[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

Adenoma · June 2018

I’ve gone back to playing stamDK in PvP and the biggest issues I notice is the balance between the concepts of mobility vs stand your ground. I don’t think we’re going to revert to the DK of yesteryear, but it would be great to give stamDKs a reflect that operated per person targeting them, but more importantly let them have some small window of snare immunity with a similar duration to shuffle. That way you’re dependent on a magicka ability to get movement, but you don’t have a huge window so you get to travel in bursts. I would increase the cost on this a little so that magDKs aren’t zipping around Cyrodiil. With respect to stamina that would allow us to slot a burst heal again with rally over forward momentum. Either that or give us a stamina version of green dragons blood.

ak_pvp · June 2018

Ishammael wrote: »

Pain points:

1. Mobility vs. Stand your ground. Mobility is king in Cyrodill. A sorc or NB always has the option (cloak and bolt escape) and ability to disengage from a fight vs a DK. The DK never has that option. Therefore the DK toolkit should be designed to fit the limitation of inability to disengage. Historical examples: Battle Roar + dynamic ult, evasion on Cinder storm, infinite reflect. Each of those things gave the DK a tool to fit when outnumbered. Each of these things benefit both stam and mag DKs. I am not saying to revert these changes, only that the DK needs something asymmetric akin to Cloak and BE to remain competitive in open world. The sorcerer class has remained at or near the top every single meta because BE is so good in open world Cyrodill.

DK is definitely the one of the worst outnumbered classes OW. Any stand your ground things are quite well and dead, block scales awfully, and wings is downright anti numbers, yet somehow cloak which prevents near all kinds of attacks remains in the same OP spot. The only scale with number thing is inhale, and that is not exactly a constant main defense with eh healing, and limited stat return.

Prevention is the best cure, hence why mobility/invisibility to not get hit is all the rage, and TreeVP, trees don't discriminate how many players it can protect you from.

Xvorg · June 2018

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

xynode wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

You asked for 2 points so here are mine. Do with them as you wish.

1. Too many skills focused on Mag only. We have 2 stam morphs and the rest is all mag.
Mag DK relies a lot on class skills which makes the mag DK very CLASS heavy skill wise, which imo is perfect...
BUT the stam DK on the other hand has really only 2 skills and then it has to focus on weapon skills too much, negating the point of a class and making it far too easy to just duplicate the same setup on all classes. Needs more class focus on stam abilities.
2. No execute outside of weapon skills/passives/cps (butcher/traits(bloodthirsty).

Hope this helps.

Please, stop the "2 stam morphs" complaint. DK has 2 stam ultis too, which is way more than the rest of the classes. Instead of asking for a new stam morph, ask for a rework on corrosive armor.

Fair is fair. Stamsorcs has NO stam ulti neither stam dmg skills besides hurricane.

stam nb has five direct stam morphs not including utlitiy skills used for stam, sorc has a lot of passives for stam aswell(auto execute, weapon damage, stam regen ect.) cmon now.

Some class has to use the weapon skills. Do you think anyone will ever use 2H or DW on a stamDK if whip has a stam morph? Everyone will run s/B

Anti_Virus · June 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

xynode wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

You asked for 2 points so here are mine. Do with them as you wish.

1. Too many skills focused on Mag only. We have 2 stam morphs and the rest is all mag.
Mag DK relies a lot on class skills which makes the mag DK very CLASS heavy skill wise, which imo is perfect...
BUT the stam DK on the other hand has really only 2 skills and then it has to focus on weapon skills too much, negating the point of a class and making it far too easy to just duplicate the same setup on all classes. Needs more class focus on stam abilities.
2. No execute outside of weapon skills/passives/cps (butcher/traits(bloodthirsty).

Hope this helps.

Please, stop the "2 stam morphs" complaint. DK has 2 stam ultis too, which is way more than the rest of the classes. Instead of asking for a new stam morph, ask for a rework on corrosive armor.

