PTS Update 19 - Feedback Thread for Werewolf Skill Line

Koolio

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'm indifferent to the heal nerf. The rest of the rework is such a gigantic increase to werewolves' big issues that a small nerf was likely required. It's not that large of a nerf, opens up build combinations (i.e. deconning my *** pelinal's) and provides WW way better group utility.


6 man fear is gigantic.

If it’s effected by battle spirit then it’s terrible now.

With Pelinial I have a 20k tooltip heal.

So 10k in pvp. With 27k health if affected then it drops to 6.1k.

Well, it means you should go Hircine's Fortitude now with 27k health it'll be a 9k heal. You lose 10% dmg buff for Hircine's Rage in favor of being able to use a completely different 5pc main that is non-pelinal's. I don't know how to impress upon you how this is actually a giant buff.

So the build I’ve been using and playing with almost daily for over a year gets a 10% Damage Nerf and a 1k heal nerf in pvp. How is that a buff again? Or do I just take Pelinial off for plague doctor to get my heal back? Then lose magic and Stam Regen?

Bruh, this isn't mental gymnastics.

Want more healing? Throw on order of Diagna. Bam, your heal becomes like 10% stronger than current on live in favor of having more HP a the expense of 2 regen lines.

Want more damage? Throw on Truth. You lose 12-13% and two regen lines healing in favor of having significantly more damage.

Want more sustain? Equip Willow's or Shackle.

Want more tank? Equip fortibrass or Trial by Fire.

The WW baseline has been increased significantly and untethers it from pelinal's. If you can't see the value on that then I have nothing else to say.

Want more healing because we Nerfed you slot a healing set and lose your regen

Want more regen slot a regen set and lose your damage

Want more damage slot a damage set and lose your sustain


It’s a 45% Healing Nerf to my current setup( which took months to fine tune) and I’m one of maybe 4 competent open world pvp werewolves on the server. I play everyday and get asked how do I Werewolf. From lots of experience. I get to remove Pelinials great. But I still have to make up for 40% if loss healing while not losing regen or damage to make up for it.

Even taking the other morph is a healing loss while also losing weapon damage.


Don’t get me wrong I’ll figure it out. Just sucks. We ask for QOL updates and bug fixes to just gets nerfed(and buffed)

Jake1576

And here i was excited they was going to maybe add the option to stay in werewolf form permanently if we chose to the fact you must be fighting to stay in werewolf is just dumb the timer should be unlimited period if i just want to stand around in a capital city in werewolf i should be able to for as long as i want werwolf shouldn't be an ultimate it should be a toggle over all i'm not happy with any of the changes and a new werewolf model is being introduced also why aren't we able to transform into that

vertibro

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Werewolf skill line, and the changes to its mechanics, abilities, and passives. After you have a chance to try out different combat scenarios, let us know what you think of the current balance and changes.

So, here's what I think of the current balance and changes: its a pointless rebalance that help nobody, and does not make werewolves any more useful.

I had hoped that this rebalance would include changes to make werewolf even tangentially useful in the pve end-game, but for every build, in every class, vampire or nothing is still better.

Restricting the werewolf passive bonuses to werewolf form condemns werewolves to uselessness, because it is simply not possible to make competitivee dps numbers in pve on a werewolf rotation. For werewolf to be useful, at least one or two passives need to be active at all times.

Suggestions: 1)Restoring the stamina regen passive from a few years ago would be a good start 2)a small movement speed bonus or other quality-of-life improvement 3)these improvements can be balanced by a weakness to poison or disease, similar to the vmapire fire weakness.

Please, Gina, pass this along to the developers, because in all of my vet trial guilds, everyone is disappointed. Not one of my friends has a good thing to say about the rebalance, it seems forced, poorly designed, and condemns werewolves to total non-viability in the vet trial scene.

Left4Daud

Would be nice if Werewolf heavy attacks applied taunt or something.

Everyone telling me I should just make my tank a vampire - would appreciate if werewolf PVE tank could at least be an option, if you built for it.

Ezile

There were nothing but nerfs here it seems for pvp

Lost the stun
Lost the 10% dmg
Gained major breach (decent for solo ww I guess, probably?)
All of the ratios of maintaining ww are now so low that you can't stay in ww form full time easily. 5 second cool down for a 4 second increase and devour was a 12 second gain now it's a 4 second gain for 4 second channel... You only should devour if multiple corpses are present now?

