[Class Rep] Dragonknight Feedback Thread

ak_pvp · June 2018

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.

DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.

Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.

Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.

Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.

Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.

MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.

Kronuxx · June 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.

DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.

Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.

Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.

Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.

Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.

MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.

Uhh what...no. Stam is Warden>NB>Templar>Sorc>DK. Not sure where you've been but rune cage is beastly for stam sorc, with the coming of Summerset. That aoe cleave minor maim for Stam NB has actually worked quite well. Lastly Purge is an amazing ability. Unless you've forgetten, bleeds are a meta for stam builds. The only hard counter to bleeds are....? You guessed it, Purge.

Anti_Virus · June 2018

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

xynode wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

You asked for 2 points so here are mine. Do with them as you wish.

1. Too many skills focused on Mag only. We have 2 stam morphs and the rest is all mag.
Mag DK relies a lot on class skills which makes the mag DK very CLASS heavy skill wise, which imo is perfect...
BUT the stam DK on the other hand has really only 2 skills and then it has to focus on weapon skills too much, negating the point of a class and making it far too easy to just duplicate the same setup on all classes. Needs more class focus on stam abilities.
2. No execute outside of weapon skills/passives/cps (butcher/traits(bloodthirsty).

Hope this helps.

Please, stop the "2 stam morphs" complaint. DK has 2 stam ultis too, which is way more than the rest of the classes. Instead of asking for a new stam morph, ask for a rework on corrosive armor.

Fair is fair. Stamsorcs has NO stam ulti neither stam dmg skills besides hurricane.

stam nb has five direct stam morphs not including utlitiy skills used for stam, sorc has a lot of passives for stam aswell(auto execute, weapon damage, stam regen ect.) cmon now.

Some class has to use the weapon skills. Do you think anyone will ever use 2H or DW on a stamDK if whip has a stam morph? Everyone will run s/B

1. incorrect, only stam dk and sorc has to run weapon skill lines.

2. you're damn right stam dk would use SnB with stam whip what's your point?

Then, what's the point on having those skill lines? Just the passives?

Edit: I mean, I wish we had a stam whip, but it is very unlikely that will happen because it will impact on the use of those weapon skills

not all dk abilites would be on bars, SnB for example still has good skills like reverb bash for CC. and Shield charge for gap closer.

From ZoS logic:

1- In the early versions of the game, there where magicka skills (class and MG) and stamina skills (weapons and FG)
2- When they decided to buff stamina, they picked up 2 classes to have stamina spammable (NB/Templar) and other 2 that doesn't have it (sorcs and DK), consider both classes have access to elemental dmg
3- When they introduced Frankenstein monster (Warden), they made something weird: they gave them a stamina spammable from range and and a stam CC with high dmg. Later they changed that. Also they gave frankie elemental dmg (in an almost useless form)

I think they won't go for a stam spammable on sorcs and DKs because they worked a lot creating weapon skill lines. They need to keep them somewhat relevant. IMHO what they did wrong with DK was moving towards poison not having enough skills based on poison dmg in the weapon skill lines. Maybe they should have kept flame dmg on stam morphs while making a skill or passive that allowed you to add flame dmg to weapon skills, thus making those weapon lines more appealing for DKs and giving them some sort of identity. In the case of sorcs they solved it way better, just pairing shock dmg to physical dmg. There's plenty of physical dmg skills so when I play sorc I don't feel capped while using S/B, DW/ 2H or bow because everyone of them has good synergyes with the sorc passives.

my 2 cents:

1- Make DK great again. Get rid of poison dmg, bring back flame stam morphs escalating out of stamina (MoA and thaum are more relevant than elemental expert right now, and spending 43 points in apprentice to get 10% extra flame dmg is not so complicated considering mDKs have to spend 75 on thaum)

2- Bring back ancient (yeah, the first one) Molten weapons, that added extra flame dmg to all your weapon attacks. That will give DKs some of the indentity that has been stripped from patch to patch.

Poison whip? my balls... I want a flamming sword

I think they can expand on the poison themed of the class some more, but yeah personally I would perfer using the weapons in my hand to deal damage.

Toc de Malsvi · June 2018

Kronuxx wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.

DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.

Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.

Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.

Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.

Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.

MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.

