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[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

  • Anti_Virus
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Ok, any DK suffers from 2 big issues that have not been updated until since 2014

    1- Passives: most DK passives are bad, and some of them are nearly useless. Things like World in ruin or Searing heat are too situational and favor only one playing style: HA S/B DK. There were some good passives that got a nerf hammer without a clear reason, like helping hands and Battle Roar and which are quite meh nowadays. But there's one passive above all of them that is clearly an insult to all DKs in ESO: Elder Dragon. It's a health recovery passive in a class that needs to go Vamp to get extra movility. I mean, seriously? Extra health recovery for sloting tanking skills? C'mon. You can pass from that passive, saving 2 skill points and nothing, really nothing is gonna change. You will still be a vampire with reduced health recovery. So please, have a look at that.

    2- The second problem has to do with the dmg oriented line, Ardent Flame: Ardent flame is the worst dmg line in the game. Only has 2 viable skills (Whip and SS) and none of them benefits from the only passive that increases dmg (WiR). Ok, Searing heat increases Searing strike dmg... a 3%. When you compare that number to the amount of dmg any sorc gets for any physical or lightning dmg, you feel you have been fooled. And that dmg increase does not affect your main spammable (which has a morph that increases the dmg of your ardent flame skills in 100 spell/wpn dmg, which is nothing). That was ok before One Tamriel when Dks had access to a set like old Silks of the Sun, which increased your flame dmg a 5%. On top of that, half of the passives only work with skills in the line, so no chance to increase extra dmg with other skills.

    I really believe that having a look to those two points could improve DKs in general.

    I feel like this is for PvP, because FOO, breath and standard are used. I disagree with ardent flame comment.

    Breath is semi viable, and cauterize is actually amazing for solo. Though I wish it had a center on me function for BGs.
    Chains gapcloser is so so. Its dependent on running a fire staff for the empower to be any use, and clunky AF, send, wait, pull yourself, but they fixed the height issues.
    Can't say standard is that good, it has potential as a coordinated effort, but "stund ur grund" is dead.

    I always recommended that shifting standard changes into a PBAoE with 250 ult cost maybe change defile to minor.
    Let the sun melt your body so that you may flow through the rivers of time.
  • Quantum_V
    Class Representative
    Hey everyone!

    I'll be taking a very close look at this thread specially. With that said, feel free to mark me (and other class reps) in other threads that you guys believe to be interesting and could be constructive.

    Thanks! Let's do our best!
    Quantum - Magicka DK

    Youtube Channel

  • Gallagher563
    1: Sustain is the first issue. I like the changes they made with Summerset but I think 700 Mag or Stamina on burning or poison would allow for cleaner rotations for the average player. This would also mean that you could run a light attack rotation without heavy attacking when solo.
    2. Lack of execute in any form.
  • MaxwellC
    #1 Flames of Oblivion turned back into an AoE: Stamina DKs lack a good class AoE that could benefit them on both spectra of the game (PvE/PvP) . PvE it helps with the DoT damage/status up-time increase & better damage overall + ability to affect more than one target with our passives. PvP is the same thing as well but we will now have a better utility to fight more targets since warmth again would be on them + we're able to reliably find hidden targets after our stealth detect potion runs out.

    #2 Better more stamina offensive skills: IMO make fragmented shield an offensive ability tied to stamina DKs (cost magicka scales with max stamina/weapon damage & does physical damage). Also get rid of stonefist & make it into a ability that'll benefit us Stamina DKs but also us Mag DKs.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
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  • DemonDruaga
    1. Support skill costs, managable on mag dk, a real pain on stam dk.
    2. Stam DK-> really poor pvp healing for the tanky sustain class it claims to be. Since there isn't a way dk can really mitigate dmg anymore ( perm block is a legend) their healing needs to be improved.
    Ardor // Dunkelsicht // Pakt
  • Solariken
    1. Magicka skill costs need to be reevaluated. Many are too high (Dk is not the only class suffering from this problem however).

