Buff to medium armor?

John_Falstaff

> Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Moving sneak passives to Legerdemain is very logical, but I think putting crit resistance in its place is too specialized; probably no point placing something PvP-oriented in an armor skill line.

By and large, I think that medium armor doesn't just need a small QoL, but all three lines could use conceptual rework. Simply because armor stopped being, well, an armor. Magicka in light armor has way more survivability thanks to shields, plus in PvE, being in medium armor almost always implies being in melee range and exposed to more damage and one-shot AoEs.

Doctordarkspawn

Carbonised wrote: »

The problem is not medium armor, which is fine, but Forward Momentum, which is an extremely overpowered skill in a skill tree with many powerful skills. Major buff for a long time, consistent HoTs ticking, as well as snare removal and 8 secs of snare immunity is extremely powerful, way too powerful. No, medium armor shouldn't get that kind of buff as well.

Wings have gotten a snare immunity of 2 seconds, that's hardly comparable. If anything, Forward momentum should be nerfed to 2 secs immunity as well, seeing as other snare immunities share that timer.

Overpowered in PVP.

Dont nerf for the sake of PVP. Nerfing for the sake of PVP is allways a bad idea.

John_Falstaff

Actually, I would see it as a good start if they removed dodge fatigue for medium armor. To think of it, it's a matter of theme: conceptually, different armor lines have different way of avoiding damage. Heavy armor mitigates. Light armor shields up and stays at range. Medium armor roll-dodges. So why only medium armor is progressively penalized for doing the conceptual thing it's supposed to do for survival? Why stacking shields doesn't cost progressively larger amount of resources? Why heavy armor mitigation doesn't degrade as it mitigates more damage? It'd feel proper if either medium armor wasn't punished for doing the thing it's supposed to do, or was given other ways to mitigate damage.

Minno

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Actually, I would see it as a good start if they removed dodge fatigue for medium armor. To think of it, it's a matter of theme: conceptually, different armor lines have different way of avoiding damage. Heavy armor mitigates. Light armor shields up and stays at range. Medium armor roll-dodges. So why only medium armor is progressively penalized for doing the conceptual thing it's supposed to do for survival? Why stacking shields doesn't cost progressively larger amount of resources? Why heavy armor mitigation doesn't degrade as it mitigates more damage? It'd feel proper if either medium armor wasn't punished for doing the thing it's supposed to do, or was given other ways to mitigate damage.

Medium armor's main pain point was that HA users had better access to WD than medium armor through some really powerful sets.

With jewel traits now able to be transmuted, I think the MA users should wait on gaining any heavy changes until their builds have been matured since the release of Summerset.

I do think the best change would be to swap Forward momentum's immunity duration with shuffle. And then change elude to have no snare removal but grant either more defense or more offense (id say offense).

templesus

Change the 12% weapon damage buff to a flat buff to damage, say 8%.

For each piece of medium armor equipped, decrease damage taken from AOEs by 4%.

Done.

Kilandros

I would give Medium a passive that reduces damage taken while moving. Buff the movement-heavy playstyle that medium is supposed to be about.

John_Falstaff

Actually that's a very interesting idea, about movement. Also very conceptual for the medium armor. I'd very much welcome that.

IAVITNI

Zelos wrote: »

MA is just not in line with the survivability right now THIS IS WHAT I HATE THE MOST instead of buffing medium armor for more damage mitigation in whatever way to make it more viable in PvE and stop Light armor mageblade meta, they will NERF them and screw light armor and magicka over COMPLETELY. I dont want that just raise medium armor and dont bring everything else too it. Raise it up. PvP terms MA needs advantages and disadvantage. While still being in line with other armor weights. A AoE damage mitigation while roll dodging makes sense to me maybe a 10% or 15% while dodging (WHICH SHOULD BE UNCATEGORIZED FUCKK YOU OBLIVION DAMAGE BULLLSHIT). Next should be more damage increase somehow, doesnt matter how. Increasing the 12% adding 2k armor pen whatever. Then shuffle should take a 20% dodge chance or guaranteed miss of the 5th attack at you no matter WHAT THE FUCKK IT IS. And increase the snare immunity to 6 seconds as it it costs almost 4k I want my money's worth.