Uhh what...no. Stam is Warden>NB>Templar>Sorc>DK. Not sure where you've been but rune cage is beastly for stam sorc, with the coming of Summerset. That aoe cleave minor maim for Stam NB has actually worked quite well. Lastly Purge is an amazing ability. Unless you've forgetten, bleeds are a meta for stam builds. The only hard counter to bleeds are....? You guessed it, Purge.

Poster is still talking about healing there not performance.

Ragnarock41 · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

Raraaku · June 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.

DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.

Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.

Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.

Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.

Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.

MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the DK healing. In terms of cost ratio, DK doesn't have any great healing skills that don't cost 4k+ in resources and even then, some of them are either situational (heal is based off of multiple targets getting hit by AoE), or they have issues with the heal itself (obsidian shard healing other player instead of self, Bosses cannot proc Power Lash, etc.) Sorcerers have several pets, a crit based heal, dark deal (though w/ a cast time), and blood magic passive. NB have Killer's Blade, Mark Target, Dark Cloak, Leeching Strikes.

DK's biggest heal also scales on missing health rather than max heal, forcing you to wait until you use it in order to get some kind of return on the resource cost. MagDK does have Burning Embers, but Stam doesn't.

Savos_Saren · June 2018

All right. Getting back on point here.

Stamina DK suggestions:

-Make Choking Talons poison damage (so it can benefit from World in Ruin passive)
-Make Deep Breath poison damage (so it can benefit from World in Ruin passive)
-Change Venomous Claw to minor vulnerability (to one target at a time) instead of the DOT increase (because see below)

Magicka DK suggestions:

-Make Stone Giant flame damage
-Change Volatile armor damage return to flame damage instead of magic damage
-Change Empowering Chains from empower to minor berserk on the next attack

Suggestions that effect both Stam and Mag DK:

-Give Reflective Scale a 1.5 second snare immunity
-Change Elder Dragon to max health vs health recovery
-Revert Flames of Oblivion back to its old style and scale off higher resource (so it does AOE poison or flames)
-Convert Warmth to 10/20 vice 15/30 and add "Damage Over Time increases by 10% every 2sec for enemies below 50% health"

ak_pvp · June 2018

Kronuxx wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.

DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.

Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.

Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.

Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.

Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.

MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.

Uhh what...no. Stam is Warden>NB>Templar>Sorc>DK. Not sure where you've been but rune cage is beastly for stam sorc, with the coming of Summerset. That aoe cleave minor maim for Stam NB has actually worked quite well. Lastly Purge is an amazing ability. Unless you've forgetten, bleeds are a meta for stam builds. The only hard counter to bleeds are....? You guessed it, Purge.

That is for healing, DK out heals templar and NB.

Raraaku wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

This isn't true. Don't spam it everywhere.

DK is worst mobility, but templar isn't "good." Magplar is barely above MagDK. Stamplar mobility is barely good, due to janky jabs and no mobility buffs, just purge.

Healing on a DK isn't bad at all. Mag: its Temp>Warden>=DK>NB>Sorc. Even the stam end, its Warden>Sorc>DK>Templar>NB. So its average. But since being a pure tank is the only defense built into DK, resistance is however a problem, the tank class is less tanky than warden by a great margin, and around comparable to templars (mag) non warden tanks have been nerfed to all hell.

Sustain, yep, problematic even still, too expensive for little gain, decent offstat, which is more beneficial on the Mag end, but still decent on stam. Reliance on block is a problem. Stamplar is worse though.

Damage: MagDK is potentially very high, but practically kind of low since defense is tank based, so sacrificial, going shield with light is squishier than other classes, but possible. StamDK is low. No denying. BleedDK is possible I suppose, but sacrifices defense like the mag side.

Group contribution: Yep. MagDK is a worse magsorc with shorter CCs and less damage, outtanked by warden. (also has maiming talons) StamDK is useless. Both aren't needed.

MagDK isn't bottom, but its not good either. StamDK is bad, but at least be factual.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the DK healing. In terms of cost ratio, DK doesn't have any great healing skills that don't cost 4k+ in resources and even then, some of them are either situational (heal is based off of multiple targets getting hit by AoE), or they have issues with the heal itself (obsidian shard healing other player instead of self, Bosses cannot proc Power Lash, etc.) Sorcerers have several pets, a crit based heal, dark deal (though w/ a cast time), and blood magic passive. NB have Killer's Blade, Mark Target, Dark Cloak, Leeching Strikes.

DK's biggest heal also scales on missing health rather than max heal, forcing you to wait until you use it in order to get some kind of return on the resource cost. MagDK does have Burning Embers, but Stam doesn't.

