1500 crowns per outfit slot (1 slot) just under $1200 for every slot

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

Velaethia wrote: »

You seem to think the majority of people are cool with the pricing.

Nope, I don't think that. I say "I don't know". I'm assuming, though, that ZOS decided on the prices based on data they have and that shows that enough people would be cool with it. Or buy even if they're uncool with it.
All I say is :
- that we, customers, don't have the data to know if it's a bad or good decision from ZOS
- that I disagree with the tone with which some people express their dissatisfaction.

As to the rest...
- It DOES NOT compare with McDonald's and Burger King. When you switch restaurant you don't have to start over a journey that takes several months or even years.
- Again you get confused between the role of a boss and that of a customer : you pretend to be worried that ZOS may go bankrupt while your real wish is to get more stuff for less crowns. Not saying this wish isn't legit, but don't hide it behind a worry about ZOS.
- I have 15 characters. I would like to buy them all outfit slots. Given the price, it may take 10 or 20 years or even longer than the lifetime of the game (or i may drop ESO before that). If the slots were cheap, I could buy all the slots I need in maybe months or a year, or perhaps weeks. But that would not change the fact that I will not buy extra crowns beyond my sub. As a result, that makes ZERO difference to ZOS. They would not get any extra penny from me EVEN IF the slots were cheap. That's why ESO+ crowns, while not "free" strictly speaking, are not relevant for ZOS. Also don't forget that ZOS' goal is to sell CROWNS, not items per se.
- There's nothing "ridiculous" in differentiating between "wanting" and "needing" and not making a fuss about stuff you want but don't need and cannot get. And believe me, I am fairly frustrated that my dream house (the Hubalajad Dawnlight Palace whatever it's called) is crown only. And horrendously expensive. And I won't have it. But that's how life goes and it won't prevent me from sleeping tonight).
- As far as I know, Electronic Arts and Apple both have terrible images of ripping their customers off - far worse than ZOS - and are still doing extremely well. In spite of you (and me) not buying from them. Because... not everyone behaves like you and me as customers.

TL/DR : saying that the pricing is bad FOR YOU is fine. Your opinion, your criticism. Saying it's bad for ZOS isn't fine because you don't know that and neither do I. Is it that big of a deal anyway ?

Anthony_Arndt · May 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Nope.
ESO+ crowns cost no extra money. Or, better said, they do not bring ZOS any extra income.

... So... many of the people criticizing the current pricing scheme have outright said that they can afford to spend money on the game, are ESO+ subscribers, are spending extra money on the game, still buy extra crowns for cosmetics and other fluff, and the only thing holding them back on Outfit Slots is the fact that ZOS is charging for one character's outfit slot 3x the price what EA... a company regularly recognized as being one of the worst in the US... charges for an account-wide slot in SWTOR.

SWTOR costs to unlock 8 (out of 16) slots account-wide for 8 characters.: $16.80
ESO costs to unlock 8 (out of... seriously, I don't even care enough anymore to look it up...) slots "account-wide" for 16 characters (8 NA and 8 EU): $1,736.

And you are not spending money on it at all.

You are literally the only participant in this thread defending them, but you are literally not putting your money where you mouth is. Even you are not spending any money on this system.

You're just dropping your freebie crowns. Something that we didn't even get when the game started but was only added later as encouragement to keep us subscribing when they stopped requiring a sub so that PSN and XBox players would get hit for double.

You keep comparing it to a worker's salary and say that no worker would turn down more money. I am an English teacher in Cologne, Germany. If I had half the number of possible characters and unlocked half of the outfit slots, it would cost me a ridiculous amount of money. Comparing my hourly as a full-time English teacher to the outfit cost unlock, this would be like if a school came along and offered me €1,550 per hour... yes, I would say "no" to that. And I would excuse myself, leave the building, and immediately go to the nearest police station. Because I would assume something was wrong with the company. With a disparity like that, my first instinct was that it was a mob front laundering money from drugs and/or human trafficking. That is how off this whole thing feels.

And I still maintain that the ESO outfit system is the best system in the whole MMO market. The only deviation is in the pricing.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- Tone and attitude : we're customers, not bosses. ESO is my first MMO and I'm kind of discovering what gaming communities are. Frankly I've never seen any other community, whether IRL or online, where this line (Customer/Boss) is so blurred by customers. If we want ZOS to listen to us, the basic condition for doing so is to remain polite, and in OUR place (users/customers), not theirs, because they have dozens of other constraints to deal with while making decisions for the game.

