.
[...]Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Why dawnbreaker is missable? If it is, that i did not know of.
You don't even know how other ultimates work and your commenting on how to buff sorc ultimates to compare.
Atronach is strong so it does not need a buff.
Negate is strong so it does not need a buff.
Dawnbreaker and Meteor both still have their uses, and unfortunately DB is still better on magsorc in 1vx due to versatility. And you can still run Cage on a 1vx magsorc, you just need to kite a lot more. It works. I do it. Using atro offensively is a mistake since the DB is going to do more for your burst in a 1vx. Sorcs don't 1vx by whittling their opponents down. It's straight burst.
If you're using Atronach outside of dueling for anything other than an offensive defensive ultimate, then you're using it wrong.
Shifting Negate won't fix the problem, it just creates another one. People need to stop asking for band-aid solutions.
Just another guy who run around zergsurfing claiming hes a solo player and scared of a shifting negate.
Shifting negate would cause a huge problem. You could lock someone out of their skills for the entire duration and they could do nothing about it. If they outrun/dodge out of the AoE you simply relocate it and they are restriced again. This is not an ideal solution. Especially if you include your other idea to also negate stamina abilities (does that also mean no sprinting/ dodging?) as well. You strip the opponents of every offensive and defensive ability except light/ heavy attacks, without counterplay. Seems like the same over-the-top style as with meteor.
But at least I'm on you with the moveable atronach. I'm just uncertain if it's better to have a player controlled relocation or just make the atro himself moveable. I don't buy the "no-counterplay" argument of IAVITNI since you can stun/ root/ kill the atro easily. Just like every other sorcerer pet (*couch* unkillable shades/shadow image/ shadowrend, anyone? ), just that you can't instantly resummon it. Something that can't be done to negate.
I'd also go as far and incorporate a special means of Rebate. That passive returns around 30-40% of your pet's summoning costs when it's defeated. But only mag. Let's say Atro returns some amount of ultimate if it gets killed, obviously nothing in the 40% range since 70 ultimate would be too much, but a low two-digit amount could be an incentive to actually use this skill. Because right now I think to myself: If my opponent walks away I lost 170 ultimates. If my opponent is worth his salt he 3-shots my atro and I lost 170 ulti as well. Better use something else for purpose X.
Honestly, most of the times I slot Atro in PvP is for the passives. This must change. Either moveable/ relocateable, or a stam version or a lower risk. But right now I could slot Temporal Guard and use it to LoS much better + I get a shield on block, lower risk, minor protection and resource set-back for the hypotetical costs of 20% stam/health regen on backbar. I just have to keep moving and anticipating when I need it; something that every competent player does anyway.Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 9, 2018 8:23AM1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Why dawnbreaker is missable? If it is, that i did not know of.
Dawnbreaker hits in a cone in front of you. Someone fast/ reactive, lag, etc. causes that people avoid the cone to the sides, walk through you or simply outrange it. + sometimes it consumes the ult cost but doesn't go off. It actually happens more often than not to me. Metero is target bound. You won't miss bc someone side stepped it. Is the tell rather obvious and long? Sure thing. It might help to speed that up but since you actually can't miss it it's just fair that there is a tell at all. Same issue with Skoria. People ask for a telegraph since forever.
What you ask Meteor to be is:
- cheap
- ranged
- auto target/ can't miss/ can't dodge
- instant/ hard to block
- AoE
- high damage
- person bound high damage DoT
+ fire dmg = extra damage to a huge portion of players (vamps)
+ 9 ultimate restored per target
o snare
All while having no drawbacks whatsoever. I think that's a bit over the top. Like I said, speed up the come down and be done with it. On sorc your actual cost is 170, effective cost 161. For a ranged, undodgeable, aoe burst + dot fire ultimate. If it still is too weak compared to DBoS, maybe reduce the cost a little bit as well. But asking for all the pros without the cons is a bit biased or shortsighted.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »in this game you should look at stamina not as muscles, but more like a different form of magical powers combined with body strength
And I guess the "Physical Damage" these stamina abilities deal is "a different form of magical damage"and btw stamsorcs are more like spellswords, so "SORCERER" in its class name still fits extremely well with the stamsorc class theme
Excatly! They combine muscle power / swordmanship (muscle power / stamina) with magic (magicka). So stamina weapon abilities and magicka sorc abilities combined!
Please, go play a hybrid for anything that's worth running. Speak: vet trials, PvP. Come back and tell us how your stamina weapon skills + magicka class damage skills worked out.
Hint: I already did. Looks good, doesn't work.
Define Hybrid dude. As if it means multiple stat, hell that's what most MagSorcs are. Amber / Shackle / engine guardian / tri stat food / pots, roll dodging etc for mitigation. Feels we all hybrid now lol
Don't play around. In this game the ususal means of an hybrid is: offensive/ damaging skills from both stat pools. E.g. Crit Rush into Frags, while both do decent damage.
Just a high off-stat pool without using it offensively doesn't make you a hybrid. Stam is mandatory for everyone. Stam toons can't empty their main resource on offense, while mags have to build the off pool for defense. BTW on my stamsorc I also run into issues when my off-resource runs dry. Surge, Streak, Dark Deal don't run on thin air. Am I a hybrid as well?
On a sidenote: It's no really a problem to get into the "okay" damage range on a hybrid, but limiting factors are that "okay" is not enough against decent opponents and that your defense or sustain suffers. I killed average pvp'ers on my hybrid sorc back then. Curse + Dizzy (or frags into crit rush) + Wrath + DB did the trick. But either my vigor/rally and hardened armor were subpar or I ran dry in short time. You can't bring up all the stats you need, something is bound to suffer. Sadly, bc it was much fun. Even tho it got me some serious hate tells from broken egos. Someone even "stalked" me after I defeated his meta stamden on my hybrid and went on to tell me what an idiot with and idiotic build I was. Only person I ever reported.
[...]Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Why dawnbreaker is missable? If it is, that i did not know of.
You don't even know how other ultimates work and your commenting on how to buff sorc ultimates to compare.
Atronach is strong so it does not need a buff.
Negate is strong so it does not need a buff.