@ZOS_Wrobel

AoE mitigation should be base. Maybe like 5% to help in PvE. It would than increase to 10% while dodge rolling. AoE mitigation ONLY while dodge rolling is kind of pointless since 1 dodge roll usually gets you out of the AoE anyways.

The value of Forward Momentum is derived from the unique length of Immunity. You are trading the strongest stamina burst heal for mobility. Buffing immunity of shuffle is an indirect nerf to Forward Momentum.. Decreasing the cost of Shuffle or having it return a portion of its cost if it removes a snare would still help increase mobility of MA without encroaching on the strengths of Forward Momentum.

Medium does not need more damage. If anything a buff crit ratings is more in line. Medium Armor is unable to survive right now. This directly compromises DPS because instead of dealing damage, players need to dodge roll or reposition. MA needs to be able to consistently create/find offensive windows before they receive any form of damage buff. Otherwise the spec is likely to be imbalanced, extreme damage in low pressure circumstances or no damage in high pressure. A middle ground needs to be found and Crits should be the biggest factor of variance in medium armor damage.

Emma_Overload

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

John_Falstaff

Once again, it startles me how Shuffle is compared to Harness Magicka without any thought given to how those skills are used in PvE. Shuffle isn't awfully useful in a dungeon or trial (not unless one wants to rely on a skill that randomly saves from a one-shot in one attempt out of seven), while Harness Magicka is pretty much one of staple skills for PvE damage mitigation. When oh when ESO will stop using PvP as a measure of balance.

(End of emotional burst. Move along, nothing to see here. ^^)

Zelos

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

I'm pretty much satisfied with these changes.

Zelos

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

Emma_Overload

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

John_Falstaff

Emma_Overload wrote: »

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

Really, stamina shield in return for a defense that's at the mercy of random number generator? Sounds like a deal. I want. ^^

Zelos

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

LA has way more passives that make it way better I would trade 12% weapon damage for 5k armor pen anytime, it's the reason magicka is at again a way more advantage then stam. My stamplar dps gets 3.8k pen solo, in group with alkosh and infused crusher I get like 11k forcing me to run the lover stone at all times, while magicka gets to run more damage while still at pen cap while being ranged and with shields, and you are telling me you want a RNG defense, rather then a shield thats 100% reliable when you need to absorb damage while I have to pray my shuffle dodges the damage with RNG. Its not a argument those are the facts.

templesus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

I’m sorry I have to ask, have you ever played stamina anything? Because judging by your comments, it seems like you haven’t. And having 5 days played on a stamblade/stamden does not constitute as having played stamina.

Kilandros

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

Medium is considerably weaker than light

ak_pvp

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

Shuffle is definitely a bit underrated. However it is actually weaker on medium than it was on heavy/light, since medium you have to actively avoid making the shuffle dodge null, heavy/light you got more out of evasion because you were attacked directly more and it'd complement the defense rather than overwrite it.

Medium (medium =/ NBs) is indeed weaker than light for the most part, because all the undodgable *** in the game. Whereas shield is near any damage, but scales worse vs more opponents. I don't think shields are OP, nor do they need a nerf (but they do need status effect procs) but the fact that other defenses (bar cloak lmao) get slapped with lots of soft counters that hurt them and shields don't seems telling.

Zelos

In the end medium armor in both instances feels lacking Pve and Pvp. Reduce sneak should definitely be a legerdemain thing, so other armor weights like magicka toons in light armor can do the sneaky game content too and the sneak reduction of medium armor should be changed to something else and shuffles immunity be buffed.

Emma_Overload

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

LA has way more passives that make it way better I would trade 12% weapon damage for 5k armor pen anytime, it's the reason magicka is at again a way more advantage then stam. My stamplar dps gets 3.8k pen solo, in group with alkosh and infused crusher I get like 11k forcing me to run the lover stone at all times, while magicka gets to run more damage while still at pen cap while being ranged and with shields, and you are telling me you want a RNG defense, rather then a shield thats 100% reliable when you need to absorb damage while I have to pray my shuffle dodges the damage with RNG. Its not a argument those are the facts.

Lol, Magicka is not advantaged over Stamina and hasn't been since the DK Bats era of 2014. ALL the top streamers play Stamina builds now, even top Sorcs like Irylia switched to Stamina Warden. Stamina builds, especially Nightblades and Wardens, do more DAMAGE, period. PvP has been dominated by Stamina builds for years. The last thing you guys need or deserve is a bunch of buffs!

