Buff to medium armor?

John_Falstaff

@jbjondeaueb17_ESO - vHoF, yes, will allow you partially stamina groups. vHRC too, but I was speaking about vHRC HM, it's quite different in mechanics from usual vet HRC, and it's not very melee friendly since you have to stack between rows of statues, and adds are often out of reach (and you can't leave the group because you may get targeted, and that means more adds in your hair in latter phase). Range plays huge role there.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@jbjondeaueb17_ESO - vHoF, yes, will allow you partially stamina groups. vHRC too, but I was speaking about vHRC HM, it's quite different in mechanics from usual vet HRC, and it's not very melee friendly since you have to stack between rows of statues, and adds are often out of reach (and you can't leave the group because you may get targeted, and that means more adds in your hair in latter phase). Range plays huge role there.

I was only speaking HM, I mostly only do them, and usually, for stamina players to be able to hit the boss, it's a tank matter. And after a few statues you don't even care anymore, you burst the main boss and let the off-tank playing Benny Hill with the other gargoyles at the entrance of the trial.

John_Falstaff

Hm-m, did it work consistently for you? Only a few eliminated statues must be quite a work for the off tank, that's a huge crowd to kite, and guilds I've seen are mostly trying to get down as many as possible before they come alive (I think it's possible to get around three of them in the end with good coordination). And yes, off tank can walk the already awakened adds to the stacked group, but again, not always happens (again, ranged magicka just gives more freedom here), and takes good use of negate when they start stomping.

But not to lead the discussion astray, struggle in vAS and vCR is already a show-stopper, I'd say; if a build is excluded from latest chunk of game content, that means it's not viable.

SilverWF

John_Falstaff wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Not, it IS powerful. That was my goal from the start: to give YOU understanding, that not armor is a problem, but MECHS.

And I've answered to that guy, I has no any will to repeat myself again, while ruining all your arguments.

Just to make it short:
1. Stamina DDs are extremely good in PVE and PVP and now equal or even better than mag DDs
2. Even little buff to stamina specs would completely ruin PVP
3. Main problem is mechs, not the armor

Try to beat this, totally sure, you wouldn't.

So-o, to summarize your point, stamina is powerful but mechanics prevent it from showing its power? You see, in my book, power isn't a number on a dummy - it's ability to solve problems game sets before builds. If a build can only show itself well on training dummy but struggles in end game scenarios - it can't be called powerful, I'm afraid.

As for your points, then I'm not sure what's to beat here.

1. I'm not sure where your "extremely good" comes from. Dummy? Non-DLC vet dungeons? RP, maybe?
2. Not the point of current discussion. Not sure why you brought it here; I wasn't arguing that to begin with.
3. Armor is one of possible ways of dealing with mechs, being inherently a part of combat mechanics. I've asked you to come up with your own suggestions, but I fear I won't get anything constructive. Everyone respecing to bow/bow doesn't count since then magicka builds outperform those builds while retaining better survivability. Anything else?

Man, can you read or think?
Not stamina, omg, how many times I need to repeat this? Answer please, how many times ppl need to repeat the same things for you to let you finally get it?

Again, one more time - last one - not stamina, but being in close range!

There is a bow builds, who doing just fine as any range "mag DD" and has no survivability issues for an obvious reason. But Hey, how's that possible? They are staminers omg, something is wrong!
Buff all lazy medium armor wearers asap, because they didn't want to farm gear and learn to play.

P.S. Your arguments aren't valid btw. Seems like you just didn't want to read, only mindlessly cry " BUFF ME!!!!!! OMG ASAP!!!!"

Zelos

As alot of us having been staying before and it would be amazing if people read it, the problem with stamina dps is not the actual dps it's the survivability of it. A stamina dps is melee, no shields, and it can die a lot faster. Magicka is ranged, can shield, and has the same dps. So why would a group pick stamina if magicka is literally better since a magicka dps wouldnt die as much as a stamina dps. It's not really a argument a dead dps does NO DPS.

John_Falstaff

SilverWF wrote: »

Man, can you read or think?
Not stamina, omg, how many times I need to repeat this? Answer please, how many times ppl need to repeat the same things for you to let you finally get it?

Again, one more time - last one - not stamina, but being in close range!

There is a bow builds, who doing just fine as any range "mag DD" and has no survivability issues for an obvious reason. But Hey, how's that possible? They are staminers omg, something is wrong!
Buff all lazy medium armor wearers asap, because they didn't want to farm gear and learn to play.