Fair is fair. Stamsorcs has NO stam ulti neither stam dmg skills besides hurricane.

stam nb has five direct stam morphs not including utlitiy skills used for stam, sorc has a lot of passives for stam aswell(auto execute, weapon damage, stam regen ect.) cmon now.

Some class has to use the weapon skills. Do you think anyone will ever use 2H or DW on a stamDK if whip has a stam morph? Everyone will run s/B

1. incorrect, only stam dk and sorc has to run weapon skill lines.

2. you're damn right stam dk would use SnB with stam whip what's your point?

Jaavaa · June 2018

DK and Stam Sorcs are the only class without good stam based Damage Skills. This needs a skillchange. Stamwhip.

Cenom · June 2018

.

Riggsy · June 2018

Quantum_V wrote: »

...in this thread we aim to tackle pain points specifically.

Playing Stam DK in PVP is a Pain

saggyspandex · June 2018

As a pve player
1. Sustain mostly on the mag dk side. (Very popular response)
2. Stam dk since off balance changes and the light attack buff now it’s all been going against what stam dk is about. Revert the off balance changes and/or give us a spammable something that deals poison, play into that theme. Either whip which people have been saying for a long time or even stone fist change a morph to a stam morph. Like corrosive armor but call it corrosive fist and have it be a stam spammable. Give us a way to compete with stamblade.

zacvanm · June 2018

#StamWhip PLEASE

I main StamDK in PvP and PvE. I can’t really complain much on the PvE side as I’m a heavy attacking DOT rotation DPS. I DW and Bow in PvP because I hate the S&B/2H Meta.

1. Class (stamina) spammable is non existent. MagDK gets whips, so I think we need a Stam morph to whips. Let it deal X amount of physical/poison damage and maybe have it apply minor snare to movement speed (forget the debuff name).

2. Class execute. I have to use my Leap or DBoS as an execute, which isn’t terrible, but why is DK the ONLY class without a class execute? *StamSorc has auto execute in passives*.

I know my ideas are not unique but I wanted to give my two cents. I love my DK, first character I made when I started the game. Played it through the extremely good times and also the extremely bad times. It’s gotten better, but more needs to be done. I don’t want to just be a tanky DOT build in PvP than can be purified by everyone.

Etaniel · June 2018

My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.

The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.

The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.

Moglijuana · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.

The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.

The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.

Yea it's honestly really bad for such a high cost skill. Thinking of swapping it out for rapid regen and changing cauterize back to FoB.

Yzalirk · June 2018

Here are my thoughts;

1. There needs to be a Stamina spammable. One of the whip morphs can easily be converted for Stamina users or at least scale from highest resource pool. It could also work as an execute so people actually use it.

I am undecided about a second priority so I may edit a second one later on. Also, just a side note, please revert Noxious Breath and Venom Claw to look like fire. They look better and Noxious Breath looks like legit vomit.

Xvorg · June 2018

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

xynode wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

You asked for 2 points so here are mine. Do with them as you wish.

1. Too many skills focused on Mag only. We have 2 stam morphs and the rest is all mag.
Mag DK relies a lot on class skills which makes the mag DK very CLASS heavy skill wise, which imo is perfect...
BUT the stam DK on the other hand has really only 2 skills and then it has to focus on weapon skills too much, negating the point of a class and making it far too easy to just duplicate the same setup on all classes. Needs more class focus on stam abilities.
2. No execute outside of weapon skills/passives/cps (butcher/traits(bloodthirsty).

Hope this helps.

Please, stop the "2 stam morphs" complaint. DK has 2 stam ultis too, which is way more than the rest of the classes. Instead of asking for a new stam morph, ask for a rework on corrosive armor.

Fair is fair. Stamsorcs has NO stam ulti neither stam dmg skills besides hurricane.

stam nb has five direct stam morphs not including utlitiy skills used for stam, sorc has a lot of passives for stam aswell(auto execute, weapon damage, stam regen ect.) cmon now.