Dawnbreaker and Meteor both still have their uses, and unfortunately DB is still better on magsorc in 1vx due to versatility. And you can still run Cage on a 1vx magsorc, you just need to kite a lot more. It works. I do it. Using atro offensively is a mistake since the DB is going to do more for your burst in a 1vx. Sorcs don't 1vx by whittling their opponents down. It's straight burst.
If you're using Atronach outside of dueling for anything other than an offensive defensive ultimate, then you're using it wrong.
Shifting Negate won't fix the problem, it just creates another one. People need to stop asking for band-aid solutions.
Just another guy who run around zergsurfing claiming hes a solo player and scared of a shifting negate.
Shifting negate would cause a huge problem. You could lock someone out of their skills for the entire duration and they could do nothing about it. If they outrun/dodge out of the AoE you simply relocate it and they are restriced again. This is not an ideal solution. Especially if you include your other idea to also negate stamina abilities (does that also mean no sprinting/ dodging?) as well. You strip the opponents of every offensive and defensive ability except light/ heavy attacks, without counterplay. Seems like the same over-the-top style as with meteor.
But at least I'm on you with the moveable atronach. I'm just uncertain if it's better to have a player controlled relocation or just make the atro himself moveable. I don't buy the "no-counterplay" argument of IAVITNI since you can stun/ root/ kill the atro easily. Just like every other sorcerer pet (*couch* unkillable shades/shadow image/ shadowrend, anyone? ), just that you can't instantly resummon it. Something that can't be done to negate.
I'd also go as far and incorporate a special means of Rebate. That passive returns around 30-40% of your pet's summoning costs when it's defeated. But only mag. Let's say Atro returns some amount of ultimate if it gets killed, obviously nothing in the 40% range since 70 ultimate would be too much, but a low two-digit amount could be an incentive to actually use this skill. Because right now I think to myself: If my opponent walks away I lost 170 ultimates. If my opponent is worth his salt he 3-shots my atro and I lost 170 ulti as well. Better use something else for purpose X.
Honestly, most of the times I slot Atro in PvP is for the passives. This must change. Either moveable/ relocateable, or a stam version or a lower risk. But right now I could slot Temporal Guard and use it to LoS much better + I get a shield on block, lower risk, minor protection and resource set-back for the hypotetical costs of 20% stam/health regen on backbar. I just have to keep moving and anticipating when I need it; something that every competent player does anyway.
You are not wrong to all the points you made about my comet change request, but honestly i am not and i never going to be the type of person that NEEDS and cry for something OP to play with.
Current meteor state does MORE damage from DB while not blocked, but i can ensure you that out of 100 comets the 95 will be blocked. That needs a change, a work around. Reduce damage to match is something i should have said all along, i agree with you.
The fact that meteor is ranged while DB is melee makes 0 argument point, since NO good melee in ESO can be kited.
Comet fire damage is 25% extra on vamps stage 4, its lower on vamps stage 1-2-3 while dawnbreaker is PASSIVELY 25% just because youre a vamp or WW(in form) and not regarding to your stage.
DB is used as: run run run, LoS LoS LoS heal heal heal, gather the ulti pts needed attempt to burst then repeat. Comet cant be used like this from NO magica class since vigor ticks yield extreme amounts of ulti. Not only its cheaper, it goes up 3 times faster than meteor does.
When a GOOD dk knows how to counter me, im entirely useless against him
When a GOOD magblade knows how to play(met 2 of them so far) his damage is so big that i barely have time to burst before my both shields are down.
When a GOOD templar wont fight back and just purge+heal youre waisting your magica on them.
So why sorcs cant make others to be entirely useless vs them?
Is it good when a magdk is immune to 80% of my dmg? (dont argue about the n again :P)
Is it good when a magplar is purging and healing all my burst?
Is it good a GOOD magblade barely leaves me 3 sec window to dps him while he has cloak/insane heals/teleport/defensives/speed?
I say it would be good to make them feel useless even for a while, just a taste of their own medicine.3 -
swirve✭✭✭✭
Nope. You're just trying to weasel your way out of an argument you've provided zero evidence for. Be specific. What recent "balance changes" based on PvP complaints actually affected sorc's PvE performance, other than the minor frags nerf? Which PvE content was made harder to complete because of PvP balance changes? I'm genuinely curious.
It's hilarious to me how much PvEers whine about getting nerfed when PvE DPS has been the biggest beneficiary to the massive power creep that ZOS has enables over the past few patches, to the point where the average endgame DPS does twice as much damage as they used to a couple years ago. Which has made 99% of PvE content a complete joke to any half decent player.
#satire....
Sorc changes are due to PvP.... yeah bosses were complaining Sorcs were to OP in vet trials... i blame that Rakkhat... oh wait no... its all PvP crybabies
Serious question: other than the crystal frag nerf (which was ZOS's unilateral decision; no one was complaining about its damage), which recent sorc nerf affected magsorc's PvE DPS as much as, say, the off-balance nerf? Were you using Rune Cage to fight Rakkat or did the stun portion of crystal frags serve any purpose other than giving trash mobs CC immunity and pissing off your tank?
Its hilarious where you feel im complaining about nerfs... clearly your reading comprehension is lacking.
I never mentioned nerfs once, i clearly said they balance based on PvP crybabies...
You are supporting evidence to the PvP crying.
Wrong again... your argument centres on nerfs and ive made no mention of nerfs beyond saying ive made no mention of nerfs...
Own up to your mistake and stop weaseling out of evidencing your claim, own up like a person who thinks & reasons and doesnt just react based on feelings.
This game should not be balanced based on PvP crybabies.Edited by swirve on September 9, 2018 9:48AM1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So why sorcs cant make others to be entirely useless vs them?
I say it would be good to make them feel useless even for a while, just a taste of their own medicine.
I guess you just missed the patch where we had Meteor/Rune Cage sorcs that had a zero counterplay combo. Even sorc mains knew it was utterly broken. And 2-shot overload ganking is still a thing (and has been for years now).1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭So why sorcs cant make others to be entirely useless vs them?
I say it would be good to make them feel useless even for a while, just a taste of their own medicine.
I guess you just missed the patch where we had Meteor/Rune Cage sorcs that had a zero counterplay combo. Even sorc mains knew it was utterly broken. And 2-shot overload ganking is still a thing (and has been for years now).
I havent missed that patch, i was still a reach sorc when that patch was on and emperor on vivec eu pc.
