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Buff to medium armor?
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John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.1 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Rift decided it was too difficult to make fights where ranged had to deal with as many mechanics as melee did, so they just made melee hit 10-15% harder to compensate. It effectively balanced out dps in real combat situations.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Rift decided it was too difficult to make fights where ranged had to deal with as many mechanics as melee did, so they just made melee hit 10-15% harder to compensate. It effectively balanced out dps in real combat situations.
And how does it work for pvp?0 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Rift decided it was too difficult to make fights where ranged had to deal with as many mechanics as melee did, so they just made melee hit 10-15% harder to compensate. It effectively balanced out dps in real combat situations.
And how does it work for pvp?
I didn't pvp much, but from what I do recall back when I played, it really depended on the map itself. Some maps had plenty of LoS spaces and melee could dominate in those, but others were very wide open and favored range. Nobody seemed to complain much about that particular aspect of it.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Crafts_Many_Boxes , I'm just unfamiliar with Rift. Was the decision in the game from the start? Thing is that in ESO, the content is not uniform - simply bumping damage will probably make stamina outperform in some older content; at the same time, it may not remove issues, because melee-punishing mechanics in new content makes it that melee is either not doing much (and does little damage, so the value of the buff may not even come into play) or lies dead (and does zero damage). I wouldn't rule out that bumping raw damage in such situation would make the balance even worse.1 -
Crafts_Many_Boxes✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Crafts_Many_Boxes , I'm just unfamiliar with Rift. Was the decision in the game from the start? Thing is that in ESO, the content is not uniform - simply bumping damage will probably make stamina outperform in some older content; at the same time, it may not remove issues, because melee-punishing mechanics in new content makes it that melee is either not doing much (and does little damage, so the value of the buff may not even come into play) or lies dead (and does zero damage). I wouldn't rule out that bumping raw damage in such situation would make the balance even worse.
The whole idea of melee should be risk-reward. If you go into the fray, you run a higher risk of taking hits (boss cleave, aoe, etc), but you can also deal greater damage. Rift also had a lot of quick reconnect abilities, like charges and speed boosts for melee characters that doesn't really work in a game with 5 ability slots I suppose. If you were in melee range for 85-90% of the fight, you would deal the same damage as a ranged DPS. So it was pretty balanced on most fights, melee did better on some fights, and ranged did better on some fights.
Melee outperformed by design, but only in a vacuum. It was just common sense that melee dummy parses were higher, but ultimately in raid parses they wound up being very comparable. Balancing of both classes and encounters was built around these combat parses.
This setup allowed them to not have to worry about melee especially in terms of raid design. Again, it worked very well. PvP too, because like I said, some maps had very open spaces where ranged were favored even with gap-closing abilities (partly because cooldowns are a thing in that game).0 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
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Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
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SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
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Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.0 -
SilverWF✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Read whole post next time, not just 1st string, then come back.
Farewell.- PC EU. Ebonheart Pact. CP 1k+
- YouTube: All ESO disguises (2014)
- EU players are humans too! We want our maintenances in the least pop time (at deep night) and not lasted for several hours!
- Animation canceR - is true PvP cancer! When you can't see which actions your opponent do - you can't react properly on them!
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Are you one of those magsorcs that know only how to spam frags and light attacks?Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 6, 2018 10:12PM1 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Are you one of those magsorcs that know only how to spam frags and light attacks?
So you think that when a sorc is 90% reflected from a DK is spamming frags+light attacks, that he is playing a reach build did not crossed your mind?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Considering that @SilverWF wrote "Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks. They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af", he was speaking PvE - not sure why you've started over about PvP again. Do you imagine now that in PvE, where magDKs take melee slot in group, they get to fight magsorc and magblade bosses and can reflect their damage? ^^0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Are you one of those magsorcs that know only how to spam frags and light attacks?
Start easy, without weaving and wrath execute proc, just looking at skills:
Out of the usual combo of reach, frags, curse, wrath, meteor and light attack
Reflectable: Reach, Frags, Light Attack = 3/6 = 50% reflectable
Blockable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Meteor, Wrath = 5/6 = 83%
Dodgeable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Wrath = 4/6 = 66%
That is if you count LA as 1, if you would count every light attack in that combo the percentages would severely rise. I'm not 100% sure but afaik wrath's execute proc is unblockable (if the initial wrath isn't dodged, otherwise there's no proc anymore). Now look at a rotation/ actual combo:
LA > Curse > LA > wrath > LA > meteor > LA > reach > LA > frags > LA > Wrath Proc would mean:
Reflectable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, 8/12 = 66% BUT if you dodge the initial wrath the execute won't proc, means 8/11 = 72%
Blockable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath, Meteor = 10/12 = 83% BUT if you dodge wrath > no proc, means 10/11 = 90%
Dodgeable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath = 9/12 =75% BUT if you actually dodge wrath > no proc, means 9/11 = 81%
If the execute proc is blockable, % would rise again.
