1500 crowns per outfit slot (1 slot) just under $1200 for every slot

MajBludd

@DeadlyRecluse some ppl are very fashionable

OrdoHermetica

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Yeah... no. Personally, I'm not going to agree to disagree. I will agree that you forfeited this argument, and hey, that's cool - sometimes it's not worth continuing, and it's very possible this is one of those times. But this isn't some sort of stalemate.

No, I haven't forfeited.
I'm just not going to believe someone who pretends to be a marketing professional while saying FALSE things. I won't list them over and over again, but the two main points are :
1/ Assuming that outfit slots for ESO should be priced in the same range as outfit slots for other MMOs. Since those products are not interchangeable, they're not in competition.
2/ Assuming that he doesn't need figures and data to know about player consumer behaviour in ESO.

That's enough for me to discredit the entire argumentation. And that's rational.

But I know why you agree with him. If you were running a business, every single one of your customers would try and convince you that you should sell cheaper. Every. Single. One. And explain to you that you'd make more money because blah blah blah.
Just because customers like it cheaper. Always.
Don't you see the bias here ?

Ah. I see the problem here. You made an assumption about my motives and the motives of those who disagree with you, and you've been basing your responses on that assumption rather than the arguments we've been making this entire time.

Here's the thing: your assumption is incorrect, at least when it comes to me (and I suspect at least Wayshuba as well, and probably several others). The fact that I think that this one single feature is grossly overpriced does not mean I think all things in the Crown Store should be cheaper.

For example, a non-exhaustive list of things I think are reasonably priced would include non-special event pets and mounts, most non-notable houses, most costumes, the account upgrades, the DLC, the Chapters, character slots, starter bundles, and most polymorphs. Notably, I actually think ESO+ is a fantastic deal, and I'd be willing to keep paying for it even if the price was raised 25-30%. I'm not saying Outfit Slots are absurdly expensive just because I'm an entitled customer whining about having to pay money for things; I'm saying they're absurdly expensive because compared to internal pricing within the same game (see: account-wide character slots) and competition within the same market, they are overpriced.

Which brings me to my next point. We have both offered counters to your points listed above, including explaining more than once now that we're not actually in disagreement with you on your second point (you're right, we DO need figures and data to know those things; however, without them we can make educated guesses, and that's what we've been doing based on our personal experiences).

Rather than address our counterpoints, you have instead decided to either A.) Repeat your own arguments without expanding on them, which is not a valid form of argumentation, B.) Simply ignore counterpoints altogether, or C.) Resort to the ad hominem fallacy by attacking the motives and attributes of people who disagree with you, rather than addressing their arguments. For example, because what Wayshuba says doesn't match what you think is accurate, you decided to accuse him of lying about his experiences rather than actually debating his arguments.

So, yes. You're right that there's bias here, but the bias is yours. And you're also right that you haven't forfeited this argument, because in order to do that you would have had to have actually been interested in participating in debating in the first place. Clearly that was never the case.

Wayshuba

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Ah. I see the problem here. You made an assumption about my motives and the motives of those who disagree with you, and you've been basing your responses on that assumption rather than the arguments we've been making this entire time.

I've stopped the conversation because debating with someone locked in logical fallcious (circular reasoning) is a waste of time. They do not ever view fact but rather run in circles because of predisposed bias for their certainty of outcome. Furthermore, as you pointed out, when they eventually can no longer logically argue, they then always resort to ad hominem fallacy to try and discredit someone. Simply not worth my time to continue reasonable discussions with anyone that makes such uneducated and illogical opinions.

For example, the following was stated in this thread:

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS will not answer to criticism regarding prices. What would they say ? They will not disclose their business plans and market researches for us and a company doesn't have to "justify" prices. We buy or we don't buy.
I'm just disappointed because, unlike houses and furniture/decorations, which I expected to be expensive, I did not expect the outfit system to be THAT expensive.

and this:

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Knowing that ZOS depends on crown store income to a great extent, we were not surprised to hear that there would be some costs involved.
But noone expected it to be such a highly priced, "premium" feature. And ZOS hid it from us very cleverly until yesterday.
The discrepancy between expectations and results is part of the big disappointment and anger.