Brutal changes. Huge pvp nerfs. Zos wants to take the very few people who play WW (all pvp) and ruin it for the chance of some new people trying it out in pve. Great.

Jake1576

Seeing the new werewolf model makes me ashamed to even want to use my werewolf character now seeing how the current werewolf looks and seeing the new model makes me want to look like the boss you fight we as players never get anything cool looking like that it's always the npc's that do and it doesn't make any sense to me

Qbiken

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Looks pretty awesome so far except maybe the heal. Is it going to be halved in PvP like other heals? If so the cost needs adjusting as it's a nerf if running Pelinals Aptitude or hybrid set ups. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Or you could just not run Pelinals? I mean it was a gimmicky workaround. You can achieve the same thing (almost) with Gossamer on Live and it gives you a WW with Major Evasion lol

Put 7th Legion back on and GG. Synergizes better with TK anyway.

You literally have 0 sense of what a good WW-build is, saying that Pelinial was gimmick proves that.

Gossamer......lmao

And you don´t use 7th Legion for the heal, it´s garbage after the changes it received a few patches ago.

The change to Hircine´s rage is bad, end of discussion.

Pelinal's WW IS gimmicky. Necessary, but gimmicky. It exists to do one thing - heal yourself appropriately. That makes it gimmicky. The idea that an entire class has to build around one skill in PVP (heal) to effectively be able to fight was absolutely ridiculous from a design perspective. Slotting a mag regen glyph and using Nocturnal's/Grace of Gloom/Bastion of the Hearland/Order of Diagna over Pelinal's is a monstrous EHP and health sustain increase.

Glass cannon medium armor Kena WWs got nerfed (which is fine) but the HA sustained damage WW got a sizeable buff with this change. A 30khp WW with a base 10k heal in PVP before investing anything into it is massive.

I already run a heavy armor build on my werewolf with roughly 28k HP. Lets assume I run with Hircine's Bounty and get 60% of my HP as heal With Battlespirit in mind that's 8,4k heal. By doing so I also lose a lot of damage (unless I'm forced to run brutality pots). Everyone who has the smallest clue how to PvP uses defiles. So our 8,4k heal is now a 5.8-5,9 k at best. Its a nerf unless you run a pure glasscannon build that only use werewolf to burst tanky targets down. Because then you don't plan to stay in ww-form for too long, and therefore you don't need a powerful heal. (Same can't be said for the permawolfs which was one of the main concerns regarding pvp)

And the fact that you suggest Gossamer and Diagna shows that you don't know anything about PvP or werewolfs for that matter. Stop defending a bad change. And before you reply with "you're just unwillingly to theorycraft", I suggest you check out the ww theorycrafting thread I created a few months ago.

Aeschere3

By the new werewolf model you mean the 'roid werewolf, right? Or hulking werewolf or whatever it's called. It makes sense to me that it's enemy-only. TO make the WW model way huger than all other player models would be weird. Also might be hard to fit through entrances.

A floofier ww form would be nice, though.

usmcjdking

Qbiken wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Looks pretty awesome so far except maybe the heal. Is it going to be halved in PvP like other heals? If so the cost needs adjusting as it's a nerf if running Pelinals Aptitude or hybrid set ups. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Or you could just not run Pelinals? I mean it was a gimmicky workaround. You can achieve the same thing (almost) with Gossamer on Live and it gives you a WW with Major Evasion lol

Put 7th Legion back on and GG. Synergizes better with TK anyway.

You literally have 0 sense of what a good WW-build is, saying that Pelinial was gimmick proves that.

Gossamer......lmao

And you don´t use 7th Legion for the heal, it´s garbage after the changes it received a few patches ago.

The change to Hircine´s rage is bad, end of discussion.

Pelinal's WW IS gimmicky. Necessary, but gimmicky. It exists to do one thing - heal yourself appropriately. That makes it gimmicky. The idea that an entire class has to build around one skill in PVP (heal) to effectively be able to fight was absolutely ridiculous from a design perspective. Slotting a mag regen glyph and using Nocturnal's/Grace of Gloom/Bastion of the Hearland/Order of Diagna over Pelinal's is a monstrous EHP and health sustain increase.

Glass cannon medium armor Kena WWs got nerfed (which is fine) but the HA sustained damage WW got a sizeable buff with this change. A 30khp WW with a base 10k heal in PVP before investing anything into it is massive.

