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PTS Update 18 - Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance
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Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
Drop Surge. Put on one stamina regen glyph on jewelry if needed. Or Absorp Stamina weapon glyph if you can expend the Concussion chance.
Spell power pots are really not an option in no-CP. I'm running Shackle, Amber and two sustain glyphs and in combat I need those tri-pots practically on cool down.
In BGs, people CC and Defile your on CD with cost increase poisons. Hell, even I'm running entrap + stam cost increase and I'm a MagSorc. I can drive MagSorcs out of stamina in about 30" flat. That's if they're running as high sustain as me. If they're not they need to gtfo within 10" or they are dead.EU | PC | AD0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »Rune Cage may make us more effective against the few suckers still wearing light and medium (which is why @DDuke protests so much), but I don't see it shifting the meta too much in our favor against everyone else. I think the best thing to do is see how the new Rune Cage plays out on live, and THEN debate the pros and cons of a re-work or nerf.
Do I understand this correct, that in your opinion med and light armor builds (outside of sorc because you are playing one rofl) shouldn't be viable in PvP?
It's not my opinion that medium and light shouldn't be viable.
It is my opinion that medium and light are severely gimped in PvP, which is why almost everybody who has a viable choice to play heavy does so. Magicka Sorcerers don't really have that choice. I've tried to make heavy work for me on multiple occasions, and it just doesn't get the job done.
The reality I live in is that my Sorcerer needs to do way more damage, way faster, so that I can kill these tougher builds before they kill me. I know nobody asked for this buff to Rune Cage, but I'll take any extra damage I can get!
Edited by Emma_Overload on May 8, 2018 3:59PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
Drop Surge. Put on one stamina regen glyph on jewelry if needed. Or Absorp Stamina weapon glyph if you can expend the Concussion chance.
Spell power pots are really not an option in no-CP. I'm running Shackle, Amber and two sustain glyphs and in combat I need those tri-pots practically on cool down.
In BGs, people CC and Defile your on CD with cost increase poisons. Hell, even I'm running entrap + stam cost increase and I'm a MagSorc. I can drive MagSorcs out of stamina in about 30" flat. That's if they're running as high sustain as me. If they're not they need to gtfo within 10" or they are dead.
Would Meditate solve that problem?1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
Drop Surge. Put on one stamina regen glyph on jewelry if needed. Or Absorp Stamina weapon glyph if you can expend the Concussion chance.
Spell power pots are really not an option in no-CP. I'm running Shackle, Amber and two sustain glyphs and in combat I need those tri-pots practically on cool down.
In BGs, people CC and Defile your on CD with cost increase poisons. Hell, even I'm running entrap + stam cost increase and I'm a MagSorc. I can drive MagSorcs out of stamina in about 30" flat. That's if they're running as high sustain as me. If they're not they need to gtfo within 10" or they are dead.
Would Meditate solve that problem?
Dunno if it would fix it - but it would make you feel all calm and relaxed about it.
Minalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.6 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
Drop Surge. Put on one stamina regen glyph on jewelry if needed. Or Absorp Stamina weapon glyph if you can expend the Concussion chance.
Spell power pots are really not an option in no-CP. I'm running Shackle, Amber and two sustain glyphs and in combat I need those tri-pots practically on cool down.
In BGs, people CC and Defile your on CD with cost increase poisons. Hell, even I'm running entrap + stam cost increase and I'm a MagSorc. I can drive MagSorcs out of stamina in about 30" flat. That's if they're running as high sustain as me. If they're not they need to gtfo within 10" or they are dead.
Would Meditate solve that problem?
Dunno if it would fix it - but it would make you feel all calm and relaxed about it.
Maybe you could become one with the Force! THAT should solve it!0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.
Playing without frags is rough, every time a target is CC immune you can’t cage them. The downtime on cage is too damn high (which is fair) to replace frags.
If someone is Cc’ed by someone else, that cage burst isn’t there. You still need a proc’ed frag to fill in that slot.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original oneFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind
I´m sorry but morrowind sorc was weaker than at any other point in time. The current masterreach sorc that exists since cwc is better than what the class could do in morrowind (and they´re not great atm).<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 509 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.