First MMO? And you think this is bad? Are you new to the internet too? This thread is pretty tame compared to typical Facebook groups. This is really tame and civilized compared to the ESO PvP forums... Or the SWTOR forums, or the LOTRO forums, or the WOW forums, or the AoC forums. This is the ninth MMO I've had an account on, and my 12th if you count MMOs where I played on a friend's account. Honestly, I have a toddler, so I'm probably forgetting some... ESO's forums have a more civilized tone and attitude than any other I've ever played on and this thread is better than most even by ESO's standards.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- Hypocrisy : all the accusations of "greed" while, at the same time, those people accusing are doing the exact same thing in their everyday life : optimizing work and effort vs. income and satisfaction.

That's rich. If I tried to charge €1,550 per hour, people would think I was insane. If I was offered €1,550 per hour I would literally assume they were mob.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- Confusing facts with hypothesis. We have no data from ZOS. Full stop. Stating as a fact that ZOS would make more profit with lower prices is flatout wrong. What if I told you I'm sure the sun will shine next week ? Without any meteorological data ? That's about the same. These people call ZOS incompetent and that's a lack of respect. Just like this person who states that this price can only be a bug, that needs to be fixed, and on top of that feel sorry for ZOS and the losses they're accumulating ! Now how silly and out of place is that ?

Industry standards are industry standards. You have no significant experience with the MMO industry or its standards by your own admission. Those of us with experience have all said that the outfit slots were significantly overpriced on the PTS and insanely overpriced on live. Even just compared to EA's flagship MMO, SWTOR. EA, the company renowned as one of the US's worst, most-greedy, least-customer-friendly company. EA, the company so greedy that their loot boxes changed EU law. And ONE slot for ONE character on ESO cost THREE TIMES MORE than an ACCOUNT-WIDE slot for ALL your SWTOR characters. Compared to EA's game, it would cost me an extra $1,719.20 for the SAME unlocks on ZOS's game.

Is the ESO outfit system better than the SWTOR outfit system? Yes, without a doubt.

Is it $1,719.20 better? NO Frigging way! That is insane!

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

- Entitlement and addiction. The level of "activism", outrage, and the vocabulary used in threads like this one leaves me quite... speechless. It almost sounds they're fighting for human rights, democracy or their daily bread and butter. This is totally out of proportion. I keep my true involvement for real causes (charity, environment, politics, whatever). Not for ESO - as much as I like this game. However, I am truly shocked when I see the lack of distance and proportions demonstrated by some posters here.

Absolutely nothing you said here relates to "entitlement" or "addiction". You just slapped those two words on to give yourself a pithy heading then wandered off into an bizarre non-sequitur.

Every single person criticizing the pricing scheme has posted, here and elsewhere, of how much they love the game and want it to succeed and, most importantly, continue. The last time I saw insane pricing like this, it was when LOTRO introduced horse armour. Every guild I knew faded or splintered, and many died within the year of Rohan. It was great content, great systems... and the pricing of the in-game item store for anything to do with horse armour turned off so many players that the game started withering until WB cut it loose and sold if off to another studio. I don't want that to happen here. ESO is my favourite MMO and I would like to see the developers be given the chance to fill in the map. (We've never seen Elsweyr... and this one would really like that.) I don't want to see the accountants kill a game when the developers have done so well bringing it to life. The developers being in control gives us a game like Highlander... the accountants being in control gives us Highlander II.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I think in general ZOS is being quite fair with its monetization systems - keeping it strictly cosmetics, avoiding P2W, etc...

In terms of what is in the shop, I agree. Their prices are a bit hit and miss when you consider that "account-wide" unlocks are actually only "server-wide" so you have to buy everything twice if you play on both NA and EU servers. When that is taken into account, everything runs form "ok but a little bit high" (most cosmetics) to "are you insane?" (The freaking elk... and the Outfit Slots.)

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

and many forumers are being impolite, entitled and unfair.

That makes me wish for the return of the "LOL" reaction. In this thread, I have seen little that one could describe as "impolite, entitled, or unfair." Of all the MMOs I have ever played, ESO's players are the least likely to ever be accused of being "impolite, entitled, or unfair." Even in contrast to LOTRO's forums where we were usually more likely to discus theoretical translations of Sindarin (Tolkien had no word for "cat") than we were to resort to being uncivil.