As said many times, landing a perfectly timed 6 skill combo+barswap wont work when 10 zerglings chase me therefore i consider cagesorcs a group build and reachsorc a solo build. A solo build with the sacrifice that you cant do anything vs DK's spamming wings. As about cage combo, i think ive died twice in total from this playstyle severely outnumbered and by group buffed players. Is it magsorc that could+can counter it or you dont know the way? Not sure.
If you die from OL ganker sorcs, you really have to reconsider learning how OL works.
Download MIATS, and when you listen to BEEP insta-roll dodge. Then go back and kill him, hes helpless if his OL wont reach you and most likely you will 2shot a pure OL build. Ball of lightning, Wings, eclipse, roll dodge and BLOCK will save you from OL slow traveling projectiles.0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭
Just another guy who assumes i know nothing.
Just another guy who run around zergsurfing claiming hes a solo player and scared of a shifting negate.
Lul. A shfiting Atronach would actually benefit me and 90% of the time I'm pulling from a zerg fight between the other 2 alliances, so yes I am completely solo. The other 10% I'm duo and I just follow my partner so breaking down that playtime is a lot harder but I only duo maybe once or twice a month.
I play on console where the lag is significantly worse so on a magsorc I need to kite to specific locations that aren't laggy. Chalman keep makes me laugh because if you walk past the Stone gates at the FD when it's under siege the game becomes unplayable for solo but on the other side its manageable. I also used to main DW magicka sorc up until the very end of SS (when WH PTS was out), so don't talk to me about gimped gameplay.
My point is that a shifting Negate does not solve the problem with ball groups. Buffing Negate is like buffing Major Defile to deal with healing. All it does is create 2 extremes that are problematic for everyone except the people who are abusing the broken mechanic. If negate gets a relocate function, it can't receive a buff that's actually useful. Combining both morphs would be more beneficial for the class as it opens up an entire ultimate morph. Your proposal solves zero problems and blocks off any potential for actual progressive change.
As for Atronach, @Chilly-McFreeze allow me to rephrase. I was referring specifically to the damage aspect of the skill, which can't be dodged if you're in the AoE or range of the Atronach. In that sense, the skill has the least counterplay compared to DB and Meteor. All 3 can be blocked but while you can side step a Meteor or DB dot, you can't side step Atronachs.
It also serves as a better zoning tool than Standard or Nova because a magsorc can hide in the Atronach zone. Templars and DKs don't have that option unless they run an off-meta ranged build. So in that sense it has less counters as a zoning tool. With the Health buff, stunning/attacking the Atronach isn't going to make much difference if you can't leave the AoE.
A relocate would be a nice QoL change but it still wouldn't make the ultimate useful outside of duels and defensive zoning. For it to be useful it would need the AoE stun on relocation, which would be incredibly overpowered. Without the stun, your opponent is just going to run farther. It doesn't change a thing. Hence, pointless change.
And Atronach>>Temporal Guard if you intend to stand your ground. If I have 3 players of decent skill on me I'd prefer Atronach but if I'm getting zerged by +6 than yes I'd go Temporal Guard, but LoS and kiting are different, despite their overlap.
Relocate on Atronach just doesn't make sense. It's a nice QoL change but it does nothing to affect the scenarios where Atronach is the most useful (duels and relieving pressure) and tries to turn it into an offensive ultimate when there are far superior options.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭@IAVITNI
"As for Atronach, @Chilly-McFreeze allow me to rephrase. I was referring specifically to the damage aspect of the skill, which can't be dodged if you're in the AoE or range of the Atronach."
Why im even chatting with you seriously?
Atro INITIALLY does an AoE damage, then it picks a target and deals a DoT.
Please when you have 0 knowledge how skills-ultis work stop sharing your opinion.
Making a shifting atro would be great you like it or not.
Making a shifting negate will be AWESOME you like it or not. You flood tears of fears even to the idea of it, imagine your reaction if that would go live.
Yes, as i have 0 counterplay when i take the wrong turn and slam on 25 zerglings, they should face SAME 0 counterplay from 4-5 sorcs keeping them negated and SPREAD around the map.
Also,as i face 0 counterplay to a DK that reflects all my projectiles and i have 0 chance to kill him with curse. He must face the same with me eventually sometime.
As i face 0 counterplay to a templar that looks at me purge+heal everything i do, yes he must face the same 0 counterplay with me.
@ton of HoT, his refreshing path heals him, his 70 cost ulti increases his damage on me 20%, he constantly has 8% max mag+magor war/major resolve+major expedition+crit damage bonus+crit chance bonus YES its time for sorcs to offer 0 counterplay to their oponents.
You keep answering me the same thing AGAIN and AGAIN, just realize that i will keep answering you the same things again and again.0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭@IAVITNI
"As for Atronach, @Chilly-McFreeze allow me to rephrase. I was referring specifically to the damage aspect of the skill, which can't be dodged if you're in the AoE or range of the Atronach."
Why im even chatting with you seriously?
Atro INITIALLY does an AoE damage, then it picks a target and deals a DoT.
Please when you have 0 knowledge how skills-ultis work stop sharing your opinion.
Making a shifting atro would be great you like it or not.
Making a shifting negate will be AWESOME you like it or not. You flood tears of fears even to the idea of it, imagine your reaction if that would go live.
Yes, as i have 0 counterplay when i take the wrong turn and slam on 25 zerglings, they should face SAME 0 counterplay from 4-5 sorcs keeping them negated and SPREAD around the map.
Also,as i face 0 counterplay to a DK that reflects all my projectiles and i have 0 chance to kill him with curse. He must face the same with me eventually sometime.
As i face 0 counterplay to a templar that looks at me purge+heal everything i do, yes he must face the same 0 counterplay with me.
@ton of HoT, his refreshing path heals him, his 70 cost ulti increases his damage on me 20%, he constantly has 8% max mag+magor war/major resolve+major expedition+crit damage bonus+crit chance bonus YES its time for sorcs to offer 0 counterplay to their oponents.
You keep answering me the same thing AGAIN and AGAIN, just realize that i will keep answering you the same things again and again.
So can you roll dodge the atronachs lightning attack? I'm aware of how Atronach works. You're the one that didn't even know that DB can be side stepped xD
Sorcs have THE BEST zoning ultimates in the game in relation to their class. If a DK or Templar drops a Standard/Nova respectively, you move out of the AoE and the battle either stalls or you range them down. Same can't be said with Atronach. A sorc can still burst you down with relative protection.