    2. Seriously though, stamina whip.
    Edited by Solariken on June 1, 2018 4:22AM
  • Star_Carrier
    I'll keep it short and simple. I'm speaking for Magicka DK in PVP.

    1. Mobility, We lack mobility in a major way. Wings was a step in the right direction but it needs immunity.
    2. Sustain, With changes to sustain as a whole in the game I feel dk has very poor sustain. This is mostly due to poor passives.
  • Baphomet
    I honestly don't get all the hate DKs have been subject to since they were kings of the hill back in 1.5.

    Pretty much all the features they've enjoyed that were useful have been nerfed or changed to being semi-useless.

    My top priority for DKs would be to simply give them back what worked!

    - increase the range of petrify back to 15 meters (you nerfed this but empowered rune cage?)
    - make power lash undodgeable again (one of DKs only assured way to land damage and self-heal)
    - change back to the previous "empower system" so that empowering chains will allow for a powerful (+20%) follow-up attack.
    - revert molten armaments so that it applies to partially charged heavy attacks (DKs lacks single target DPS (in PvP) and their attacks are easily countered, so they need something that hurts more when they hit)
    - Dark talons back to 8 m radius (with super high movement speeds, perpetual dodge-rolling and CC-immunity everywhere, this ability needs a higher success rate again)
    - Remove the 3 sec. cooldown on power lash (why even this nerf? We like to help our team mates with targets they have CC'ed and it is the DKs only "execute" together with dragon leap)
    - Revert obsidian shield back to last patch (the new changes are just rubbish)

    Look at the two ultimates dragon standard and magma armor. They are severely outdated.
    - Dragonknight standard as an immobile ultimate needs to deal significantly more damage to be worth it. The healing debuff is sweet, but it really needs to hurt for your opponent when you enter the AoE. It should litterally say "welcome to my domain", followed by an evil laugher, to all foes who enter it.
    - Magma armor is functioning alright to some extend, but give it some sort of big aura effect when it deals damage in a larger AoE.
    - None of the above ultimates should cost more that 200!
    - The Psijic Order
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  • Thraben
    1.) Fiery Breath and its morphs now have a range of 20m and do more initial damage.

    Reason: In PvP, StamDKs have no real group utility while being vastly out-dpsed by the group utility stam classes Warden and StamSorc. This change brings them in line with the Warden´s Scorch ability.

    2.) Cinder Storm now has an increased radius of 8m

    Reason: This change brings the skill in line with the usual radius of other ground based healing skills while increasing the DK´s group utility with a reliable large-area slow.
    ~ Benthragand, Beschwörer~

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    DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf SOTHA SIL (EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.

    DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on SOTHA SIL (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.
  • ecru
    This is sort of a general thing when it comes to pvp, but IMO DoTs are terrible in general in ESO and this is hurting DK a lot. Passively applied bleeds are more viable than actively applied dots because of how stupidly easy dots are to remove. The amount of damage that purges are able to mitigate from DKs compared to other classes is extremely out of step with how much typical healing abilities can actually heal for and should be addressed if DK is ever going to be viable. Dots are simply too ineffective and too easily mitigated. Dots like claw/breath/embers should not be purgeable IMO, or if they are, a penalty should be applied in the form of damage that is a percentage of the damage of the dot.
    all trials cleared on HM
  • Enslaved
    1.) sDK is by far slowest of all stamina classes in ESO. What I suggest is minor expedition boost whenever we use class related dots for 3-5 seconds.
    2.) DK in general is dot based class, making it suffer greatly against purging and shielding enemies. make it so that if purged, next class related dots hit for more, capped at 50% extra damage compared to non purged dots. Also, make class related dot damage dealing more damage to shielding enemies, because they completely evade status effects such are poisoned/burning etc anyways.
    Against Aldmeri Doorminion
  • Still_Mind
    MDK perspective:

    1) Class Identity In Ruins (bad pun on class skill intended).

    DK is positioned as a stand-your-ground class with limited mobility, but formidable defenses and control, damage reflection.