I already run a heavy armor build on my werewolf with roughly 28k HP. Lets assume I run with Hircine's Bounty and get 60% of my HP as heal With Battlespirit in mind that's 8,4k heal. By doing so I also lose a lot of damage (unless I'm forced to run brutality pots). Everyone who has the smallest clue how to PvP uses defiles. So our 8,4k heal is now a 5.8-5,9 k at best. Its a nerf unless you run a pure glasscannon build that only use werewolf to burst tanky targets down. Because then you don't plan to stay in ww-form for too long, and therefore you don't need a powerful heal. (Same can't be said for the permawolfs which was one of the main concerns regarding pvp)

And the fact that you suggest Gossamer and Diagna shows that you don't know anything about PvP or werewolfs for that matter. Stop defending a bad change. And before you reply with "you're just unwillingly to theorycraft", I suggest you check out the ww theorycrafting thread I created a few months ago.

hese changes are great for WW all around - far more flexible build wise with larger utility at the expense of a heal which can be mitigated by further armor selection if I decide to go that route.

So no, that's exactly what I'm going to say. You're unwilling to theorycraft. I get you want your personal build to be stronger, unfortunately that's not what WW needed at all.

Avran_Sylt

Ezile wrote: »

There were nothing but nerfs here it seems for pvp

Lost the stun
Lost the 10% dmg
Gained major breach (decent for solo ww I guess, probably?)
All of the ratios of maintaining ww are now so low that you can't stay in ww form full time easily. 5 second cool down for a 4 second increase and devour was a 12 second gain now it's a 4 second gain for 4 second channel... You only should devour if multiple corpses are present now?

Brutal changes. Huge pvp nerfs. Zos wants to take the very few people who play WW (all pvp) and ruin it for the chance of some new people trying it out in pve. Great.

THE ABOVE IS FAKE NEWS ABOUT DEVOUR: it's actually 3 seconds per second devoured, up to a maximum channel of 4s. Meaning it's now 12s, but incrementally rather than all at once at the end. (QoL Improvement).

Aeschere3

I realize that making a taunt ability may be difficult because you have to take overtaunt into account, but I still think it would be really great if you could think of a way! Maybe even add taunting to heavy attack or one of the abilities in WW form for one of the new Wolfhunter monster sets or something.

Koolio

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Looks pretty awesome so far except maybe the heal. Is it going to be halved in PvP like other heals? If so the cost needs adjusting as it's a nerf if running Pelinals Aptitude or hybrid set ups. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Or you could just not run Pelinals? I mean it was a gimmicky workaround. You can achieve the same thing (almost) with Gossamer on Live and it gives you a WW with Major Evasion lol

Put 7th Legion back on and GG. Synergizes better with TK anyway.

You literally have 0 sense of what a good WW-build is, saying that Pelinial was gimmick proves that.

Gossamer......lmao

And you don´t use 7th Legion for the heal, it´s garbage after the changes it received a few patches ago.

The change to Hircine´s rage is bad, end of discussion.

Pelinal's WW IS gimmicky. Necessary, but gimmicky. It exists to do one thing - heal yourself appropriately. That makes it gimmicky. The idea that an entire class has to build around one skill in PVP (heal) to effectively be able to fight was absolutely ridiculous from a design perspective. Slotting a mag regen glyph and using Nocturnal's/Grace of Gloom/Bastion of the Hearland/Order of Diagna over Pelinal's is a monstrous EHP and health sustain increase.

Glass cannon medium armor Kena WWs got nerfed (which is fine) but the HA sustained damage WW got a sizeable buff with this change. A 30khp WW with a base 10k heal in PVP before investing anything into it is massive.

I already run a heavy armor build on my werewolf with roughly 28k HP. Lets assume I run with Hircine's Bounty and get 60% of my HP as heal With Battlespirit in mind that's 8,4k heal. By doing so I also lose a lot of damage (unless I'm forced to run brutality pots). Everyone who has the smallest clue how to PvP uses defiles. So our 8,4k heal is now a 5.8-5,9 k at best. Its a nerf unless you run a pure glasscannon build that only use werewolf to burst tanky targets down. Because then you don't plan to stay in ww-form for too long, and therefore you don't need a powerful heal. (Same can't be said for the permawolfs which was one of the main concerns regarding pvp)

And the fact that you suggest Gossamer and Diagna shows that you don't know anything about PvP or werewolfs for that matter. Stop defending a bad change. And before you reply with "you're just unwillingly to theorycraft", I suggest you check out the ww theorycrafting thread I created a few months ago.

hese changes are great for WW all around - far more flexible build wise with larger utility at the expense of a heal which can be mitigated by further armor selection if I decide to go that route.

