PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance
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Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege"
.
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.
Funny pun at the start there, +1 for that.
Sure, nbs are more mobile in a certain given area, but sorcs are far more mobile overall. Not to mention that “ignore stamina” is completely wrong. There’s a reason the only viable spec for magblade nowadays is 2h/resto. Like come on...
From someone who plays both, the difference is extremely noticeable. My sorc is moving like Hermes from the Greek mythology compared to my magblade.
Sorcs have the same cc as nbs, albeit it does more damage but stuns 1 less person. Sorcs also have an (aoe!) immobilize, as nbs. The fact that cripple does damage is probably due to how sorcs are a burst oriented class while magblade is more about pressure.
Please don’t start going on about how Sorcs have less burst, lol. Sorc burst is unmatched even on live. The fact that nbs have “better” burst thanks to an ultimate is completely irrelevant, sorcs also have an ultimate. I do agree that incap is overloaded as fucc, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Outside incap magblade has literally no burst. Merciless alone isn’t considered burst.
That nightblades have better burst with a 70 cost ultimate is very relevant. That’s almost spammable it’s so cheap!
I read stuff like this, and I’m like... what in the hell are you trying to pull? What kind of twisted leaps of forum blade logic are you trying to lead us through to fool us into thinking that your class is weak and helpless?!
Granted I will give him that encase is strong as an AOE immobilze with a huge range. The last skill that had that was in the bow line and it was changed so that you couldnt spam immobilze it if the enemy had a snare effect on them.
But yea, nightblade burst and nightblade fight reset mechanics are way better than sorc. streak has a hefty cost which drains the bar. A nightblade gets minor maim, and can teleport then cloak basically disappearing with no stamina cost. Sorcs generally have to dodge roll, and recently build towards well fitted traits to benefit from all the Dodge rolling+sprinting.Edited by Minno on May 8, 2018 8:40PMMinno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭There’s a reason the only viable spec for magblade nowadays is 2h/resto. Like come on...
Wait what? I didn´t get that memo
I´d also say will alone is burst when you figure in that it has ~40% higher tooltip than procced frags on comparable builds + an additional 10% critdmg aswell.
Worded it wrongly, my bad. Meant that the more viable spec is 2h, I’m playing just fine with heavy destro/resto. We’re talking solo open world, of course.
Also, one single ability doesn’t suddenly give a class better burst. Lol. The fact that it’s 40% stronger is not comparable to curse/ability/cc/ability.
You can’t even compare magsorc to magblade, it’s like comparing apples with pears. They’re far too different.0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.
Funny pun at the start there, +1 for that.
Sure, nbs are more mobile in a certain given area, but sorcs are far more mobile overall. Not to mention that “ignore stamina” is completely wrong. There’s a reason the only viable spec for magblade nowadays is 2h/resto. Like come on...
From someone who plays both, the difference is extremely noticeable. My sorc is moving like Hermes from the Greek mythology compared to my magblade.
Sorcs have the same cc as nbs, albeit it does more damage but stuns 1 less person. Sorcs also have an (aoe!) immobilize, as nbs. The fact that cripple does damage is probably due to how sorcs are a burst oriented class while magblade is more about pressure.
Please don’t start going on about how Sorcs have less burst, lol. Sorc burst is unmatched even on live. The fact that nbs have “better” burst thanks to an ultimate is completely irrelevant, sorcs also have an ultimate. I do agree that incap is overloaded as fucc, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Outside incap magblade has literally no burst. Merciless alone isn’t considered burst.
That nightblades have better burst with a 70 cost ultimate is very relevant. That’s almost spammable it’s so cheap!
I read stuff like this, and I’m like... what in the hell are you trying to pull? What kind of twisted leaps of forum blade logic are you trying to lead us through to fool us into thinking that your class is weak and helpless?!
I’m not trying to pull anything. I’m trying to give a fair picture, as opposed to the forum sorc idea of “op because I’m too bad to counter”. They’re two very different classes that y’all are trying to somehow tie together. It’s funny, really, because I was not impressed by what I’ve experienced of the NA squad on the pts while having 300 ping, yet y’all are somehow experts on the forums.
First of all, with the rune cage buffs, the burst of sorcs is unmatched, regardless of incap being “almost spammable”.
“Almost spammable” is irrelevant. I know it’s hard for someone that doesn’t actually play the class to understand and to keep an open mind instead of ignorantly hating, but it’s alright. Incap is “almost spammable” on a stamblade with heroic slash, lol.