And if you think anything in this forum lacks for civility, I would recommend that you never play an FPS game or look at their forums. They make the worst of other MMO's forums (or Barrens Chat) look like a refined Oxford literature salon in comparison.

Morgul667 · May 2018

Im gonna go with LOL

Velaethia · May 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Velaethia wrote: »

You seem to think the majority of people are cool with the pricing.

Nope, I don't think that. I say "I don't know". I'm assuming, though, that ZOS decided on the prices based on data they have and that shows that enough people would be cool with it. Or buy even if they're uncool with it.
All I say is :
- that we, customers, don't have the data to know if it's a bad or good decision from ZOS
- that I disagree with the tone with which some people express their dissatisfaction.

As to the rest...
- It DOES NOT compare with McDonald's and Burger King. When you switch restaurant you don't have to start over a journey that takes several months or even years.
- Again you get confused between the role of a boss and that of a customer : you pretend to be worried that ZOS may go bankrupt while your real wish is to get more stuff for less crowns. Not saying this wish isn't legit, but don't hide it behind a worry about ZOS.
- I have 15 characters. I would like to buy them all outfit slots. Given the price, it may take 10 or 20 years or even longer than the lifetime of the game (or i may drop ESO before that). If the slots were cheap, I could buy all the slots I need in maybe months or a year, or perhaps weeks. But that would not change the fact that I will not buy extra crowns beyond my sub. As a result, that makes ZERO difference to ZOS. They would not get any extra penny from me EVEN IF the slots were cheap. That's why ESO+ crowns, while not "free" strictly speaking, are not relevant for ZOS. Also don't forget that ZOS' goal is to sell CROWNS, not items per se.
- There's nothing "ridiculous" in differentiating between "wanting" and "needing" and not making a fuss about stuff you want but don't need and cannot get. And believe me, I am fairly frustrated that my dream house (the Hubalajad Dawnlight Palace whatever it's called) is crown only. And horrendously expensive. And I won't have it. But that's how life goes and it won't prevent me from sleeping tonight).
- As far as I know, Electronic Arts and Apple both have terrible images of ripping their customers off - far worse than ZOS - and are still doing extremely well. In spite of you (and me) not buying from them. Because... not everyone behaves like you and me as customers.

TL/DR : saying that the pricing is bad FOR YOU is fine. Your opinion, your criticism. Saying it's bad for ZOS isn't fine because you don't know that and neither do I. Is it that big of a deal anyway ?

You are not a mind reader you do not know what my actual desires are. I do care about ZoS because like I said the relationship between customer and provider is symbiotic. Also is ZoS does poorly then the game may shut down. Which has a negative impact on me.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

@Anthony_Arndt

I'll try and keep it short ;-)

- No I don't spend any money on ESO beyond subbing. Anything wrong with that ? Do you think crown customers are... crowdfunders or something ... ? I keep strictly to the customer's place : buy or don't buy, vote with your wallet. I'm not stealing nor doing anything illegal nor abusing any system by "subbing only". And isn't "not buying" the most efficient way to tell someone their prices are too high ? Or their products too bad ?

- Yes I agree : crown store purchases should be truly account-wide (that is, on both megaservers) and I wish ZOS would fix that. That's unfair.

- I know there are far worse places on the internet than this forum, and far more aggressive gaming communities than this one. But there are also far better places and communities and I like to compare (and aim at) the best. If ESO community is better than many others, maybe it's linked to the fact that ZOS doesn't blindly follow "industry standards", don't you think ?

- A fellow player encouraged me to try "Secret World" and I did. Secret World is a 100% F2P model, and a truly amazing game. I thoroughly loved it. But... at a certain point, you can't beat enemies anymore, they're too strong. Why ? Because gear. And you cannot possibly upgrade your gear within a somewhat reasonable period of time unless... you sub.
That's where I realized how fair ZOS is, in comparison.

