Thraben wrote: »

Aliyavana wrote: »

What class synergizes best with ww?

After the patch? StamDKs. They´re used to have a crappy Dragonblood as main self "heal". Take away Vigor, and let people decide whether they want a self heal OR Major Brutality OR Major Defile, and you have the new improved Werewolf, full of meaningful choices others don´t have to make

Plus: You don´t have to think any longer about how to activate Troll King! Finally our self heal is weak enough that we stay under 50% life after using it twice!

Lol

The heal based on max health is interesting seeing as both Aeiled wells and food can boost your max health for a fair duration, those alongside HP stat and HP gear could boost the heal significantly.

Just to reiterate, based on past ZOS feedback it seems that they are trying to move players away from max stam/mag to make us hybridise more, be that a glass cannon stam+mag or a healthy hybrid stam/mag+hp (Note that thos applies to all classes to reduce the min/maxers and to make new player and custom builds more viable.)

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'm indifferent to the heal nerf. The rest of the rework is such a gigantic increase to werewolves' big issues that a small nerf was likely required. It's not that large of a nerf, opens up build combinations (i.e. deconning my *** pelinal's) and provides WW way better group utility.


6 man fear is gigantic.

If it’s effected by battle spirit then it’s terrible now.

With Pelinial I have a 20k tooltip heal.

So 10k in pvp. With 27k health if affected then it drops to 6.1k.

Well, it means you should go Hircine's Fortitude now with 27k health it'll be a 9k heal. You lose 10% dmg buff for Hircine's Rage in favor of being able to use a completely different 5pc main that is non-pelinal's. I don't know how to impress upon you how this is actually a giant buff.

So the build I’ve been using and playing with almost daily for over a year gets a 10% Damage Nerf and a 1k heal nerf in pvp. How is that a buff again? Or do I just take Pelinial off for plague doctor to get my heal back? Then lose magic and Stam Regen?

Bruh, this isn't mental gymnastics.

Want more healing? Throw on order of Diagna. Bam, your heal becomes like 10% stronger than current on live in favor of having more HP a the expense of 2 regen lines.

Want more damage? Throw on Truth. You lose 12-13% and two regen lines healing in favor of having significantly more damage.

Want more sustain? Equip Willow's or Shackle.

Want more tank? Equip fortibrass or Trial by Fire.

The WW baseline has been increased significantly and untethers it from pelinal's. If you can't see the value on that then I have nothing else to say.

Order of diagna is a garbage set. You'd be better off with TBS using the ritual. Nobody in their right mind would use Diagna. Just stop, man, you're making yourself look stupid.

Yeah, Order is bad.

You know what's worse than Order on PTS? Pelinal's WW. Unless you have anything that requires more than two braincells to add please don't bother coming at me sideways.

Pelinal's gives max health, mag recovery and stam recovery which makes it better than most of the sets you mentioned actually.

Willow's is also a garbage set, FWIW. But feel free to dumb down the community as much as you'd like.

WP gives you all three recoveries, which works well with TK and/or bone pirate, and will work especially well next patch. The only advantage Pelinal’s will soon offer is the 1 health bonus, which can be replaced from any number of sources. Plus WP will let you use your heal more.

Maybe don’t contribute to the discussion if you can’t be polite and need to demean everyone who doesn’t share your opinion.

Really feel like allowing Werewolf to have a taunt would add a lot more fun to it. The current changes are not really breath taking its still a dps class and nothing more. Still has a limited ultimate and over all will not be used much at all. What harm is there in allowing them to tank as well?

So I’ve played around on PTS and Devour is ‘better’, but still buggy/ hard to use. Furthermore, the timer is just bad, even if you’re non-stop attacking you run out—especially in PVP if you’re chasing an opponent or fending off multiples ones with CC, etc.

Timer absolutely needs to be adjusted. Also, and hugely important, the bug where you spontaneously lose your form has not been addressed in this PTS cycle. I can’t figure out what triggers it other than possibly CCs and snares.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Also, and hugely important, the bug where you spontaneously lose your form has not been addressed in this PTS cycle.

This! I've mentioned it in the WW feedback threads as well. ZOS says they fixed it, so it's fixed - but it is not. And it's random so you never know when it's going to happen making it difficult to report - especially since it often happens right in the middle of a boss fight.

@Lordwolfie

I've mentioned a taunt elsewhere, too. A taunt would allow it to be more like the templar tag team situation (which is one of my favourite play styles for a duo). With just two werewolves you could taunt back and forth and allow the other player a breather, perhaps to go 'grab a snack' or whatever they need to do to maintain werewolf, heal up, or whatever else.

A taunt would allow juggling between werewolves with any number of werewolves above 1. Even if it's just two werewolves, the taunt would grant them both more control over how they play. I've mentioned before that I really feel that werewolves need this. Not to tank, necessarily, but to juggle.