P.S. Your arguments aren't valid btw. Seems like you just didn't want to read, only mindlessly cry " BUFF ME!!!!!! OMG ASAP!!!!"

I'm sorry, I'll not be responding to personal jibes, just don't want to waste time. Bow/bow builds is a DPS loss compared to melee, and melee itself (much as you've so helpfully demonstrated earlier from own experience) is toe to toe with ranged magicka damage-wise. Transitively, bow/bow builds are inferior to magicka damage-wise, and, unlike magicka in light armor, lack shields (there goes your argument about lack of survivability issues). I've made that point earlier, not sure why you overlooked it.

So to summarize, the only suggestion you offer for stamina is to switch to bow/bow builds, even though you're told they're not viable next to ranged magicka, and you can't or don't want to come up with any other ideas. Well, thank you for contribution.

Amdar_Godkiller

Beamer_Miasma wrote: »

Maybe the reason ZoS doesn't listen to these proposals is that every single "buff medium armor" thread I have seen proposes to nerf the sneak passive. You should poke your head out of the BGs and Cyr sometime and realize that the number of people who sneak around in full med is larger, likely not just in percentages but by orders of magnitude, than the entire PvP population on your server. As long as your buff medium armor proposals include the suggestion to remove the sneak passive, ZoS is going to send your proposal straight to /dev/null where it belongs.

Try coming up with an idea that doesn't actually mean a nerf to the majority of medium armor characters and who knows, they might be a little more receptive. The sneak passive is the raison d'etre for medium armor. Without it, there really isn't much of a point to have more than 2 armor weights other than ES tradition which is probably not that big a factor in ZoSes considerations.

Sneak cost is nothing, and it's cheaper to get it from legerdemain anyway. A stam build will never run out of stam from sneaking. It doesn't happen.

Jahirmoth

It's hard to buff medium armor without making Stamina NB extremely strong. I think that's the reason why they won't do it. I completely understand that. Stamina NB simply doesn't need any buffs in its current state. I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise.

Medium still needs some kind of buff for other stamina classes. I'm not denying that. They just have to be careful with what they plan to introduce.

Oh and I'm talking about PvP.

Strider__Roshin

When it comes to damage, I would like to see the vMA bow get nerfed to the point where it only gives an additional 2k DPS, and I would also like to see Relequen to have a comparable nerf then reevaluate stamina DPS then. Truthfully with identical gear stam should be doing 20% more damage than mag due to the limitation and high risk of being within melee range in conjunction with the lack of damage shields.

Right now stam is being carried by vMA bow and Relequen. It is not naturally powerful, and is way too squishy both in pve, and PvP.

Silver_Strider

While it is true that buffing medium armor is an indirect buff to NB, there needs to be SOMETHING done to help out Melee Stamina builds in terms of survivability in PvE content without being a huge buff in PvP.

Things like making Circle of Protection actually viable for Stamina builds would go a long way in doing this.

• Circle of Protection - Add a HoT to it, increase the radius to 8m and greatly reduce its cost to, at least, the ~3600 range
  1. Ring of Preservation - Increase the HoT potency
  2. Turn Undead - Add a DoT to all enemies with greater damage to WW, Undead, Vampires that enter the Circle.

Just like that, the skill actually has a purpose now in PvE content as it would still have its current effects of Minor Protection and Minor Endurance but the increased radius as well as HoT would greatly improve Melee Survivability making it very useful overall and with the reduced cost, it won't be a huge hassle to maintain it either. Ofc, there are other Stamina skills that could be touched upon to make them more viable and improve survivability as well but it would be a start.

Also, as I stated earlier in the thread, I would have the sneak passives from Medium Armor moved to Legerdemain so as to offer a different buff to Medium Armor survivability, which I initially suggested Crit resist but was told that would be too limited in scope, so how about a 400 Physical/Spell resistance buff per medium armor piece for 5 seconds after Dodge Rolling instead? At most, you're looking at 2800 resistance with 7 Medium for dodging, which is admittedly a fair bit but is really just a minor buff overall. The main reason I feel this suggestion wouldn't be a huge buff to Stamblade in PvP is mostly because if a Stamblade needs to get away for whatever reason, the resistance buff is mostly pointless since they'll dodge roll into cloak which is the best form of mitigation anyway for a Stamina build but this would help all other Stamina builds when they dodge by giving them a slight buffer to their main (and really only) form of defense while also being somewhat useful in PvE content as well.

