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PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance
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PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
Let's see how it plays out on live before we give an OP tag to something.
I have been using rune cage ever since the skill existed. What I don't get is how an extra 8k tooltip makes you a god mode sorc or I m missing something here.
The combo already kills medium / light armor targets without needing the 8k tooltip with a meteor of course. Now I don't know if 8k is enough to kill without an ultimate. If it is then I see what you are saying.1 -
MandaWa✭✭✭I will talk about Magicka Sorcerer for PvE only.- Destruction Stafs counting for two pieces : That's a great changement. This allows many diferents possibilities and in differents condition. In my opinion this point of general balance change many things, in a better way. But now, what's about "Ability-Altering" weapons (Malestrom, Master, etc.) ? Maybe that's the moment to give back a second trait to these weapons.
- Bound Armor and its morphs : They are no longer toggles and thats is also very interesting : That allow the possibility to use they on only one bar instead of Inner Light.
- Psijic Order : Accelerate skill and its the magicka morph could be interesting in some conditions and when guard cannot be apply.
- Weaving : It was unbelievable til 4.0.3 patch, because the damages of light attack was really high. After the 20% nerf of these one, the importance of light attacks damages is still consequent. That a great point for me : Weaving is a inherent par of the gameplay and it should be now push people to progress in this way.
- Jewelry crafting : As destruction stafs, this changement offers many differents possibilities and allows to combine easily craftable and lootable sets. Nice.
- Jewelry traits : Hum... Until the 4.0.3 patch, after test many sets and many trait combinasons, I found Bloodthirsty trait was very intersting but to some extent. Contrary to some Magblade results, I don't think a Magsorc can use 3 x BT. Now, it seems totally useless for me : the nerf was to hard. 15% could be a compromise... Infused trait confers less spell damages than the Arcane trait because the gain of magicka. I'm confused, It's very disappointing.
About this last point, the post of @Gallagher563 propose you to vote here and give you're opinion about the nerf of this trait.
Well that's my opinion here. I will be happy to read other Magsorc opinions.
Magickally yours
Edit :
I didn't talk about the new trial set cause I didn't try it in old trials. The structure of it is interesting but it couldn't be not on trials where we need many deplacements.
I think I could be a good idea to separate PvE and PvP treads to a better clarity. @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_KaiSchober, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom, @ZOS_BillE, @ZOS_GaryA- Manda Wa - Magicka Sorcerer - Flawless Conqueror, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Voice of Reason, Shadow Breaker
- Man'da - Templar healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer - Shadow Breaker
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
Let's see how it plays out on live before we give an OP tag to something.
I have been using rune cage ever since the skill existed. What I don't get is how an extra 8k tooltip makes you a god mode sorc or I m missing something here.
The combo already kills medium / light armor targets without needing the 8k tooltip with a meteor of course. Now I don't know if 8k is enough to kill without an ultimate. If it is then I see what you are saying.
On live the combo also kills if you land a Caluurion proc with it (no need for Meteor), what this patch does is it practically guarantees a "Caluurion proc" worth of damage with the Rune Cage.
Meaning you're not dependent on RNG or ulti* to score free kills on non-tank builds anymore.
*Thanks to the visual/audio cues, meteor can actually be cloak->blocked as stamblade (if there's no det pot from sorc) to prevent Cage, a stamplar can cleanse Curse & any other debuff beforehand, a stam warden can Shimmering Shield & a stam DK can put wings up to atleast reflect the light attack part of the damage. Stam sorc is f'd.Edited by DDuke on May 10, 2018 2:03AM2 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Just a few thoughts:
1. The Rebate Passive needs to give Sorc Minor Mending while having a Daedric Ability slotted.
2. change Dark Deal/Conversion into some kind of burst heal.
3. Change Conjured Ward to a Heal over time that grants Minor Endurance and Minor intellect (a good buff for group play)
Magic Sorc needs a different playstyle then then stacking max magicka out the wazoo and stacking shields. Their current design literally leaves NO OTHER STYLE OF PLAY poosible in Cyrodiil
giving Sorc 1-3 above actually means Magic Sorc could actually wear Heavy armor, use two staffs or a staff and sword and board and not have to use damage sheilds at all while still being viable.