Incap>merciless is non existent against anyone that’s half decent. If anyone gets hit by an incap > merciless combo in 2018, they are either absolute *** (what I assume a lot of the forum warriors are) or are lagging very very hard. Please enlighten me where the burst is again, because I’m completely lost. I believe you’re under the impression that curse+frags+rune cage all exploding at the same time is somehow weaker by incap>dodged ability>merciless.
If you want to bring ultimates into the picture, Sorcs have just as much ultimate-tied burst with dawnbreaker and more with meteor, far more. Especially next patch.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.
Funny pun at the start there, +1 for that.
Sure, nbs are more mobile in a certain given area, but sorcs are far more mobile overall. Not to mention that “ignore stamina” is completely wrong. There’s a reason the only viable spec for magblade nowadays is 2h/resto. Like come on...
From someone who plays both, the difference is extremely noticeable. My sorc is moving like Hermes from the Greek mythology compared to my magblade.
Sorcs have the same cc as nbs, albeit it does more damage but stuns 1 less person. Sorcs also have an (aoe!) immobilize, as nbs. The fact that cripple does damage is probably due to how sorcs are a burst oriented class while magblade is more about pressure.
Please don’t start going on about how Sorcs have less burst, lol. Sorc burst is unmatched even on live. The fact that nbs have “better” burst thanks to an ultimate is completely irrelevant, sorcs also have an ultimate. I do agree that incap is overloaded as fucc, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Outside incap magblade has literally no burst. Merciless alone isn’t considered burst.
That nightblades have better burst with a 70 cost ultimate is very relevant. That’s almost spammable it’s so cheap!
I read stuff like this, and I’m like... what in the hell are you trying to pull? What kind of twisted leaps of forum blade logic are you trying to lead us through to fool us into thinking that your class is weak and helpless?!
I’m not trying to pull anything. I’m trying to give a fair picture, as opposed to the forum sorc idea of “op because I’m too bad to counter”. They’re two very different classes that y’all are trying to somehow tie together. It’s funny, really, because I was not impressed by what I’ve experienced of the NA squad on the pts while having 300 ping, yet y’all are somehow experts on the forums.
First of all, with the rune cage buffs, the burst of sorcs is unmatched, regardless of incap being “almost spammable”.
“Almost spammable” is irrelevant. I know it’s hard for someone that doesn’t actually play the class to understand and to keep an open mind instead of ignorantly hating, but it’s alright. Incap is “almost spammable” on a stamblade with heroic slash, lol.
Incap>merciless is non existent against anyone that’s half decent. If anyone gets hit by an incap > merciless combo in 2018, they are either absolute *** (what I assume a lot of the forum warriors are) or are lagging very very hard. Please enlighten me where the burst is again, because I’m completely lost. I believe you’re under the impression that curse+frags+rune cage all exploding at the same time is somehow weaker by incap>dodged ability>merciless.
If you want to bring ultimates into the picture, Sorcs have just as much ultimate-tied burst with dawnbreaker and more with meteor, far more. Especially next patch.
I’m talking live. Now. You have more burst. If you want to count meteor, you have to include the two or three incap strikes you can pull before meteor is even up for me.
Next patch? Who knows what they’ll change. You might as well include the broken 50K+ Empowered overload light attacks. That’s going to be hilarious fun if they actually let it go live.6 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭sorc pvp heals kinds are lacking, i mean surge isnt viable, twilight has to be double bar'd and isnt good in pvp, exchange sucks because of the delay. like dks and nb have a attacks that heal templar has breath of life which is an instant heal. If sucks having to slot a resto on back bar just for the heal shield
and waiting 6 secs for healing ward is way to long4 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.sorc pvp heals kinds are lacking, i mean surge isnt viable, twilight has to be double bar'd and isnt good in pvp, exchange sucks because of the delay. like dks and nb have a attacks that heal templar has breath of life which is an instant heal. If sucks having to slot a resto on back bar just for the heal shield
and waiting 6 secs for healing ward is way to long
Well it healing ward to prevent the execute from finishing you right there - maybe even in spam form - then panacea to get back on your feet and go offensive, it's Healing, la, panacea, la, cage swap cancel, Curse Wrath. By that point your procs should be going and they are dead0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »By that point your procs should be going and they are dead
The shortest way of summarizing what‘s wrong with ESO PvP.