Some class has to use the weapon skills. Do you think anyone will ever use 2H or DW on a stamDK if whip has a stam morph? Everyone will run s/B

1. incorrect, only stam dk and sorc has to run weapon skill lines.

2. you're damn right stam dk would use SnB with stam whip what's your point?

Then, what's the point on having those skill lines? Just the passives?

Edit: I mean, I wish we had a stam whip, but it is very unlikely that will happen because it will impact on the use of those weapon skills

Anti_Virus · June 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

xynode wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

You asked for 2 points so here are mine. Do with them as you wish.

1. Too many skills focused on Mag only. We have 2 stam morphs and the rest is all mag.
Mag DK relies a lot on class skills which makes the mag DK very CLASS heavy skill wise, which imo is perfect...
BUT the stam DK on the other hand has really only 2 skills and then it has to focus on weapon skills too much, negating the point of a class and making it far too easy to just duplicate the same setup on all classes. Needs more class focus on stam abilities.
2. No execute outside of weapon skills/passives/cps (butcher/traits(bloodthirsty).

Hope this helps.

Please, stop the "2 stam morphs" complaint. DK has 2 stam ultis too, which is way more than the rest of the classes. Instead of asking for a new stam morph, ask for a rework on corrosive armor.

Fair is fair. Stamsorcs has NO stam ulti neither stam dmg skills besides hurricane.

stam nb has five direct stam morphs not including utlitiy skills used for stam, sorc has a lot of passives for stam aswell(auto execute, weapon damage, stam regen ect.) cmon now.

Some class has to use the weapon skills. Do you think anyone will ever use 2H or DW on a stamDK if whip has a stam morph? Everyone will run s/B

1. incorrect, only stam dk and sorc has to run weapon skill lines.

2. you're damn right stam dk would use SnB with stam whip what's your point?

Then, what's the point on having those skill lines? Just the passives?

Edit: I mean, I wish we had a stam whip, but it is very unlikely that will happen because it will impact on the use of those weapon skills

not all dk abilites would be on bars, SnB for example still has good skills like reverb bash for CC. and Shield charge for gap closer.

Adenoma · June 2018

@Etaniel , that's been the biggest thorn in my side with reflective plate - it scales horribly when fighting outnumbered and say you are doing something like fighting a DK, then the next tick of burning embers/venomous claw you're going to be snared immediately again.

I don't know how to appropriately balance snare immunity with wings for magDK, but it'd allow stamDKs to return to a pretty tanky status in PvP where they have some bursts of snare immunity like shuffle used to provide, but it also allows them to run a burst heal in rally over forward momentum.

Anhedonie · June 2018

1.Skill cost is too high.
2.Flames of oblivion should be an AOE, just like in the old times.

Xvorg · June 2018

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

xynode wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

You asked for 2 points so here are mine. Do with them as you wish.

1. Too many skills focused on Mag only. We have 2 stam morphs and the rest is all mag.
Mag DK relies a lot on class skills which makes the mag DK very CLASS heavy skill wise, which imo is perfect...
BUT the stam DK on the other hand has really only 2 skills and then it has to focus on weapon skills too much, negating the point of a class and making it far too easy to just duplicate the same setup on all classes. Needs more class focus on stam abilities.
2. No execute outside of weapon skills/passives/cps (butcher/traits(bloodthirsty).

Hope this helps.

Please, stop the "2 stam morphs" complaint. DK has 2 stam ultis too, which is way more than the rest of the classes. Instead of asking for a new stam morph, ask for a rework on corrosive armor.

Fair is fair. Stamsorcs has NO stam ulti neither stam dmg skills besides hurricane.

stam nb has five direct stam morphs not including utlitiy skills used for stam, sorc has a lot of passives for stam aswell(auto execute, weapon damage, stam regen ect.) cmon now.

Some class has to use the weapon skills. Do you think anyone will ever use 2H or DW on a stamDK if whip has a stam morph? Everyone will run s/B

1. incorrect, only stam dk and sorc has to run weapon skill lines.