The healing on a MagDK is good. Cauterize is amazing for a defacto HoT, which is super cheap, and grants crit, lash heals even when evaded, embers is embers, and coag just in emergencies, then add the free 12% heal amp.

StamDK has good heal amps being able to use fragmented commonly, and again 12% amp, but doesn't match up to warden or sorc, however outheals stamplar and NB. Its not the worst, like the OP said.

Aedaryl · June 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

BohnT · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Stop saying that major expedition +lingering health potions + sprint are good mobility, you are giving up 336 stam and mag regen by using while you also need to run FM---> losing the only burst heal or you run medium and have to spam atleast every 3.5 seconds while giving up all regen while sprinting + losing stam.

You should start playing the things before talking about them.

Ishammael · June 2018

Etaniel wrote: »

My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.

The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.

The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.

I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana

Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.

Aedaryl · June 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Stop saying that major expedition +lingering health potions + sprint are good mobility, you are giving up 336 stam and mag regen by using while you also need to run FM---> losing the only burst heal or you run medium and have to spam atleast every 3.5 seconds while giving up all regen while sprinting + losing stam.

You should start playing the things before talking about them.

Lingering + speed potions are actually meta, and they are the best potions you can use on stamina toon (only rollerblade can potentially not run it, because they have major exepedition from roll dodge with bow and their playstyle is basically not being touched). The heal it bring is just INSANE and the speed make any stamina toon more mobile than a streak spamming magsorc.

Did you saw the new Lingering + speed + Health potion ? It's even better now.

If you play this game, you would know major expedition + sprint is better than streak, you can chase sorcerer streaking away just by sprinting. And the sorc will be OOM far before you will be OOS.

A snare removal is used by every stamina toon, because it just too strong. You are not giving up something. Even some magicka build run 2h for the snare removal.

FM instead of rally will be soon a memory for Stamdk, wings will get their immunity next patch (and that's good)

Also, you don't need to be on perma snare immunity. Use your snare removal/immunity when you need it.

Aedaryl · June 2018

Ishammael wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.

The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.

The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.

I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana

Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.

reflective plate is OP vs ranged magicka NB, because all their damage abilties execpt incap are reflectable.

But this is not a DK problem, swallow soul should be unreflectable.

Ulfgarde · June 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Stop saying that major expedition +lingering health potions + sprint are good mobility, you are giving up 336 stam and mag regen by using while you also need to run FM---> losing the only burst heal or you run medium and have to spam atleast every 3.5 seconds while giving up all regen while sprinting + losing stam.

You should start playing the things before talking about them.

I don't think he said you have to running lingering. You still have good ol Immov/Stam/Speed for sustain/CC immunity for your burst.

Major expedition + sprint IS mobility. Most of the other stam classes go through the same "sacrificing" process you mention. Even without med, major expedition is enough mobility. I'm not sure what else you would need in any other case. StamDK isn't exactly designed as a mobility-intensive class, and if you need more mobility, chances are you're being zerged and you won't win that fight anyway.

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Not sure if trolling. If you think DK has the WORST healing with passives like Burning Heart and Fragmented Shield, then I don't believe you're playing the class. If anything, we get screwed by Defile, which is a whole other issue on itself.

Raraaku · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

I have very little, read virtually none, experience in PvP but I do see a couple of problems with this:

MagDK: Cauterize is a HoT that requires 5 seconds before each tick outside of the initial tick. Power lash has a 3 second cool down, and in PvE it's utterly useless in dungeons or trials. While being invested in Magicka will help, the resource cost to stamina return for Helping Hands is just plain terrible. The change to combustion has helped. Damage is strong.

StamDK: Once again, Helping Hands does not help, particularly with a StamDK due to skill cost of Earthen Heart abilities. Your good healing is going to require 8k+ in magicka if you're healing yourself in order to gain the major mending and the heal itself. Where are you getting Major Expedition and Snare immunity from??? That's a new one for me if that's a class mechanic, if it's not part of the class skill lines it doesn't have any bearing on the conversation. Stamina's damage sources (poison) is very easily mitigated.

ak_pvp · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.

The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.

The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.

I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana

Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.

reflective plate is OP vs ranged magicka NB, because all their damage abilties execpt incap are reflectable.

But this is not a DK problem, swallow soul should be unreflectable.