I stopped playing Magic Sorc and switched to stma sorc because im tired of nothing but max magicka stacking and damage shield stacking with no other options. Its get old...Magic Sorc is the least interesting class of all because its has no other options but damage shields due to its lack of synergy with armor styles other than light armor, and its lack of survivability minus sheilds.
give it a actual heal, give it a decent hot that gives buffs, and add something useful to the rebate passive so Mag Sorcs will actually have another viable playstyle in pvp outside of shield stacking. If folks want to continue to play the sheild stacking thing, fine, leave it as is, but please for the sake of Mara open up some other playstyles that are viable for magic sorc...i plead with you...
Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak6 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
Let's see how it plays out on live before we give an OP tag to something.
I have been using rune cage ever since the skill existed. What I don't get is how an extra 8k tooltip makes you a god mode sorc or I m missing something here.
The combo already kills medium / light armor targets without needing the 8k tooltip with a meteor of course. Now I don't know if 8k is enough to kill without an ultimate. If it is then I see what you are saying.
On live the combo also kills if you land a Caluurion proc with it (no need for Meteor), what this patch does is it practically guarantees a "Caluurion proc" worth of damage with the Rune Cage.
Meaning you're not dependent on RNG or ulti* to score free kills on non-tank builds anymore.
*Thanks to the visual/audio cues, meteor can actually be cloak->blocked as stamblade (if there's no det pot from sorc) to prevent Cage, a stamplar can cleanse Curse & any other debuff beforehand, a stam warden can Shimmering Shield & a stam DK can put wings up to atleast reflect the light attack part of the damage. Stam sorc is f'd.
Stam Sorc can use Ball of Lightning right after the Meteor is casted, taking away the opportunity to land a projectile (frags) while they're in Rune Cage.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
Nah that wouldnt be too great. Just make malevant offering a runecage clone so my assasins will hits 100% of the time uncounterable
and remove stun on incap. Prob still weaker as the runecage combo - since u still survive if u block or roll the incap but if u get hit u will also eat asasins and runecage clone dmg.
sorc execute
curse
meteor
runecage
frags
Edited by Murador178 on May 10, 2018 8:30AM0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On live the combo also kills if you land a Caluurion proc with it (no need for Meteor), what this patch does is it practically guarantees a "Caluurion proc" worth of damage with the Rune Cage.
Rune cage 7 to 9k tooltip.
Caluurion 19.4k tooltip + statuseffect dmg.
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 508 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I don´t think the game is getting balanced around duels even on bit tbh.
Most of what´s broken op in duels does barely work open world or underperforms there. It´s just too niche of an activity to try and balance around that on top of open world of every scale + battlegrounds.
Neither do I, hence why I said that magblades will still be strong. Nothing much has changed for us in open world, except for a strife nerf and friendlier shade. I’ll go back to light armor, slot purge like Fel already does on live and not have a care in the world in open world. Especially with the proc build I’ll run.
Strife got shafted. I'm using imbue weapon now (That is what ZoS wanted. By the expansion cuz Strife sucks). Pretty sure a lot of sorcs will as well
Using imbue weapons on a magblade is absolutely terrible. You can't fall back on shields, because you only have one, a small one at that, so you need the healing. You don't play a shield and forget class, you actually have to manage hots.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege"
.
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.
Then those nightblades are bad and crutch on cloak too much
Cloak is the absolute strongest defensive cooldown in this game. You can't 'crutch' on cloak. You either abuse it or you don't.6 -
Nicko_Lps✭✭✭✭✭PVE+PVP BALANCE proposal:
Reduce all sorc damage 30%
Reduce all sorc damage shield 50%
Reduce magica harness effectiveness 50% only when a sorc uses it
Remove Mage's Fury and morphs.
Reduce magdk damage 50%
Reduce magdk selfheals 70%
Buff master assassin passive to :
Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while while you are Sneaking or invisible by 10%.
Increases the duration of stun from Sneak by 100%.