2. you're damn right stam dk would use SnB with stam whip what's your point?

Then, what's the point on having those skill lines? Just the passives?

Edit: I mean, I wish we had a stam whip, but it is very unlikely that will happen because it will impact on the use of those weapon skills

not all dk abilites would be on bars, SnB for example still has good skills like reverb bash for CC. and Shield charge for gap closer.

From ZoS logic:

1- In the early versions of the game, there where magicka skills (class and MG) and stamina skills (weapons and FG)
2- When they decided to buff stamina, they picked up 2 classes to have stamina spammable (NB/Templar) and other 2 that doesn't have it (sorcs and DK), consider both classes have access to elemental dmg
3- When they introduced Frankenstein monster (Warden), they made something weird: they gave them a stamina spammable from range and and a stam CC with high dmg. Later they changed that. Also they gave frankie elemental dmg (in an almost useless form)

I think they won't go for a stam spammable on sorcs and DKs because they worked a lot creating weapon skill lines. They need to keep them somewhat relevant. IMHO what they did wrong with DK was moving towards poison not having enough skills based on poison dmg in the weapon skill lines. Maybe they should have kept flame dmg on stam morphs while making a skill or passive that allowed you to add flame dmg to weapon skills, thus making those weapon lines more appealing for DKs and giving them some sort of identity. In the case of sorcs they solved it way better, just pairing shock dmg to physical dmg. There's plenty of physical dmg skills so when I play sorc I don't feel capped while using S/B, DW/ 2H or bow because everyone of them has good synergyes with the sorc passives.

my 2 cents:

1- Make DK great again. Get rid of poison dmg, bring back flame stam morphs escalating out of stamina (MoA and thaum are more relevant than elemental expert right now, and spending 43 points in apprentice to get 10% extra flame dmg is not so complicated considering mDKs have to spend 75 on thaum)

2- Bring back ancient (yeah, the first one) Molten weapons, that added extra flame dmg to all your weapon attacks. That will give DKs some of the indentity that has been stripped from patch to patch.

Poison whip? my balls... I want a flamming sword

BohnT · June 2018

Who made those stamdk things?
Noxious Breath is the most useless *** I've seen in a long time.
The initial damage is ***, the dot is laughable.
Also no mention of a stam spammable?
Like what do you want stamdk to be the same useless thing it has been for 1 year?

Raraaku · June 2018

@Quantum_V

Hey Quantum, was there any discussion about Green Dragon Blood as well? Particularly when it comes to the what is meant to be stamina/tank morph costing 4.3k in resources and both morphs only scaling with missing health? I know Tanks can use Balance to help sustain magicka but that is locked behind 7 levels of book finding in the Mages Guild skill line. However, the other non-tradition healer classes have much better options for self-healing. NB has Killer's Blade, Mark Target, and Dark Cloak while Sorcerer has 2 pets (whose heals cost about 1k less in magicka), Blood Magic passive, Surge, and Dark Deal (Although cast time). The majority of those skills either scale with max health or don't contain diminishing returns, I know that technically an additional 20% (12% is more likely) could be added on to Dragon's Blood heal, but that isn't much for StamDK DPS and it comes with strings attached. There is also obsidian shard, but if you're DPS you run the risk of your heal not even healing yourself but the group's tank. Since Dragonknight is suppose to be stand your ground, they need a reliable heal. At the very least, they need a heal that won't punish you just because you're not knocking at death's door when you cast; and especially if that heal costs 4.3k in magicka...

Any information about that conversation with the dev team would be greatly appreciated.