Woah there, lets not ruin the worst defensive ability further, lets make certain dots go through shields with that logic. IMO pulse and bird both also need to be reflectable.

Wings does need a massive revamp. 3/4s, 3 projectiles per person. Same high cost. It would then be able to be easily broken through 1v1, and have a less uptime. But then becomes useful in outnumbered situations which DK suffers in. The snare removal morph can also be a deflect instead of a reflect, so its less offensive.

temjiu · June 2018

PvE specific perspective:

1) Stamina based skills: need more. Great ideas listed already, Dev's just need to pick them up. Sta whip or Sta Breath, whatever. We lack AoE stamina skills, so more of that would be better. Thinking a Stamina option for breath would be awesome.

2) Magika builds sustain: sucks. needs help. cheaper costs would be an easy way to start w/o having to deal with balancing magika returns and such. whatever work, we just need more sustain

BONUS REQUEST:
rework passives. Can't say what already hasn't been said. Many are outdated and don't fit the class, and the ones that do have been nerfed instead of improved. overall they just suck.

Aedaryl · June 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

I have very little, read virtually none, experience in PvP but I do see a couple of problems with this:

MagDK: Cauterize is a HoT that requires 5 seconds before each tick outside of the initial tick. Power lash has a 3 second cool down, and in PvE it's utterly useless in dungeons or trials. While being invested in Magicka will help, the resource cost to stamina return for Helping Hands is just plain terrible. The change to combustion has helped. Damage is strong.

StamDK: Once again, Helping Hands does not help, particularly with a StamDK due to skill cost of Earthen Heart abilities. Your good healing is going to require 8k+ in magicka if you're healing yourself in order to gain the major mending and the heal itself. Where are you getting Major Expedition and Snare immunity from??? That's a new one for me if that's a class mechanic, if it's not part of the class skill lines it doesn't have any bearing on the conversation. Stamina's damage sources (poison) is very easily mitigated.

I'm speaking about PvP mainly

if you go in PvP and look at your combat metrics, you will see cauterize as your first or second best healing source, it's actually a good HoT.

Power lash heal have the same healing tooltip than vigor from a stamina toon, but in 2s. It's a very good heal.

You underestimate helping hand a lot.

The power of this passive is not how much magicka your trade for stamina, you don't use it like Dark Deal. The power of it is that you can gain stamina available when you block.

If you use fragmented shield or fossilize every 6s, Helping hand equal 333 stamina recovery which is very good.

Major expedition come from the BiS potions for stamina toons, aka lingering + speed (+ health) potions.

Fragmented shield is BiS for stamina DK, 4.5s of Major mending is just too good to not take. (why 8k cost ?)

if every stam dk use lingering + speed potion because it's the best thing atm, it go in the conversation about PvP.

It's like saying to not speak about harness magicka when you speak about sorcerer balance.

Aedaryl · June 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.

The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.

The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.

I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana

Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.

reflective plate is OP vs ranged magicka NB, because all their damage abilties execpt incap are reflectable.

But this is not a DK problem, swallow soul should be unreflectable.

Woah there, lets not ruin the worst defensive ability further, lets make certain dots go through shields with that logic. IMO pulse and bird both also need to be reflectable.

Wings does need a massive revamp. 3/4s, 3 projectiles per person. Same high cost. It would then be able to be easily broken through 1v1, and have a less uptime. But then becomes useful in outnumbered situations which DK suffers in. The snare removal morph can also be a deflect instead of a reflect, so its less offensive.

Well, having all your damage execpt your ultimate being reflectable is not something balanced for magblade. They need something reflectable.

Scales should be a a good way to mitigate damage, not a hard counter to everything that's ranged.

I agree with you on the fact that scales should reflect 3 projectiles per person and last 3s.

ak_pvp · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

My main concern is reflective plate. OP in a 1v1 against a ranged class, but become utterly useless when facing multiple foes as they need to be refreshed every second basically.

The snare removal tool is nice, but gives no immunity, which means you get snared back instantly. Something like a 3 sec snare immunity would be enough.

The heal from draw essence/deep breath is way too low.

I don't agree that reflective plate is OP against a ranged class... anymore. Here is why
1. Crushing shock is unreflectable.
2. Status effects go through the reflect. (e.g. major defile)
3. Rune Cage unblockable CC @ 30m (needs a nerf)
4. It costs ~3.5k mana

Otherwise, I agree with your other statements.

reflective plate is OP vs ranged magicka NB, because all their damage abilties execpt incap are reflectable.