Honestly, there's a lot of things that werewolf needs that they didn't do, though. I don't think a single patch has ever killed my enthusiasm for a game so much, it's honestly spectacular. They built up my hype with Werewolf hunter and those marvellously monstrous new behemoths, whispering promises of a new werewolf model rather than the poorly made one that looks like pre-2005 era graphics in a 2018 game; They built up hype with the werewolf representatives allowing us to think like things such as the taunt and making werewolf a toggle might actually make it into the game; They didn't do anything to dissuade this...

And now here we are. The thread about werewolves pulling 50k DPS and holding perma-form that way is going to give people false hope, too. That's going to get nerfed into the ground, with gleeful reproach and abandon.

Sigh.

I honestly thought I could trust ZOS more than this.

Koolio wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

PapaWeeb wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'm indifferent to the heal nerf. The rest of the rework is such a gigantic increase to werewolves' big issues that a small nerf was likely required. It's not that large of a nerf, opens up build combinations (i.e. deconning my *** pelinal's) and provides WW way better group utility.


6 man fear is gigantic.

If it’s effected by battle spirit then it’s terrible now.

With Pelinial I have a 20k tooltip heal.

So 10k in pvp. With 27k health if affected then it drops to 6.1k.

Yes but is that including the benefits you get from swapping pelinal's to a different set? Increasing your max health to increase the heal will give you more baseline tankiness, or another defensive set to reduce incoming damage, making a bigger heal less necessary.

I don’t want to walk around with 50k health just to heal myself when outnumbered.

Any defensive set to reduce damage isn’t going to keep me alive when 3-4 people jump on me. You know what does keep me alive. A decent heal. Only way to get out of execution range when 3 Mag sorcs are spamming execute.

I would like to see a video of your 25K HP WW Pelinal’s build soaking 3-4 (competent) sorcs in PVP. That heal ain’t gonna save you, Sweetie. A combo of Impregnable, Reactive and Trollking/Earthgore probably will. I know because I’ve personally suvived zergs with that combo. But that’s about it.

This should help with that. You can survive zergs wearing two defensive set but can you kill them also. I’ll also go find all the saved clips I have for better examples. First few minutes are decent for showcasing.

At 7min I get incapped and put at 2k health. While defiled I get a 12k plus heal saving my life. I also kill someone with a 10k howl while getting meteor. I do have 30k health in this build but was from before Summerset and Jewelry trait changes


https://youtu.be/fHDtlaseuW0

First: In the group you and your two friends are fighting, there’s a level 14 and a CP 588. So they’re not at cap, and they’re mostly spastic and clueless (this is often true of most 1vX—my stuff included). Second: You’re bolstering your heals with Bogan (fun WW heal set, use it on my NB, but still); you are not ‘healing’ via your WW heal alone. That’s not even close to the example you mentioned and I’m not about to watch a full 20m of that nonsense, sorry. 5m was enough. Third: You could have been far tankier with any of the sets I’ve mentioned—and will be next patch—without all the needless chicken-charging and running in circles, around rocks, etc.

I’ll post some face-tank and kill WW build vids before WH launches. Still between places atm and don’t have all my gear.

Just adding my initial feedback too!

I LOVE the change to Devour. I am really happy it unlocks automatically now, that makes much more sense, and it was a bit of a chore having to grind werewolf on new characters to reach devour to begin levelling the other skills.

The tracking for the option is so much better now, its way easier to target and feed. I like the new visual that shows you can devour a corpse. And I love that it is a channel, seems to work flawlessly right now!

I also love the new animation for running! Where we can run on all fours, normally only while sprinting, but now also in normal running speed after stopping sprinting. Very nice touch!

I am aware that this is my first (I think) forum post I have ever made but please at least give it a read. This is mostly PvE focused as I have little PvP experience, but I would like to share a wall of text that is my two cents regarding WW changes.

Likes:
I appreciate the new Devour overall. I find it easier to target corpses and the channel is a great QoL improvement!

Overall, the ability to resurrect others and use synergies is a much appreciated addition.

The changed animations look a ton better.

I appreciate the effort to fix bugs with the Dire Wolves. It is not perfect, but it is a great start!

6 Target fear? Sign me up!


Mixed:
The changes to the heal work better for me personally as I have managed to exist as a WW player without Pelinal's, however, I can understand arguments against it.

The changes to buff placement give me mixed feelings. We lost our minor brutality in the shift for major fracture on enemies that are feared, CC immune mobs or bosses make this pointless at times (see suggestions).

Blood Rage is an interesting change, It makes DPS WW's easier to play in dungeons, but as a solo/tank I kind of miss the time on taking damage aspect, with better usage of DOTs I can see it possibly being better the way it is on PTS but it will take some getting used to.


Dislikes:
I miss the stun on the Howl ability, why was this removed? I understand the snare/defile crackdown, but this is neither, can a dev or more experienced player give me a why?

In a similar thread, why did we lose Off Balance/Stun from Roar/Pounce?


What I would like to see:
Update to the WW skin, I personally even liked it better back in beta. It doesn't need to be the hulking WWs but an update would be nice.