One final thing I'd like to talk about is Evasion. Since Medium Armor's entire premise is movement and dodging, I feel this ability is currently lacking in general. I had suggested that Shuffle get a longer snare duration and I still stand by that decision but I would like for Evasion to get snare removal added to its base effect with 2 seconds of immunity. Shuffle would get an additional .5 second per piece of Medium Armor equip for a grand total of 5.5 seconds of snare immunity in 7 pieces of Medium Armor while Elude is completely reworked to reduce the cost of Dodge Rolling. Even with this suggestion, Forward Momentum would still be superior due to its longer duration, cheaper cost and HoT but at least Evasion+morphs become more useful in general without being immediately over the top either and enables both morph being viable choices in PvP, whereas Shuffle is currently the only useful morph option and is still fairly lackluster.

Toc de Malsvi

Daus wrote: »

When it comes to damage, I would like to see the vMA bow get nerfed to the point where it only gives an additional 2k DPS, and I would also like to see Relequen to have a comparable nerf then reevaluate stamina DPS then. Truthfully with identical gear stam should be doing 20% more damage than mag due to the limitation and high risk of being within melee range in conjunction with the lack of damage shields.

Right now stam is being carried by vMA bow and Relequen. It is not naturally powerful, and is way too squishy both in pve, and PvP.

The VMA bow already only increases your dps by around 2k or less:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8BlqDZf2uM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgl5rDYMzmA

Beamer_Miasma

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Beamer_Miasma wrote: »

Maybe the reason ZoS doesn't listen to these proposals is that every single "buff medium armor" thread I have seen proposes to nerf the sneak passive. You should poke your head out of the BGs and Cyr sometime and realize that the number of people who sneak around in full med is larger, likely not just in percentages but by orders of magnitude, than the entire PvP population on your server. As long as your buff medium armor proposals include the suggestion to remove the sneak passive, ZoS is going to send your proposal straight to /dev/null where it belongs.

Try coming up with an idea that doesn't actually mean a nerf to the majority of medium armor characters and who knows, they might be a little more receptive. The sneak passive is the raison d'etre for medium armor. Without it, there really isn't much of a point to have more than 2 armor weights other than ES tradition which is probably not that big a factor in ZoSes considerations.

Sneak cost is nothing, and it's cheaper to get it from legerdemain anyway. A stam build will never run out of stam from sneaking. It doesn't happen.

Haha, srsly. It's not about running out of stamina, it's about how much you have left when you run into trouble. Does this really need to be explained? This is like saying a man in a desert only needs to carry one gulp of water because that's enough to wet his tongue.

SilverWF

John_Falstaff wrote: »

SilverWF wrote: »

Man, can you read or think?
Not stamina, omg, how many times I need to repeat this? Answer please, how many times ppl need to repeat the same things for you to let you finally get it?

Again, one more time - last one - not stamina, but being in close range!

There is a bow builds, who doing just fine as any range "mag DD" and has no survivability issues for an obvious reason. But Hey, how's that possible? They are staminers omg, something is wrong!
Buff all lazy medium armor wearers asap, because they didn't want to farm gear and learn to play.

P.S. Your arguments aren't valid btw. Seems like you just didn't want to read, only mindlessly cry " BUFF ME!!!!!! OMG ASAP!!!!"

I'm sorry, I'll not be responding to personal jibes, just don't want to waste time. Bow/bow builds is a DPS loss compared to melee, and melee itself (much as you've so helpfully demonstrated earlier from own experience) is toe to toe with ranged magicka damage-wise. Transitively, bow/bow builds are inferior to magicka damage-wise, and, unlike magicka in light armor, lack shields (there goes your argument about lack of survivability issues). I've made that point earlier, not sure why you overlooked it.

So to summarize, the only suggestion you offer for stamina is to switch to bow/bow builds, even though you're told they're not viable next to ranged magicka, and you can't or don't want to come up with any other ideas. Well, thank you for contribution.

Mag DK and Templars are suffering too.

Buff light armor!!!!

Zelos

Still need this

mr_wazzabi

Zelos wrote: »

shinikaze wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Zelos wrote: »

I enjoy medium armor but I feel like I'm suffocating in it. PvE and PvP the shuffle needs at least 4 to 5 seconds

You get 23 seconds of major evasion, which is very powerful and long lasting. You're not supposed to re-cast shuffle every 2.5 seconds, the snare and immobilization immunity is extremely powerful in PvP, and you're not supposed to have that up permanently. You asking for perma-immunity to snares and immobilization is way out of balance.