So no, that's exactly what I'm going to say. You're unwilling to theorycraft. I get you want your personal build to be stronger, unfortunately that's not what WW needed at all.

that heal is the only way to actually try and solo on a WW. I’ll just go Zerg with 50k Health now just so I can heal myself.

Your right though we (the actual people who played WW) wanted some buffs. It did have to be crazy. Just little things.

Not nerf our heal by 40% but let us theorycraft to try and make that back.

Jake1576

Aeschere3 wrote: »

By the new werewolf model you mean the 'roid werewolf, right? Or hulking werewolf or whatever it's called. It makes sense to me that it's enemy-only. TO make the WW model way huger than all other player models would be weird. Also might be hard to fit through entrances.

A floofier ww form would be nice, though.

Roid looking werewolf lol i just think it would be neat to be able to be used on are werewolfs the current werewolf model just looks old and boring something like that would be really cool or even if they added it as a new morph to the werewolf skill line anything heck i would even take a polymorph that allow people with lycanthropy to look like that

Qbiken

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Looks pretty awesome so far except maybe the heal. Is it going to be halved in PvP like other heals? If so the cost needs adjusting as it's a nerf if running Pelinals Aptitude or hybrid set ups. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Or you could just not run Pelinals? I mean it was a gimmicky workaround. You can achieve the same thing (almost) with Gossamer on Live and it gives you a WW with Major Evasion lol

Put 7th Legion back on and GG. Synergizes better with TK anyway.

You literally have 0 sense of what a good WW-build is, saying that Pelinial was gimmick proves that.

Gossamer......lmao

And you don´t use 7th Legion for the heal, it´s garbage after the changes it received a few patches ago.

The change to Hircine´s rage is bad, end of discussion.

Pelinal's WW IS gimmicky. Necessary, but gimmicky. It exists to do one thing - heal yourself appropriately. That makes it gimmicky. The idea that an entire class has to build around one skill in PVP (heal) to effectively be able to fight was absolutely ridiculous from a design perspective. Slotting a mag regen glyph and using Nocturnal's/Grace of Gloom/Bastion of the Hearland/Order of Diagna over Pelinal's is a monstrous EHP and health sustain increase.

Glass cannon medium armor Kena WWs got nerfed (which is fine) but the HA sustained damage WW got a sizeable buff with this change. A 30khp WW with a base 10k heal in PVP before investing anything into it is massive.

I already run a heavy armor build on my werewolf with roughly 28k HP. Lets assume I run with Hircine's Bounty and get 60% of my HP as heal With Battlespirit in mind that's 8,4k heal. By doing so I also lose a lot of damage (unless I'm forced to run brutality pots). Everyone who has the smallest clue how to PvP uses defiles. So our 8,4k heal is now a 5.8-5,9 k at best. Its a nerf unless you run a pure glasscannon build that only use werewolf to burst tanky targets down. Because then you don't plan to stay in ww-form for too long, and therefore you don't need a powerful heal. (Same can't be said for the permawolfs which was one of the main concerns regarding pvp)

And the fact that you suggest Gossamer and Diagna shows that you don't know anything about PvP or werewolfs for that matter. Stop defending a bad change. And before you reply with "you're just unwillingly to theorycraft", I suggest you check out the ww theorycrafting thread I created a few months ago.

hese changes are great for WW all around - far more flexible build wise with larger utility at the expense of a heal which can be mitigated by further armor selection if I decide to go that route.

So no, that's exactly what I'm going to say. You're unwilling to theorycraft. I get you want your personal build to be stronger, unfortunately that's not what WW needed at all.

The changes to Werewolfs are a buff for PvE and a nerf for PvP. And that's why this change to Hircine's bounty was made. To balance things out between these two.

This has 0 to do with what I currently use on my werewolf. I've several other builds I can pick from, so you don't have to worry about me. Knowing ZOS I know it's a "death sentence" only have one core setup to use and I already know what I'll use next patch

What werewold needed was:
1. Bugfixes (got a few, stil many left)
2.QoL changes

What werewolf didn't need was:
1. Big changes to how they currently work (which was even written in the summary after the first meeting between the devs and the class-reps). Changing the way the heal works is exactly such a change that goes under the lable "major overhaul".