Zelos

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

LA has way more passives that make it way better I would trade 12% weapon damage for 5k armor pen anytime, it's the reason magicka is at again a way more advantage then stam. My stamplar dps gets 3.8k pen solo, in group with alkosh and infused crusher I get like 11k forcing me to run the lover stone at all times, while magicka gets to run more damage while still at pen cap while being ranged and with shields, and you are telling me you want a RNG defense, rather then a shield thats 100% reliable when you need to absorb damage while I have to pray my shuffle dodges the damage with RNG. Its not a argument those are the facts.

Lol, Magicka is not advantaged over Stamina and hasn't been since the DK Bats era of 2014. ALL the top streamers play Stamina builds now, even top Sorcs like Irylia switched to Stamina Warden. Stamina builds, especially Nightblades and Wardens, do more DAMAGE, period. PvP has been dominated by Stamina builds for years. The last thing you guys need or deserve is a bunch of buffs!

Apparently you have been out of pvp and pve for a while Magsorcs burst is 80% undodgeable and unblockable. Stam builds arent wanted in PvE. Mag shields cant pro status effects and take the damage for you. Mageblade is one of the top dueling specs right now due to a unmatched burst of a merciless bow hitting a heavy armor build for up to 12k crits. Mag warden is the worst right now Dragonknight as a whole is starting to recover. Magicka templar is a great dueling class but lacks 1vX. Magicka builds lack capability to 1vX with the exception of Magsorc. Stamina just has mobility and that mobility I'd subpar at the moment. If anything this is a magicka meta. PvE groups only want magicka dps, PvP organized groups want destro ult so mageblade and magsorcs for negate or destro. Stamina I'd just better at 1vX barely becuz you feel more free and have a snare immunity, magicka has shields and strong burst. Any decent player would tell you that this is a magicka meta. So stop being so ignorant and actually learn the fuckking game, go play medium armor and run into a zerg and count the seconds of your survival, I guarantee you a magicka sorc would last alot longer due to streak and shields.

Aedaryl

Zelos wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

If you choose armor weight based on it's passives, thinking that these passives will make up for something your build lacks, you are not going to be happy in the long run and sooner, rather than later, the grass is going to look greener somewhere else.

It's generally best to choose an armor weight that emphasizes your individual play style.

People eventually develop their own individual play style. I remember hearing this when I first started the game, and thought "yeah, well my play style is to kill sh** ... what other kind of play style is there? Healer maybe?" [/i]

You don't know what you don't know.
The term 'individual play style' gets tossed around a lot by content creators and by people on the forums. When I first started this game, I thought I understood what that term meant. As it turns out, I didn't.

Back then, I thought 'individual play style' was more like a category, you know, like ganker, healer, tank, dot-build, AOE build, or single target build. It took me well over a year before I began to realize what this 'individual play style' really meant. While it's difficult to describe, I can tell you that it cuts across a variety of builds and a variety of classes. The best example I can give of a well-developed playstyle is @JackDaniell and you can see his videos here: https://youtube.com/user/kristofersommermusic/videos

The point is that once you have developed your own individual play style, then you can create builds that emphasize your individual strengths (which is your particular play style). In creating your build, your selection of armor weight (passives) is important. Too many people view armor passives as a way to make-up for something that they or their build lacks ... while this might make them feel good in the short term, after a while most people end up feeling frustrated and the grass starts to look greener elsewhere (i.e., comparing their preferred armor weight against the other two, then concluding their preferred armor weight needs 'some love').

By the time you've honed in on your individual play style, you should have enough experience in the game to understand the pro's and con's of all armor weight passives AND if you are in a situation where you need to select a sub-optimal armor weight, you will know what work-arounds you need to ensure your overall build is one that truly emphasizes your own individual play style.

The bottom line is this: the good/bad points of each armor weight is subjective; it's an opinion that is heavily weighted (no pun intended) on a person's individual play style ... or perhaps ... not yet having yet discovered it.