If you avoid/block/reflect parts of the rotation, chances are that wrath's proc won't even happen.
So yes, 90% is a bit of an overstatement. But so is your comment.
Edited by Chilly-McFreeze on September 7, 2018 8:28AM0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Are you one of those magsorcs that know only how to spam frags and light attacks?
Start easy, without weaving and wrath execute proc, just looking at skills:
Out of the usual combo of reach, frags, curse, wrath, meteor and light attack
Reflectable: Reach, Frags, Light Attack = 3/6 = 50% reflectable
Blockable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Meteor, Wrath = 5/6 = 83%
Dodgeable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Wrath = 4/6 = 66%
That is if you count LA as 1, if you would count every light attack in that combo the percentages would severely rise. I'm not 100% sure but afaik wrath's execute proc is unblockable (if the initial wrath isn't dodged, otherwise there's no proc anymore). Now look at a rotation/ actual combo:
LA > Curse > LA > wrath > LA > meteor > LA > reach > LA > frags > LA > Wrath Proc would mean:
Reflectable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, 8/12 = 66% BUT if you dodge the initial wrath the execute won't proc, means 8/11 = 72%
Blockable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath, Meteor = 10/12 = 83% BUT if you dodge wrath > no proc, means 10/11 = 90%
Dodgeable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath = 9/12 =75% BUT if you actually dodge wrath > no proc, means 9/11 = 81%
If the execute proc is blockable, % would rise again.
If you avoid/block/reflect parts of the rotation, chances are that wrath's proc won't even happen.
So yes, 90% is a bit of an overstatement. But so is your comment.
Well to be honest, a smart reachsorc vs a smart player would never use comet. Specially when you have 0 chance to stun the enemy player. I usually put down an atro if the DK wants to stay put on the resourse flag to capture it, he will go away. OR if the DK is right between the npc i stay ranged and negate the npc while dpsing them. Other all scenarios as im V stage 4(lol) i need lights champion.
Indeed 90% is overstatement if you count down skills but since he reflects the stun/dps ability, theoretically he is 100% immune to a reachsorc's dps pressure.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Are you one of those magsorcs that know only how to spam frags and light attacks?
Start easy, without weaving and wrath execute proc, just looking at skills:
Out of the usual combo of reach, frags, curse, wrath, meteor and light attack
Reflectable: Reach, Frags, Light Attack = 3/6 = 50% reflectable
Blockable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Meteor, Wrath = 5/6 = 83%
Dodgeable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Wrath = 4/6 = 66%
That is if you count LA as 1, if you would count every light attack in that combo the percentages would severely rise. I'm not 100% sure but afaik wrath's execute proc is unblockable (if the initial wrath isn't dodged, otherwise there's no proc anymore). Now look at a rotation/ actual combo:
LA > Curse > LA > wrath > LA > meteor > LA > reach > LA > frags > LA > Wrath Proc would mean:
Reflectable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, 8/12 = 66% BUT if you dodge the initial wrath the execute won't proc, means 8/11 = 72%
Blockable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath, Meteor = 10/12 = 83% BUT if you dodge wrath > no proc, means 10/11 = 90%
Dodgeable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath = 9/12 =75% BUT if you actually dodge wrath > no proc, means 9/11 = 81%
If the execute proc is blockable, % would rise again.
If you avoid/block/reflect parts of the rotation, chances are that wrath's proc won't even happen.
So yes, 90% is a bit of an overstatement. But so is your comment.
Well to be honest, a smart reachsorc vs a smart player would never use comet. Specially when you have 0 chance to stun the enemy player. I usually put down an atro if the DK wants to stay put on the resourse flag to capture it, he will go away. OR if the DK is right between the npc i stay ranged and negate the npc while dpsing them. Other all scenarios as im V stage 4(lol) i need lights champion.
Indeed 90% is overstatement if you count down skills but since he reflects the stun/dps ability, theoretically he is 100% immune to a reachsorc's dps pressure.
Sí, I'm just too lazy to put up with every possible combo. It's just that the "you only know to frag + la" got me a little off.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »@StamWhipCultist , partially why I'm refraining from proposing any concrete changes anywhere. Besides, stamina's woes in PvE is a product of many factors, not only survivability. A lot of blame is on melee-hostile content design, on sets. But I don't expect large balancing changes any time soon.