We give one kind of feedback and it backfires completely.

usmcjdking

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Looks pretty awesome so far except maybe the heal. Is it going to be halved in PvP like other heals? If so the cost needs adjusting as it's a nerf if running Pelinals Aptitude or hybrid set ups. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Or you could just not run Pelinals? I mean it was a gimmicky workaround. You can achieve the same thing (almost) with Gossamer on Live and it gives you a WW with Major Evasion lol

Put 7th Legion back on and GG. Synergizes better with TK anyway.

You literally have 0 sense of what a good WW-build is, saying that Pelinial was gimmick proves that.

Gossamer......lmao

And you don´t use 7th Legion for the heal, it´s garbage after the changes it received a few patches ago.

The change to Hircine´s rage is bad, end of discussion.

Pelinal's WW IS gimmicky. Necessary, but gimmicky. It exists to do one thing - heal yourself appropriately. That makes it gimmicky. The idea that an entire class has to build around one skill in PVP (heal) to effectively be able to fight was absolutely ridiculous from a design perspective. Slotting a mag regen glyph and using Nocturnal's/Grace of Gloom/Bastion of the Hearland/Order of Diagna over Pelinal's is a monstrous EHP and health sustain increase.

Glass cannon medium armor Kena WWs got nerfed (which is fine) but the HA sustained damage WW got a sizeable buff with this change. A 30khp WW with a base 10k heal in PVP before investing anything into it is massive.

I already run a heavy armor build on my werewolf with roughly 28k HP. Lets assume I run with Hircine's Bounty and get 60% of my HP as heal With Battlespirit in mind that's 8,4k heal. By doing so I also lose a lot of damage (unless I'm forced to run brutality pots). Everyone who has the smallest clue how to PvP uses defiles. So our 8,4k heal is now a 5.8-5,9 k at best. Its a nerf unless you run a pure glasscannon build that only use werewolf to burst tanky targets down. Because then you don't plan to stay in ww-form for too long, and therefore you don't need a powerful heal. (Same can't be said for the permawolfs which was one of the main concerns regarding pvp)

And the fact that you suggest Gossamer and Diagna shows that you don't know anything about PvP or werewolfs for that matter. Stop defending a bad change. And before you reply with "you're just unwillingly to theorycraft", I suggest you check out the ww theorycrafting thread I created a few months ago.

hese changes are great for WW all around - far more flexible build wise with larger utility at the expense of a heal which can be mitigated by further armor selection if I decide to go that route.

So no, that's exactly what I'm going to say. You're unwilling to theorycraft. I get you want your personal build to be stronger, unfortunately that's not what WW needed at all.

that heal is the only way to actually try and solo on a WW. I’ll just go Zerg with 50k Health now just so I can heal myself.

Your right though we (the actual people who played WW) wanted some buffs. It did have to be crazy. Just little things.

Not nerf our heal by 40% but let us theorycraft to try and make that back.

The only WW that got crushed out here is the medium armor WW who relied on the giant Pelinal's heal due to low max HP.

AFAIK there were only maybe 2-3 medium armor WWs on NA to include myself and I haven't seen a single WW on EU but that's largely due to the fact I don't play during EU primetime.

I for one have no issue sacking my current build in light of these changes. I am excited and have no qualms with any of them as a package with the exception of devour not giving what it should (gigantic damage buff).

Arobain

I see these people casting judgement on these changes and then not even knowing that AAAAALLLLLL heals are halved in PvP it doesnt require a master's to understand that; then there's the people saying that they are killing build options with werewolf with the heal yet if you wanted to heal you HAD to use pelinals; so you would only ever have one set to change around; the people also saying the heal change is bad are also the same people with the same copied off Google gold pelinals gear that are butthurt they have to change their niche sets; and then even worse it's not enough that they use their bias to *** on the changes they then say " here's what would have been best (insert meg personal bias here) " oh and the one guy saying that a werewolf is never going to be able to stay in form because of the blood rage change? Lmao what a joke; do you forgot the massive amount of DoTs the werewolf has? This is going to be 100 percent possible upkeep; with old blood rage if you stunned your enemy on one v one; or they were running away then there was a MUCH harder time staying in form because you aren't using damage from either of those scenarios; all of these self proclaimed werewolf experts that got their same exact Google build as every other werewolf needs to calm down; I'd you do not understand something; don't act like you do. My experience? 3800 hours NEVER looking on google for builds always making my own and playing since beta should be enough;

usmcjdking

Qbiken wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Ertthewolf wrote: »