Quantum_V · June 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

@Quantum_V

Hey Quantum, was there any discussion about Green Dragon Blood as well? Particularly when it comes to the what is meant to be stamina/tank morph costing 4.3k in resources and both morphs only scaling with missing health? I know Tanks can use Balance to help sustain magicka but that is locked behind 7 levels of book finding in the Mages Guild skill line. However, the other non-tradition healer classes have much better options for self-healing. NB has Killer's Blade, Mark Target, and Dark Cloak while Sorcerer has 2 pets (whose heals cost about 1k less in magicka), Blood Magic passive, Surge, and Dark Deal (Although cast time). The majority of those skills either scale with max health or don't contain diminishing returns, I know that technically an additional 20% (12% is more likely) could be added on to Dragon's Blood heal, but that isn't much for StamDK DPS and it comes with strings attached. There is also obsidian shard, but if you're DPS you run the risk of your heal not even healing yourself but the group's tank. Since Dragonknight is suppose to be stand your ground, they need a reliable heal. At the very least, they need a heal that won't punish you just because you're not knocking at death's door when you cast; and especially if that heal costs 4.3k in magicka...

Any information about that conversation with the dev team would be greatly appreciated.

Hey, @Raraaku !

We didn’t specifically talk about a direct change to Dragonblood when it comes to DK tanking as it wasn’t suggested as a major pain point during the feedback gathering.

With that said, stamDK was a big topic of conversation, we did state that the class doesn’t get much from the DK class itself – ultimately resorting into acquiring utility through other skill lines. So we suggested changes that could help stamDK via passives, like altering Elder Dragon, World in Ruins, Helping Hands and Battleroar and potentially some active skill morphs. Changes that revolved around mDK and sDK were also oriented towards Coagulating Blood and wings.

We did have a very strict time restriction so we couldn’t cover everything. We do keep frequent contact with ZoS and future meetings are being scheduled. So make sure to keep sending feedback!

Thank you for understanding.

Kronuxx · June 2018

@Quantum_V The two biggest pain points I will list are for Stam DK.

They are:
1) Several useless passives. Elder dragon, world in ruin are the two main ones. Elder Dragon could be something along the lines of: 1 point increase fire/poison damage by 1%, and 2 points increase fire/poison damage by 3%. As for world in ruin, if you made the noxious breath have better utility, better damage, and easier to land, then yes World In Ruin could become a useful passive for Stam DK's.

2) Need better mobility and/or a stamina class heal. How you guys decide in order to make it balanced, I do not know, but we need something to help improve our survivability rather than having to depend on speed pots.

Raraaku · June 2018

Quantum_V wrote: »

Raraaku wrote: »

@Quantum_V

Hey Quantum, was there any discussion about Green Dragon Blood as well? Particularly when it comes to the what is meant to be stamina/tank morph costing 4.3k in resources and both morphs only scaling with missing health? I know Tanks can use Balance to help sustain magicka but that is locked behind 7 levels of book finding in the Mages Guild skill line. However, the other non-tradition healer classes have much better options for self-healing. NB has Killer's Blade, Mark Target, and Dark Cloak while Sorcerer has 2 pets (whose heals cost about 1k less in magicka), Blood Magic passive, Surge, and Dark Deal (Although cast time). The majority of those skills either scale with max health or don't contain diminishing returns, I know that technically an additional 20% (12% is more likely) could be added on to Dragon's Blood heal, but that isn't much for StamDK DPS and it comes with strings attached. There is also obsidian shard, but if you're DPS you run the risk of your heal not even healing yourself but the group's tank. Since Dragonknight is suppose to be stand your ground, they need a reliable heal. At the very least, they need a heal that won't punish you just because you're not knocking at death's door when you cast; and especially if that heal costs 4.3k in magicka...

Any information about that conversation with the dev team would be greatly appreciated.

Hey, @Raraaku !

We didn’t specifically talk about a direct change to Dragonblood when it comes to DK tanking as it wasn’t suggested as a major pain point during the feedback gathering.

With that said, stamDK was a big topic of conversation, we did state that the class doesn’t t get much from the DK class itself – ultimately resorting into acquiring utility through other skill lines. So we suggested changes that could help stamDK via passives, like altering Elder Dragon, World in Ruins, Helping Hands and Battleroar and potentially some active skill morphs. Changes that revolved around mDK and sDK were also oriented towsards Coagulating Blood and wings.