Playing without frags is rough, every time a target is CC immune you can’t cage them. The downtime on cage is too damn high (which is fair) to replace frags.
If someone is Cc’ed by someone else, that cage burst isn’t there. You still need a proc’ed frag to fill in that slot.
True that. I'm using cage on live, have done since it became a stun. Open world is very hard to get a full damage combo to land on the same target, while they have immunity for the duration needed to set up your burst, without getting interrupted by cc yourself, and without having to break off to go defensive, without part of your burst or the cc hitting a different target.
I think the cage change won't make anywhere as much difference in open world as it will 1v1.Edited by Biro123 on May 8, 2018 5:38PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
Drop Surge. Put on one stamina regen glyph on jewelry if needed. Or Absorp Stamina weapon glyph if you can expend the Concussion chance.
Spell power pots are really not an option in no-CP. I'm running Shackle, Amber and two sustain glyphs and in combat I need those tri-pots practically on cool down.
In BGs, people CC and Defile your on CD with cost increase poisons. Hell, even I'm running entrap + stam cost increase and I'm a MagSorc. I can drive MagSorcs out of stamina in about 30" flat. That's if they're running as high sustain as me. If they're not they need to gtfo within 10" or they are dead.
Would Meditate solve that problem?
The solution to bar space problems cannot surely be another skill. If that was the case, we already have the solution: Dark Conversion.
Unless you are recommending I literally meditate over my problems. In which case I'll inform you that I've tried it and it doesn't work. Closest thing to bring to me to a meditative state is a night drive.EU | PC | AD0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
12 -
ezio45✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭sorc pvp heals kinds are lacking, i mean surge isnt viable, twilight has to be double bar'd and isnt good in pvp, exchange sucks because of the delay. like dks and nb have a attacks that heal templar has breath of life which is an instant heal. If sucks having to slot a resto on back bar just for the heal shield0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.
Playing without frags is rough, every time a target is CC immune you can’t cage them. The downtime on cage is too damn high (which is fair) to replace frags.
If someone is Cc’ed by someone else, that cage burst isn’t there. You still need a proc’ed frag to fill in that slot.
True that. I'm using cage on live, have done since it became a stun. Open world is very hard to get a full damage combo to land on the same target, while they have immunity for the duration needed to set up your burst, without getting interrupted by cc yourself, and without having to break off to go defensive, without part of your burst or the cc hitting a different target.
I think the cage change won't make anywhere as much difference in open world as it will 1v1.
Gonna have to disagree, it'll have the biggest impact in open world.
Scenario:
I'm 1vX'ing, zerg sees me, I try to dodge roll away... a sorc in that zerg casts Rune Cage (since there's no pressure on the sorc), lands frags, curse - dead.
I think you're only looking at it from the 1vX sorc's perspective, the skill will be a nightmare for any dodge roll oriented build in situations where you're outnumbered.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
Drop Surge. Put on one stamina regen glyph on jewelry if needed. Or Absorp Stamina weapon glyph if you can expend the Concussion chance.
Spell power pots are really not an option in no-CP. I'm running Shackle, Amber and two sustain glyphs and in combat I need those tri-pots practically on cool down.
In BGs, people CC and Defile your on CD with cost increase poisons. Hell, even I'm running entrap + stam cost increase and I'm a MagSorc. I can drive MagSorcs out of stamina in about 30" flat. That's if they're running as high sustain as me. If they're not they need to gtfo within 10" or they are dead.
Would Meditate solve that problem?
The solution to bar space problems cannot surely be another skill. If that was the case, we already have the solution: Dark Conversion.
Unless you are recommending I literally meditate over my problems. In which case I'll inform you that I've tried it and it doesn't work. Closest thing to bring to me to a meditative state is a night drive.
(^_^)'
Nah, I mean, you specifically mentioned BG. Meditate gives you stam AND magicka, so you need less stam sustain from your sets and potions. It's a channel, but maybe you can pop into cover for long enough?0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you're only looking at it from the 1vX sorc's perspective, the skill will be a nightmare for any dodge roll oriented build in situations where you're outnumbered.