Not only staminators are melee.
MagDk's need huge buffs? Are you sure about it? xD
Compared to Sorcs and NBs they are sucks.
They are taking melee slot while being squishy Af
But the OP are trying to convert all melee problems to the medium armor problems.
This is wrong and I'm only trying to show this.
You do know that a GOOD dk reflects 90% of magsorc damage and probably 60% of magblade damage right?
Did not research magblade in PVP atm, but a magsorc is pretty much helpless vs a good magDK when the sorc is not a zoosorc ofc.
Are you one of those magsorcs that know only how to spam frags and light attacks?
Start easy, without weaving and wrath execute proc, just looking at skills:
Out of the usual combo of reach, frags, curse, wrath, meteor and light attack
Reflectable: Reach, Frags, Light Attack = 3/6 = 50% reflectable
Blockable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Meteor, Wrath = 5/6 = 83%
Dodgeable: Reach, Frag, Light Attack, Wrath = 4/6 = 66%
That is if you count LA as 1, if you would count every light attack in that combo the percentages would severely rise. I'm not 100% sure but afaik wrath's execute proc is unblockable (if the initial wrath isn't dodged, otherwise there's no proc anymore). Now look at a rotation/ actual combo:
LA > Curse > LA > wrath > LA > meteor > LA > reach > LA > frags > LA > Wrath Proc would mean:
Reflectable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, 8/12 = 66% BUT if you dodge the initial wrath the execute won't proc, means 8/11 = 72%
Blockable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath, Meteor = 10/12 = 83% BUT if you dodge wrath > no proc, means 10/11 = 90%
Dodgeable: 6 LA, Reach, Frags, Wrath = 9/12 =75% BUT if you actually dodge wrath > no proc, means 9/11 = 81%
If the execute proc is blockable, % would rise again.
If you avoid/block/reflect parts of the rotation, chances are that wrath's proc won't even happen.
So yes, 90% is a bit of an overstatement. But so is your comment.
Well to be honest, a smart reachsorc vs a smart player would never use comet. Specially when you have 0 chance to stun the enemy player. I usually put down an atro if the DK wants to stay put on the resourse flag to capture it, he will go away. OR if the DK is right between the npc i stay ranged and negate the npc while dpsing them. Other all scenarios as im V stage 4(lol) i need lights champion.
Indeed 90% is overstatement if you count down skills but since he reflects the stun/dps ability, theoretically he is 100% immune to a reachsorc's dps pressure.
Sí, I'm just too lazy to put up with every possible combo. It's just that the "you only know to frag + la" got me a little off.
Its ok, thats nothing compared to what i usually see about me in this game. Im used to more harsh stuff EG https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/433334/whats-wrong-with-pvp-coomunity/p2
But believe it or not, there are some amazing sorcs that hard cast again and again that frag LOL but without LA xD1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Destro magblades have no problem duking it out with Dks that have wings on. A sorc with the option to build into pets, use mines,force pulse,meteor, soul assault etc should not cry about wings. It makes you look pathetic, but then again, its always easier to cry than to admit you can actually do something about it.
But why change your cookie cutter cheese rotation right? When it comes to shieldstacking its ''lul just count to 6 you noob'' but when it comes to wings suddenly it is not an option
Edited by Ragnarock41 on September 8, 2018 1:42AM0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Destro magblades have no problem duking it out with Dks that have wings on. A sorc with the option to build into pets, use mines,force pulse,meteor, soul assault etc should not cry about wings. It makes you look pathetic, but then again, its always easier to cry than to admit you can actually do something about it.
But why change your cookie cutter cheese rotation right? When it comes to shieldstacking its ''lul just count to 6 you noob'' but when it comes to wings suddenly it is not an option
Cry?
You having some sort of hallucinations?
Dont know why youre triggered by first thinking i spam frag+LA and then by coming and claiming that i cry?
Who told you i will make a special build for DK's?
Why would i cry about something that has less chance than 0 to kill me when i streak and ignore it ?
Cookie cutter cheese rotation? Shield stacking?
Says the class with reflects-bloodheal-scratch heal-whip-heal-ulti heal+resourses+shield.
Try without those cookie cutter goodies you got and not use a shieldstack, ure dead than less of a sec.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Destro magblades have no problem duking it out with Dks that have wings on. A sorc with the option to build into pets, use mines,force pulse,meteor, soul assault etc should not cry about wings. It makes you look pathetic, but then again, its always easier to cry than to admit you can actually do something about it.