Instantly 1shot a sorc or dk when attacking from stealth
Always deal 50% more damage from all the other classes in trials and dungeons
There you go,
forum will have peace with the eternal nightblade tears since day 1 of this game.
5 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭PVE+PVP BALANCE proposal:
Reduce all sorc damage 30%
Reduce all sorc damage shield 50%
Reduce magica harness effectiveness 50% only when a sorc uses it
Remove Mage's Fury and morphs.
Reduce magdk damage 50%
Reduce magdk selfheals 70%
Buff master assassin passive to :
Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while while you are Sneaking or invisible by 10%.
Increases the duration of stun from Sneak by 100%.
Instantly 1shot a sorc or dk when attacking from stealth
Always deal 50% more damage from all the other classes in trials and dungeons
There you go,
forum will have peace with the eternal nightblade tears since day 1 of this game.
Hmm where is the incap buff? HERESY!
Didnt someone in the thread say Calurion doesnt do good dmg . My Calurion tests on the pts tell a differnt story. I dont even want to imagine that set in no CP gameplay. Edited by Murador178 on May 10, 2018 1:07PM0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭PVE+PVP BALANCE proposal:
Reduce all sorc damage 30%
Reduce all sorc damage shield 50%
Reduce magica harness effectiveness 50% only when a sorc uses it
Remove Mage's Fury and morphs.
Reduce magdk damage 50%
Reduce magdk selfheals 70%
Buff master assassin passive to :
Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while while you are Sneaking or invisible by 10%.
Increases the duration of stun from Sneak by 100%.
Instantly 1shot a sorc or dk when attacking from stealth
Always deal 50% more damage from all the other classes in trials and dungeons
There you go,
forum will have peace with the eternal nightblade tears since day 1 of this game.
Ecks dee funny meme post very inspirational0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
Let's see how it plays out on live before we give an OP tag to something.
I have been using rune cage ever since the skill existed. What I don't get is how an extra 8k tooltip makes you a god mode sorc or I m missing something here.
The combo already kills medium / light armor targets without needing the 8k tooltip with a meteor of course. Now I don't know if 8k is enough to kill without an ultimate. If it is then I see what you are saying.
On live the combo also kills if you land a Caluurion proc with it (no need for Meteor), what this patch does is it practically guarantees a "Caluurion proc" worth of damage with the Rune Cage.
Meaning you're not dependent on RNG or ulti* to score free kills on non-tank builds anymore.
*Thanks to the visual/audio cues, meteor can actually be cloak->blocked as stamblade (if there's no det pot from sorc) to prevent Cage, a stamplar can cleanse Curse & any other debuff beforehand, a stam warden can Shimmering Shield & a stam DK can put wings up to atleast reflect the light attack part of the damage. Stam sorc is f'd.
Stam Sorc can use Ball of Lightning right after the Meteor is casted, taking away the opportunity to land a projectile (frags) while they're in Rune Cage.
Yeah, I tried that a few times over the 5+ hours I spent dueling with a medium armor stam sorc (with no tank bs like Impregnable or Brass) yesterday - doesn't really work out that well as the skill has that crazy delay before the effect goes off.
Practically the only times I could kill a mag sorc on a medium stam one were when the sorc messed up shields & got literally one shot by 5k wpn dmg DBOS before he could combo me.
One can crit, the other can't.
You can also get the disease proc with Caluurion which means around 16k damage tooltip, not 19,4k (or 20k+ like I have with Minor Berserk).
Sure, even after counting crits & unlucky disease procs Caluurion will still deal 2-3k more tooltip damage - but it's comparable enough in practice (hence why I wrote practically).1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
One can crit, the other can't.
You can also get the disease proc with Caluurion which means around 16k damage tooltip, not 19,4k (or 20k+ like I have with Minor Berserk).
Sure, even after counting crits & unlucky disease procs Caluurion will still deal 2-3k more tooltip damage - but it's comparable enough in practice (hence why I wrote practically).
It´s in the same ballpark as stating force pulse and crystal frags deal "comparable" dmg in practice.