My build gets as much survivability as possible, with 28k buffed resistance and 5k crit resistance what can I do when I die against let's say a magsorc who's burst is 80% undodgeable? I cant dodge curse or meteor, I cant dodge rune cage or endless fury execute, I can barely dodge force pulse. So tell me if I have 2 mag sorcs on me what do I do? My playstyle has been the same and I've played medium armor for a while now LoS, roll dodge, and block for a few seconds? So tell me how can I be more effective with so much undodgeable damage? If you didnt know already medium armor survives by LoS and roll dodge, with a occasional block here and there to reduce incoming damage, so if I have 28k resistance and 5k crit resistance. How do i survive against a MagDK and magsorc, dots stuns that go through roll dodge and lots of dots? I cant purge? I cant cloak? All I can do is dodge and LoS all the undodgeable damage and try to out heal it, while avoiding a auto execute. I'm not sure what you are trying to say? My question is how do I survive that? Heavy at least gets some form of extra healing, medium doesnt, some classes get mending, some dont like stamblade our mending was in the forum of cloak which crit all our heals. It's now gone, so how do I survive what is my counter-play?!!?

You can stack as much resistance as you want , you will always die because you don't understand how to play NB.

Get good.

Use cloak and shadow Image.
.
Then you will be able to speak about balance.

templesus

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

LA has way more passives that make it way better I would trade 12% weapon damage for 5k armor pen anytime, it's the reason magicka is at again a way more advantage then stam. My stamplar dps gets 3.8k pen solo, in group with alkosh and infused crusher I get like 11k forcing me to run the lover stone at all times, while magicka gets to run more damage while still at pen cap while being ranged and with shields, and you are telling me you want a RNG defense, rather then a shield thats 100% reliable when you need to absorb damage while I have to pray my shuffle dodges the damage with RNG. Its not a argument those are the facts.

Lol, Magicka is not advantaged over Stamina and hasn't been since the DK Bats era of 2014. ALL the top streamers play Stamina builds now, even top Sorcs like Irylia switched to Stamina Warden. Stamina builds, especially Nightblades and Wardens, do more DAMAGE, period. PvP has been dominated by Stamina builds for years. The last thing you guys need or deserve is a bunch of buffs!

Comments like this prohibit any type of forward thinking in this game and strongly prevent balance progression. I’ll put it nicely; To lump medium armor stamplar/stamsorc/stamdk in the same category as stamblade and stamden, is purely asinine.

Before you or ANYONE for that matter proceed to make biased and unwarranted claims(this is a medium armor buff thread and you clearly don’t play any stamina class yet are speaking on it):

Please play medium armor stamplar stamdk or stamsorc for an extended amount of time solo in cyrodiil.

Silver_Strider

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

Main differences being that Evasion+Morphs are an RNG chance to ignore damage only whereas Harness absorbs all damage, negates crit entirely and prevents status effects, magic builds can already reach pen caps in PvE content with Alkosh/Crushers alone whereas Stamina needs to appoint CP or the Lover to reach similar results, and that Spell Resistance is actually far more useful than Crit resistance because shields already nullify crit entirely.

Your points are so bad that I've just decided to place you on ignore because it's very clear that you have no understanding whatsoever on the current state of Medium Armor and would rather hold whatever Streamers do as gospel and honestly, it's pointless to argue with someone like that.

Ragnaroek93

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

LA has way more passives that make it way better I would trade 12% weapon damage for 5k armor pen anytime, it's the reason magicka is at again a way more advantage then stam. My stamplar dps gets 3.8k pen solo, in group with alkosh and infused crusher I get like 11k forcing me to run the lover stone at all times, while magicka gets to run more damage while still at pen cap while being ranged and with shields, and you are telling me you want a RNG defense, rather then a shield thats 100% reliable when you need to absorb damage while I have to pray my shuffle dodges the damage with RNG. Its not a argument those are the facts.

Lol, Magicka is not advantaged over Stamina and hasn't been since the DK Bats era of 2014. ALL the top streamers play Stamina builds now, even top Sorcs like Irylia switched to Stamina Warden. Stamina builds, especially Nightblades and Wardens, do more DAMAGE, period. PvP has been dominated by Stamina builds for years. The last thing you guys need or deserve is a bunch of buffs!

Get out of my mind! You don't exist, you're just a meme!

Strider__Roshin

templesus wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

Increase the duration of the snare immunity of Shuffle to 4 seconds and reduce the cost down of Evasion abd morphs to ~2500 range.
Revert the Evasion nerf so Major Evasion is back to 20%.
Up the Weapon Damage buff to 14% from 12%.
Add a Crit resistance passive in place of the sneak passives and move the sneak passives over to Legerdemain.