But why change your cookie cutter cheese rotation right? When it comes to shieldstacking its ''lul just count to 6 you noob'' but when it comes to wings suddenly it is not an option
No one said DK is an I win scenario against magsorcs. I just showed you that the biggest bulk of sorc dps can be reflected or negated by any means. So what's already low pressure gets eased even more. And since it's very obvious when the sorc burst will go down + there is always the 3.5s setup time, it's not as easy as "just count to 4" and start your rotation then. You don't surprise someone with sorc burst.
BTW it's a bit cynical to call out magsorcs for cookie cutting when they are forced into an extremely one dimensional playstyle and build meta. Pets don't work out so well in open world. Shielding is mandatory since they don't synergyze with heals (no reliable, effective, instant heals) or heavy armor and their mobility is entirely negated via every gap closer or sprinting. Plus slotting Pulse means you need another slot (which they are already in dire need for) for a stun. Leaves only Cage but that got gutted to a point of questionable utility.
However, this shouldn't be in this thread. Let's get back to topic.
My few cents on this: MA recieved some indirect buffs via changes and nerfs to (formerly) undodgeable abilities while heavy armor got gutted several times (nerfs to constitution, dmg passive deleted, nothing in return). NBs, who are arguably top of the pvp food chain, would profit the most from a buff. In PvE, it's already medium or bust on sDPS. Most issues why ranged dps outperforming MA builds is not MA but mechanics, and those also hinder melee mag dps. So I'd be cautios with buffing MA any further.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Chilly-McFreeze , it is mechanics all right; content is melee-hostile lately. But the proposals in this thread are just attempting to be practical: thing is, it's very unlikely (and it's very sad) that ZOS will retrofit existing content not to punish melee so hard. So, people are seeking a leeway to tackle the issue from another end; medium armor is simply one of appealing ways to try and approach the problem, because (with exception of MagDK) it's tied to melee, and because its defensive skill is a rudiment in PvE - those two, taken together, make MA look like a handy path to solve at least some of PvE stamina woes. Granted, changing anything may affect balance, including PvP balance. Not advocating rush decisions here.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Chilly-McFreeze , it is mechanics all right; content is melee-hostile lately. But the proposals in this thread are just attempting to be practical: thing is, it's very unlikely (and it's very sad) that ZOS will retrofit existing content not to punish melee so hard. So, people are seeking a leeway to tackle the issue from another end; medium armor is simply one of appealing ways to try and approach the problem, because (with exception of MagDK) it's tied to melee, and because its defensive skill is a rudiment in PvE - those two, taken together, make MA look like a handy path to solve at least some of PvE stamina woes. Granted, changing anything may affect balance, including PvP balance. Not advocating rush decisions here.
There is no MMO that is melee friendly. If you think ESO is melee hostile try playing WoW, out of 14 dps usually MAX 4 is melee or lower. You cant roll dodge out of roots, you cant break slows unless a healer purge you and you cc break each 2 min.
In other words, a mage can kite(slow-stun-root) a DK in WoW untill hell freezes over. Now in anti melee ESO a sorc cant kite a good melee, while in PvE+PvP a good melee has more mobility from Ranged... But its ESO right? Play it your way, whine in forums to get "more of your way".
The more tears the better we evolve right?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭There is no MMO that is melee friendly. If you think ESO is melee hostile try playing WoW, out of 14 dps usually MAX 4 is melee or lower. You cant roll dodge out of roots, you cant break slows unless a healer purge you and you cc break each 2 min.
In other words, a mage can kite(slow-stun-root) a DK in WoW untill hell freezes over. Now in anti melee ESO a sorc cant kite a good melee, while in PvE+PvP a good melee has more mobility from Ranged... But its ESO right? Play it your way, whine in forums to get "more of your way".
The more tears the better we evolve right?
Why do you keep speaking about melee in PvE if you don't know a single thing about ESO PvE? Melee's task is to stay on target and do damage; if melee isn't doing anything but kiting and running away - it's not doing damage, and it's unwelcome in given content. So in short: no. We don't evolve. In endgame, stamina is not viable, leaderboards are chock full of ranged magicka, it speaks about problems in game balance.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »There is no MMO that is melee friendly. If you think ESO is melee hostile try playing WoW, out of 14 dps usually MAX 4 is melee or lower. You cant roll dodge out of roots, you cant break slows unless a healer purge you and you cc break each 2 min.
In other words, a mage can kite(slow-stun-root) a DK in WoW untill hell freezes over. Now in anti melee ESO a sorc cant kite a good melee, while in PvE+PvP a good melee has more mobility from Ranged... But its ESO right? Play it your way, whine in forums to get "more of your way".
The more tears the better we evolve right?