    What do we have now, after massive redesigning and a large amounts of direct and indirect nerfs is a rather clumsy melee mage with limited mobility, mediocre damage mitigation, decent control, decent pressure and good (if somewhat situational) "healing through damage" mechanics.

    Damage reflection? Neutered by the increased number of unreflectable skills in PvP, unreflectable bosses in PvE.

    Damage mitigation? Nothing most other classes don't have, aside the Earthen Heart Ultimate, which is often too expensive to be useful, and, frankly, often just delays the inevitable. Shield Wall is cheaper and feels more useful overall. Iron Skin and spell resist are a nice bonus, but don't make or break a playstyle.

    Rivers of fire and blood through stacked Standard, Eruprion, Flames of Oblivion, Inhale and Talons? Poof, gone. FoO is now a buff and a cheap turret. Eruption is an inefficient ground DoT or heal, Standard isn't often good enough to justify its cost.

    DKs used to be a perpetuum mobile in thick battle due to dynamic Ultimate generation and Battle Roar. Used to be OP, but nerfing both resulted in sustain issues, and I don't feel encouraged to get into the thick of the fight as a DK anymore.

    To summarise: DKs were OP, but nerfs killed their class identity, and I feel like playing a clumsy generic melee character with fire-themed visuals.

    2) Bad passives, many skills are outdated, or need redesign.

    I look at DK passives, then Sorc passives, then NB passives, then Warden passives and sigh, thinking that probably only Templars have them as bleak and unimpressive as DKs.

    As for the skills-many feel like their concept is raw, or not up to date with current game dynamics.

    A few examples:

    Our resist buff skill essentially just buffs resists in case of stam build, and does unimpressive damage for a mage build, plus some healing received bonus from passives that could be triggered by another skill. Stamsorcs, for one, have an impressive PBAOE DoT (what FoO should be, essentially) on their buff, Wardens have the super-sweet Minor Protection, NBs have their resists buffed pretty much passively by using rotational skills.

    Molten Weapons and its morphs needs to be more defined in terms of stam/magicka identity, possibly grant additional effects to heavy attacks, or even convert physical damage to magical for sword and board MDKs.

    Current iteration of Eruption makes me shed bitter tears. Scrap the poor man's lightning flood/healing springs and give it useful buffs/debuffs such as evasion, minor protection,
    minor resolve, minor fracture, minor defile-SOMETHING.
    Edited by Still_Mind on June 1, 2018 10:29AM
    "I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!"
  • Fvh09NL
    For me:

    1. Elder Dragon Passive:
    This is only useful for extremely niche builds, change this to like 4% health, stamina and magicka recovery per draconic power ability slotted (numbers can be adjusted accordingly).
    2. Inferno Ability:
    I would prefer this to be a pbaeo skill, since this will make it a lot more reliant (especially the cautarize morph for healers). The FoO morph should have a small range (5m) since it fits the "in-your-face" fight style. The cautarize morph should have a bit larger range to make it good for healers. In both cases the numbers should be adjusted because the skill goes from hitting 1 person every x seconds to an aoe skill. You can keep it firing of every 5 or 4 seconds or change the values significantly and let it fire every 1 or 2 seconds.
  • Wing
    1- unique flavor for stamina compared to other classes. stamina DK right now is comprised almost entirely of skills OTHER then class skills: rally and vigor for heals, executioner as an execute, uppercut/bloodthirst as spamables, etc. the only thing being a DK brings to the table is wings. all other classes have a much more identifiable flavor.

    2- better at being a dragon knight. they are supposed to be the best tanks and most dangerous class up close, they have NO mobility of any kind in class (the chains move speed is ridiculous) and ALSO NO RANGE of any kind in class, templar also has no mobility but has multiple ranged abilities including spamables, executes, heals, etc. to make up for this.