Yet, were we discussing it in circles as ZoS's practices were defended.

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Which brings me to my next point. We have both offered counters to your points listed above, including explaining more than once now that we're not actually in disagreement with you on your second point (you're right, we DO need figures and data to know those things; however, without them we can make educated guesses, and that's what we've been doing based on our personal experiences).

This started with saying ZoS knows what they are doing because they know how much money they are making with the slots at 1500 Crowns. But one data point, whether the numbers are known or not does not make that statement true in the slightest. How do they KNOW that 1500 Crowns is making them the most? What testing have they done to know that 1500 Crowns is the optimal point?

My point is there exists plenty of data and market practices to know they most likely have lost a lot more than they made. To whit:

1.) It is known in the MMO space that single outfit slots usually sell for less than a dollar and account wide ones sell for about $3.
2.) It is known that ZoS priced on slot at 1500 Crowns (or about 1800% above market rate).
3.) It is most likely that a sizable portion of the ESO player base have played other MMOs before. Contrary to what was stated, all MMOs compete in the same space. Therefore, a good majority of the player base knows how ridiculous the 1500 Crown pricing is (just reading the comments on this thread should give plenty of evidence of that).
4.) It is known that luxury brands usually contain a markup over market standard pricing of 50%-300%. Further to that point, there is also no such thing as a "luxury" MMO.
5.) It is known that not a single mass-market luxury brand in existence has a markup as high as 1800% of market baseline. The reason no one does this high a mark up is because it is well know it would seriously curtail upside revenue potential for a product. Thus why not a single company in existence does it.
6.) It is known ZoS did NO market testing of the 1500 Crown price prior to it going live. It was not put on the PTS at this price nor was it floated to the public prior to going live. Furthermore, it is obvious by how unclear the description is written that ZoS knew this was reaching a bit so the description was intentionally written to be misleading.

Given the above points, there is more than enough baseline data and market practices to definitively say ZoS in fact does NOT know if the pricing set at 1500 Crowns was indeed the best price point to make the most money. They have nothing to compare it to in order to make such a claim. We don't need the actual numbers to know this because we have seen there has been no variable market tests to determine if they did set it properly.

What I have been trying to say is that what is known, and based on what I have seen in many companies over the years, I strongly believe ZoS has lost a LOT of revenue on this as a result of the price being far too high. I have seen this mistake (though not a egregious as this) before many times and have seen the real world effects when the pricing has been adjusted properly (and with thorough market testing).

To elaborate on an example I made before, if the market knows a gallon of milk is $2.50 and one store puts their milk at $45 a gallon how many would buy it. Most won't, but there will be a few that need the milk so bad they do. So the store sells three gallons, at that ludicrous price, but the other 297 gallons sitting on the shelf go to waste because most won't pay that. See the correlation here? What good did it do you to sell 3 gallons at vastly inflated prices when you wanted to sell all 300 gallons sitting on the shelf. What if the store had paid $1 for each of those gallons (so $300). So you sold $135 on those three gallons (but lost $165), but if you had sold all 300 at $2.50, you would have made $750 (and made $450 profit). What would have been the wiser course of action?

OrdoHermetica

MajBludd wrote: »

@DeadlyRecluse some ppl are very fashionable

Or, like me, would love to be able to swap between weapon types when I go to Cyrodiil without my Cyrodiil weapons being bright red, lol. And my armor... oh man. My armor is a mismatched hodgepodge when I switch between PvE and PvP.

Especially with my magicka toons. Heavy armor mixed with light armor, largely crafted sets so they match in PvP... and then a hideous cacophony of styles from various dropped sets when I switch to PvE.

I'm no role-player, but I do like my characters to look reasonably good and believable within the world of ESO. I'd happily buy two or three account-wide Outfit Slots if they were available.

Baracuta

There's talk of a survey going around that consists mostly of questions regarding the crown store. It seems they're at least trying to test the waters of how they're handling the store in general, and I like that. Means something may come of it. Hopefully it's something that is consumer-friendly.