But this is not a DK problem, swallow soul should be unreflectable.

Woah there, lets not ruin the worst defensive ability further, lets make certain dots go through shields with that logic. IMO pulse and bird both also need to be reflectable.

Wings does need a massive revamp. 3/4s, 3 projectiles per person. Same high cost. It would then be able to be easily broken through 1v1, and have a less uptime. But then becomes useful in outnumbered situations which DK suffers in. The snare removal morph can also be a deflect instead of a reflect, so its less offensive.

Well, having all your damage execpt your ultimate being reflectable is not something balanced for magblade. They need something reflectable.

Scales should be a a good way to mitigate damage, not a hard counter to everything that's ranged.

I agree with you on the fact that scales should reflect 3 projectiles per person and last 3s.

I'd make cripple unreflectable. Because then its putting delayed pressure on the DK, sort of like curse/fury, but preventing wings from being useless by having the spammables just ignore it. Especially since it is only projectiles anyway, it should at least work uniformly with pulse/bird/swallow which are all projectiles. Cripple however I have no idea why its a projectile.

Ragnarock41 · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

kojou · June 2018

1. Reduce the ultimate cost for Standard of Might.

2. Make the Burning Embers heal a HoT.

Ragnarock41 · June 2018

kojou wrote: »

1. Reduce the ultimate cost for Standard of Might.

2. Make the Burning Embers heal a HoT.

Duuuude I would kill to have embers on my sDk, Its like a mini rally that costs much less than rally. How can you not love embers?

Aedaryl · June 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).

And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.

Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.

Because sprint is cheaper.

Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc

Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)

Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.

So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.

Ragnarock41 · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).

And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.

Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.

Because sprint is cheaper.

Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc

Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)

Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.

So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.

Implying magsorc having low mobility is bullcrap. I'm sorry. It is just bullcrap. Nothing stops you from running expedition.

BohnT · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).

And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.

Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.

Because sprint is cheaper.

Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc

Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)

Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.

So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.

I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.

Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.

Aedaryl · June 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).

And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.

Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.

Because sprint is cheaper.

Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc

Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)

Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.

So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.

I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.

Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.

l2p.

That's all.

I can chase sorcerer on heavy armor with sprint + major expedition.

The reason why you die more on stamina DK than on magicka sorc is because you think you have less mobility.

If each time you would streak away with your sorc, you sprint away, you seeing you having similar mobility.

As a DK, you don't think to run. But you can, and you should. It's a question of playstyle, if you think your not mobile and you need to "stand your ground", then you will die outnumbered. If you see the ennemies comming and decide to run away for spread them just like a sorc would do, it will work.

Sprint is cheap when you look at streak expodential cost.

You can chase streaking sorc with your heavy armor DK if you want. If u run medium (with fortified or impreg of course) it will be even more easier.

When I play as a sorc with stam Dk friend, if we decide to retreate at the same time, we will be togever at the same time.

BohnT · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).

And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.

Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.

Because sprint is cheaper.

Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc

Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)

Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.

So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.

I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.

Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.

l2p.

That's all.

I can chase sorcerer on heavy armor with sprint + major expedition.

The reason why you die more on stamina DK than on magicka sorc is because you think you have less mobility.

If each time you would streak away with your sorc, you sprint away, you seeing you having similar mobility.

As a DK, you don't think to run. But you can, and you should. It's a question of playstyle, if you think your not mobile and you need to "stand your ground", then you will die outnumbered. If you see the ennemies comming and decide to run away for spread them just like a sorc would do, it will work.

Sprint is cheap when you look at streak expodential cost.

You can chase streaking sorc with your heavy armor DK if you want. If u run medium (with fortified or impreg of course) it will be even more easier.

When I play as a sorc with stam Dk friend, if we decide to retreate at the same time, we will be togever at the same time.

I chose to retreat on a stamdk earlier than on a Magsorc because of the lack of mobility and the worse performance, it doesn't matter.
In combat kiting and mobility is much better on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, if you haven't understood that after 4 years and at this time i feel sorry for you but then i remember when i could catch you on a stamplar without major expedition and then i know why you think mobility on a sorc is bad because you literally make the worst use of streak and the whole sorc toolkit I've ever seen by someone saying she's a decent magsorc

I mean i could go on how much better the situation for a Magsorc is after streaking compared to someone sprinting but we don't want to touch on that, i guess that's a bit too much to think about

Aedaryl · June 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).