    DK has no mobility and no range and is given nothing to make up for this, they are no tankier then any other class. if they are to have no mobility bonuses they should have better access to immovable or snare immunity bonuses for durations, there not fast fine but they are never slow, always a threat (like mist form without the speed boost). if they are not ranged make more of their aoes persistent like lightning storm and make chains more effective, it should not be blockable, dodgeable, grant cc immunity, etc.

    DK should be slow, but constant moving, threat. just like the concept of its damage, DOT's, slow but constant damage, and if you dont respect either you will pay for it. all forms of DK should play more like magicka DK.

    Edited by Wing on June 1, 2018 11:39AM
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  • Raraaku

    I'm starting to see a trend, you probably do as well, particularly when it comes to sustain and ability costs (which ties into sustain) for both Magicka and Stamina DK builds. Ability costs in particular is a glaring issue; compared to the other classes. While Ardent Flame costs are reduced, but important utility skills that both Tanks and StaminaDKs rely on costs are way too high. Earthen Heart abilities in particular needs to be looked at, their costs renders the Helping Hands passive (which is suppose to help Stamina sustain) essentially useless. One possible solution for that is to swap the cost of Spiked Armor and Obsidian Shield. Stamina's only 2 heal options also costs a ridiculous amount of our most limited resource, nearly all other classes have a stamina heal for stamina characters or have an affordable heal... Dragonknight does not at all.

    Compared to other classes, the Dragonknight's utility/survival skills (the hallmark of the Dragonknight) cost too much and are therefore a HUGE problem for sustain, particularly for Stamina and Tank builds. Dragonknights biggest flaw as a DPS is the lack of an execute or source of burst damage, but (in theory) they are suppose to make up the lack of burst with survivability coupled with powerful DoT abilities... Well, it's hard to survive when the vast majority of your defensive skills and heals cost 4k+ in magicka resources; and that's particularly true if you're a Stamina Dragonknight.

    Dragonknight's Dragon Blood also needs to scale off max health and not missing health, that's just a huge disadvantage to us compared to say Sorcerer's Unstable Clannfear and Nightblade's Killer's Blade and Mark Target. The other two classes have entire skill lines dedicated to healing so I won't touch on them. Obsidian Shard also needs to be looked at in some way.

    So here's probably my two biggest problems with Dragonknight has right now:

    1. Sustain/Ability Costs are too high compared to other classes

    2. Dragon's Blood needs to scale off of Max Health, not Missing Health.
    Back from a much needed break. || I like having too many projects and working on them all at once.

    Tank Enthusiast || CP: 445 || Stormproof

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    Erryndril Telvaux: EP || Dunmer || Magicka Dragonknight || DPS || Level: 25
    Uzara gra-Khalari: DC || Orc || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [2H/DW] || Level: 15
    Solomon Motierre: DC || Breton || Magicka Sorcerer || DPS || Level: 20
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  • Joxer61
    Can we separate these threads by PVP and PVE respectively? I ask only because it would make it a tad easier to navigate them while not having to go thru 12 pvp comments trying to find anything of relevance to pve. That's all, thanks. ;)
  • geophonic_ESO
    I play Magicka DK, however, my number one concern about this class is:

    1: Lack of Stamina Morphs for Class Skills. A Stam-DK mostly feels like someone exclusively using weapon and/or guild line skills, yet barely touches the class skills.

    Secondly, many of the class skills feel as if they do not fit to this class.

    2: Rework less used / useless / underperforming skills.
    • Inferno: Damage morph is too unreliable to hit the target the DK is actively fighting (except duels of course). The Cauterize heal is also not directed at the caster or ally who might need it (again, in duels or very small scale it is more of use than in larger battles). In both scenarios, either PvE or PvP it would make more sense to have a skill which heals/damages that can be directed to where it needs to go.
    • Dark Talons: Both morphs have a too small radius to be effective both PvE and PvP. For PvE purposes it would be more of use when the DK is the Tank to control the mobs, and in PvP it is often barely possible to even catch someone with this short range (if the range gets increased we might have to talk about a root-immunity-period for PvP).
    • Ash Cloud: I admit I have so far not used the heal morph for heals, since I am not using my DK as a Healer, yet I see that the area of effect is much too small for the little heal it provides. Even in a PvE situation it is too small for a group to be in it a significant amount of time to get the heal. The damage morph is ok-ish sort of. It has some use in PvE for Boss fights without alot of movement but is easily avoided in PvP.
    • Healing and/or damage through Inferno/Ash cloud: Given the DoT-Nature of the DK I could imagine a change of these skills in the same style as i.e. the Hurricane for Sorcerers: A heal/damage DoT centered around the caster (after all it is World in Flames so why not set the DK on fire to deal damage to everyone getting close to him?).