And this is the primary scenario where Atronach matters. Because if you want to bust a zerg you're not going to use a single target dps zoning ability.
Oh and the counterplay to those zergs is Dark Deal and Streak and Resto Ultimate until you find a keep. I've survived a full zerg chasing me from Aleswell to Ash. It's possible.
Counterplay to DK wings is Mines. DKs don't have to run wings. They choose too. If you choose not to run Mines, that's your choice.
Mines also helps to counter magplars. Actually, it counters pretty much every class but magblades, and even than, it counters the magblades ability to use Soul Harvest/Incap.
And the way you describe magblade makes you sound very biased. Yes it is currently the top dueling class, but a magsorc with Atronach summoned can compete.
My point is, you are asking for a buff that will lock the class in a bad position. Ask for a buff that means something, not a QoL change for yourself simply because you want to use Atronach offensively.
The only reasoning you can provide for relocating is that "its better". How so? How does it change the sorc offensive? So instead of chasing them out of 1 Atronachs range you now chase them out of 2? It's not worth the opportunity cost. And A mobile Negate is just asking for a future nerf. If you really mained sorc, you'd know not to ask for things that have the potential to over perform, even slightly because it will get the class nerfed. Pirate Skeleton was op with shields and they nerfed both that and Frags. Don't ask for a pointless buff that is guaranteed to result in a pointless nerf.1 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only change atro needs is to have a wind atro lol. But nah atro and negate are strong and do exact what they need to do. It would be cool I agree to move that atro. Who wouldn't like the ability to redeploy lol. But meh.
A shifting negate though. Hell no that would destroy cyrodil. It would be the end of times. People thought time bubbles would be the end of zergs, instead just another tool in the Zerg kit. This would be the biggest tool ever handed to zergs. It would be a bunch of sorcs keeping negates up 100% everywhere. Fights would be just neagye cities everywhere. Wow the horror of such an idea WTF.0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pain point stamSorc:
1. No class passives or skills, has no identity just a roaming weapon skill line masquerading as a class.
2. No burst mechanic. Arrow proc, flames of Oblivion/leap/ending ticks of venom claw, purfying light, shalk. StamSorc needs some kind of melee frag proc or something anything.4 -
ku5h✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Despite how easy it is to counter, Meteor is absolutely fantastic on a magsorc even after Rune Cage nerfs. No matter what you are still going to land the Meteor. If the opponent roll dodges the Cage they get stunned by Meteor. If the opponent attempts to block the Meteor you Cage them and the Meteor lands anyways.
On top of that, Dawnbreaker is once again the best magsorc ultimate because it is simply more versatile and does not require Cage cheese to be so effective.
**Cage should not exist in the mag sorc kit as it currently exists.
False, you can block Meteor against Rune cage easily. As soon as you see Meteor indicator dodge-roll into block and you will block Meteor 100% and dodge Cage. Ppl already started preemptively dodging into blocking when meteor indicatored, since they know Rune could be inc.
On your second point. You saying, Dawnbreaker a stamina ULT is best for magSorc like it's a good thing for a Sorc. Are you joking or something?! Rune cage in this gutted state is cheese? Oh my dear Lord!
Dude you ooze false.
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Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭@IAVITNI
Im the guy that did not know you can side step dawnbreaker? How exactly did you gave birth to that scenario? Dont know if you duel 200cp guys but im quite 100% sure that a decent player will always land his dawnbreaker on you.
You said AoE attack, the atro DoT is not AoE attack, again you are not aware of how atro works while you talk about the wrong atro moprh and neither know how ESO works.
Sorc has the best zoning ultimates? Why dont you take MY zoning ultimates while ill take your leap/incap/permaforst?
Counterplay to zergs is dark deal? Converting my magica to health and stamina as magsorc counterplay's organized zerglings 25+?
Counterplay of magsorcs to DK's wings are mines? So as a Magsorc you kill dk's with mines and curse? Are you serious?
Counterplay to magplars are mines? A good magplar has no change vs a good magsorc, why would i counterplay them with mines? If a magplar kills a magsorc he severely outskilled him.
99% of magblades i meet they have absolutely 0 idea on how to play their class, now the 3 GOOD magblades i know will wait for mines expiration OR untill you cast them the arming time. Still you fail to realize how this game works plus a good magblade wont give a damn on your mines since their charge brings them right on your hitbox and they dont step on mines.
I am the one who is biased against magblades, yet you are the one whining on the fear of sorcs change and the slight possibility of sorcs getting their ultis reworked. Yet i clearly stated that i have 0 problem with the vast majority of magblades.
Bone pirate and frags were nerfed because non L2P against sorc whinebabies like you did their forum crusade and succeed on it.
A shifting negate will make things a lot better for sorcs and alot better for cyrodiil PING response since it will wipe out the existance of those 25+ mindless zerglings spamming skills under the protection of 4 templars+10 earthgores.
A shifting attro will make sorc having a sturdy ultimate that can be used efficiently vs players that kite around rocks and instantly LoS it once its up
A reworked instant comet will give the chance to magsorcs+magplars to have a decent ulti + magDK/magblade/magwarden to have a RANGED ulti they dont have while their ultis are the best but melee
Please, play the game L2P and it will save you from these monstrosities and jokes you post here like atro does AoE attack, dark deal saves you from zergs, DK's die in sorcs mines and all the jokes you considered as serious answers + post.Edited by Nicko_Lps on September 10, 2018 8:10AM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
A shifting negate will make things a lot better for sorcs and alot better for cyrodiil PING response since it will wipe out the existance of those 25+ mindless zerglings spamming skills under the protection of 4 templars+10 earthgores.
I know I repeat myself. You write as if negate would only be used against ball groups. While this game has proven time and time again that every anti-zerg tool ends up more effectively when used by said groups. Destro ult, tornado, bats; just to name a few.
But that isn't my main concern. Having a large AoE shut down is by itself a very strong tool, even without taking the damage/ healing into account. Is it easy to step outside of the AoE? Sure. But that is at least counterplay. As it's currently a means to stress stacked groups, you could always incorporate another AoE snare/ stun/ root to make escape a tad harder.