Looks pretty awesome so far except maybe the heal. Is it going to be halved in PvP like other heals? If so the cost needs adjusting as it's a nerf if running Pelinals Aptitude or hybrid set ups. @ZOS_GinaBruno

Or you could just not run Pelinals? I mean it was a gimmicky workaround. You can achieve the same thing (almost) with Gossamer on Live and it gives you a WW with Major Evasion lol

Put 7th Legion back on and GG. Synergizes better with TK anyway.

You literally have 0 sense of what a good WW-build is, saying that Pelinial was gimmick proves that.

Gossamer......lmao

And you don´t use 7th Legion for the heal, it´s garbage after the changes it received a few patches ago.

The change to Hircine´s rage is bad, end of discussion.

Pelinal's WW IS gimmicky. Necessary, but gimmicky. It exists to do one thing - heal yourself appropriately. That makes it gimmicky. The idea that an entire class has to build around one skill in PVP (heal) to effectively be able to fight was absolutely ridiculous from a design perspective. Slotting a mag regen glyph and using Nocturnal's/Grace of Gloom/Bastion of the Hearland/Order of Diagna over Pelinal's is a monstrous EHP and health sustain increase.

Glass cannon medium armor Kena WWs got nerfed (which is fine) but the HA sustained damage WW got a sizeable buff with this change. A 30khp WW with a base 10k heal in PVP before investing anything into it is massive.

I already run a heavy armor build on my werewolf with roughly 28k HP. Lets assume I run with Hircine's Bounty and get 60% of my HP as heal With Battlespirit in mind that's 8,4k heal. By doing so I also lose a lot of damage (unless I'm forced to run brutality pots). Everyone who has the smallest clue how to PvP uses defiles. So our 8,4k heal is now a 5.8-5,9 k at best. Its a nerf unless you run a pure glasscannon build that only use werewolf to burst tanky targets down. Because then you don't plan to stay in ww-form for too long, and therefore you don't need a powerful heal. (Same can't be said for the permawolfs which was one of the main concerns regarding pvp)

And the fact that you suggest Gossamer and Diagna shows that you don't know anything about PvP or werewolfs for that matter. Stop defending a bad change. And before you reply with "you're just unwillingly to theorycraft", I suggest you check out the ww theorycrafting thread I created a few months ago.

hese changes are great for WW all around - far more flexible build wise with larger utility at the expense of a heal which can be mitigated by further armor selection if I decide to go that route.

So no, that's exactly what I'm going to say. You're unwilling to theorycraft. I get you want your personal build to be stronger, unfortunately that's not what WW needed at all.

The changes to Werewolfs are a buff for PvE and a nerf for PvP. And that's why this change to Hircine's bounty was made. To balance things out between these two.

This has 0 to do with what I currently use on my werewolf. I've several other builds I can pick from, so you don't have to worry about me. Knowing ZOS I know it's a "death sentence" only have one core setup to use and I already know what I'll use next patch

What werewold needed was:
1. Bugfixes (got a few, stil many left)
2.QoL changes

What werewolf didn't need was:
1. Big changes to how they currently work (which was even written in the summary after the first meeting between the devs and the class-reps). Changing the way the heal works is exactly such a change that goes under the lable "major overhaul".

We give one kind of feedback and it backfires completely.

WW absolutely needed an overhaul. Useless in PVE and purist in PVP.

Werewolf needed group desirability outside of meme 50 man WW packs. All of these changes opened up WW for both PVE and PVP as being desirable. A lot of small groups are already in the process of attempting to insert WW cores right now. WW + Stamplar duo? Yeah good luck fighting that with a anything less than a zerg.

Avran_Sylt

40K DPS parse on a Humanoid Skeleton. Optimized, but not completely.
https://youtu.be/-zZVQTBqC6c

Wolfchild07

Jake1576 wrote: »

And here i was excited they was going to maybe add the option to stay in werewolf form permanently if we chose to the fact you must be fighting to stay in werewolf is just dumb the timer should be unlimited period if i just want to stand around in a capital city in werewolf i should be able to for as long as i want werwolf shouldn't be an ultimate it should be a toggle over all i'm not happy with any of the changes and a new werewolf model is being introduced also why aren't we able to transform into that

Yeah, all they need to do is stop the timer from depleting in PvE areas. There's absolutely no need for a timer in PvE, werewolf is the underdog there. Out of werewolf form you can just stack 4 or 5 aoes and then afk while everything dies.