OrdoHermetica

Baracuta wrote: »

There's talk of a survey going around that consists mostly of questions regarding the crown store. It seems they're at least trying to test the waters of how they're handling the store in general, and I like that. Means something may come of it. Hopefully it's something that is consumer-friendly.

Here's hoping. Though, uh, given that they decided to go ahead and add individual motif chapters as random drops in Crown Crates - and have since confirmed that they intend for Crown Crates to be the only place you can get that motif - I'm dubious about them taking any of this to heart.

If Summerset launches and they reverse course on that decision, I might allow myself to feel hopeful. Until then... yeah. I dunno.

Baracuta

OrdoHermetica wrote: »

Baracuta wrote: »

There's talk of a survey going around that consists mostly of questions regarding the crown store. It seems they're at least trying to test the waters of how they're handling the store in general, and I like that. Means something may come of it. Hopefully it's something that is consumer-friendly.

Here's hoping. Though, uh, given that they decided to go ahead and add individual motif chapters as random drops in Crown Crates - and have since confirmed that they intend for Crown Crates to be the only place you can get that motif - I'm dubious about them taking any of this to heart.

If Summerset launches and they reverse course on that decision, I might allow myself to feel hopeful. Until then... yeah. I dunno.

Yeah, that is pretty disgusting. Motifs should stay away from clown crates entirely.

Anthony_Arndt

Baracuta wrote: »

Yeah, that is pretty disgusting. Motifs should stay away from clown crates entirely.

I don't know if I would go that far. As a purely cosmetic item, I think Motifs are entirely appropriate thing to have in Crown Crates.

However, in other games, if you get a duplicate from a loot box, you can sell it on the Auction House. In ESO Crown Crate items are bound to you and the AH is, well, pretty sad and frustrating. So to break Motifs up into pages and put individual pages in Crown Crates is exactly the type of predatory behavior that EA got in trouble for in Star Wars: Battlefront and could possibly result in loot crates getting banned from the EU.

(The irony being, though also from EA, I have had no serious complaints about SWTOR's loot boxes.)

Istoppucks

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Wayshuba

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

Istoppucks

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two completely different things (entire car company to one specific top of the line model)

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

Each of the games you mentioned also sell items that ESO doesnt. For example you dont get all the old xpacs for just subbing like you do in ESO. So how can they justify charging for xpacs when eso offers them for FREE if you sub?

Swtor sells direct sale weapon skins for $30.

Morgha_Kul

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two (entire car company to one specific top of the line model) completely different things.

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

Also, Levi jeans are a lot more than $15. I work in men's wear, the AVERAGE price of a pair of jeans is around $70-80

heaven13

@Isostoppuckd

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two completely different things (entire car company to one specific top of the line model)

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

As @Wayshuba has explained previously, the "going rate" is comparing the similar systems from other games and their cost. I'll reiterate with some math and numbers pulled directly from referenced games:

SWTOR - Outfit slots are 120 cartel coins for a single character slot or 300 cartel coins for an account wide slot. Cartel coins (at lowest price/amount) are $2.99 for 250 cartel coins or approximately 83 cartel coins per USD. So a single character outfit unlock is under $1.50 or an accountwide unlock for $3.61, at the worst conversion rate offered.

LOTRO - Outfit slots (automatically accountwide) are 495 LOTR points which can be earned in game or purchased (lowest price/amount is 600 points for $7.99 or approximately 75 points per USD). An accountwide unlock is about $6.60, again at worst conversion rate offered.

By contrast, ESO only offers character slots (cannot get accountwide). You cannot earn them in game (or earn crowns in game). The slots are 1500 crowns apiece. The "best value" of crowns is the 21000 pack for $149.99 which comes out to about 140 crowns per USD. Making ONE slot is, at BEST conversion rate, $10.72 for a single character to acquire an additional outfit slot.

Istoppucks

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two (entire car company to one specific top of the line model) completely different things.