Exaggerations and inaccuracies never help making an argument. They just help people who want to discredit what you say (even if you have a valid point) by making it seem like you´re on an agenda.Edited by Derra on May 10, 2018 2:02PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 507 -
casparian✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.Edited by casparian on May 10, 2018 2:00PM7-day PVP campaign regular 2016-2019, Flawless Conqueror. MagDK/stamplar/stamwarden/mageblade. Requiem, Legend, Knights of Daggerfall. Currently retired from the wars; waiting on performance improvements.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).Edited by Minalan on May 10, 2018 3:07PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
@Minalan the true power of procs is the GCD bypassing. While overall damage may increase using a different set than caluurion, your burst won't be as high.
Plus, when wearing proc sets, I've found the best is to build for sustain and let the proc sets deal the damage while you survive.
I'm gonna bet you can't build in as much sustain while keeping the lethality as a proc build using damage stat buff sets
Edit: "you" as in the general term for people, not you minalan specificallyEdited by Waffennacht on May 10, 2018 3:26PM0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time
Not to mention that it shoots while stunned, because of it’s delay. There have been many times (both on live and pts) when I didn’t reapply my shields, because the enemy was about to get stunned and I was planning to go on the offensive a bit, just to get 1 shot by a 7-9k proc out of nowhere.
Saying that maiden or even necro is comparable damage to calu is plain out wrong. Of course the proc is bleh if you play with it brainlessly. Gotta combo it a bit.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PVE+PVP BALANCE proposal:
Reduce all sorc damage 30%
Reduce all sorc damage shield 50%
Reduce magica harness effectiveness 50% only when a sorc uses it
Remove Mage's Fury and morphs.
Reduce magdk damage 50%
Reduce magdk selfheals 70%
Buff master assassin passive to :
Increases Weapon and Spell Damage while while you are Sneaking or invisible by 10%.
Increases the duration of stun from Sneak by 100%.
Instantly 1shot a sorc or dk when attacking from stealth
Always deal 50% more damage from all the other classes in trials and dungeons
There you go,
forum will have peace with the eternal nightblade tears since day 1 of this game.
Ecks dee funny meme post very inspirational
or lets just have sorcs fall over dead after just breathing on them
(thats sarcasm)
0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time
Not to mention that it shoots while stunned, because of it’s delay. There have been many times (both on live and pts) when I didn’t reapply my shields, because the enemy was about to get stunned and I was planning to go on the offensive a bit, just to get 1 shot by a 7-9k proc out of nowhere.
Saying that maiden or even necro is comparable damage to calu is plain out wrong. Of course the proc is bleh if you play with it brainlessly. Gotta combo it a bit.
Maybe in no-CP, I haven’t played that since I had less than 200 CP so I can’t really comment on that. To be honest, I’ve always thought of No-CP as sort of a ‘nightblade only’ club.
This patch though, I disagree with you guys. With light attack scaling and ultimate scaling on Max Magicka, it’s going to hurt a lot more to have the Max Magicka. You’re on a 10 second proc window with that set, and I can do a LOT in that time frame with 50K+ MM instead of 39K-40K or so with a proc set. The curse hits harder, all four woven lights hit harder, the frag hits harder, and the cage has a higher tool tip, and the meteor/soul assault hits harder.
All of my attacks in a burst combo have a higher tooltip, and all of those higher tooltips can and probably will crit. Caluurion can’t crit. I haven’t run the numbers exactly, but I think it evens out over a 4-5 skill burst combo with woven lights.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time
Not to mention that it shoots while stunned, because of it’s delay. There have been many times (both on live and pts) when I didn’t reapply my shields, because the enemy was about to get stunned and I was planning to go on the offensive a bit, just to get 1 shot by a 7-9k proc out of nowhere.
Saying that maiden or even necro is comparable damage to calu is plain out wrong. Of course the proc is bleh if you play with it brainlessly. Gotta combo it a bit.
To be honest, I’ve always thought of No-CP as sort of a ‘nightblade only’ club.
Yeah, the “not having played no cp in a long while checks out at least.
Regarding the other part, from someone who’s actually played with/against calu as opposed to only looking at numbers, I disagree.