Area denial is a thing and main purpose of negate, not figuratively taking total control from your opponent. Just like mines are for area denial, not for killing blows.
As soon as you make negate shiftable, you can shut down your opponents permanently. Why shouldn't I use this even in 1v1? I mean, what could any mag build do against this? As soon as s/he leaves the AoE I'd just move it back onto them. Doesn't sound balanced.
I'm not even convinced that Negate needs any buff at all. If you think it's too easy to avoid you should ask for a more sensible and balanced approach, e.g. adding a snare and/or slight pull to or around it.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Chilly-McFreeze
Negate shines in tower defenses and flag fights, close quarter combat with limited available space. For the rest it’s a waste of Ult most times given how mobile most players have become.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Chilly-McFreeze
Negate shines in tower defenses and flag fights, close quarter combat with limited available space. For the rest it’s a waste of Ult most times given how mobile most players have become.
And it is completely useless against stam builds. No other ulti is completely harmless to certain builds / three quarters of the PvP population. Negate his highly discriminatory against magicka builds. It really should affect both magicka and stamina builds equally. Stam builds will still be at an advantage due to their high speeds, immunities to roots and slows, and their greater capability to dodge roll. But it would at least not be as unbalanced as it is now.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
A shifting negate will make things a lot better for sorcs and alot better for cyrodiil PING response since it will wipe out the existance of those 25+ mindless zerglings spamming skills under the protection of 4 templars+10 earthgores.
I know I repeat myself. You write as if negate would only be used against ball groups. While this game has proven time and time again that every anti-zerg tool ends up more effectively when used by said groups. Destro ult, tornado, bats; just to name a few.
But that isn't my main concern. Having a large AoE shut down is by itself a very strong tool, even without taking the damage/ healing into account. Is it easy to step outside of the AoE? Sure. But that is at least counterplay. As it's currently a means to stress stacked groups, you could always incorporate another AoE snare/ stun/ root to make escape a tad harder.
Area denial is a thing and main purpose of negate, not figuratively taking total control from your opponent. Just like mines are for area denial, not for killing blows.
As soon as you make negate shiftable, you can shut down your opponents permanently. Why shouldn't I use this even in 1v1? I mean, what could any mag build do against this? As soon as s/he leaves the AoE I'd just move it back onto them. Doesn't sound balanced.
I'm not even convinced that Negate needs any buff at all. If you think it's too easy to avoid you should ask for a more sensible and balanced approach, e.g. adding a snare and/or slight pull to or around it.
I agree to each and every point you made, but still making it shifting could be a less duration or smaller range maybe? Nowadays timestop is more efficient than negate, i think negate for the current zergling META is outdated and ridiculous.
The main problem here i think is not that anti zerg tools become zerg tools..ZoS itself promotes zerging for players that cant standalone in PvP environments. The ex-skyrim LA spammers have to find a way to play PVP, the problem is when they are 25,organized and they have negates templars earthgores bla bla bla they need at least 50 or more non organized to be brought down AND IF.
Now why do i care? I should not care because organized always wins, but since ZoS is proven unable to fix lag when those destroball zerglings run around the map and increase my latency 200+MS they affect me EVEN when im out of their range by hundreds of meters away.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Galarthor
Stam builds weren’t a thing when Negate was designed. Stam silence would probably be overpowered. That stam is unaffected isn’t quite fair, I agree. But at least it disrupts magicka support builds, and that’s an effect towards stam chars too.
I think Negate really lost a lot with Earthgore and the swift meta. Earthgore bails you out, and so does the speed. Negate is really of limited use now.Edited by Feanor on September 10, 2018 9:49AMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭There was a time when negate actually silenced both stam and magicka.
And I don't really see a reason why it should not affect stam builds.
If the goal is to surpress suport builds then have it supress support abilities and apply the respective debuffs.
There is no reason why stamina builds should be able to completely ignore such an expensive ultimate, while it equals a death sentence for any mag build that doesn't manage to get out of there quickly .... especially since stam builds got a far greater chance of getting out of there than magicka builds (higher speed, immunity to root and slow, high dodge / block capacity).0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There was a time when negate actually silenced both stam and magicka.
And I don't really see a reason why it should not affect stam builds.
If the goal is to surpress suport builds then have it supress support abilities and apply the respective debuffs.
There is no reason why stamina builds should be able to completely ignore such an expensive ultimate, while it equals a death sentence for any mag build that doesn't manage to get out of there quickly .... especially since stam builds got a far greater chance of getting out of there than magicka builds (higher speed, immunity to root and slow, high dodge / block capacity).
Shutting down stam... what would that include? Skills only or everything that costs stamina, e.g. dodging, sprinting? Would it also cancel stamina effects like Vigor, Rapids and Forward Momentum (there goes the snare immunity and the speed)?
But sure, you three guys have some points. I just think it's a really small step from "situational great" to overpowered. You said yourself that it's adeath sentence to slow magbuilds. Do we really want the skill to become a death sentence with no means to escape by making it shiftable?0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There was a time when negate actually silenced both stam and magicka.
And I don't really see a reason why it should not affect stam builds.
If the goal is to surpress suport builds then have it supress support abilities and apply the respective debuffs.
There is no reason why stamina builds should be able to completely ignore such an expensive ultimate, while it equals a death sentence for any mag build that doesn't manage to get out of there quickly .... especially since stam builds got a far greater chance of getting out of there than magicka builds (higher speed, immunity to root and slow, high dodge / block capacity).
Shutting down stam... what would that include? Skills only or everything that costs stamina, e.g. dodging, sprinting? Would it also cancel stamina effects like Vigor, Rapids and Forward Momentum (there goes the snare immunity and the speed)?
But sure, you three guys have some points. I just think it's a really small step from "situational great" to overpowered. You said yourself that it's adeath sentence to slow magbuilds. Do we really want the skill to become a death sentence with no means to escape by making it shiftable?
Again i agree with you on "situational great" to overpowered but we are just players proposing stuff based to the problems we have to face when playing the game, my problem is 200+ms when zerglings appear. But as we propose stuff, its the DEV's that would maybe take account what we say and create a balanced version of our thoughts.(balanced well ok lol)
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Adernath✭✭✭✭✭I think Negate really lost a lot with Earthgore and the swift meta. Earthgore bails you out, and so does the speed. Negate is really of limited use now.