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

Also, Levi jeans are a lot more than $15. I work in men's wear, the AVERAGE price of a pair of jeans is around $70-80

Wrong...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Signature-by-Levi-Strauss-Co-Men-s-Regular-Fit-Jeans/56181571

Istoppucks

heaven13 wrote: »

@Isostoppuckd

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two completely different things (entire car company to one specific top of the line model)

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

As @Wayshuba has explained previously, the "going rate" is comparing the similar systems from other games and their cost. I'll reiterate:

SWTOR - Outfit slots are 120 cartel coins for a single character slot or 300 cartel coins for an account wide slot. Cartel coins (at lowest price/amount) are $2.99 for 250 cartel coins. So a single character outfit unlock is under $1.50, at the worst conversion rate offered.

LOTRO - Outfit slots (automatically accountwide) are 495 LOTR points which can be earned in game or purchased (lowest price/amount is 600 points for $7.99). An accountwide unlock is about $6.60, again at worst conversion rate offered.

By contrast, ESO only offers character slots (cannot get accountwide). You cannot earn them in game (or earn crowns in game). The slots are 1500 crowns apiece. The "best value" of crowns is the 21000 pack for $149.99 which comes out to about 140 crowns per USD. Making ONE slot is, at BEST conversion rate, $10.72 for a single character to acquire an additional outfit slot.

As I explained his comparison was flawed he was comparing an entire car company to one single top end car from a different company.

Sure you can get slots cheaper at other MMOs but you cant get the xpacs for subbing you have to pay for those. Swtor for example charges $30 for weapon skins and charged $30 for black on black dye when they first came out.

If you guys want to sit and knit pick which items you dont like you should be careful which games you want to compare too as lotro and Swtor arent known to be cash shop friendly .

Wayshuba

Istoppucks wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

@Isostoppuckd

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two completely different things (entire car company to one specific top of the line model)

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

As @Wayshuba has explained previously, the "going rate" is comparing the similar systems from other games and their cost. I'll reiterate:

SWTOR - Outfit slots are 120 cartel coins for a single character slot or 300 cartel coins for an account wide slot. Cartel coins (at lowest price/amount) are $2.99 for 250 cartel coins. So a single character outfit unlock is under $1.50, at the worst conversion rate offered.

LOTRO - Outfit slots (automatically accountwide) are 495 LOTR points which can be earned in game or purchased (lowest price/amount is 600 points for $7.99). An accountwide unlock is about $6.60, again at worst conversion rate offered.

By contrast, ESO only offers character slots (cannot get accountwide). You cannot earn them in game (or earn crowns in game). The slots are 1500 crowns apiece. The "best value" of crowns is the 21000 pack for $149.99 which comes out to about 140 crowns per USD. Making ONE slot is, at BEST conversion rate, $10.72 for a single character to acquire an additional outfit slot.

As I explained his comparison was flawed he was comparing an entire car company to one single top end car from a different company.

Sure you can get slots cheaper at other MMOs but you cant get the xpacs for subbing you have to pay for those. Swtor for example charges $30 for weapon skins and charged $30 for black on black dye when they first came out.

If you guys want to sit and knit pick which items you dont like you should be careful which games you want to compare too as lotro and Swtor arent known to be cash shop friendly .

What I was giving an example of was a brand of cars considered regular luxury (Lincoln) versus higher end luxury (Mercedes S-Class) as an example that even higher end luxury vehicles don't go 1800% off market baseline (the lower end luxury)

As far as not picking on prices, you would have to go across similar items to do that and, bar none, ESO would come out the most expensive in more cases than not.

You mention $30 skins which in ESO are known as motifs and sell for $50 in the store.

Oh, and weapons skins are coming soon in this game as well. Want to bet they will be priced at $40-$50?

Regardless of comparisons though, you would be very, very hard pressed to find something another MMO is selling that another MMO sells for 1800% more. So my later example of the three Lincoln dealers is a perfectly viable analogy for how outrageous the single outfit slot price is in ESO.

Istoppucks

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

@Isostoppuckd

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two completely different things (entire car company to one specific top of the line model)

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

As @Wayshuba has explained previously, the "going rate" is comparing the similar systems from other games and their cost. I'll reiterate:

SWTOR - Outfit slots are 120 cartel coins for a single character slot or 300 cartel coins for an account wide slot. Cartel coins (at lowest price/amount) are $2.99 for 250 cartel coins. So a single character outfit unlock is under $1.50, at the worst conversion rate offered.