But I guess werewolf is too OP in PvE to make it permanent.

Ertthewolf

Hey guys, try not to bicker on changes. What we need are useful numbers and criticism for the devs to make adjustments before live. Plenty of time for testing. We needed the werewolf in the spotlight for years, we got it for sure. Plenty of awesome fixes, and even if it's not all perfect this update, we have a lot to mess around with.

Arobain

I'm ignored because I'm right; and now that I post this message I'll get replies

Avran_Sylt

Arobain wrote: »

I'm ignored because I'm right; and now that I post this message I'll get replies

You'd mainly be ignored because that 'wall of text' you posted is an eyesore, not formatted in any neat manner, and when I actually read it I left halfway through because it's a lot of run-on sentences that seem poorly thought out. I'm still not sure what it is you're trying to say in it.

The above small snippet (both yours and mine) is concise and easily digestible, easily replied to, sparking interest in the source material.

Maybe look over your posts a few times and revise them before actually posting them? Cause right now I'm not going to try and decipher what it is you're trying to say in your previous post. The attitude you've shown so far gives me an impression that it isn't worth it, as any further discourse will be a slog to get through anyway.

Lord_Eomer

Blood Rage: This ability now increases the timer of your Werewolf Transformation when you deal damage, rather than when you take damage. It adds 2/4 seconds to your timer with a 5 second cooldown

This change is good but cooldown is very higher, it can not let stay in werewolf wolf as it increase time by 4 second with a cool down of 5 seconds.

Even as WW we will be attacking target but eventually going out of WW form. Especially long PVE fights, WW will be ejecting from WW forms before taget kills.

It will be easier for players to remain in WW form if cooldown reduces to 3 second or less.

Werewolf Transformation:
You can now use synergy abilities while transformed. You will use a unique Werewolf-themed animation instead of the synergy’s usual animation.

Allow activating synergy to increase time in WW form

You can now use Siege Weapons while transformed.

Will it freeze WW form timer?

Amdar_Godkiller

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'm indifferent to the heal nerf. The rest of the rework is such a gigantic increase to werewolves' big issues that a small nerf was likely required. It's not that large of a nerf, opens up build combinations (i.e. deconning my *** pelinal's) and provides WW way better group utility.


6 man fear is gigantic.

If it’s effected by battle spirit then it’s terrible now.

With Pelinial I have a 20k tooltip heal.

So 10k in pvp. With 27k health if affected then it drops to 6.1k.

Well, it means you should go Hircine's Fortitude now with 27k health it'll be a 9k heal. You lose 10% dmg buff for Hircine's Rage in favor of being able to use a completely different 5pc main that is non-pelinal's. I don't know how to impress upon you how this is actually a giant buff.

So the build I’ve been using and playing with almost daily for over a year gets a 10% Damage Nerf and a 1k heal nerf in pvp. How is that a buff again? Or do I just take Pelinial off for plague doctor to get my heal back? Then lose magic and Stam Regen?

Bruh, this isn't mental gymnastics.

Want more healing? Throw on order of Diagna. Bam, your heal becomes like 10% stronger than current on live in favor of having more HP a the expense of 2 regen lines.

Want more damage? Throw on Truth. You lose 12-13% and two regen lines healing in favor of having significantly more damage.

Want more sustain? Equip Willow's or Shackle.

Want more tank? Equip fortibrass or Trial by Fire.

The WW baseline has been increased significantly and untethers it from pelinal's. If you can't see the value on that then I have nothing else to say.

Order of diagna is a garbage set. You'd be better off with TBS using the ritual. Nobody in their right mind would use Diagna. Just stop, man, you're making yourself look stupid.

Sharee

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Blood Rage: This ability now increases the timer of your Werewolf Transformation when you deal damage, rather than when you take damage. It adds 2/4 seconds to your timer with a 5 second cooldown

This change is good but cooldown is very higher, it can not let stay in werewolf wolf as it increase time by 4 second with a cool down of 5 seconds.

Even as WW we will be attacking target but eventually going out of WW form. Especially long PVE fights, WW will be ejecting from WW forms before taget kills.