Anyways, Calu is plenty strong on the pts, and that’s what matters since the pts becomes reality in like 2 weeks right?Edited by Subversus on May 10, 2018 4:06PM0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time
Not to mention that it shoots while stunned, because of it’s delay. There have been many times (both on live and pts) when I didn’t reapply my shields, because the enemy was about to get stunned and I was planning to go on the offensive a bit, just to get 1 shot by a 7-9k proc out of nowhere.
Saying that maiden or even necro is comparable damage to calu is plain out wrong. Of course the proc is bleh if you play with it brainlessly. Gotta combo it a bit.
Maybe in no-CP, I haven’t played that since I had less than 200 CP so I can’t really comment on that. To be honest, I’ve always thought of No-CP as sort of a ‘nightblade only’ club.
This patch though, I disagree with you guys. With light attack scaling and ultimate scaling on Max Magicka, it’s going to hurt a lot more to have the Max Magicka. You’re on a 10 second proc window with that set, and I can do a LOT in that time frame with 50K+ MM instead of 39K-40K or so with a proc set. The curse hits harder, all four woven lights hit harder, the frag hits harder, and the cage has a higher tool tip, and the meteor/soul assault hits harder.
All of my attacks in a burst combo have a higher tooltip, and all of those higher tooltips can and probably will crit. Caluurion can’t crit. I haven’t run the numbers exactly, but I think it evens out over a 4-5 skill burst combo with woven lights.
Well! I'm kinda the opposite, I play Way more no-CP (BGs) than CP
First off, you're absolutely right in the difference.
In BGs, you automatically have 5k less MM. Automatically 10% less crit chance and then whatever CPs you had allocated.
This means crit chance has a higher value (raising crit chance from 30% to 40% has a higher impact on damage than say raising crit chance from 80 to 90%)
Proc damage becomes way more valuable - it's practically impossible in no CP to get curse tooltip anywhere near 16k.
Dodge, block etc are less effective as counters (higher costs, smaller pools)
About the light attacks, I just don't see this making such a huge difference. Sure MM will increase the damage, but I'm thinking the ratio of MM/SD is going to be the same as abilities. So the increase in damage of a MM heavy build vs that of a proc build, I just don't see the difference being substantial.
From my experience, sustain is more powerful in BGs than raw damage, with proc sets I can achieve high sustain and keep enough lethality2 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Waffennacht wrote: »
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time
Not to mention that it shoots while stunned, because of it’s delay. There have been many times (both on live and pts) when I didn’t reapply my shields, because the enemy was about to get stunned and I was planning to go on the offensive a bit, just to get 1 shot by a 7-9k proc out of nowhere.
Saying that maiden or even necro is comparable damage to calu is plain out wrong. Of course the proc is bleh if you play with it brainlessly. Gotta combo it a bit.
Maybe in no-CP, I haven’t played that since I had less than 200 CP so I can’t really comment on that. To be honest, I’ve always thought of No-CP as sort of a ‘nightblade only’ club.
This patch though, I disagree with you guys. With light attack scaling and ultimate scaling on Max Magicka, it’s going to hurt a lot more to have the Max Magicka. You’re on a 10 second proc window with that set, and I can do a LOT in that time frame with 50K+ MM instead of 39K-40K or so with a proc set. The curse hits harder, all four woven lights hit harder, the frag hits harder, and the cage has a higher tool tip, and the meteor/soul assault hits harder.
All of my attacks in a burst combo have a higher tooltip, and all of those higher tooltips can and probably will crit. Caluurion can’t crit. I haven’t run the numbers exactly, but I think it evens out over a 4-5 skill burst combo with woven lights.
Well! I'm kinda the opposite, I play Way more no-CP (BGs) than CP
First off, you're absolutely right in the difference.
In BGs, you automatically have 5k less MM. Automatically 10% less crit chance and then whatever CPs you had allocated.
This means crit chance has a higher value (raising crit chance from 30% to 40% has a higher impact on damage than say raising crit chance from 80 to 90%)
Proc damage becomes way more valuable - it's practically impossible in no CP to get curse tooltip anywhere near 16k.