LOTRO - Outfit slots (automatically accountwide) are 495 LOTR points which can be earned in game or purchased (lowest price/amount is 600 points for $7.99). An accountwide unlock is about $6.60, again at worst conversion rate offered.

By contrast, ESO only offers character slots (cannot get accountwide). You cannot earn them in game (or earn crowns in game). The slots are 1500 crowns apiece. The "best value" of crowns is the 21000 pack for $149.99 which comes out to about 140 crowns per USD. Making ONE slot is, at BEST conversion rate, $10.72 for a single character to acquire an additional outfit slot.

As I explained his comparison was flawed he was comparing an entire car company to one single top end car from a different company.

Sure you can get slots cheaper at other MMOs but you cant get the xpacs for subbing you have to pay for those. Swtor for example charges $30 for weapon skins and charged $30 for black on black dye when they first came out.

If you guys want to sit and knit pick which items you dont like you should be careful which games you want to compare too as lotro and Swtor arent known to be cash shop friendly .

What I was giving an example of was a brand of cars considered regular luxury (Lincoln) versus higher end luxury (Mercedes S-Class) as an example that even higher end luxury vehicles don't go 1800% off market baseline (the lower end luxury)

As far as not picking on prices, you would have to go across similar items to do that and, bar none, ESO would come out the most expensive in more cases than not.

You mention $30 skins which in ESO are known as motifs and sell for $50 in the store.

Oh, and weapons skins are coming soon in this game as well. Want to bet they will be priced at $40-$50?

Regardless of comparisons though, you would be very, very hard pressed to find something another MMO is selling that another MMO sells for 1800% more. So my later example of the three Lincoln dealers is a perfectly viable analogy for how outrageous the single outfit slot price is in ESO.

No you compared an entire car company to one of the highest end luxury cars on the market. This screams bias agenda.

I mentioned a "weapon skin" and a "dye module" not an outfit . Outfits in Swtor are upwards of $50 .


Bar none? I already proved you wrong with weapon skins and dys. We can also say your wrong with actual content. Eso gives xpacs away for free if you sub yet Swtor and lotro require you to pay for the xpacs Thats actual content which is important to most players. You are throwing a fit about playing dressup in a video game.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Wayshuba wrote: »

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots have one very distinctive advantage over SWTOR outfit slots and LOTRO outfit slots : they are usable in ESO.

heaven13

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

@Isostoppuckd

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two completely different things (entire car company to one specific top of the line model)

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

As @Wayshuba has explained previously, the "going rate" is comparing the similar systems from other games and their cost. I'll reiterate:

SWTOR - Outfit slots are 120 cartel coins for a single character slot or 300 cartel coins for an account wide slot. Cartel coins (at lowest price/amount) are $2.99 for 250 cartel coins. So a single character outfit unlock is under $1.50, at the worst conversion rate offered.

LOTRO - Outfit slots (automatically accountwide) are 495 LOTR points which can be earned in game or purchased (lowest price/amount is 600 points for $7.99). An accountwide unlock is about $6.60, again at worst conversion rate offered.

By contrast, ESO only offers character slots (cannot get accountwide). You cannot earn them in game (or earn crowns in game). The slots are 1500 crowns apiece. The "best value" of crowns is the 21000 pack for $149.99 which comes out to about 140 crowns per USD. Making ONE slot is, at BEST conversion rate, $10.72 for a single character to acquire an additional outfit slot.

As I explained his comparison was flawed he was comparing an entire car company to one single top end car from a different company.

Sure you can get slots cheaper at other MMOs but you cant get the xpacs for subbing you have to pay for those. Swtor for example charges $30 for weapon skins and charged $30 for black on black dye when they first came out.

If you guys want to sit and knit pick which items you dont like you should be careful which games you want to compare too as lotro and Swtor arent known to be cash shop friendly .

What I was giving an example of was a brand of cars considered regular luxury (Lincoln) versus higher end luxury (Mercedes S-Class) as an example that even higher end luxury vehicles don't go 1800% off market baseline (the lower end luxury)

As far as not picking on prices, you would have to go across similar items to do that and, bar none, ESO would come out the most expensive in more cases than not.