- The elk !!! Oh yes, this elk ! I remember when it came out. Best example ever. People were complaining all over the place, here and ingame, about the price of that elk. 4500 crowns, that was insane. I, although "brokenhearted", didn't buy it. But I don't count the incredible amount of people who were speaking out loud against the price, who were truly infuriated... and still bought it. There's always a big discrepancy between what people say, and what people actually do. Hence my argument that only ZOS knows our true behaviour in the end.
Oh, and I finally got the elk, over a year later, with crown gems from free crates. Beyond the enjoyment of the elk, I had a very nice feeling of having won a game within the game ;-)

Wayshuba · May 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TL/DR : saying that the pricing is bad FOR YOU is fine. Your opinion, your criticism. Saying it's bad for ZOS isn't fine because you don't know that and neither do I. Is it that big of a deal anyway ?

I'd say recent actions by ZoS are proving otherwise. Two recent examples:

1.) Current mega-expensive house offering. For the first time, ZoS is running it for two weeks rather than four days. So they are reading these threads and considering some of the suggestions.

2.) The forthcoming Crown Crate motif. Considering the forums are a "minority" as you like to say, it is a big enough minority that it also influenced ZoS's decision to also put the pages as drops in fishing in Summerset.

In any MMO I have ever played, people like to dismiss valid complaints on forums because it is just a "minority" of players. But that has always proven to be untrue. What it represents is a "sampling" of the players - and an important one at that. They are the players willing to tell you what is wrong and give the company a chance to fix it, whereas a larger part of the base will just leave without saying a word and a company is left guessing why so many players are abandoning their game.

It is foolish to ignore customers. Take one case in point with SWTOR when they introduced the Galactic Command System. They were told it would absolutely destroy the game. They completely ignored the feedback, because that was a vocal minority, and put it in the game anyway. What happened? Exactly what they were warned about - a mass exodus of customers very quickly.

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

This is why Fortnite does so well - nothing priced more than $20. Whereas ZoS just seems to keep escalating prices on digital items into the stratosphere until eventually customers just plain won't buy because there is no fair value to them - and I think ZoS is starting to see signs of this as evidenced by what I mentioned above.

I want ZoS to do well as we all win that way. But they just seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot with their pricing approach to the CS. $15 outfit slots, $50 motifs, $40 mounts, and $100+ houses. It is plain just stupid.

Charliff1966 · May 2018

Some people are fine with the price and some say its not fine. Both are allowed to have that opinion, neither are scumbags (am looking here at the one who send me a nasty message on the ps4). We dont know the numbers and most likely we will never know.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

Wayshuba wrote: »

1.) Current mega-expensive house offering. For the first time, ZoS is running it for two weeks rather than four days. So they are reading these threads and considering some of the suggestions.

Who says this is the result of the forum complaints ? It's more likely the result of their hard data proving that they make more money by offering 2 weeks instead of 4 days limited time sales. If noone had said anything on the forums it would probably result in the same move. ZOS (and any company for that matter) makes decisions based on what we DO, not on what we say. Not buying is far stronger a move than complaining.

Wayshuba wrote: »

2.) The forthcoming Crown Crate motif. Considering the forums are a "minority" as you like to say, it is a big enough minority that it also influenced ZoS's decision to also put the pages as drops in fishing in Summerset.

Wait until we see the outcome. If the "fished" pages are as rare as the all too famous aetherial cipher...
But I'll concede in this case that the forum uproar was probably the cause of them bending down a bit. And I admitted it in that thread, long ago. Just see how "real" that is...

Wayshuba wrote: »

I want ZoS to do well as we all win that way. But they just seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot with their pricing approach to the CS. $15 outfit slots, $50 motifs, $40 mounts, and $100+ houses. It is plain just stupid.

This again ! Did it ever occur to you that if the items keep being that expensive - and it's getting worse and worse - it's simply BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BUYING THEM ? How is it "stupid" to sell high if people are willing to buy high ???

PS : please do NOT compare ESO with some teenies' FPS cheap game like Fortnite. It's not the same type of game, not the same audience, and I am ready to deal with high crown store prices that I cannot afford if it prevents ESO to become as toxic as FPS' communities.

Inoki · May 2018

Wayshuba wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TL/DR : saying that the pricing is bad FOR YOU is fine. Your opinion, your criticism. Saying it's bad for ZOS isn't fine because you don't know that and neither do I. Is it that big of a deal anyway ?

I'd say recent actions by ZoS are proving otherwise. Two recent examples:

1.) Current mega-expensive house offering. For the first time, ZoS is running it for two weeks rather than four days. So they are reading these threads and considering some of the suggestions.