    This list could go on with my own personal preferences of the performance of certain skills and expecially their aesthetics, but those above are my immediate candidates for a change.
  • The Uninvited
    The Uninvited
    Magicka DK

    1. Sustain
    2. Sustain (sorry, I mean ability costs)
    Pandora's Promise (rip) | LND | Ping Spikes | Phoenix Ascending | Pactriotic

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  • AverageJo3Gam3r
    Summon three orbs of healing flames for 15 seconds. Whenever you or an ally falls below 40% health, an orb is consumed healing them for X. This skill has a 5 second cooldown per ally.

    Animation: three cauterize flame orbs that float around the player's character model, similar to ebon armory. When an orb is consumed, it shoots from the character model and disappears.

    Design Discussion: The issue with cauterize on the live server is that it is not guaranteed to proc when healing is actually needed. It's a less consistent heal over time. If it procs and everyone is at full health--it's wasted. If you or an ally drops to low health--the player is likely already casting another heal when cauterize procs. The proposed design addresses these issues by providing guaranteed conditions that the heal will be received. It provides a heal that is different from a reactive heal such as a templar's honor the dead, while pairing nicely with igneous shield--the shield protects allies while the cauterize flames are being applied. Lastly, it provides nice flavor and counterplay in PvP: the class without an execute has an anti-execute heal.

    The 5 second cooldown exists to avoid imbalancing PvP. If a player could receive all three heals in a short amount of time, it would be too difficult to kill dragonknights. Also, in-depth testing would have to be performed around cauterize's interaction with the sorcerer's endless fury and implosion. If a sorcerer lines up burst so that a DK goes from above 40% health into the execute range of endless fury and/or implosion before cauterize has a chance to proc it's heal, the DK will feel like they were unfairly killed. The heal should proc prior to endless fury or implosion calculations occurring due to cauterize's higher health percentage condition.

    Reflective scale cleanses all snares, provides two seconds of snare immunity, and two seconds of minor expedition.

    Dragon fire scale no longer deals additional damage but now reflects three projectiles per target.

    Revert base skill time to four seconds

    Design Discussion: This is an example of providing interesting decisions between morphs. The proposed changes to reflective scale thematically make me feel like I am a dragon hopping around the battlefield. The proposed changes to dragon fire scale make me feel like Darth Vader in Rogue One--shrugging off all challengers while I slowly march across the battlefield. To balance the stronger reflect, the number of projectiles is reduced to three so a LA-skill-LA will remove the reflect in slightly longer than a single global cool down. Because it will only (functionally) reflect one skill, the DK must be more skillful in applying wings in a 1v1 situation to reflect the skill they'd like to reflect. But in outnumbered situations, dragon fire scale will scale much better. Lastly, the extra damage is removed to reduce the penalty that other classes face when accidentally attacking a DK who has wings up. Reflective scale represents a different playstyle--a more mobile DK using chains and wings to quickly move across the battlefield. In both cases, the duration is reduced to provide more skillful counterplay. The DK should be unable to reflect all projectiles sent at them. Instead, they should skillfully reflect the most damaging projectiles like snipe, dark flare, crystal fragments, or the spectral bow.
  • Savos_Saren
    Mag and Stam DK here:

    #1. Sustain (for both)

    #2. Execute for MagDK (put it on Burning Embers, Flame Lash, or even Stone Fist), more stamina options for StamDK (stamina hardened armor or physical damage choking talons).