And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.

Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.

Because sprint is cheaper.

Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc

Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)

Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.

So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.

I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.

Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.

l2p.

That's all.

I can chase sorcerer on heavy armor with sprint + major expedition.

The reason why you die more on stamina DK than on magicka sorc is because you think you have less mobility.

If each time you would streak away with your sorc, you sprint away, you seeing you having similar mobility.

As a DK, you don't think to run. But you can, and you should. It's a question of playstyle, if you think your not mobile and you need to "stand your ground", then you will die outnumbered. If you see the ennemies comming and decide to run away for spread them just like a sorc would do, it will work.

Sprint is cheap when you look at streak expodential cost.

You can chase streaking sorc with your heavy armor DK if you want. If u run medium (with fortified or impreg of course) it will be even more easier.

When I play as a sorc with stam Dk friend, if we decide to retreate at the same time, we will be togever at the same time.

I chose to retreat on a stamdk earlier than on a Magsorc because of the lack of mobility and the worse performance, it doesn't matter.
In combat kiting and mobility is much better on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, if you haven't understood that after 4 years and at this time i feel sorry for you but then i remember when i could catch you on a stamplar without major expedition and then i know why you think mobility on a sorc is bad because you literally make the worst use of streak and the whole sorc toolkit I've ever seen by someone saying she's a decent magsorc

I mean i could go on how much better the situation for a Magsorc is after streaking compared to someone sprinting but we don't want to touch on that, i guess that's a bit too much to think about

If you can catch me without major expedition, it's because I don't want to run away, or because I nearly OOM from fighting before. You know about expodental cost increase of streak ? That's all.

Streaking away in fight is very similar than casting snare removal + sprint : If you don't have landscape for LoS, people will gap close to you, or sprint to catch you. Both have advantage and disadventage. Sprinting for 1-2s in a tower is much better for line of sight than streaking, sprinting is also better when the floor is sloping. But streak will be better for suprise stun + going away.

Having sprint (with major expedition) for free (don't need 2 skill in bar) and snare removal + immunity make stamina character better for mobility.

Anti_Virus · June 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

WaltherCarraway wrote: »

Current state of Dragonknight

Please learn to play, really.

outside of the ''worst healing'', everything on that list, checks out for stamDk.

(I think this chart is mostly bad cause it does not split stamina and magicka, It compares both apples and oranges, which is the wrong way to do things.)

Also I believe you're just triggered cause it says sorcs have good survivability. Which is true.

You don't have to worry about defiles, executes,status effects,crits.. none of that. And like it or not you can streak out of any fight you don't like.

And to all the people asking for flame abilities on stamDK, if you want fire theme, go play a Magicka Dk.

This picture is extremely false.

First, you can't make that board with 5 lines.

There is a magicka and stamina playstyle for each class.

I will do it right.

Magicka DK : Great healing (Power lash, cauterize, burning embers) / Great in heavy / good in lightresistance (superior block management with helping hand, battle roar) / Great damage in light or good in heavy (lot of dots, strong spammable) / Good sustain (magdk can sustain with 500 mag recovery and 2 infused reduce cost)) / Worst mobility.

Stamina DK : Good healing (Major mending)/ Best resistance (Best block managment from helping hand and battle roar)/ Worst damage (nothing special)/ Great sustain (heavies + helping hand + battle roar)/ good mobility (sprint + major expedition + Snare immune and removal)

Magicka Sorcerer : Worst healing (healing ward only)/ Good resistance (3 shields)/ Good damage (best delayed burst, but no pressure or defile)/ Worst sustain (the only class hwo need a entire dedicated sustain set + high costs) / Mediocre mobility (anything stamina have best mobility cuz Major expedition + sprint > streak and stam also have snare removal + immunity).

Stamina Sorcerer : Good healing (surge but no passive)/ Average resistance (nothing special but sill stamina) / Great damage (passives + hurricane)/ Good sustain (dark deal + heavies + passives) / Best mobility (Srpint + major and minor expedition + streak + snare removal and immunity).

Magicka NB : Good healing (HoTs + healing ward)/ Great resistance (cloak + shadow Image + minor main)/ Greater damage (amazing burst + strong pressure + defile)/ good sustain (siphonings + low cost on skills + passive)/ mediorcre mobility (major expediton + shadow Image).