@Subversus
Are you trying to tell you ever die to Sorc burst on live if you’re not outnumbered? Come on. The way you put it sounds like NB is in dire need of heavy buffs.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Has this become a #BuffBlade thread in disguise?
Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach4 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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I don´t think the game is getting balanced around duels even on bit tbh.
Most of what´s broken op in duels does barely work open world or underperforms there. It´s just too niche of an activity to try and balance around that on top of open world of every scale + battlegrounds.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I don´t think the game is getting balanced around duels even on bit tbh.
Most of what´s broken op in duels does barely work open world or underperforms there. It´s just too niche of an activity to try and balance around that on top of open world of every scale + battlegrounds.
Neither do I, hence why I said that magblades will still be strong. Nothing much has changed for us in open world, except for a strife nerf and friendlier shade. I’ll go back to light armor, slot purge like Fel already does on live and not have a care in the world in open world. Especially with the proc build I’ll run.0 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Again would like to bring up that rc needs to be a dot
pve: will up dps a liitle and is will be much better that haunting curse. or use them both idk lol ive just never thought that haunting curse synergies will in the rotation, it takes longer than the other skills to run out and over casting it just negates the second effect. (Think curse is great in pvp dont get me wrong, its a good skill, just dont like it in the non pet sorc rotation)
pvp: provides a way to actually use surge as a heal and will help provide pressure1 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
LOL, i think you missed my point...
Blades are OP AF is my view and blade players have infiltrated this thread....Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach4 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shout out to @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Just a thought, if ZOS has a direction they want to take for Sorc, a plan or vision of how Sorc's should be played. I think it would be cool, and help, if we were to get a insight into that.
This thread is littered with good Sorc players ideas about direction of the class, some real common themes. And the risk with threads like this is people feeling not listened too, when a direction is taken anyway.
I just wonder if open comms would help as right now people left pondering certain decisions / directions with the class.
Or is this something the class rep might pick up? And any news on that initiative?
CheersEdited by Beardimus on May 9, 2018 12:27PMXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach2 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Does anyone remember a PTS from 2-3 years ago, when they made Streak stun unblockable. Quickly reverted before hitting live ofc. Man, I remember being so excited about that.
EU | PC | AD8 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Sweet lord id pay crowns for that lol. Shove clunky old Rune Cage, uber streak is what we need.Does anyone remember a PTS from 2-3 years ago, when they made Streak stun unblockable. Quickly reverted before hitting live ofc. Man, I remember being so excited about that.
Xbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Iziquiel✭✭Has anyone been trying StamSorc 2H and using Imbue Weapons rather than wrecking blow? How are you finding it? Is there any major difference in the potential dps?0
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sweet lord id pay crowns for that lol. Shove clunky old Rune Cage, uber streak is what we need.
It's all coming back to me now. If I recall correctly, Streak used to be a Disorient, an effect now removed from the game. Disorients used to be short in duration but stronger than other hard CC in the sense that they didn't use to grand CC immunity unless the target used CC break. So you could basically Streak back and forth over targets and if they were out of stam or didn't know how to CC break it was perma-stun.
In that update, they changed it from Disorient to Stun so that it would grant CC immunity at end. Now Stuns were generally longer in duration, 3 seconds and upwards, a buff they didn't grant to Streak. So the rationale behind this was that it would be the shortest stun in the game, but it would go through block in compensation. Obviously before live dropped, they reverted the unblockable part but without reverting the Disorient to Stun conversion or increasing the duration, thus Streak simply received a hefty nerf. One of the about ~7 hefty nerfs it's received over the years. Don't make me list them, it's depressing
In some ways an unblockable stun on Streak would be more balanced than current Cage...
- Streak requires you to be in melee 8m range to land the stun as opposed to Cage's 28m (or 40m+ near keeps). Less Xv1 potential against targets running away.
- The duration is also very low (1.5") which means on a target out of stamina you get to land one burst rotation, but not pummel them for 3-5" like other CC skills allow you to do.
- The damage portion is significantly lower than Cage, reducing the total damage delivered in one CD.
I mean admittedly Streak is an AoE which is a huge thing (obviously) but in comparison to what Cage does it does not seem OP to me. An unblockable Streak is certainly weaker against single targets compared to new Cage, but stronger against many. I'd rather have a good zerg-buster skill rather than an Xv1 skill any day of the week.EU | PC | AD4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sweet lord id pay crowns for that lol. Shove clunky old Rune Cage, uber streak is what we need.