Reasonable enough buffs without being overwhelmingly powerful either. Shuffle gets some minor buffs to it, even if Forward Momentum remains superior for general survivability and snare removal, Medium Armor gets some small QoL uses with the Crit resistance and Damage buffs and everyone benefits from Sneak Passives being moved to Legerdemain.

LOL @ "reasonable buffs". See if you think these are reasonable, too:

1) Reduce cost of Harness Magicka to ~2500 range.
2) Increase size of Harness Magicka damage shield by 33%.
3) Up the Light Armor Spell Penetration bonus from ~5000 to ~5800.
4) Replace Light Armor Spell Resistance passive with Crit Resistance.

If you're OK with Light Armor getting those buffs, then I guess you can have your Medium Armor buffs.

I dont see how this would solve anything, you would just raise the bar up and move everything up more, and medium armor would still have not moved close to other armor weights. LA has so much useful passives, spell resistance, spell pen, reduce cost, mag regen, and a shield which harness I've seen at 9k and dampen at like 11k and some people only use 1 ward onto of healing ward. Some LA only use healing ward and are really good still, LA is in a good spot if that a great spot. Heavy armor is in a good spot to, the only reason people complain about people using SOOO much heavy armor and why its "meta" is because medium armor is becoming less viable so everyone is going heavy armor.

You've kinda missed my point. Medium armor isn't any weaker than Light, and doesn't need to be buffed. Also, I would trade Harness Magicka for Shuffle in a heartbeat.

LA has way more passives that make it way better I would trade 12% weapon damage for 5k armor pen anytime, it's the reason magicka is at again a way more advantage then stam. My stamplar dps gets 3.8k pen solo, in group with alkosh and infused crusher I get like 11k forcing me to run the lover stone at all times, while magicka gets to run more damage while still at pen cap while being ranged and with shields, and you are telling me you want a RNG defense, rather then a shield thats 100% reliable when you need to absorb damage while I have to pray my shuffle dodges the damage with RNG. Its not a argument those are the facts.

Lol, Magicka is not advantaged over Stamina and hasn't been since the DK Bats era of 2014. ALL the top streamers play Stamina builds now, even top Sorcs like Irylia switched to Stamina Warden. Stamina builds, especially Nightblades and Wardens, do more DAMAGE, period. PvP has been dominated by Stamina builds for years. The last thing you guys need or deserve is a bunch of buffs!

Comments like this prohibit any type of forward thinking in this game and strongly prevent balance progression. I’ll put it nicely; To lump medium armor stamplar/stamsorc/stamdk in the same category as stamblade and stamden, is purely asinine.

Before you or ANYONE for that matter proceed to make biased and unwarranted claims(this is a medium armor buff thread and you clearly don’t play any stamina class yet are speaking on it):

Please play medium armor stamplar stamdk or stamsorc for an extended amount of time solo in cyrodiil.

@templesus you're trying to rationalize with someone who mains a magsorc, think magsorcs aren't that strong, and everything stamina is OP.

I think it's safe to say you can stop wasting your breath lol

acw37162

deleted

SilverWF

Medium armor is a king in the PVP now and in PVE that guys provides sht ton of DPS
What are you talking about?

acw37162

Reduce the cost of shuffle.
Increase the snare immunity to 1 second per piece of MA equipped.

Offer a morph of shuffle that is basically a parry, dodge all attacks in window of time, so it could be used in much the same way as a shield, give it a restriction of cancelled by any attack. Counter Play, useful in PVP and PVE, both morphs have uses and relevance.

Add to one of the passive abilities + X % damage to attack following a parry with 100% crit chance with full passive purchase 2 -3 skill points. ( since Nightblades burst comes out of stealth this would not be a direct buff to Nightblades but still a buff to medium keeping with MA current theme and consistency)

Also the poster who talked about roll dodge and sprint returning stamina is brilliant.

Also, maybe a passive for defense buff increased dodge chance while sprinting (edit)

or

5 medium pieces gets you minor evasion
7 medium pieces gets you major evasion passive

SilverWF

How about 'no'?
We constantly meets medium armored guys who can dodge roll all day long and deal freaking amount of damage at the same time