We did have a very strict time restriction so we couldn’t cover everything. We do keep frequent contact with ZoS and future meetings are being scheduled. So make sure to keep sending feedback!

Thank you for understanding.

No worries, I understand y'all were on a serious time limit compared to the sheer amount of content that needed to be covered with the team. I definitely agree with the problems facing StamDK in terms of having to turn to non-class skill lines for utility abilities. I hope that Green Dragon Blood also joins in the conversation alongside Coagulating Blood as they both share the same root problem of that particular skill.

hakan · June 2018

apperantly theyve heard our voice!

now i hope the same thing about stamsorc too. (talking about identity and all that)

Integral1900 · June 2018

Like some others have mentioned the whole stamin poison thing was a bit of a disappointment, one of the best things about the old stam dk was buffing up that great burning blade and laying about you in a storm of orange fire with that oh so satisfying whump as baddies turned into little piles of ash, I mean green claws is a great dot but the sound and visual is a pale shadow of the version we used to share with magic. In all honesty, do you want the foe to just keel over to a poison dot... or do you want to wind up some big showy move with your huge burning blade and have them explode in a ball of flames.... ohhhhh it makes me feel happy and fuzzy just thinking about it...

Narvuntien · June 2018

I am just going to say I am pretty satisfied with my MagDK PVE DPS atm, the summerset buffs are much appreciated.

Sticking points
1. So I play with 300 ping and the cast time on Eruption is extremely awkward for me, there is stop of animation of my character and I am not sure if I am lagged or casting the ability this causes me to double cast (this very expensive ability) or simply not cast it (cancel it) when I tried to light attack between my next skill. Could I get a better animation for this ability.
2. It is disappointing that Flames of Oblivion gives Prophecy but you still want to slot inner light because it also gives a lot more magicka and mag regen.

Oxalias · June 2018

Dk are supposed to be the tankier class, but after playing one for a couple of years, zos has made tanking harder and harder, to the point where I feel proud of not dying to a couple of guys, if they aren't running bleeds and other dots. Dk's are versatile enough when it comes to the damage they are reducing. Allthough people call perma blocking tanks "troll builds" "Idiots" It's still a playstyle and has(had) a really useful presence in helping a group in alliance war, but now it's just sad how little tanking is possible. Not enough damage mitigation, popular forms of damage like bleeds make pure tanking a lost art. It's really sad and frustrating. Sets like nikulas and beckoning steel exist, and even guard, but people do so much bypassed damage, that it's impossible to tank. (No-cp perspective) - Yes blocking is cheaper in cp. Doesn't mean it should be impossible in no-cp

Tetrafy · June 2018

Identity is huge, Stam Dk has lost it. I main a Stam Dk Dps originally was a tank. And it underperforms in every situation. Im fairly experienced when it comes to top play and Im struggling against the much better stam Warden and various other more meta classes. It's hugely noticable stam Dk needs its id back better sustain, better heals and some sort of stam morphs of whip a spammable and perhaps a finisher. The class just seems very outdated after all the nerfs. The class should be scary if someone gets up close. Nightblade can walk up throw its burst and even if I survive my heal is trash because loldefile and no good heal. Or else I have to go all heavy and throw no damage but survive it just doesnt rewards aggressive high burst gameplay of dps and tanks just arent viable either anymore.

WaltherCarraway · June 2018

Current state of Dragonknight

grizzly375 · June 2018

I play a Stam DK as main, and I have to agree with most that (a) there's no real "identity" to the Stam DK's playstyle. I run a RG, and find that I don't have QUITE the sustain issues that some are talking about, but I'm also probably not running my skills anywhere near the speed that top players do.

If I had to list two top "pains" it would be (a) lack of a decent self heal, and (b) lack of Class Unique powerful DPS skills.

I do agree I'd much rather return to yesteryear of flaming weapons over poison - but that's more cosmetic and "feel" than anything. I'd like to have a stamina morphed spammable/execute skill - whip is the obvious choice, if a bit clunky...

Aedaryl · June 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.