It would be awesome if negate would get a morph to let it move with you - but likely there has to be a drawback because this would be a little too op. Perhaps the drawback would be to have it a channeled mechanics so you can not spam other abilities, only move the bubble (edited).
Edited by Adernath on September 10, 2018 10:37AM0 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
Shutting down stam... what would that include? Skills only or everything that costs stamina, e.g. dodging, sprinting? Would it also cancel stamina effects like Vigor, Rapids and Forward Momentum (there goes the snare immunity and the speed)?
But sure, you three guys have some points. I just think it's a really small step from "situational great" to overpowered. You said yourself that it's adeath sentence to slow magbuilds. Do we really want the skill to become a death sentence with no means to escape by making it shiftable?
It would have to be stam skills only. It still would be more punishing to magicka builds, but if you wouldn't dodge or sprint out of it, negate would just be an "I win" button. It's already pretty close to it.0 -
Galarthor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There was a time when negate actually silenced both stam and magicka.
And I don't really see a reason why it should not affect stam builds.
If the goal is to surpress suport builds then have it supress support abilities and apply the respective debuffs.
There is no reason why stamina builds should be able to completely ignore such an expensive ultimate, while it equals a death sentence for any mag build that doesn't manage to get out of there quickly .... especially since stam builds got a far greater chance of getting out of there than magicka builds (higher speed, immunity to root and slow, high dodge / block capacity).
Shutting down stam... what would that include? Skills only or everything that costs stamina, e.g. dodging, sprinting? Would it also cancel stamina effects like Vigor, Rapids and Forward Momentum (there goes the snare immunity and the speed)?
But sure, you three guys have some points. I just think it's a really small step from "situational great" to overpowered. You said yourself that it's adeath sentence to slow magbuilds. Do we really want the skill to become a death sentence with no means to escape by making it shiftable?
Well a good start would be to give it the same treatment as magicka.
That still leaves magicka at a disadvantage compared to stamina, but it would not be as ridicculously large as it currently is AND it finally get rid of the only ulti / skill that only works on 1 kind of build, but not the other.
In a second step, your "suggestions" might have to be taken into account to further increase the balance of negates effect on stamina and magicka builds, but that is considerably more difficult.
Alternatively, we could also just give magicka builds a class ultimate that they are completely immune against ... let's say Incap or Leap. Surely, there NBs or DKs wouldn't have a problem with that ...0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There was a time when negate actually silenced both stam and magicka.
And I don't really see a reason why it should not affect stam builds.
If the goal is to surpress suport builds then have it supress support abilities and apply the respective debuffs.
There is no reason why stamina builds should be able to completely ignore such an expensive ultimate, while it equals a death sentence for any mag build that doesn't manage to get out of there quickly .... especially since stam builds got a far greater chance of getting out of there than magicka builds (higher speed, immunity to root and slow, high dodge / block capacity).
Shutting down stam... what would that include? Skills only or everything that costs stamina, e.g. dodging, sprinting? Would it also cancel stamina effects like Vigor, Rapids and Forward Momentum (there goes the snare immunity and the speed)?
But sure, you three guys have some points. I just think it's a really small step from "situational great" to overpowered. You said yourself that it's adeath sentence to slow magbuilds. Do we really want the skill to become a death sentence with no means to escape by making it shiftable?
Well a good start would be to give it the same treatment as magicka.
That still leaves magicka at a disadvantage compared to stamina, but it would not be as ridicculously large as it currently is AND it finally get rid of the only ulti / skill that only works on 1 kind of build, but not the other.
In a second step, your "suggestions" might have to be taken into account to further increase the balance of negates effect on stamina and magicka builds, but that is considerably more difficult.
Alternatively, we could also just give magicka builds a class ultimate that they are completely immune against ... let's say Incap or Leap. Surely, there NBs or DKs wouldn't have a problem with that ...
The main reason we brought up negate is for an efficient way to end that 25+zergling parade that spam their skills under 10+ earthgores+ 4 templars.
Its not that we have to give same treatment to stamina as magica gets, more like a vigor can proc an eathgore or a bone shield could be used under heavy pressure inside a negate. That makes it a must to have both stamina and magica negated.
If they cant sprint or roll dodge out of it, EVEN better0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »There was a time when negate actually silenced both stam and magicka.
And I don't really see a reason why it should not affect stam builds.
If the goal is to surpress suport builds then have it supress support abilities and apply the respective debuffs.
There is no reason why stamina builds should be able to completely ignore such an expensive ultimate, while it equals a death sentence for any mag build that doesn't manage to get out of there quickly .... especially since stam builds got a far greater chance of getting out of there than magicka builds (higher speed, immunity to root and slow, high dodge / block capacity).
Shutting down stam... what would that include? Skills only or everything that costs stamina, e.g. dodging, sprinting? Would it also cancel stamina effects like Vigor, Rapids and Forward Momentum (there goes the snare immunity and the speed)?
But sure, you three guys have some points. I just think it's a really small step from "situational great" to overpowered. You said yourself that it's adeath sentence to slow magbuilds. Do we really want the skill to become a death sentence with no means to escape by making it shiftable?
Well a good start would be to give it the same treatment as magicka.
That still leaves magicka at a disadvantage compared to stamina, but it would not be as ridicculously large as it currently is AND it finally get rid of the only ulti / skill that only works on 1 kind of build, but not the other.
In a second step, your "suggestions" might have to be taken into account to further increase the balance of negates effect on stamina and magicka builds, but that is considerably more difficult.
Alternatively, we could also just give magicka builds a class ultimate that they are completely immune against ... let's say Incap or Leap. Surely, there NBs or DKs wouldn't have a problem with that ...
The main reason we brought up negate is for an efficient way to end that 25+zergling parade that spam their skills under 10+ earthgores+ 4 templars.
Its not that we have to give same treatment to stamina as magica gets, more like a vigor can proc an eathgore or a bone shield could be used under heavy pressure inside a negate. That makes it a must to have both stamina and magica negated.
If they cant sprint or roll dodge out of it, EVEN better
That Zerg would now just spam negates on you if it were shiftable.5 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭
Despite how easy it is to counter, Meteor is absolutely fantastic on a magsorc even after Rune Cage nerfs. No matter what you are still going to land the Meteor. If the opponent roll dodges the Cage they get stunned by Meteor. If the opponent attempts to block the Meteor you Cage them and the Meteor lands anyways.