Stamina NB : average healing (siphonings but no passive) / Great resistance (Cloak + shadow Image + rolldodge + major evasion) / Best damage (Great burst + great pressure + defile)/ Great sustain (heavies + siphoning + cloak + passives)/ Great mobility (major expedition + sprint + snare immunity and removal + cloak + shadow Image)

Magicka Templar : Best healing /good resistance (passives + purge)/ Average damage (if u touch the target...) / Great sustain (minor magicka steal + HoTD + Channeled focus) / Bad mobility (Purge only)

Stamina Templar : Average healing(nothing special)/ Average resistance (purge) / great damage (PoTL + Jabs) / Terrible sustain (nothing for infight sustain) / Good mobility (snare reomval and immunity + purge + sprint and major expedition)

Magicka Warden : Greater healing / good resistance (shimmering shield) / Terrible damage / Good sustain (netch) /Average mobility (major expedition + port to an ally).

Stamina Warden : Greater healing (burst heal/panic ultimate heal) / Greater resistance (shimmering shield) / Great damage (shalks) / Good sustain (netch)/ Good mobilty (major expedition + sprint)

Fair enough ,that is a better list , but I still think its wrong on some parts. Like for example, warden actually has better damage mitigation(I know, I've played both classes in no-cp and cp, stamden survives a lot longer, has access to both minor and major protection, plus they got this amazing ability called shimmering shield.) , and Dk does not have natural major expedition. No the empowering chains does not count.
chains are horrible, they cost a lot and stamDK magicka sustain is terrible due to wasting 3k on resist buffs and 4k on major mending.(add another 3700 if you want to use wings. So yeah. good luck sustaining that.)

If you meant that stamDK mobility is good cause of potions, you gotta realize everybody has access to those potions. You're literally telling me that a stamDK is more mobile than a magsorc, cause we can run pots, which is bullcrap.

And stamina sorcerer actually sustains A LOT better than a Dk, in a real fight that especially. This has been mentioned too many times already. Unless both targets are blocking, Dk has the second worst stamina sustain of all classes.(Only beats stamplar).

This is already proven by the fact that Dks just recently got a buff to their healing+ their sustain. Why? because our healing and sustain is not as great as people think.

Other than that I agree. We've got some good things going for us, but when you factor everything , stamDK ends up lacking on a lot of areas.

lingering + speed potions are META, everyone hwo is stamina use it (maybe some rollerblade don't). When you discuss balance, you also need to consider the buff the potion give you, since it's BiS (for years now).

And yes, a stam Dk because he is 99% running major expedition + speed potion have better mobility than a magsorc.

Because sprint + major expedition is better than streak.

Because sprint is cheaper.

Because Sprint + speed stamina character can literally chase streaking magsorc

Because Sprint doesn't mean you sacrifise 2 skills for having less mobility than free sprint (U need streak and dark conversion as a magsorc)

Because Stamina have access to snare removal and immunity, something magsorc don't have.

So yeah, magicka sorcerer is the 6 on the mobility ladder. Because anything stam HAVE major expedition so they are more mobile by definition.

I mean that's why everyone dies less on a Magsorc than on a stamdk, especially because they don't get zerged, or streak and scroll carrying got prohibited, must be something about sprinting being better.

Stop lying to yourself, the "mobility" you get with sprinting and major expedition isn't good, it's no way cheap because you don't get any regen while sprinting aswell as no damage mitigation like BoL which means you have to stop sprinting more often than not.

l2p.

That's all.

I can chase sorcerer on heavy armor with sprint + major expedition.

The reason why you die more on stamina DK than on magicka sorc is because you think you have less mobility.

If each time you would streak away with your sorc, you sprint away, you seeing you having similar mobility.

As a DK, you don't think to run. But you can, and you should. It's a question of playstyle, if you think your not mobile and you need to "stand your ground", then you will die outnumbered. If you see the ennemies comming and decide to run away for spread them just like a sorc would do, it will work.

Sprint is cheap when you look at streak expodential cost.

You can chase streaking sorc with your heavy armor DK if you want. If u run medium (with fortified or impreg of course) it will be even more easier.

When I play as a sorc with stam Dk friend, if we decide to retreate at the same time, we will be togever at the same time.

Stop clogging the thread with your crap. IF you want to argue that DK Stam or Mag is OP/ has best mobility please create a new thread and discuss there, this one is about dragonknight issues, not my x is worse than y so y doesn't deserve a buff