Dodge, block etc are less effective as counters (higher costs, smaller pools)
About the light attacks, I just don't see this making such a huge difference. Sure MM will increase the damage, but I'm thinking the ratio of MM/SD is going to be the same as abilities. So the increase in damage of a MM heavy build vs that of a proc build, I just don't see the difference being substantial.
From my experience, sustain is more powerful in BGs than raw damage, with proc sets I can achieve high sustain and keep enough lethality
Not to mention that proc sets do even more damage in no cp than cp because of no defensive cp either, as well as most people running medium/light to try and squeeze out more sustain.
Until they remove proc sets in no cp, it will remain an absolute *** show.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I don´t think the game is getting balanced around duels even on bit tbh.
Most of what´s broken op in duels does barely work open world or underperforms there. It´s just too niche of an activity to try and balance around that on top of open world of every scale + battlegrounds.
Neither do I, hence why I said that magblades will still be strong. Nothing much has changed for us in open world, except for a strife nerf and friendlier shade. I’ll go back to light armor, slot purge like Fel already does on live and not have a care in the world in open world. Especially with the proc build I’ll run.
Strife got shafted. I'm using imbue weapon now (That is what ZoS wanted. By the expansion cuz Strife sucks). Pretty sure a lot of sorcs will as well
Using imbue weapons on a magblade is absolutely terrible. You can't fall back on shields, because you only have one, a small one at that, so you need the healing. You don't play a shield and forget class, you actually have to manage hots.
Refreshing path provides plenty of healing and I'll be wearing transmutation to help negate damage. You'd be surprised how effective it isFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time
Not to mention that it shoots while stunned, because of it’s delay. There have been many times (both on live and pts) when I didn’t reapply my shields, because the enemy was about to get stunned and I was planning to go on the offensive a bit, just to get 1 shot by a 7-9k proc out of nowhere.
Saying that maiden or even necro is comparable damage to calu is plain out wrong. Of course the proc is bleh if you play with it brainlessly. Gotta combo it a bit.
To be honest, I’ve always thought of No-CP as sort of a ‘nightblade only’ club.
Yeah, the “not having played no cp in a long while checks out at least.
Regarding the other part, from someone who’s actually played with/against calu as opposed to only looking at numbers, I disagree.
Anyways, Calu is plenty strong on the pts, and that’s what matters since the pts becomes reality in like 2 weeks right?
You have to admit, it kind of was a nightblade party during homestead with the viper/veli meta. Back when both sets would crit, damage out of stealth was increased, and it was 100% instant death in No-CP.
I left because I got tired of being deleted out of stealth, I really haven’t been back since TBH. Vivec is where the people are, hundreds of them. Most of them are there to fight. That’s what I like best. Large scale, small scale, 1v1 duels, zergs chasing me to the end of Cyrodiil.Edited by Minalan on May 10, 2018 5:40PM2 -
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✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »
I suspect they thought of Zaan as solving two problems:I was the one that said Caluurion wasn’t that great, last time I had it hit me for 5-6K in a duel. It put pressure on my shields, and probably cost me a GCD, but it wasn’t GG.
Zaan however. Holy &€%#*. Streak streak streak.
I don’t understand what the dev team is doing anymore, do we all need to start cancelling our preorders for them to listen? Nothing talks like money...
- magicka melee classes were completely non-competitive in PVE DPS
- they wanted to "give players more reason to spread out" in PVP -- i.e., they thought of Zaan as helping provide the previously lacking incentive for a player to split off from their ball group
Those are goals I can understand. I don't think Zaan has contributed much to fixing problem 2 (as long as ball groups can lay down AOE snares and then have someone pop Rapids, nothing will fix problem 2), but it has certainly helped with problem 1.
I don't think its impact on 1v1 fights is even on their radar. Dueling isn't a part of their balance considerations, and it probably shouldn't be.
My issue with Zaan is that it needs to be at least a five piece set for putting out that much pain.
Caluurion is already five piece and the proc damage is underwhelming compared to what you can do with a better damage five piece set.