You mention $30 skins which in ESO are known as motifs and sell for $50 in the store.

Oh, and weapons skins are coming soon in this game as well. Want to bet they will be priced at $40-$50?

Regardless of comparisons though, you would be very, very hard pressed to find something another MMO is selling that another MMO sells for 1800% more. So my later example of the three Lincoln dealers is a perfectly viable analogy for how outrageous the single outfit slot price is in ESO.

No you compared an entire car company to one of the highest end luxury cars on the market. This screams bias agenda.

I mentioned a "weapon skin" and a "dye module" not an outfit . Outfits in Swtor are upwards of $50 .


Bar none? I already proved you wrong with weapon skins and dys. We can also say your wrong with actual content. Eso gives xpacs away for free if you sub yet Swtor and lotro require you to pay for the xpacs Thats actual content which is important to most players. You are throwing a fit about playing dressup in a video game.

SWTOR does include expansions in their subscriptions. ESO does not, if we're calling chapters expansions. Regardless of whether you're calling both DLC and chapters expansions, or just chapters, you don't get them with ESO+. Subscribers have to pay for them (or at least the current one, if ESO sticks with their current marketing strategy which, we don't know, since they've changed their minds at least 4 times now regarding content marketing:

1. P2P - no store
2. B2P, sub gets all DLC
3. B2P, sub gets crown DLC, purchase of chapters separate and unrelated to sub at all
4. B2P, sub gets crown DLC, purchase of Summerset includes Morrowind and is unrelated to sub, subs get partial Morrowind without Summerset purchase

Also in terms of content, SWTOR and LOTRO are both free to play models where with ESO, you have to buy some version of the game before you can play.

We're specifically discussing the outrageous cost of this particular item. That's what this thread is about. That's what the examples for how other MMOs do it are related to. There are some things ESO gets right. There are some things other MMOs do better. I'm sure we could start a new thread about that if we wanted. This particular one is the HUGE increase in cost compared to others because we're not happy with the very, very expensive cost.

If you're going to get hung up on "other MMOs..." let's change gears.

In ESO, for 1500 crowns you can get:

• An entirely new character slot which you keep whether there is a character filling it or not
• A dungeon DLC with new content to play, motifs, and gear
• 3 costumes that are account wide and can be worn simultaneously (and dyed independently) by every character you have on that account
• Vampirism or Lycanthropy (bad deal since it's character bound but it's also earnable in game so...¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but I don't want to be accused of cherry picking)
• OR a single character bound outfit slot that cannot be earned in game and is lost if the character is deleted

Crown for crown, dollar for dollar, only taking into account ESO items - this is a bad deal and the fact that the crown store description does NOT indicate that it is not accountwide makes it even worse.

MajesticHaruki

1500 crowns for 1 outfit slot on a character is a ripoff. 500 crowns would be appropriate or 1500 account wide.

Elsonso

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

1500 crowns for 1 outfit slot on a character is a ripoff. 500 crowns would be appropriate or 1500 account wide.

Even 500 is a lot when you consider the scale. 15 characters, second outfit... 15 x 500 = OMG.

heaven13

lordrichter wrote: »

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

1500 crowns for 1 outfit slot on a character is a ripoff. 500 crowns would be appropriate or 1500 account wide.

Even 500 is a lot when you consider the scale. 15 characters, second outfit... 15 x 500 = OMG.

If we go by the math I provided earlier:
1500 crown slots at $10.72 per slot (21000 crown pack for $149.99 or 140 crowns per USD) x 9 slots per character x 15 characters = $1447.20

If the 1500 crowns bought accountwide slots (at same rate above) x 9 slots = $96.48

500 crowns per character slot would be $3.57 per slot (using same crown package) x 9 slots per character x 15 characters = $481.95

AT THE CURRENT PRICE, if you buy crowns on sale (for all those that only calculate crown prices using 50% sales on crowns):
21,000 for $74.995 puts it at 280 crowns per USD or $5.36 per outfit slot

1500 crown slots at $5.36 per slot x 9 slots per character x 15 characters = $723.60

All of this math relies on current crown stores prices at the BEST VALUE package, so you best be willing to spend over $70 buying crowns at a time (if you manage to get them during sale).