2.) The forthcoming Crown Crate motif. Considering the forums are a "minority" as you like to say, it is a big enough minority that it also influenced ZoS's decision to also put the pages as drops in fishing in Summerset.

In any MMO I have ever played, people like to dismiss valid complaints on forums because it is just a "minority" of players. But that has always proven to be untrue. What it represents is a "sampling" of the players - and an important one at that. They are the players willing to tell you what is wrong and give the company a chance to fix it, whereas a larger part of the base will just leave without saying a word and a company is left guessing why so many players are abandoning their game.

It is foolish to ignore customers. Take one case in point with SWTOR when they introduced the Galactic Command System. They were told it would absolutely destroy the game. They completely ignored the feedback, because that was a vocal minority, and put it in the game anyway. What happened? Exactly what they were warned about - a mass exodus of customers very quickly.

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

This is why Fortnite does so well - nothing priced more than $20. Whereas ZoS just seems to keep escalating prices on digital items into the stratosphere until eventually customers just plain won't buy because there is no fair value to them - and I think ZoS is starting to see signs of this as evidenced by what I mentioned above.

I want ZoS to do well as we all win that way. But they just seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot with their pricing approach to the CS. $15 outfit slots, $50 motifs, $40 mounts, and $100+ houses. It is plain just stupid.

Well said.

I fail to understand how can anyone waste 50$ FOR A MOTIF or over 100$ for a digital house. What would you call that? Addiction? Insanity? Vanity?

This issue will persist for as long as even a minority will be willing to pay that amount for pixels. Only if people genuinely came to agree to stop supporting such practices may we witness their discharge.

For 100$ you can buy so much real life stuff, or if you want to spend on digital goods, why not buy more games?

Simply..... wow.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

Inoki wrote: »

I fail to understand how can anyone waste 50$ FOR A MOTIF or over 100$ for a digital house. What would you call that? Addiction? Insanity? Vanity?

Who knows ? Yet many people do. Enough people to keep the prices that high. I don't understand it either, but yet it's a reality.
That's why I say that we cannot know anything about the consumer behaviour of ESO players.

Charliff1966 · May 2018

Inoki wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

TL/DR : saying that the pricing is bad FOR YOU is fine. Your opinion, your criticism. Saying it's bad for ZOS isn't fine because you don't know that and neither do I. Is it that big of a deal anyway ?

I'd say recent actions by ZoS are proving otherwise. Two recent examples:

1.) Current mega-expensive house offering. For the first time, ZoS is running it for two weeks rather than four days. So they are reading these threads and considering some of the suggestions.

2.) The forthcoming Crown Crate motif. Considering the forums are a "minority" as you like to say, it is a big enough minority that it also influenced ZoS's decision to also put the pages as drops in fishing in Summerset.

In any MMO I have ever played, people like to dismiss valid complaints on forums because it is just a "minority" of players. But that has always proven to be untrue. What it represents is a "sampling" of the players - and an important one at that. They are the players willing to tell you what is wrong and give the company a chance to fix it, whereas a larger part of the base will just leave without saying a word and a company is left guessing why so many players are abandoning their game.

It is foolish to ignore customers. Take one case in point with SWTOR when they introduced the Galactic Command System. They were told it would absolutely destroy the game. They completely ignored the feedback, because that was a vocal minority, and put it in the game anyway. What happened? Exactly what they were warned about - a mass exodus of customers very quickly.

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

This is why Fortnite does so well - nothing priced more than $20. Whereas ZoS just seems to keep escalating prices on digital items into the stratosphere until eventually customers just plain won't buy because there is no fair value to them - and I think ZoS is starting to see signs of this as evidenced by what I mentioned above.

I want ZoS to do well as we all win that way. But they just seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot with their pricing approach to the CS. $15 outfit slots, $50 motifs, $40 mounts, and $100+ houses. It is plain just stupid.

Well said.

I fail to understand how can anyone waste 50$ FOR A MOTIF or over 100$ for a digital house. What would you call that? Addiction? Insanity? Vanity?

This issue will persist for as long as even a minority will be willing to pay that amount for pixels. Only if people genuinely came to agree to stop supporting such practices may we witness their discharge.

For 100$ you can buy so much real life stuff, or if you want to spend on digital goods, why not buy more games?