I would love to see a taunt in some form. My recommendation would be a morph of the Howl ability since it lost its stun. This would allow an option for tanking while not having DPS WWs accidentally taunt via a heavy attack or something of the sort.

Major Fracture should be applied to targets on every cast, not just those that have suffered from a fear effect. Targets that got CC'd by other sources and are currently immune to CC or bosses who cant be CC'd at all should still be affected by Major Fracture in my opinion. It would give WWs a possible reason to use it in boss fights.

A change in the Warden Passives to get a little something extra in WW form would be wonderful.

Possibly a double-edged sword for being a Werewolf in the passives like a vampire. Make it so being a Werewolf means something if you don't happen to be in form/have the ability slotted. Something like moving the 15% stamina regen slot bonus and the vulnerability to poison outside of Werewolf form.

Pipe Dreams:
Toggleable Werewolf mode. I am sure people who are smarter than me can say why it is a Good/Bad/Indifferent idea.

Different Therianthropic(A term for all were-creatures) skins. Lore wise, different races turned into different were-beasts, and there were regional strains of what creature the afflicted would turn into. Bears, Boars, Crocodiles, and Lions to name a few.

Werewolf having a taunt morph on Howl would be amazing.

Please consider giving Werewolf a taunt.

Lordwolfie wrote: »

k0suna wrote: »

Werewolf having a taunt morph on Howl would be amazing.

Please consider giving Werewolf a taunt.

A Taunt would be amazing. Werewolf should not have to just be a DPS it would be nice if they could build tank I feel like it would add a lot to the game.

Would be cool, but I will take the current improvements for now.

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Lordwolfie wrote: »

k0suna wrote: »

Werewolf having a taunt morph on Howl would be amazing.

Please consider giving Werewolf a taunt.

A Taunt would be amazing. Werewolf should not have to just be a DPS it would be nice if they could build tank I feel like it would add a lot to the game.

Would be cool, but I will take the current improvements for now.

I can see where you're coming from, but without the ability to taunt and passives outside of the WW form, Werewolf still doesn't feel equal to Vampire. Without any way of distinguishing a mortal character from a werewolf character who doesn't have the ult slotted, werewolf will never feel equal to me.

If you're a werewolf and it's easy to pretend you're not a werewolf, it's a bit underwhelming for a roleplaying game.

Pulling my post from another thread.

Devour
Works like a dream, how I always hoped it would. It is smooth and responsive. I get about a 2k heal per second in pvp, and it can crit heal as well (unsure if spell crit or weapon crit). You get about ticks of time restore before the corpse is consumed. You can devour for two seconds and come back if the corpse is there and finish the last 2 seconds. Feels like the total duration is the same. There is now a blood pillar hovering over those you haven't devoured making it easy to detect what corpses you haven't devoured without hovering over the corpses.

There is now no cooldown on devour. This means you can devour one corpse and then immediately start devouring the next if your timer isn't full. Awesomeness!

Bloodrage
Operates like we have theorized. It is a vast improvement in pve. In pvp it leaves a little to be desired mainly in Cyrodiil during seiges. We used to have to stand in fire or draw fire from enemies to stay in form, now we have to do damage but have no range attack. Solution equip a set that procs damage on a target like twin sisters... or... fire a siege weapon. Now that damage procs our bloodrage firing a seige weapon at a wall or dumping oil will grant us time in form.

While in combat and actually fighting you don't notice much difference. While pouncing with feral pounce you notice your bar jump. As you get 8 total seconds* for a pounce while jumping into the fight.

Resurrect
Works smoothly and the animation looks solid.

Pack Leader
Direwolves do in fact return if the pack leader is killed.

Direwolves move slightly faster then before and attacks are faster. They could be used to eat away at an enemies stam or as meat shields.

The Direwolves however do not trigger bloodrage. I am not sure if this is intended or if this is how other pets operate in terms of passives.

When solo the dire wolves will taunt targets. When near an ally the dire wolves do not taunt.

Animations
New animations were added to claws (swipe streak (helps you identify impact range), howl (mini horizontal tornado vortex projectile), synergy activation animation for all synergies, resurrecting animation looks great.

Synergizes
Being able to activate synergies is a big plus, damage increase, sustain, survivability overall big bonus for group play.

Healing
Big change, a lot of recoil from the wolf community. On pts it is great! I am getting Similar heals to a pelinals set up before replacing with a new set.

Passive Reworks
Moving speed to pursuit and armor and spell resistance to savage strength makes the perks a little easier for new wolves to digest.

DPS
In pve werewolf can make use of Relequen and bloodmoon the combo of these sets can lead to some pretty extreme dps. Set light attack to your scroll wheel and watch the numbers fly.



Suggested changes
-Allow werewolf the ability to place siege, or prepare for whispers from werewolves begging to use your siege.
-Make direwolves taunt the target to you. (For werewolf tanks)
-Nerf that blood moon.
-Allow werewolves the ability to stealth, it is a slap in the face to werewolves to finally get into The Hunting Grounds and have one of the boss mechanics require stealth and not be able to do.