If we went by LOTRO (since it has a higher rate and only does accountwide slots for $6.60) that would mean the *most* outfit slots should cost AND be accountwide should be 925 crowns. Still a lot, but even 1500 for accountwide is higher than other MMOs.

And that concludes my weird dip into math. I'll show myself out.

Morgul667

Make the outfit slots account wide

Anything less than that for 1500 crowns is a rip off

Mystrius_Archaion

Insanely overpriced, not buying.

Sorry ZOS. I'm not going to be fooled.

Outfit slots need to be account wide, like the new housing storage coffers or the bank slots or the outfit tracking or the motif knowledge tracking.
You've done it before so it is easily possible, so do it.

Anthony_Arndt

Istoppucks wrote: »

I mentioned a "weapon skin" and a "dye module" not an outfit . Outfits in Swtor are upwards of $50.

Not even close. There is not one single outfit in SWTOR that costs "upwards of $50." The most expensive outfit that I have ever seen SWTOR sell directly is the original Revan's and that, at it's most expensive price ever, was something like 2800 cartel credits (CCs) (about $35 if you bought the CCs). Most outfits in SWTOR cost 400-1400 CCs ($5-18) (plus another 30-600 CCs/ $0.38 - $8 if you want to unlock it account-wide).

And unlike ESO, you don't have to be the one to spend the CCs. The majority of things I have bought in SWTOR I have used in-game credits and bought from the AH. Including the vast majority of my outfit slots. I have 4-8 per character, on every character, on every server in SWTOR. I think I bought three account-wide outfit slots with CCs, I bought one account-wide unlock off the AH, and the other two using CCs in the store. The other 1-4 have all been with in-game credits.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ESO outfit slots have one very distinctive advantage over SWTOR outfit slots and LOTRO outfit slots : they are usable in ESO.

Not at 1500 crowns they're not. At 1500 crowns they might as well not even exist.

If they charged something closer to a normal price, 400-500 crowns for an account-wide slot, I would buy 7 more slots today. Because I love the game and I love the system. But at this price, I will probably never buy a single slot.

And I only say probably because once my son starts school, my wife goes back to work, and money's not so tight, I plan on resubscribing and I only spend my ESO+ crowns on cosmetics. If there are no desirable cosmetics in the store, and if I have a significant balance of crowns (7-10k), then I might spend bonus crowns to unlock one more on my main.

But there is absolutely no way that I'd spend money to buy crowns and then use those crowns to unlock anything at that price that is for just one character.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Anthony_Arndt wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ESO outfit slots have one very distinctive advantage over SWTOR outfit slots and LOTRO outfit slots : they are usable in ESO.

Not at 1500 crowns they're not. At 1500 crowns they might as well not even exist.

You not buying them (that's fine) does not make them non existent or not worth existing.

But it wasn't my point. My point is that there's no point in comparing outfit slot prices in ESO with outfit slot prices in other MMOs. Because they're not interchangeable.
The comparison with cars made previously by someone else makes no sense : we're not buying a car, we're buying an extension, a spare part, for a car we already own and use.
I highly doubt any significant number of current ESO players will leave ESO and start another MMO from scratch just because outfit slots there are cheaper.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I highly doubt any significant number of current ESO players will leave ESO and start another MMO from scratch just because outfit slots there are cheaper.

It doesn't matter if anyone starts playing a new MMO though; just if we stop playing (and spending money on) this one.

anitajoneb17_ESO

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I highly doubt any significant number of current ESO players will leave ESO and start another MMO from scratch just because outfit slots there are cheaper.

It doesn't matter if anyone starts playing a new MMO though; just if we stop playing (and spending money on) this one.

How would a decision to stop playing ESO be the result of a comparison of outfit slot prices between ESO and other MMOs ?

Besides, once you've bought the game, you can keep playing ESO all you like without ever spending a dime on it.

Morgha_Kul

Istoppucks wrote: »

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

Wayshuba wrote: »

Istoppucks wrote: »

@Wayshuba

"While I have addressed this is a follow up comment, what you just wrote proves my point. For example, a Lincoln averages $40k in price, a Mercedes S-Class averages $120k. That is a 200% markup differential on Mercedes brand strength. Do you think they would get away with selling an S-Class at $680k instead? That is what an 1800% markup looks like."

