WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.
DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.
Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.
Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.
Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.
Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.
MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.
Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@ZOS_GinaBruno
You asked for 2 points so here are mine. Do with them as you wish.
1. Too many skills focused on Mag only. We have 2 stam morphs and the rest is all mag.
Mag DK relies a lot on class skills which makes the mag DK very CLASS heavy skill wise, which imo is perfect...
BUT the stam DK on the other hand has really only 2 skills and then it has to focus on weapon skills too much, negating the point of a class and making it far too easy to just duplicate the same setup on all classes. Needs more class focus on stam abilities.
2. No execute outside of weapon skills/passives/cps (butcher/traits(bloodthirsty).
Hope this helps.
Please, stop the "2 stam morphs" complaint. DK has 2 stam ultis too, which is way more than the rest of the classes. Instead of asking for a new stam morph, ask for a rework on corrosive armor.
Fair is fair. Stamsorcs has NO stam ulti neither stam dmg skills besides hurricane.
stam nb has five direct stam morphs not including utlitiy skills used for stam, sorc has a lot of passives for stam aswell(auto execute, weapon damage, stam regen ect.) cmon now.
Some class has to use the weapon skills. Do you think anyone will ever use 2H or DW on a stamDK if whip has a stam morph? Everyone will run s/B
1. incorrect, only stam dk and sorc has to run weapon skill lines.
2. you're damn right stam dk would use SnB with stam whip what's your point?
Then, what's the point on having those skill lines? Just the passives?
Edit: I mean, I wish we had a stam whip, but it is very unlikely that will happen because it will impact on the use of those weapon skills
not all dk abilites would be on bars, SnB for example still has good skills like reverb bash for CC. and Shield charge for gap closer.
From ZoS logic:
1- In the early versions of the game, there where magicka skills (class and MG) and stamina skills (weapons and FG)
2- When they decided to buff stamina, they picked up 2 classes to have stamina spammable (NB/Templar) and other 2 that doesn't have it (sorcs and DK), consider both classes have access to elemental dmg
3- When they introduced Frankenstein monster (Warden), they made something weird: they gave them a stamina spammable from range and and a stam CC with high dmg. Later they changed that. Also they gave frankie elemental dmg (in an almost useless form)
I think they won't go for a stam spammable on sorcs and DKs because they worked a lot creating weapon skill lines. They need to keep them somewhat relevant. IMHO what they did wrong with DK was moving towards poison not having enough skills based on poison dmg in the weapon skill lines. Maybe they should have kept flame dmg on stam morphs while making a skill or passive that allowed you to add flame dmg to weapon skills, thus making those weapon lines more appealing for DKs and giving them some sort of identity. In the case of sorcs they solved it way better, just pairing shock dmg to physical dmg. There's plenty of physical dmg skills so when I play sorc I don't feel capped while using S/B, DW/ 2H or bow because everyone of them has good synergyes with the sorc passives.
my 2 cents:
1- Make DK great again. Get rid of poison dmg, bring back flame stam morphs escalating out of stamina (MoA and thaum are more relevant than elemental expert right now, and spending 43 points in apprentice to get 10% extra flame dmg is not so complicated considering mDKs have to spend 75 on thaum)
2- Bring back ancient (yeah, the first one) Molten weapons, that added extra flame dmg to all your weapon attacks. That will give DKs some of the indentity that has been stripped from patch to patch.
Poison whip? my balls... I want a flamming sword
WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.
DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.
Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.
Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.
Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.
Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.
MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.
Uhh what...no. Stam is Warden>NB>Templar>Sorc>DK. Not sure where you've been but rune cage is beastly for stam sorc, with the coming of Summerset. That aoe cleave minor maim for Stam NB has actually worked quite well. Lastly Purge is an amazing ability. Unless you've forgetten, bleeds are a meta for stam builds. The only hard counter to bleeds are....? You guessed it, Purge.
WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.
DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.
Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.
Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.
Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.
Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.
MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.
WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.
DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.
Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.
Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.
Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.
Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.
MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.
Uhh what...no. Stam is Warden>NB>Templar>Sorc>DK. Not sure where you've been but rune cage is beastly for stam sorc, with the coming of Summerset. That aoe cleave minor maim for Stam NB has actually worked quite well. Lastly Purge is an amazing ability. Unless you've forgetten, bleeds are a meta for stam builds. The only hard counter to bleeds are....? You guessed it, Purge.
WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.
DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.
Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.
Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.
Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.
Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.
MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the DK healing. In terms of cost ratio, DK doesn't have any great healing skills that don't cost 4k+ in resources and even then, some of them are either situational (heal is based off of multiple targets getting hit by AoE), or they have issues with the heal itself (obsidian shard healing other player instead of self, Bosses cannot proc Power Lash, etc.) Sorcerers have several pets, a crit based heal, dark deal (though w/ a cast time), and blood magic passive. NB have Killer's Blade, Mark Target, Dark Cloak, Leeching Strikes.
DK's biggest heal also scales on missing health rather than max heal, forcing you to wait until you use it in order to get some kind of return on the resource cost. MagDK does have Burning Embers, but Stam doesn't.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.
The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.
The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Stop saying that major expedition +lingering health potions + sprint are good mobility, you are giving up 336 stam and mag regen by using while you also need to run FM---> losing the only burst heal or you run medium and have to spam atleast every 3.5 seconds while giving up all regen while sprinting + losing stam.
You should start playing the things before talking about them.
My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.
The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.
The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.
I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana
Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.
I don't think he said you have to running lingering. You still have good ol Immov/Stam/Speed for sustain/CC immunity for your burst.Stop saying that major expedition +lingering health potions + sprint are good mobility, you are giving up 336 stam and mag regen by using while you also need to run FM---> losing the only burst heal or you run medium and have to spam atleast every 3.5 seconds while giving up all regen while sprinting + losing stam.
You should start playing the things before talking about them.
Not sure if trolling. If you think DK has the WORST healing with passives like Burning Heart and Fragmented Shield, then I don't believe you're playing the class. If anything, we get screwed by Defile, which is a whole other issue on itself.WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.
The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.
The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.
I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana
Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.
reflective plate is OP vs ranged magicka NB, because all their damage abilties execpt incap are reflectable.
But this is not a DK problem, swallow soul should be unreflectable.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
I have very little, read virtually none, experience in PvP but I do see a couple of problems with this:
MagDK: Cauterize is a HoT that requires 5 seconds before each tick outside of the initial tick. Power lash has a 3 second cool down, and in PvE it's utterly useless in dungeons or trials. While being invested in Magicka will help, the resource cost to stamina return for Helping Hands is just plain terrible. The change to combustion has helped. Damage is strong.
StamDK: Once again, Helping Hands does not help, particularly with a StamDK due to skill cost of Earthen Heart abilities. Your good healing is going to require 8k+ in magicka if you're healing yourself in order to gain the major mending and the heal itself. Where are you getting Major Expedition and Snare immunity from??? That's a new one for me if that's a class mechanic, if it's not part of the class skill lines it doesn't have any bearing on the conversation. Stamina's damage sources (poison) is very easily mitigated.
My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.
The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.
The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.
I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana
Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.
reflective plate is OP vs ranged magicka NB, because all their damage abilties execpt incap are reflectable.
But this is not a DK problem, swallow soul should be unreflectable.
Woah there, lets not ruin the worst defensive ability further, lets make certain dots go through shields with that logic. IMO pulse and bird both also need to be reflectable.
Wings does need a massive revamp. 3/4s, 3 projectiles per person. Same high cost. It would then be able to be easily broken through 1v1, and have a less uptime. But then becomes useful in outnumbered situations which DK suffers in. The snare removal morph can also be a deflect instead of a reflect, so its less offensive.
My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.
The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.
The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.
I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana
Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.
reflective plate is OP vs ranged magicka NB, because all their damage abilties execpt incap are reflectable.
But this is not a DK problem, swallow soul should be unreflectable.
Woah there, lets not ruin the worst defensive ability further, lets make certain dots go through shields with that logic. IMO pulse and bird both also need to be reflectable.
Wings does need a massive revamp. 3/4s, 3 projectiles per person. Same high cost. It would then be able to be easily broken through 1v1, and have a less uptime. But then becomes useful in outnumbered situations which DK suffers in. The snare removal morph can also be a deflect instead of a reflect, so its less offensive.
Well, having all your damage execpt your ultimate being reflectable is not something balanced for magblade. They need something reflectable.