I mean, compare what full necropotence will do with all of that buffed max Magicka compared to Caluurion. Scaled Light attack damage increase alone will make up for a missing proc. Not to mention the shield increase, and just having 8-9K more resources to spend (depending on race, mage guild skills slotted, infused pieces, class passives, etc)
For PVP, Caluurion has mostly trash traits (crit and a little damage) for the first three set bonuses. It’s a PVE set, where 3% more crit has a noticeable effect on DPS on a boss with 2 million HP. You can use it in PVP, but I think you’d be better off with one of the dedicated damage sets (maiden, spinner, necro, alchemist, etc).
Calurion is arguably BiS in noCP over all the sets you listed. CP as well, especially since it offers crazy amounts of burst.
Another cool thing about Cal is the travel speed.
I can (on my magplar) cast backlash (which sometimes procs it)
I can then use toppling charge - out pacing the proc
Stun my opponent before the proc lands
Follow up attack and Cal hit CCed opponent at the same time
Not to mention that it shoots while stunned, because of it’s delay. There have been many times (both on live and pts) when I didn’t reapply my shields, because the enemy was about to get stunned and I was planning to go on the offensive a bit, just to get 1 shot by a 7-9k proc out of nowhere.
Saying that maiden or even necro is comparable damage to calu is plain out wrong. Of course the proc is bleh if you play with it brainlessly. Gotta combo it a bit.
To be honest, I’ve always thought of No-CP as sort of a ‘nightblade only’ club.
Yeah, the “not having played no cp in a long while checks out at least.
Regarding the other part, from someone who’s actually played with/against calu as opposed to only looking at numbers, I disagree.
Anyways, Calu is plenty strong on the pts, and that’s what matters since the pts becomes reality in like 2 weeks right?
You have to admit, it kind of was a nightblade party during homestead with the viper/veli meta. Back when both sets would crit, it was 100% instant death in No-CP.
I left because I got tired of being deleted out of stealth, I really haven’t been back since TBH. Vivec is where the people are, hundreds of them. Most of them are there to fight. That’s what I like best. Large scale, small scale, 1v1 duels, zergs chasing me to the end of Cyrodiil.
You're right, that sucked. Especially when Selene didn't even have an animation.
The non-below-50-no-CP campaign is dead, it's a ghost town
Take over a resource and maybe someone shows up in 20.
BG is really the only no-CP above 50 experience. And if it was CP I'd be totally dedicated to CP builds. As is I only use CP for PvE0 -
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I don´t think the game is getting balanced around duels even on bit tbh.
Most of what´s broken op in duels does barely work open world or underperforms there. It´s just too niche of an activity to try and balance around that on top of open world of every scale + battlegrounds.
Neither do I, hence why I said that magblades will still be strong. Nothing much has changed for us in open world, except for a strife nerf and friendlier shade. I’ll go back to light armor, slot purge like Fel already does on live and not have a care in the world in open world. Especially with the proc build I’ll run.
Strife got shafted. I'm using imbue weapon now (That is what ZoS wanted. By the expansion cuz Strife sucks). Pretty sure a lot of sorcs will as well
Using imbue weapons on a magblade is absolutely terrible. You can't fall back on shields, because you only have one, a small one at that, so you need the healing. You don't play a shield and forget class, you actually have to manage hots.
Refreshing path provides plenty of healing and I'll be wearing transmutation to help negate damage. You'd be surprised how effective it is
Oh boy...
I’ve played a no shield magblade for most of my playtime on the class since like morrowind, and shieldstack magblade loooong before that. Nothing surprises me when it comes to magblade anymore, lol. Not for a very long time now.
Mutagen gives you more healing than path, and it’s not even close to “plenty of healing” on it’s own. Path requires you to stay in it, strife doesn’t. The only reason I even use path over mutagen is because path procs my skoria, mutagen doesn’t.
If you don’t play to the destro magblade strengths (massive offhealing) then there’s absolutely no reason to play with a destro, better go melee.
Riposte is also superior to transmutation this patch (and the next) for solo pvp. Only place where transmutation is good is in group, and there I like to stack it with riposte as well, because playing without riposte on a shieldless magblade without troll king is suicide, imo.
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