Why do you keep speaking about melee in PvE if you don't know a single thing about ESO PvE? Melee's task is to stay on target and do damage; if melee isn't doing anything but kiting and running away - it's not doing damage, and it's unwelcome in given content. So in short: no. We don't evolve. In endgame, stamina is not viable, leaderboards are chock full of ranged magicka, it speaks about problems in game balance.
What you fail to understand is: Melee have a higher dps output in general from PURE ranged(no zaan). Therefore you can suffer small loss in dps since melee dps output is higher. Most case PVE scenarios in ESO melee+ranged stack together, or im saying this because i dont know a single thing about PVE?
In what content of the game melee is not viable? What makes you think that i dont know a single thing about PVE? Did you used the pythia tactic smoked daphne leaves and all came to a conclusion ?0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭In what content of the game melee is not viable? What makes you think that i dont know a single thing about PVE? Did you used the pythia tactic smoked daphne leaves and all came to a conclusion ?
Really, should I quote you? ^^
> Stamina is way better, slot suffle and replace rending slashes with vigor. What is your problem then?
(Nobody slots shuffle in PvE.)
> ...nowadays even magsorcs have to play melee to have their best dps output. ESO we are all melee.
(I can't even.)
> When magsorcs and magblades are using zaan they are melee range,
(PvE in ESO is those videos with dummy parses, right?)
Those peculiar notions you have about PvE tell a story more eloquently than any pythia would have told. ^^ Melee and ranged stack together? Why am I even writing it... For content - go Cloudrest, go Asylum, try Archcustodian in HoF. Lots of cases where stamina is a liability. I'm not even sure why you're not commenting on leaderboard situation. It's probably easier to make a look as though you didn't read that part. I give up. I think I'll be skipping from now on.0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »In what content of the game melee is not viable? What makes you think that i dont know a single thing about PVE? Did you used the pythia tactic smoked daphne leaves and all came to a conclusion ?
Really, should I quote you? ^^
> Stamina is way better, slot suffle and replace rending slashes with vigor. What is your problem then?
(Nobody slots shuffle in PvE.)
> ...nowadays even magsorcs have to play melee to have their best dps output. ESO we are all melee.
(I can't even.)
> When magsorcs and magblades are using zaan they are melee range,
(PvE in ESO is those videos with dummy parses, right?)
Those peculiar notions you have about PvE tell a story more eloquently than any pythia would have told. ^^ Melee and ranged stack together? Why am I even writing it... For content - go Cloudrest, go Asylum, try Archcustodian in HoF. Lots of cases where stamina is a liability. I'm not even sure why you're not commenting on leaderboard situation. It's probably easier to make a look as though you didn't read that part. I give up. I think I'll be skipping from now on.
Just in case you faield to understand, when you complained about not being tanky enough i simply told you that YOU DONT use a defensive as magica does, why you complain? USE a defensive if you think youre not tanky enough. The best dps is the alive one, not the 50k dead one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mvPETl6I1w&t=5s
I see them stacked here, or he doesn't know how to play and you do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvZisqKp7Ok
Liko the great, magblade melee mode. Or his zaan is ranged? Only his. Not mine, mine can be melee while his is ranged.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Nicko_Lps , wonderful, you've decided to make example of Hunter-Killer whose most dangerous melee-range mechanics is aimed at the tank, and Rakkhat where you can pull it off. How many Zaan users did you count, by the way? (HInt: one. And that's on this very particular boss.) So hand-picking videos won't help you there. And yes, you ignored the question of leaderboards - again. Very selective of you.
So, once again, done here. You don't know anything about PvE. ^^0 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »@Nicko_Lps , wonderful, you've decided to make example of Hunter-Killer whose most dangerous melee-range mechanics is aimed at the tank, and Rakkhat where you can pull it off. How many Zaan users did you count, by the way? (HInt: one. And that's on this very particular boss.) So hand-picking videos won't help you there. And yes, you ignored the question of leaderboards - again. Very selective of you.
So, once again, done here. You don't know anything about PvE. ^^
As i recall i said sorcs+nb's are melee when using zaan. Never said they always do.
Hand picking videos took me 2 min, i can find you another 100 if you wish and if i would bother to prove you that youre nothing more than a "buff me whiner". Why would i not ignore leaderboards? Does it say STAMINA nightblade or MAGICA nightblade next to the person name or just a class icon?
Man get serious, stamina is great if you cant deal with it QUIT IT.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As i recall i said sorcs+nb's are melee when using zaan. Never said they always do.Dont tell me melee range, nowadays even magsorcs have to play melee to have their best dps output. ESO we are all melee.
I have no words. So I think I'll leave it here and won't be casting any more pearls.0