It's all coming back to me now. If I recall correctly, Streak used to be a Disorient, an effect now removed from the game. Disorients used to be short in duration but stronger than other hard CC in the sense that they didn't use to grand CC immunity unless the target used CC break. So you could basically Streak back and forth over targets and if they were out of stam or didn't know how to CC break it was perma-stun.
In that update, they changed it from Disorient to Stun so that it would grant CC immunity at end. Now Stuns were generally longer in duration, 3 seconds and upwards, a buff they didn't grant to Streak. So the rationale behind this was that it would be the shortest stun in the game, but it would go through block in compensation. Obviously before live dropped, they reverted the unblockable part but without reverting the Disorient to Stun conversion or increasing the duration, thus Streak simply received a hefty nerf. One of the about ~7 hefty nerfs it's received over the years. Don't make me list them, it's depressing
In some ways an unblockable stun on Streak would be more balanced than current Cage...
- Streak requires you to be in melee 8m range to land the stun as opposed to Cage's 28m (or 40m+ near keeps). Less Xv1 potential against targets running away.
- The duration is also very low (1.5") which means on a target out of stamina you get to land one burst rotation, but not pummel them for 3-5" like other CC skills allow you to do.
- The damage portion is significantly lower than Cage, reducing the total damage delivered in one CD.
I mean admittedly Streak is an AoE which is a huge thing (obviously) but in comparison to what Cage does it does not seem OP to me. An unblockable Streak is certainly weaker against single targets compared to new Cage, but stronger against many. I'd rather have a good zerg-buster skill rather than an Xv1 skill any day of the week.
Yeah, I don't think there was anything wrong with Streak (even when you could chain CC people) as it could be avoided by positioning well & required atleast some small modicum of skill from the sorcerer to land those stuns (which can't be said about 28m tab target & click Rune Cage).
I actually remember there was a really cool stam sorc build back in the days that would Crit Rush you, Streak over you, Crit Rush you etc, that was a lot of fun to fight against.Edited by DDuke on May 9, 2018 6:42PM0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.2 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.1 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
The point is they complained about a patch that removed an unblockable burst combo and now complain about a patch introducing another...DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
The point is they complained about a patch that removed an unblockable burst combo and now complain about a patch introducing another...
Yup, you got it.
C=1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you sure? All magicka AoEs were unblockable at start (part of the reason Impulse trains were a thing) including Curse. Stamina AoEs, like Steel Tornado, were blockable. Including Caltrops which were used to stamina drain the tanks back then.
Curse, like all magicka skills, has flip-flopped a bit between being blockable and unblockable but I'm not sure that was the patch that it became unblockable.EU | PC | AD0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
The point is they complained about a patch that removed an unblockable burst combo and now complain about a patch introducing another...
I'm sorry, are you & @Lord-Otto referring to me with that? The only sorc things I've ever complained about are their shields (in 2014-2016, not recently) and now this 28m click 9-10k tooltip unavoidable CC that requires zero skill to operate (unlike the Streak, which actually required aiming & correctly anticipating where the cloaked NB would be moving).
I'm fine with unblockable/dodgeable burst combos that actually require some skill to land and can similarly be avoided with good movement/positioning.
If that makes me a "sorc hater", then so be it. I guess I'm also a "DK hater" since I defended Power Lash becoming dodgeable (and drew the ire of the whole mDK community for that) & a "NB hater" for wanting visual indicators (i.e. footprints/shimmering effect) for where stealthed enemies are moving, Incap stun to become more conditional and skill based (like it was before) etc.Edited by DDuke on May 9, 2018 7:36PM0 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Streak CC was made blockable the same patch Curse was made UNblockable.
I always told salty forumblades that they got the long end of the stick with that change, as Curse hit you anyway after you got stunned. But, you know, THOSE guys. Now everyone is upset about a stun that goes through block and dodge, and deals damage - just like Streak back then.
*facepalm*
I swear, sorc haters have absolutely no clue about the class and just sputter nonsense.
Are you being serious right now? “Sorc haters” lmfao, even the actual sorc players agree that rune cage is op on the pts.
The point is they complained about a patch that removed an unblockable burst combo and now complain about a patch introducing another...