Simply..... wow.

With our income €100 wil probably given to a waiter as a tip. ZOS should use different price-ranges for their shop so more people can buy stuff. For us €100 means nothing, for others its food for a week.

Wayshuba · May 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Who says this is the result of the forum complaints ? It's more likely the result of their hard data proving that they make more money by offering 2 weeks instead of 4 days limited time sales. If noone had said anything on the forums it would probably result in the same move. ZOS (and any company for that matter) makes decisions based on what we DO, not on what we say. Not buying is far stronger a move than complaining.

Oh god really? And where did that hard data come from considering this is the FIRST TIME they have done a sale on big houses more than 4 days? Did they have some magic wand they waved that told them that?

This is the first sale they are doing more than 4 days meaning it is also the first time they will actually gather data of the difference between four day sales and two week sales. Otherwise, there is no way they had hard data before. Hard data, as you call it, comes from doing and measuring. No other way to get it. Considering this is the first time they have done it, they had no hard data to go from.

Once again, you keep assuming they have some magic data gathering mechanism that no other company in the world has. As I said earlier in this thread, we would know when they have hard data when we see them trying different market tests. Now they finally are doing one.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wait until we see the outcome. If the "fished" pages are as rare as the all too famous aetherial cipher...
But I'll concede in this case that the forum uproar was probably the cause of them bending down a bit. And I admitted it in that thread, long ago. Just see how "real" that is...

That's true, they may be really rare but it still doesn't change the fact they read the forums and reacted to the uproar when the original intent was not to have them in game at all.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

This again ! Did it ever occur to you that if the items keep being that expensive - and it's getting worse and worse - it's simply BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE BUYING THEM ? How is it "stupid" to sell high if people are willing to buy high ???

Has it occurred to you that prices may be going up because LESS people are buying so they are trying to make certain revenue targets with less purchasers? That may also be the case as well.

The reason it is stupid to sell high is there is a TON OF MARKET DATA AND EVIDENCE to show companies make more money overall selling lower and in higher volumes with digital goods in the gaming space. In fact, on the motif thread someone actually linked the chart to some of this data. Less than 3% of customers buy at high prices (known as Whales) while 47% buy at low prices (known as Minnows) and typically, surprise, surprise, Minnows make up more of overall revenue than Whales.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

PS : please do NOT compare ESO with some teenies' FPS cheap game like Fortnite. It's not the same type of game, not the same audience, and I am ready to deal with high crown store prices that I cannot afford if it prevents ESO to become as toxic as FPS' communities.

Regardless, both Fortnite and ESO are making money by selling digital goods - it doesn't matter if the audience is different as they still share a common business model. Fortnite does great in revenue because they understand the micro-transaction model, have a system working in the game, and they leave it alone. ESO, on the other hand, has priced much of the items in the CS as if they haven't the foggiest clue how micro-transactions work and keep tinkering with every update since Homestead with the game mechanics to try and force people to the store (ala the outfit system).

Elsonso · May 2018

Wayshuba wrote: »

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

The issue isn't that ZOS does not understand micro-transactions, it is that they have decided not to use them.

Complaining that they lack an understanding of micro-transactions, when they aren't even attempting to do them, is like saying Ford lacks an understanding of what a car is because the Excursion is not a car.

For whatever reason, ZOS is not doing low cost volume items in their store. This is because they don't want to.

Inoki · May 2018

Charliff1966 wrote: »

With our income €100 wil probably given to a waiter as a tip. ZOS should use different price-ranges for their shop so more people can buy stuff. For us €100 means nothing, for others its food for a week.

Pricing should indeed be adjusted for a healthy average, unless this is made for the upper class. Some other titles do it. I read I think in this very thread about another game that has set its pricing that the most expensive item in the game costs 20$. They profit.

If ZOS had good salesmen they would understand that adjusting prices for these items for what they are - pixels, nothing more - would make them earn a lot more as it would encourage more sales and build up a loyal following. We have to remind them of this?

For how long?

Let's remember we're talking about a game. Now let's ask the important question, why do we have games? We create games to have fun, to be entertained, to relax. Not as source of frustration. Challenge, yes, frustration, no. We have enough of that in our lives; our jobs, relationships.

If this is about a wealthy minority, then idk. Empathising with those who can't afford stuff for whatever reasons I can say this is a disgusting business model.