And this ability works at its full power under battlespirit, whereas light armor shield is cut in half for PvP, which is something you forget to mention. Unless you're a shield stacking sorc, that light armor shield is worth nothing in PvP, and I'll happily trade it for a 23 second passive dodge chance and 2.5 seconds of snare and immobilization immunity.

Medium armor is perfectly fine and on par with light armor. Of course you get better survivability from heavy, that's what heavy armor is for. And you also lose a lot of damage potential. The choice is yours.

I don't really want a defensive mechanic based on chance.
In my opinion Major/minor evasion should be gone. make the base effect of the ability to remove snares and reduce effect of incoming snares by 50% for 10~15 secs.
Then one morph would add 4.5 sec of snare inmunity +0.5 per medium armor piece .
The other morph would add minor/major expedition.

If anything the dodge chance for shuffle is 15% I want no percentages. I want every 4 attacks dodge the 5th one, way more skill in 1v1 and 1vX to do that as each side can count and make the 5th attack always miss. You can predict what will miss and if you make a mistake its your fault, no RNG CRAPP.

@ZOS_Wrobel

This is actually a great suggestion that rewards skilled gameplay.

@ZOS_GinaBruno can you pass this suggestion to the relevant people?

@masel92 what do you think?

Nicko_Lps

Stamina is Best PVE+PVP dps. Why exactly you need a medium armor buff?
Lets say for increasing your overall dps from magica users to 20%? Its like 10%+ now.
Or you want to simply 1shot people on pvp while running around with 160% speed healing yourself around walls?


Stamina needs a serious nerf, Heavy armor stamina in pvp needs an even MORE serious nerf.

technohic

Only thing medium armor needs is for shuffle to get the duration of FM for root/snare immunity and possible FM then get the duration shuffle has now.

Then we seem to have more raw damage 5 piece heavy armor sets in heavy (ravager, truth, 7th, etc) than in medium.

olsborg

Baconlad wrote: »

I will say it's incredibly sad that I fear to dodge roll as a medium stamplar just as much as I fear dodge rolling as a heavy stamplar.

Does a magsorc fear casting her shields? And magplar fear spamming her HTD? Or a magblade fear spamming cloak? So why does a medium user have to absolutely fear dodge spamming when half the skills are undodgable anyway and you are only mitigating damage WHILE u are dodging...cloak lasts for seconds, shields last six, HTD is instant but heals to full. Dodge roll spam was supposed to be how stamina SURVIVED. We were supposed to be squishy while dealing damage and unhittabke when we wanted to be.

Partial agree from me here,

technohic wrote: »

Only thing medium armor needs is for shuffle to get the duration of FM for root/snare immunity and possible FM then get the duration shuffle has now.

Then we seem to have more raw damage 5 piece heavy armor sets in heavy (ravager, truth, 7th, etc) than in medium.

This is a great suggestion imo.

Nicko_Lps

technohic wrote: »

Only thing medium armor needs is for shuffle to get the duration of FM for root/snare immunity and possible FM then get the duration shuffle has now.

Then we seem to have more raw damage 5 piece heavy armor sets in heavy (ravager, truth, 7th, etc) than in medium.

Agree but dont forget the 15% wep dmg passive of med armor can be applied while you use 3x jewelery + wep of (ravager, truth, 7th, etc) + medium armor 5 piece.

Wep dmg passive?
Cost redct passive?
Stam rec passive?
roll cost reduction passive?
wep crit passive?
mobility passive?

Cmon mate, you really like those ones dont forget them next to suffle.

John_Falstaff

@Nicko_Lps , stamina is best PvE dps? Say... when it was last time when you've taken a look at leaderboards? ^^ Stamina is a liability nowadays, and in part because survivability of melee in medium armor (magDKs - even light, in fact) is low, and melee damage plummets in mobile fights (and that's what you have in new trials).

Maryal

Zelos wrote: »

In the end medium armor in both instances feels lacking Pve and Pvp. Reduce sneak should definitely be a legerdemain thing, so other armor weights like magicka toons in light armor can do the sneaky game content too and the sneak reduction of medium armor should be changed to something else and shuffles immunity be buffed.

Medium armor is fine where it is. When you said "...so other armor weights like magicka toons in light armor can do the sneaky game content too ..." is really what this whole thing boils down to. People who don't want to wear medium armor in order to get the medium armor (sneak) passive.

Let's assume that 'sneaky game content' you refer to is pve content. Here's an easy solution: wear some medium armor while doing that sneaky pve content. Problem solved. No need to change the game for that.