On top of that, Dawnbreaker is once again the best magsorc ultimate because it is simply more versatile and does not require Cage cheese to be so effective.
**Cage should not exist in the mag sorc kit as it currently exists.
False, you can block Meteor against Rune cage easily. As soon as you see Meteor indicator dodge-roll into block and you will block Meteor 100% and dodge Cage. Ppl already started preemptively dodging into blocking when meteor indicatored, since they know Rune could be inc.
On your second point. You saying, Dawnbreaker a stamina ULT is best for magSorc like it's a good thing for a Sorc. Are you joking or something?! Rune cage in this gutted state is cheese? Oh my dear Lord!
Dude you ooze false.
As a solo magsorc I prefer DB over Meteor because it gives me better control over melee opponents. Never said they couldn't buff overload. I just don't think a moving Negate is a good idea and a moving Atronach is pointless. It buffs the skill to the point where the skill can't be buffed but it doesn't make the skill any better.
And sure you can still block Meteor. It's not going to happen every time if you time Meteor properly. If you're throwing it out willy nilly as soon as you have enough ultimate then its probably going to be blocked. If you're dropping it in a duel for pressure, its still a great way to drain stam, or you can time Cage to land right after Meteor, so even if they block the initial hit they still have to break free in the DoT.0 -
IAVITNI✭✭✭✭✭@IAVITNI
Im the guy that did not know you can side step dawnbreaker? How exactly did you gave birth to that scenario? Dont know if you duel 200cp guys but im quite 100% sure that a decent player will always land his dawnbreaker on you.
You said AoE attack, the atro DoT is not AoE attack, again you are not aware of how atro works while you talk about the wrong atro moprh and neither know how ESO works.
Sorc has the best zoning ultimates? Why dont you take MY zoning ultimates while ill take your leap/incap/permaforst?
Counterplay to zergs is dark deal? Converting my magica to health and stamina as magsorc counterplay's organized zerglings 25+?
Counterplay of magsorcs to DK's wings are mines? So as a Magsorc you kill dk's with mines and curse? Are you serious?
Counterplay to magplars are mines? A good magplar has no change vs a good magsorc, why would i counterplay them with mines? If a magplar kills a magsorc he severely outskilled him.
99% of magblades i meet they have absolutely 0 idea on how to play their class, now the 3 GOOD magblades i know will wait for mines expiration OR untill you cast them the arming time. Still you fail to realize how this game works plus a good magblade wont give a damn on your mines since their charge brings them right on your hitbox and they dont step on mines.
I am the one who is biased against magblades, yet you are the one whining on the fear of sorcs change and the slight possibility of sorcs getting their ultis reworked. Yet i clearly stated that i have 0 problem with the vast majority of magblades.
Bone pirate and frags were nerfed because non L2P against sorc whinebabies like you did their forum crusade and succeed on it.
A shifting negate will make things a lot better for sorcs and alot better for cyrodiil PING response since it will wipe out the existance of those 25+ mindless zerglings spamming skills under the protection of 4 templars+10 earthgores.
A shifting attro will make sorc having a sturdy ultimate that can be used efficiently vs players that kite around rocks and instantly LoS it once its up
A reworked instant comet will give the chance to magsorcs+magplars to have a decent ulti + magDK/magblade/magwarden to have a RANGED ulti they dont have while their ultis are the best but melee
Please, play the game L2P and it will save you from these monstrosities and jokes you post here like atro does AoE attack, dark deal saves you from zergs, DK's die in sorcs mines and all the jokes you considered as serious answers + post.
Even a top duelist can miss a DB if you predict it. Sure, more often than not its costs a dodge roll to get behind them right before the DB lands but side stepping it is possible. I've done it. Not often but I've done it.
The initial Stun is an AoE. Radius and AoE are technically interchangeable in regards to Atronach. Radius determines the area that the Atronach can affect; hence area of effect. It was just me be being to lazy to say radius and partially assuming people would be intelligent enough to understand what I meant. It appears I was wrong.
I am a magsorc main btw. Get out with the whine blades. I've been a DW magsorc for as long as I could until the max stat changes. I have 6 sorcs-2 mag, 1 healer, 1 stam, 1 tank, 1 pve dps.
I don't want my class to be stuck in an unbuffable position because the class received buffs into all the wrong areas.
If forum blades weren't a thing, I wouldn't say anything. But if you give sorcs a moving Atronach and a moving Negate, it will make the class even more annoying for potatoes to play against. Go make a thread about how shield breaker is broken and see how much support you get. Forums don't care that it ignores an entire classes defensive mechanics. All they care about is that they got hit by the sorc 3 button combo and can't get through shields.
I'd rather sorc stay mediocre for a few patches in order for the class to get actual beneficial buffs to their overall kit than get mediocre QoL buffs that prevent any real change and incite further unnecessary nerfs.
Tell me, how will a relocatable Atronach fix the class? Will it up burst? Will it reduce reliance on shield stacking? Will it help increase mobility? No. It will just make sorcs more annoying to duel with and fight open world without benefitting the class and instigating the masses.
Relocating Negate? It does nothing to zergs since they will have healers outside the radius anyways. Honestly as a sorc I don't care much about being negated myself since I'm constantly moving in open field. But that would become real annoying real fast on a magplar/magdk and then guess who comes to reinforce the nightblades on their nerf sorc crusade.
Sorc is in a horrible state right now and people still want the class nerfed. Get out with your presumptuous attitude and perceived victimization. That has never helped the sorc class and neither will your proposed buffs.
Oh and:As i face 0 counterplay to a templar that looks at me purge+heal everything i do, yes he must face the same 0 counterplay with me.
That was you bud. You were crying about magplars so I gave you a means to relieve pressure against them a la mines. You talk about other classes like their easy to play. For the most part they are not. If you want to talk balance you have to remain unbiased, which for the most part, you are not.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd rather sorc stay mediocre for a few patches in order for the class to get actual beneficial buffs to their overall kit than get mediocre QoL buffs that prevent any real change and incite further unnecessary nerfs.