Now you claim to have 30 years of experience with this sort of thing so im going to question if you purposely fudged your numbers or if you actually dont have all the information and knowledge you claim.

A Lincoln Continental starts at $50,000 not sure how the average price could be $40,000.

The s class starts at $89,000 and you put its average at $120,000.

Just trying to figure out where your numbers came from.

These are also not comparable . The customers who are purchasing an S class are NOT the samre customers buying a Lincoln .

Lincoln direct competition would be the Genesis.

S class would be BMW 7 series .

Comparing luxury Cars to video games is also a bad example.

Lets look at a real life cosmetic piece.

Levi jeans $15 at walmart

Gucci made headlines when their normal pair of distressed, ripped denim was priced at an astonishing $3,134.

Lincoln's start at $32,800 and can climb up to $65,000 plus with options. A higher volume of cars are sold at a lower end than the higher end. While the $40k may not be exact, you get the point.

S-Class starts at $90k and climbs as high as $230k. Same comment on average guesstimate as above.

Mercedes and Lincoln absolutely do compete in the market. C-Class and E-Class are specifically aimed at the same market as Lincoln buyers.

However, Mercedes with the S-Class targets the higher end luxury market, this the numbers I mentioned.

Perhaps a better way to have put this was saying there are three Lincoln vendors all with a mile of each other in the same city. They all have the exact same model with the same features. Two dealers, let's call them SWTOR and LOTRO sell that model for $50k. The third dealer, let's call them ZoS, sells the exact same model with the exact same features for $850,000. What makes the third model worth $850k (which is 1800% more) than the other two at $50k?

ESO outfit slots are not high end Mercedes versus entry level Lincoln's (i.e. other MMOs), so what EXACTLY justifies ZoS pricing it at 1800% above normal market price. The point I was trying to make with the car examples are exactly that - there is nothing special about ESO outfit slots compared to the rest of the MMO market. The going price is about $0.80 for a single slot, what makes ESO ones worth $15?

How do you think comparing an entire car brand (Lincoln ) to one specific Mercedes (s class) is logical? A c class Mercedes starts at $40,000.

Your point is flawed as you cherry picked the most extreme of the two you were trying to compare.


Where is this information that going price is $0.80?

Levi $15

Gucci $3200

Things arent that bad and my example is logical to the topic and i didnt cherry pick and compare two (entire car company to one specific top of the line model) completely different things.

If you dont want to spend $15 then dont.

Also, Levi jeans are a lot more than $15. I work in men's wear, the AVERAGE price of a pair of jeans is around $70-80

Wrong...

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Signature-by-Levi-Strauss-Co-Men-s-Regular-Fit-Jeans/56181571

Ah, US pricing, of course. My bad, I didn't take that into account.

Wayshuba

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Anthony_Arndt wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ESO outfit slots have one very distinctive advantage over SWTOR outfit slots and LOTRO outfit slots : they are usable in ESO.

Not at 1500 crowns they're not. At 1500 crowns they might as well not even exist.

You not buying them (that's fine) does not make them non existent or not worth existing.

But it wasn't my point. My point is that there's no point in comparing outfit slot prices in ESO with outfit slot prices in other MMOs. Because they're not interchangeable.
The comparison with cars made previously by someone else makes no sense : we're not buying a car, we're buying an extension, a spare part, for a car we already own and use.
I highly doubt any significant number of current ESO players will leave ESO and start another MMO from scratch just because outfit slots there are cheaper.

They may not be interchangeable among games, that is true. However, if ZoS's goal is to sell a lot of them you are going to have a hard time doing that when people coming from other MMOs know these things go for less than a dollar in other MMOs for a single slot and about $3-$7 account wide. The point being that there exists a market baseline price that you are going to have a hard time convincing a lot of players is worth 1800% more in ESO.

In other words, a good many people will go without rather than pay such a high price for an outfit slot - so everyone loses. The player in not getting the slots they want at a reasonable price and ZoS is not selling a lot of outfit slots they otherwise could of.