Let's assume that the 'sneaky game content' means pvp ganking. Well, if that's the case, then wear medium armor and your problem is solved, ummm, that is unless the real motivation behind the 'suggestion' is to nerf one of the biggest defenses medium armor wearers have ... if so, then this would hurt medium armor wearers in both pve and pvp.

No matter what the attempt is to rationalize it, any change to any of the medium armor passives is simply unreasonable.

John_Falstaff

@Maryal , I didn't understand your reasoning; how, again, taking sneaking passives out of armor line would hurt MA in PvE and why it's one of the biggest defenses there?

Nicko_Lps

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Nicko_Lps , stamina is best PvE dps? Say... when it was last time when you've taken a look at leaderboards? ^^ Stamina is a liability nowadays, and in part because survivability of melee in medium armor (magDKs - even light, in fact) is low, and melee damage plummets in mobile fights (and that's what you have in new trials).

Magica slots shield to survive, if you dont slot suffle to survive means youre tanky enough. If you think you are not tanky enough slot suffle as light armor slot magica harness.

Best dps atm ingame is nightblade.
Stamblade has more dps output from its magica spec
Stamsorc more from its magica spec
stamdk has more dps output with 10x easyer rotation from its mag spec

If you exclude stamblade which is pretty much the same or a tad easier than magblade, the res classes stamina versions have a higher dps output and alot easier rotation to deal with. Specially when it comes to dk's, magDK feels like playing 3 stamDK's at the same time, My first dps parse on stamdk on test was 45k.

Bla bla bla bla bla.

Stamina is WAY better, you like it or not.
In cyrodiil its even alot better alot tankier and alot easier to survive with so many rolls+vigors+rally's AND a major defile nerf to make that stamtank heavy armor dawnbreaker tank entirely noob friendly for the ex skyrim players of ESO.

Want an extra touch of op-ness medium armor passive maybe to fulfill your expectations?

John_Falstaff

@Nicko_Lps , slot Shuffle? I'll just ask for clarity - are we still speaking PvE here? When did you last see a DPS in medium armor slotting Shuffle in PvE content? Unlike Harness, it's simply useless there. If you're in a boss' AoE, you have to roll, because, while you can calculate how much your shields would absorb and react accordingly, you cannot rely on being only being 85% dead. You're not Schrödinger's DPS.

Also, why are you talking DPS output on a dummy while I'm pointing you to real use cases in group content? Or is PvE now all about highest parses on dummies, not about dungeons and trials? Did you try to reproduce your stam parse in Cloudrest? (I tried. Good luck with that, just in case.)

So, your "stamina is way better" is en empty claim. You're talking about dummy fights, not about actual PvE. But I can easily see that PvE appears to be about that in eyes of players who never go out of Cyrodiil.

Nicko_Lps

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Nicko_Lps , slot Shuffle? I'll just ask for clarity - are we still speaking PvE here? When did you last see a DPS in medium armor slotting Shuffle in PvE content? Unlike Harness, it's simply useless there. If you're in a boss' AoE, you have to roll, because, while you can calculate how much your shields would absorb and react accordingly, you cannot rely on being only being 85% dead. You're not Schrödinger's DPS.

Also, why are you talking DPS output on a dummy while I'm pointing you to real use cases in group content? Or is PvE now all about highest parses on dummies, not about dungeons and trials? Did you try to reproduce your stam parse in Cloudrest? (I tried. Good luck with that, just in case.)

So, your "stamina is way better" is en empty claim. You're talking about dummy fights, not about actual PvE. But I can easily see that PvE appears to be about that in eyes of players who never go out of Cyrodiil.

Stamina is way better, slot suffle and replace rending slashes with vigor. What is your problem then?
Dont tell me melee range, nowadays even magsorcs have to play melee to have their best dps output. ESO we are all melee.

As about your ironic comment on PVP, i do not like how ESO pve works. I have endless WoW logs with top EU parses in mythic raiding and heroic and not by using a spammable 2 buffs and 3 skills my dear pve expert friend.

So what is the balancing factor you need for your stamina to be as good as magica?

John_Falstaff

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As about your ironic comment on PVP, i do not like how ESO pve works. I have endless WoW logs with top EU parses in mythic raiding and heroic and not by using a spammable 2 buffs and 3 skills my dear pve expert friend.