Morgha_Kul · May 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

The issue isn't that ZOS does not understand micro-transactions, it is that they have decided not to use them.

Complaining that they lack an understanding of micro-transactions, when they aren't even attempting to do them, is like saying Ford lacks an understanding of what a car is because the Excursion is not a car.

For whatever reason, ZOS is not doing low cost volume items in their store. This is because they don't want to.

But they SHOULD want to. They're in business to make money (supposedly by making a good game people want to pay for), and having more customers at lower prices is going to make them more money overall. That's the point we keep making.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

The issue isn't that ZOS does not understand micro-transactions, it is that they have decided not to use them.

Complaining that they lack an understanding of micro-transactions, when they aren't even attempting to do them, is like saying Ford lacks an understanding of what a car is because the Excursion is not a car.

For whatever reason, ZOS is not doing low cost volume items in their store. This is because they don't want to.

But they SHOULD want to. They're in business to make money (supposedly by making a good game people want to pay for), and having more customers at lower prices is going to make them more money overall. That's the point we keep making.

And that is EXACTLY the point I (and a few others) are disputing. YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT.
40*100$=4000$ is HIGHER a profit than 100*30$=3000$.
It all depends on the elasticity of the product depending on its price. It's different for every product/target segment and you can rest assured that ZOS did test that before deciding the prices.
For Talos' sake, STOP pretending you know better than ZOS !!!

Velaethia · May 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

The issue isn't that ZOS does not understand micro-transactions, it is that they have decided not to use them.

Complaining that they lack an understanding of micro-transactions, when they aren't even attempting to do them, is like saying Ford lacks an understanding of what a car is because the Excursion is not a car.

For whatever reason, ZOS is not doing low cost volume items in their store. This is because they don't want to.

But they SHOULD want to. They're in business to make money (supposedly by making a good game people want to pay for), and having more customers at lower prices is going to make them more money overall. That's the point we keep making.

And that is EXACTLY the point I (and a few others) are disputing. YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT.
40*100$=4000$ is HIGHER a profit than 100*30$=3000$.
It all depends on the elasticity of the product depending on its price. It's different for every product/target segment and you can rest assured that ZOS did test that before deciding the prices.
For Talos' sake, STOP pretending you know better than ZOS !!!

Talos doesn't exist yet. BURN THE TIME TRAVELING WITCH!

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

Velaethia wrote: »

Talos doesn't exist yet. BURN THE TIME TRAVELING WITCH!

LoL nice one :-)

Wayshuba · May 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

And that is EXACTLY the point I (and a few others) are disputing. YOU DO NOT KNOW THAT.
40*100$=4000$ is HIGHER a profit than 100*30$=3000$.
It all depends on the elasticity of the product depending on its price. It's different for every product/target segment and you can rest assured that ZOS did test that before deciding the prices.
For Talos' sake, STOP pretending you know better than ZOS !!!

And how did they exactly test that?

Charliff1966 · May 2018

All these marketing "experts" who know so much more then a million dollar company.

anitajoneb17_ESO · May 2018

Wayshuba wrote: »

And how did they exactly test that?

I don't know, and neither do you, which doesn't prove that they haven't :-)
We've discussed that ad nauseam. You still pretend to know better. There's nothing more I can do for you, sorry.

Wayshuba · May 2018

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

And how did they exactly test that?

I don't know, and neither do you, which doesn't prove that they haven't :-)
We've discussed that ad nauseam. You still pretend to know better. There's nothing more I can do for you, sorry.

This is what I have been trying to explain and you refuse to acknowledge.

This stuff can only be tested by doing it in full view of the customer. You test different things on customers, measure and adjust. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO DO IT!

A company figures out pricing by actually testing different levels of pricing on customers. It is as simple as that. There is no other way to gather accurate data - NONE.

You keep insisting ZoS has figured out some magical way to do this without actually testing this with customers. If they have, then they will be the FIRST company to have done so.

So, yes, I DO KNOW that they don't have it because every single person playing this game would have seen them do it.

Just as you insisted they KNOW that running the new Palace for two weeks would make them more money. How do they know this when it is the first time they have done it? They never ran a mega-house for two weeks before so they have ZERO data to tell them this was the best course. Instead, what you are now seeing, is they are FINALLY testing a different time frame to see if it indeed makes more sense.