    Honestly, as many people have suggested: We need a rework of our class passives. How is it that Cauterize receives no benefits (absolutely 0%) from it's own passives in its skill line? Obviously, we need a evaluation!
    Want to enjoy the game more? Try both PvP (crybabies) and PvE (carebears). You'll get a better perspective on everyone's opinion.

    PC NA AD
    Savos Saren
  • AndyMac

    I main a mDK in PVE and PVP so that' s my perspective.

    1. Sustain - the buff in Summerset is definitely helping with sustain - but mDK sustain is still well below what's required for endgame PVE and PVP. It needs a significant buff/ cost reduction pathway imo.

    2. Skill/ rotation cost is too high for the damage dealt - mDK's apply and reapply a set of dots and then weave with a whip - you can stack quite a bit of damage with this, but the cost is too high for the damage you deal.

    If we can't have an execute the cost of our rotation needs to come down a lot to compensate imo. Solutions like "Use Elf Bane" really won't cut it.

    I would like to add that I can't help but feel that this class - which has been such a fun class to play - has been gutted on purpose. It's almost like ZOS want people to abandon the firemage. It's very disappointing and hard to understand.

    I hope we see some real positives here that will get mDK's to a good place in ESO endgame.
    Anduiil - Dunmer mDK - EP
  • AlphaWolfBeast
    Soul Shriven
    1. Add a stam heal similar to vigor
    2. More stam morphs
  • CaliMade
    1: Snares and roots.
    Mobility is severly underrated in PvP. Being able to LOS your foes or just simply out ranging them(like long-arming whips on my magdk to out range Surprise attacks.) is extremely valuable way to reduce damage taken. The amount of damage mitigated by movement alone is a huge defining edge mobile classes have over immoble ones. Im not asking to have Dks kite like sorcs, just simply being able to remove the extreme amout of snares applied to you every second when in fights with multiple threats will go a long way. And if you feel this is making the classes too similar then maybe add a mechanic that benefits immobile builds specifically so we dont have to curse ourselves to use mist form. Maybe make major evasion easier to access for mag dk, maybe adding it to ash cloud?

    The snare removal on wings is nice but the plethora of abilities that apply snares make it very likely that a new snare or root will be applied before you can even make a move. adding a snare immunity duration will help immensly

    2: Stamina Dk morphs. More stamina morphs would be amazing for stam dk, stam inhale, stam whip, stam CC. I try and make use of my class abilites but cant due to magicka restrictions. Nearly 20k magic and 1200 recovery and i cant keep up with all the magic abilities and thier costs on a stam dk, wings costin over 3500, GDB costing over 4k, igneous costing nearly 4k for how little it does for you. Not to mention other things like keeping volatile armor up and using molten weapons. Its far too much magic and it really forces Stam dks to using the more bland and uniteresting weapon lines. This is the main reason ive been avoiding my stam dk as of late. The more dk abilities you slot as a Stam dk the more you actually become a magic dk.

    You can have 10 abilites excluding ultimates on a character. Theris is no reason half of those need to be magic if your a stam build.
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  • usmguy1234
    Does power lash give the heal even if it misses? Console pleb here...I know in summerset you still get defile if flare misses so it would be only fair if lash got the heal even if it misses.
    Zaghigoth- Orc Stamplar
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    Disclaimer: My comments are a little sarcasm mixed with truth. If you can't handle that don't respond to me.

  • BohnT
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Does power lash give the heal even if it misses? Console pleb here...I know in summerset you still get defile if flare misses so it would be only fair if lash got the heal even if it misses.

    Yes you get the heal.
    Edited by BohnT on June 3, 2018 12:54AM
  • ak_pvp
    usmguy1234 wrote: »
    Does power lash give the heal even if it misses? Console pleb here...I know in summerset you still get defile if flare misses so it would be only fair if lash got the heal even if it misses.

    You do get the heal, but the fact it can miss ticks me off though. Its the only procedural burst skill that can be endlessly prevented and then miss when set up.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
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