I'm sorry, are you & Lord-Otto referring to me with that? The only sorc things I've ever complained about are their shields (in 2014-2016, not recently) and now this 28m click 9-10k tooltip unavoidable CC that requires zero skill to operate (unlike the Streak, which actually required aiming & correctly anticipating where the cloaked NB would be moving).
I'm fine with unblockable/dodgeable burst combos that actually require some skill to land and can similarly be avoided with good movement/positioning.
If that makes me a "sorc hater", then so be it. I guess I'm also a "DK hater" since I defended Power Lash becoming dodgeable (and drew the ire of the whole mDK community for that) & a "NB hater" for wanting visual indicators (i.e. footprints/shimmering effect) for where stealthed enemies are moving, Incap stun to become more conditional and skill based (like it was before) etc.
I do not refer to you, no. I wouldn't even have remembered Curse and Streak got those changes in the same patch.DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Curse, like all magicka skills, has flip-flopped a bit between being blockable and unblockable but I'm not sure that was the patch that it became unblockable.
Curse was blockable for only one patch cycle - it was unblockable before and unblockable ever since.
The patch that curse was blockable fury was unblockable (funny enough) and arguably even stronger than unblockable curse.
What made curse stand out suddenly wasn´t a blockable/unblockable change but the change to allow multiple curses per target (due to pve reasons).
Streak only was unblockable for 2 weeks and only on PTS - never on live.
This was when disorient was changed to be an unblockable cc (petrify, old agony, one morph of blazing spear and streak) - streak was then changed to a 1.5s stun.
Edited by Derra on May 9, 2018 8:41PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.
Then those nightblades are bad and crutch on cloak too muchFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I don´t think the game is getting balanced around duels even on bit tbh.
Most of what´s broken op in duels does barely work open world or underperforms there. It´s just too niche of an activity to try and balance around that on top of open world of every scale + battlegrounds.
Neither do I, hence why I said that magblades will still be strong. Nothing much has changed for us in open world, except for a strife nerf and friendlier shade. I’ll go back to light armor, slot purge like Fel already does on live and not have a care in the world in open world. Especially with the proc build I’ll run.
Strife got shafted. I'm using imbue weapon now (That is what ZoS wanted. By the expansion cuz Strife sucks). Pretty sure a lot of sorcs will as wellFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
MandaWa✭✭✭I will talk about Magicka Sorcerer for PvE only.- Destruction Stafs counting for two pieces : That's a great changement. This allows many diferents possibilities and in differents condition. In my opinion this point of general balance change many things, in a better way. But now, what's about "Ability-Altering" weapons (Malestrom, Master, etc.) ? Maybe that's the moment to give back a second trait to these weapons.
- Bound Armor and its morphs : They are no longer toggles and thats is also very interesting : That allow the possibility to use they on only one bar instead of Inner Light.
- Psijic Order : Accelerate skill and its the magicka morph could be interesting in some conditions and when guard cannot be apply.
- Weaving : It was unbelievable til 4.0.3 patch, because the damages of light attack was really high. After the 20% nerf of these one, the importance of light attacks damages is still consequent. That a great point for me : Weaving is a inherent par of the gameplay and it should be now push people to progress in this way.
- Jewelry crafting : As destruction stafs, this changement offers many differents possibilities and allows to combine easily craftable and lootable sets. Nice.
- Jewelry traits : Hum... Until the 4.0.3 patch, after test many sets and many trait combinasons, I found Bloodthirsty trait was very intersting but to some extent. Contrary to some Magblade results, I don't think a Magsorc can use 3 x BT. Now, it seems totally useless for me : the nerf was to hard. 15% could be a compromise... Infused trait confers less spell damages than the Arcane trait because the gain of magicka. I'm confused, It's very disappointing.
About this last point, the post of @Gallagher563 propose you to vote here and give you're opinion about the nerf of this trait.
Well that's my opinion here. I will be happy to read other Magsorc opinions.
Magickally yours
Edit :
I didn't talk about the new trial set cause I didn't try it in old trials. The structure of it is interesting but it couldn't be not on trials where we need many deplacements.Edited by MandaWa on May 9, 2018 9:45PM- Manda Wa - Magicka Sorcerer - Flawless Conqueror, Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Voice of Reason, Shadow Breaker
- Man'da - Templar healer - Dro-m'Athra Destroyer - Shadow Breaker
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