Likewise, they did ZERO testing on the live price of an outfit slot. It was on PTS at 350 Crowns. The feedback was that is was more than most MMOs but still bearable, then they release at 1500 Crowns. Exactly HOW did they test this price point? And don't go off that they have some secret, magical, fantasy way of doing it. Even the largest corporations in America don't have that, you really think ZoS does.

Wayshuba · May 2018

Charliff1966 wrote: »

All these marketing "experts" who know so much more then a million dollar company.

And some marketing experts here run much bigger businesses than ZoS is. Don't make judgement about what you don't know.

DaveMoeDee · May 2018

Charliff1966 wrote: »

All these marketing "experts" who know so much more then a million dollar company.

While I find the people who talk they they are an authority annoying, companies misread the market all the time. If ZOS misread the market, this is the kind of misread that can be adjusted. Sure, the people proposing counterfactuals are talking out their rears, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible that ZOS miscalculated the appropriate price point.

Still, 1500 per single character costume slot does sound a bit incomprehensible to me, but I don't purchase cosmetics anyway.

Charliff1966 · May 2018

/ignore is such a wonderful option.

Wayshuba · May 2018

Charliff1966 wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Charliff1966 wrote: »

All these marketing "experts" who know so much more then a million dollar company.

And some marketing experts here run much bigger businesses than ZoS is. Don't make judgement about what you don't know.

Yup just as all those arnchair developers who know everything better.

Ad hominem fallacy at it's finest.

Charliff1966 · May 2018

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Charliff1966 wrote: »

All these marketing "experts" who know so much more then a million dollar company.

While I find the people who talk they they are an authority annoying, companies misread the market all the time. If ZOS misread the market, this is the kind of misread that can be adjusted. Sure, the people proposing counterfactuals are talking out their rears, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible that ZOS miscalculated the appropriate price point.

Still, 1500 per single character costume slot does sound a bit incomprehensible to me, but I don't purchase cosmetics anyway.

Am not saying that, i just think that certain "experts" who know everything better are the same people who claim if they would be in charge of ESO it all will be much better.

Can ZOS make mistakes, of course. Will they learn? Who knows, maybe they already did. We will never know

Charliff1966 · May 2018

Elsonso · May 2018

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

As to ZoS and the CS pricing, the outfit slots alone are not the problem, but I think they are what finally set people off that enough is enough. ZoS seems to lack a very basic understanding of what micro-transactions are. They are called "micro" to begin with, because it is supposed to be about selling volumes of low-cost items. Heck, the concept comes from "impulse" buy items stocked in the checkout lines in retail stores - a concept retail has long since perfected. The idea is that people, in general, will impulse buy items usually of $20 or less in value. Few will impulse buy $50 or $100 items.

The issue isn't that ZOS does not understand micro-transactions, it is that they have decided not to use them.

Complaining that they lack an understanding of micro-transactions, when they aren't even attempting to do them, is like saying Ford lacks an understanding of what a car is because the Excursion is not a car.

For whatever reason, ZOS is not doing low cost volume items in their store. This is because they don't want to.

But they SHOULD want to. They're in business to make money (supposedly by making a good game people want to pay for), and having more customers at lower prices is going to make them more money overall. That's the point we keep making.

They seem happy doing the store the way they are doing it. Players can talk about how they should do something different, but three years later, they still seem happy.

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

While I find the people who talk they they are an authority annoying, companies misread the market all the time. If ZOS misread the market, this is the kind of misread that can be adjusted. Sure, the people proposing counterfactuals are talking out their rears, but that doesn't mean that it isn't possible that ZOS miscalculated the appropriate price point.

The thing is that we aren't talking about a mistake that cannot be corrected. Bethesda Softworks has been marketing games for a long time, and while they are new to MMOs and online games, they seem to be quick studies, and they aren't stupid. If something were wrong, and they needed to correct it, it would be corrected. You can be absolutely sure that ZOS and Bethesda would do that with top priority.

Don't get me wrong; I can find a lot of stuff ot complain about where ESO marketing is concerned. It is all but driving me away from this game, and the studio, and making me question again whether I want to buy anything published by Bethesda. But, they don't want to do low price high volume micro-transactions, and that is a decision that I agree with.

hexnotic · May 2018

N/A