It will be easier for players to remain in WW form if cooldown reduces to 3 second or less.

I'd like to know whether this is affected by WW passives. For example the leap has a 4 sec added to timer tooltip, but actually adds 5 due to the passives. It is possible that the new blood rage timer extension will match its cooldown when everything is taken into account.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

"You can now use Siege Weapons while transformed."

Will it freeze WW form timer?

WW always could use siege while transformed - just not place it. So i don't think controlling a siege will stop timer since that's not what ZOS tampered with.

usmcjdking

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I'm indifferent to the heal nerf. The rest of the rework is such a gigantic increase to werewolves' big issues that a small nerf was likely required. It's not that large of a nerf, opens up build combinations (i.e. deconning my *** pelinal's) and provides WW way better group utility.


6 man fear is gigantic.

If it’s effected by battle spirit then it’s terrible now.

With Pelinial I have a 20k tooltip heal.

So 10k in pvp. With 27k health if affected then it drops to 6.1k.

Well, it means you should go Hircine's Fortitude now with 27k health it'll be a 9k heal. You lose 10% dmg buff for Hircine's Rage in favor of being able to use a completely different 5pc main that is non-pelinal's. I don't know how to impress upon you how this is actually a giant buff.

So the build I’ve been using and playing with almost daily for over a year gets a 10% Damage Nerf and a 1k heal nerf in pvp. How is that a buff again? Or do I just take Pelinial off for plague doctor to get my heal back? Then lose magic and Stam Regen?

Bruh, this isn't mental gymnastics.

Want more healing? Throw on order of Diagna. Bam, your heal becomes like 10% stronger than current on live in favor of having more HP a the expense of 2 regen lines.

Want more damage? Throw on Truth. You lose 12-13% and two regen lines healing in favor of having significantly more damage.

Want more sustain? Equip Willow's or Shackle.

Want more tank? Equip fortibrass or Trial by Fire.

The WW baseline has been increased significantly and untethers it from pelinal's. If you can't see the value on that then I have nothing else to say.

Order of diagna is a garbage set. You'd be better off with TBS using the ritual. Nobody in their right mind would use Diagna. Just stop, man, you're making yourself look stupid.

Yeah, Order is bad.

You know what's worse than Order on PTS? Pelinal's WW. Unless you have anything that requires more than two braincells to add please don't bother coming at me sideways.

Arobain

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Arobain wrote: »

I'm ignored because I'm right; and now that I post this message I'll get replies

You'd mainly be ignored because that 'wall of text' you posted is an eyesore, not formatted in any neat manner, and when I actually read it I left halfway through because it's a lot of run-on sentences that seem poorly thought out. I'm still not sure what it is you're trying to say in it.

The above small snippet (both yours and mine) is concise and easily digestible, easily replied to, sparking interest in the source material.

Maybe look over your posts a few times and revise them before actually posting them? Cause right now I'm not going to try and decipher what it is you're trying to say in your previous post. The attitude you've shown so far gives me an impression that it isn't worth it, as any further discourse will be a slog to get through anyway.

I was at work on my break on my phone; I wasn't going to write a well formatted essay

Sharee

Arobain wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Arobain wrote: »

I'm ignored because I'm right; and now that I post this message I'll get replies

You'd mainly be ignored because that 'wall of text' you posted is an eyesore, not formatted in any neat manner, and when I actually read it I left halfway through because it's a lot of run-on sentences that seem poorly thought out. I'm still not sure what it is you're trying to say in it.

The above small snippet (both yours and mine) is concise and easily digestible, easily replied to, sparking interest in the source material.

Maybe look over your posts a few times and revise them before actually posting them? Cause right now I'm not going to try and decipher what it is you're trying to say in your previous post. The attitude you've shown so far gives me an impression that it isn't worth it, as any further discourse will be a slog to get through anyway.

I was at work on my break on my phone; I wasn't going to write a well formatted essay

That's fine, just don't be surprised when people skip over that block.

Aliyavana

What class synergizes best with ww?

Sharee

Aliyavana wrote: »

What class synergizes best with ww?

That's a long debate, and in the end it depends on your WW playstyle. Some people prefer sorc or templar for the passives. Good if your playstyle is to transform ASAP and stay that way as long as possible. Me, i prefer dragonknight. My playstyle is to fight in human form and transform midfight to take advantage of the DK resource restore on ultimate use(this can often completely turn the fight around).