Well, that sums it up on the matter what kind of ESO PvE expert you are. It also explains your fascinating ideas on how shuffle is a viable defense in PvE and that dummy parses is a representative benchmark of real class/spec performance in endgame content. It's not that you don't like how ESO PvE works. You don't even know how it works. Your statements are so far removed from reality (magsorcs, have to play melee? in dungeons? in trials? seriously?) that I'm not even sure if I should try to explain just how far.

> So what is the balancing factor you need for your stamina to be as good as magica?

You might've misread me. I wasn't proposing anything. I was responding to your rather amusing statements you've made about the state of stamina in PvE, apparently based on your distaste for PvE in ESO and rich experience of PvE in WoW. I meant to say that it's amusing, but utterly uninformed. You've actually just demonstrated it better than I ever could hope. So... I've no more questions. Thankyouverymuch. ^^

Nicko_Lps

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

As about your ironic comment on PVP, i do not like how ESO pve works. I have endless WoW logs with top EU parses in mythic raiding and heroic and not by using a spammable 2 buffs and 3 skills my dear pve expert friend.

Well, that sums it up on the matter what kind of ESO PvE expert you are. It also explains your fascinating ideas on how shuffle is a viable defense in PvE and that dummy parses is a representative benchmark of real class/spec performance in endgame content. It's not that you don't like how ESO PvE works. You don't even know how it works. Your statements are so far removed from reality (magsorcs, have to play melee? in dungeons? in trials? seriously?) that I'm not even sure if I should try to explain just how far.

> So what is the balancing factor you need for your stamina to be as good as magica?

You might've misread me. I wasn't proposing anything. I was responding to your rather amusing statements you've made about the state of stamina in PvE, apparently based on your distaste for PvE in ESO and rich experience of PvE in WoW. I meant to say that it's amusing, but utterly uninformed. You've actually just demonstrated it better than I ever could hope. So... I've no more questions. Thankyouverymuch. ^^

When magsorcs and magblades are using zaan they are melee range, Or zaan is 30 meter and i dont know it yet?

Ive been performing top EU in bosses with 30 mechanics,separate for healers/tanks/melee/rdps, its like 13 mechanics on your cloudrest+3 boi or less? If you think im amusing to you, imagine how amusing ex-skyrim LA players are to me when they go pro in ESO pve or pvp.

When magica slots a defensive and stamina does not need one makes them tankier and more survivable by deafult, you like it or not its reality.

John_Falstaff

@Nicko_Lps , what can I say - one other example of how uninformed you are is the assumption that Zaan is widely used in PvE outside of cheesing up dummy parses (the only magicka Zaan is good for in day-to-day use is MagDK, since the spec is melee anyway).

And no. When magicka has a defensive and slots it, and stamina does not have a defensive skill (because Shuffle is useless in PvE), that makes them undesirable in endgame content. Hard proof of which you'll see on leaderboards, whether you like it or not. It's fascinating how one can build a castle in the air out of logical fallacy: "you don't slot defensive skill, therefore you don't need one".

Chilly-McFreeze

Nicko_Lps wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Nicko_Lps , slot Shuffle? I'll just ask for clarity - are we still speaking PvE here? When did you last see a DPS in medium armor slotting Shuffle in PvE content? Unlike Harness, it's simply useless there. If you're in a boss' AoE, you have to roll, because, while you can calculate how much your shields would absorb and react accordingly, you cannot rely on being only being 85% dead. You're not Schrödinger's DPS.

Also, why are you talking DPS output on a dummy while I'm pointing you to real use cases in group content? Or is PvE now all about highest parses on dummies, not about dungeons and trials? Did you try to reproduce your stam parse in Cloudrest? (I tried. Good luck with that, just in case.)

So, your "stamina is way better" is en empty claim. You're talking about dummy fights, not about actual PvE. But I can easily see that PvE appears to be about that in eyes of players who never go out of Cyrodiil.

Stamina is way better, slot suffle and replace rending slashes with vigor. What is your problem then?
Dont tell me melee range, nowadays even magsorcs have to play melee to have their best dps output. ESO we are all melee.

As about your ironic comment on PVP, i do not like how ESO pve works. I have endless WoW logs with top EU parses in mythic raiding and heroic and not by using a spammable 2 buffs and 3 skills my dear pve expert friend.

So what is the balancing factor you need for your stamina to be as good as magica?

Can someone give ma tl;dr? Is this thread full of such statements or is there anything to gain from reading through it?

StamWhipCultist

Issue is, if zenimax buff medium armor, that will be great buff for NBs in PvP, especially in nonCP game modes.
That will result in even more ppl crying for nerfs for NB and result in bitterness, anger and hate.