Scales should be a a good way to mitigate damage, not a hard counter to everything that's ranged.
I agree with you on the fact that scales should reflect 3 projectiles per person and last 3s.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)
If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.
And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).
This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.
Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)
If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.
And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).
This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.
Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.
lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).
And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.
Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.
Because sprint is cheaper.
Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc
Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)
Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.
So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)
If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.
And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).
This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.
Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.
lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).
And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.
Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.
Because sprint is cheaper.
Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc
Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)
Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.
So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)
If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.
And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).
This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.
Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.
lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).
And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.
Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.
Because sprint is cheaper.
Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc
Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)
Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.
So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.
I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.
Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)
If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.
And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).
This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.
Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.
lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).
And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.
Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.
Because sprint is cheaper.
Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc
Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)
Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.
So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.
I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.
Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.
l2p.
That's all.
I can chase sorcerer on heavy armor with sprint + major expedition.
The reason why you die more on stamina DK than on magicka sorc is because you think you have less mobility.
If each time you would streak away with your sorc, you sprint away, you seeing you having similar mobility.
As a DK, you don't think to run. But you can, and you should. It's a question of playstyle, if you think your not mobile and you need to "stand your ground", then you will die outnumbered. If you see the ennemies comming and decide to run away for spread them just like a sorc would do, it will work.
Sprint is cheap when you look at streak expodential cost.
You can chase streaking sorc with your heavy armor DK if you want. If u run medium (with fortified or impreg of course) it will be even more easier.
When I play as a sorc with stam Dk friend, if we decide to retreate at the same time, we will be togever at the same time.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)
If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.
And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).
This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.
Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.
lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).
And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.
Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.
Because sprint is cheaper.
Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc
Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)
Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.
So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.
I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.
Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.
l2p.
That's all.
I can chase sorcerer on heavy armor with sprint + major expedition.
The reason why you die more on stamina DK than on magicka sorc is because you think you have less mobility.
If each time you would streak away with your sorc, you sprint away, you seeing you having similar mobility.
As a DK, you don't think to run. But you can, and you should. It's a question of playstyle, if you think your not mobile and you need to "stand your ground", then you will die outnumbered. If you see the ennemies comming and decide to run away for spread them just like a sorc would do, it will work.
Sprint is cheap when you look at streak expodential cost.
You can chase streaking sorc with your heavy armor DK if you want. If u run medium (with fortified or impreg of course) it will be even more easier.
When I play as a sorc with stam Dk friend, if we decide to retreate at the same time, we will be togever at the same time.
I chose to retreat on a stamdk earlier than on a Magsorc because of the lack of mobility and the worse performance, it doesn't matter.
In combat kiting and mobility is much better on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, if you haven't understood that after 4 years and at this time i feel sorry for you but then i remember when i could catch you on a stamplar without major expedition and then i know why you think mobility on a sorc is bad because you literally make the worst use of streak and the whole sorc toolkit I've ever seen by someone saying she's a decent magsorc
I mean i could go on how much better the situation for a Magsorc is after streaking compared to someone sprinting but we don't want to touch on that, i guess that's a bit too much to think about
Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »WaltherCarraway wrote: »Current state of Dragonknight
Please learn to play, really.
outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.
(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)
Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.
You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.
And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.
This picture is extremely false.
First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.
There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.
I will do it right.
Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.
Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)
Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).
Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).
Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).
Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)
Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)
Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)
Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).
Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)
Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)
If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.
And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).
This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.
Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.
lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).
And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.
Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.
Because sprint is cheaper.
Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc
Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)
Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.
So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.
I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.
Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.
l2p.
That's all.
I can chase sorcerer on heavy armor with sprint + major expedition.
The reason why you die more on stamina DK than on magicka sorc is because you think you have less mobility.
If each time you would streak away with your sorc, you sprint away, you seeing you having similar mobility.
As a DK, you don't think to run. But you can, and you should. It's a question of playstyle, if you think your not mobile and you need to "stand your ground", then you will die outnumbered. If you see the ennemies comming and decide to run away for spread them just like a sorc would do, it will work.
Sprint is cheap when you look at streak expodential cost.
You can chase streaking sorc with your heavy armor DK if you want. If u run medium (with fortified or impreg of course) it will be even more easier.
When I play as a sorc with stam Dk friend, if we decide to retreate at the same time, we will be togever at the same time.