@IAVITNI
Not gonna happen. Wrobel is already targeting shields instead.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭@IAVITNI
Im the guy that did not know you can side step dawnbreaker? How exactly did you gave birth to that scenario? Dont know if you duel 200cp guys but im quite 100% sure that a decent player will always land his dawnbreaker on you.
You said AoE attack, the atro DoT is not AoE attack, again you are not aware of how atro works while you talk about the wrong atro moprh and neither know how ESO works.
Sorc has the best zoning ultimates? Why dont you take MY zoning ultimates while ill take your leap/incap/permaforst?
Counterplay to zergs is dark deal? Converting my magica to health and stamina as magsorc counterplay's organized zerglings 25+?
Counterplay of magsorcs to DK's wings are mines? So as a Magsorc you kill dk's with mines and curse? Are you serious?
Counterplay to magplars are mines? A good magplar has no change vs a good magsorc, why would i counterplay them with mines? If a magplar kills a magsorc he severely outskilled him.
99% of magblades i meet they have absolutely 0 idea on how to play their class, now the 3 GOOD magblades i know will wait for mines expiration OR untill you cast them the arming time. Still you fail to realize how this game works plus a good magblade wont give a damn on your mines since their charge brings them right on your hitbox and they dont step on mines.
I am the one who is biased against magblades, yet you are the one whining on the fear of sorcs change and the slight possibility of sorcs getting their ultis reworked. Yet i clearly stated that i have 0 problem with the vast majority of magblades.
Bone pirate and frags were nerfed because non L2P against sorc whinebabies like you did their forum crusade and succeed on it.
A shifting negate will make things a lot better for sorcs and alot better for cyrodiil PING response since it will wipe out the existance of those 25+ mindless zerglings spamming skills under the protection of 4 templars+10 earthgores.
A shifting attro will make sorc having a sturdy ultimate that can be used efficiently vs players that kite around rocks and instantly LoS it once its up
A reworked instant comet will give the chance to magsorcs+magplars to have a decent ulti + magDK/magblade/magwarden to have a RANGED ulti they dont have while their ultis are the best but melee
Please, play the game L2P and it will save you from these monstrosities and jokes you post here like atro does AoE attack, dark deal saves you from zergs, DK's die in sorcs mines and all the jokes you considered as serious answers + post.
Even a top duelist can miss a DB if you predict it. Sure, more often than not its costs a dodge roll to get behind them right before the DB lands but side stepping it is possible. I've done it. Not often but I've done it.
The initial Stun is an AoE. Radius and AoE are technically interchangeable in regards to Atronach. Radius determines the area that the Atronach can affect; hence area of effect. It was just me be being to lazy to say radius and partially assuming people would be intelligent enough to understand what I meant. It appears I was wrong.
I am a magsorc main btw. Get out with the whine blades. I've been a DW magsorc for as long as I could until the max stat changes. I have 6 sorcs-2 mag, 1 healer, 1 stam, 1 tank, 1 pve dps.
I don't want my class to be stuck in an unbuffable position because the class received buffs into all the wrong areas.
If forum blades weren't a thing, I wouldn't say anything. But if you give sorcs a moving Atronach and a moving Negate, it will make the class even more annoying for potatoes to play against. Go make a thread about how shield breaker is broken and see how much support you get. Forums don't care that it ignores an entire classes defensive mechanics. All they care about is that they got hit by the sorc 3 button combo and can't get through shields.
I'd rather sorc stay mediocre for a few patches in order for the class to get actual beneficial buffs to their overall kit than get mediocre QoL buffs that prevent any real change and incite further unnecessary nerfs.
Tell me, how will a relocatable Atronach fix the class? Will it up burst? Will it reduce reliance on shield stacking? Will it help increase mobility? No. It will just make sorcs more annoying to duel with and fight open world without benefitting the class and instigating the masses.
Relocating Negate? It does nothing to zergs since they will have healers outside the radius anyways. Honestly as a sorc I don't care much about being negated myself since I'm constantly moving in open field. But that would become real annoying real fast on a magplar/magdk and then guess who comes to reinforce the nightblades on their nerf sorc crusade.
Sorc is in a horrible state right now and people still want the class nerfed. Get out with your presumptuous attitude and perceived victimization. That has never helped the sorc class and neither will your proposed buffs.
Oh and:As i face 0 counterplay to a templar that looks at me purge+heal everything i do, yes he must face the same 0 counterplay with me.
That was you bud. You were crying about magplars so I gave you a means to relieve pressure against them a la mines. You talk about other classes like their easy to play. For the most part they are not. If you want to talk balance you have to remain unbiased, which for the most part, you are not.
You are probably got beaten alot by magsorcs, since you dont play a magsorc. Get out of this threat i dont really understand why you come to draw attention here with your "statements"
Crying about magplars? When i said a GOOD magplar has no chance vs a GOOD magsorc i was crying? Just in case you fail to understand it, because you fail to understand alot: A magplar has the option to do nothing but BoL+ Purge and remain there forever. If hes good enough.
Whats your problem with shifting atro? While i dont care what your problem is, when someone spends his ulti points on comet or atro and they both get easyly avoided by anybody that has normal IQ that need to change. You like it or not, if you dont like it get to the nightblade forum and plan there your secret tamriel dominance and supremacy.
So you care about potatoes being killed? Go whine on the nighblade forum that nightblade 1shot potatoes in like 1 sec then come again and cry here for a potential shifting atro.
Sorc burst does not need improvement, if you think that magsorc needs more burst go play a magplade then.
Magsorcs need a better, alot better sustain and more consistent damage. IF you increase your magsorc burst you will endup dueling people for 15 sec just because you 1shotted them.
A general rework on negate is NEEDED, time stop is 10x more effective than negate nowadays. It slows it stuns it negates healing... Negate is being removed by earthgore. Thats a full zergling meta dream we live in. Now if you think shifting negate is not good idea propose something else instead of whining like a baby. Negate is not a solo tool, if negate is being buffed that does not mean sorc will be considered buffed. Use your brain please.
You rather have mediocre sorc for a few patches more. Thats you, i have the right to have my opinion though, when you keep attacking me with plain BS that i dont know i can step aside from DB while you have no idea how your atro works just because you have the wrong morph that does AoE damage.. Find somebody else to bother, i will keep having my opinion no matter what you say.0