Fixed that for you. It counters block aswell as dodge and when outnumbered even shield buidls are required to dodge/block.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.
Playing without frags is rough, every time a target is CC immune you can’t cage them. The downtime on cage is too damn high (which is fair) to replace frags.
If someone is Cc’ed by someone else, that cage burst isn’t there. You still need a proc’ed frag to fill in that slot.
True that. I'm using cage on live, have done since it became a stun. Open world is very hard to get a full damage combo to land on the same target, while they have immunity for the duration needed to set up your burst, without getting interrupted by cc yourself, and without having to break off to go defensive, without part of your burst or the cc hitting a different target.
I think the cage change won't make anywhere as much difference in open world as it will 1v1.
Gonna have to disagree, it'll have the biggest impact in open world.
Scenario:
I'm 1vX'ing, zerg sees me, I try to dodge roll away... a sorc in that zerg casts Rune Cage (since there's no pressure on the sorc), lands frags, curse - dead.
I think you're only looking at it from the 1vX sorc's perspective, the skill will be a nightmare for any dodge roll oriented build in situations where you're outnumbered.
It's already the case, if zerger want to target rollerblade, they can already use rune cage.
The instant damage is a problem, and ZoS should double the damage and make it a dot over 8s.2 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.
Playing without frags is rough, every time a target is CC immune you can’t cage them. The downtime on cage is too damn high (which is fair) to replace frags.
If someone is Cc’ed by someone else, that cage burst isn’t there. You still need a proc’ed frag to fill in that slot.
True that. I'm using cage on live, have done since it became a stun. Open world is very hard to get a full damage combo to land on the same target, while they have immunity for the duration needed to set up your burst, without getting interrupted by cc yourself, and without having to break off to go defensive, without part of your burst or the cc hitting a different target.
I think the cage change won't make anywhere as much difference in open world as it will 1v1.
Gonna have to disagree, it'll have the biggest impact in open world.
Scenario:
I'm 1vX'ing, zerg sees me, I try to dodge roll away... a sorc in that zerg casts Rune Cage (since there's no pressure on the sorc), lands frags, curse - dead.
I think you're only looking at it from the 1vX sorc's perspective, the skill will be a nightmare for any dodge roll oriented build in situations where you're outnumbered.
I'm not too sure.. You wouldn't believe how often when you have meteor ready, get frag to proc and the target doesn't have cc immunity, then some friendly reach-spammer ccs them just after you curse, following up with no burst and completely messing up your burst combo... Then you have to wait another 5 seconds to hope to get those stars to align again for the slim chance they don't do it again...
Don't get me wrong, it can be devastating but it really is a rarity outside of a 1v1.Edited by Biro123 on May 8, 2018 6:01PMMinalan owes me a beer.
PC EU Megaserver
Minie Mo - Stam/Magblade - DC
Woody Ron - Stamplar - DC
Aidee - Magsorc - DC
Notadorf - Stamsorc - DC
Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.2 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the tableFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
You really don´t want to start comparing assassins will to frags.
Or NB toolkit to sorc (outside of pet builds) in general. Imo.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 5010 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
I’m sorry you don’t, but 99% of your fellow nightblades DO.4 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.9 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege"
.
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual5 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
You guys are killing me today.
0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.
Playing without frags is rough, every time a target is CC immune you can’t cage them. The downtime on cage is too damn high (which is fair) to replace frags.
If someone is Cc’ed by someone else, that cage burst isn’t there. You still need a proc’ed frag to fill in that slot.
True that. I'm using cage on live, have done since it became a stun. Open world is very hard to get a full damage combo to land on the same target, while they have immunity for the duration needed to set up your burst, without getting interrupted by cc yourself, and without having to break off to go defensive, without part of your burst or the cc hitting a different target.
I think the cage change won't make anywhere as much difference in open world as it will 1v1.
Gonna have to disagree, it'll have the biggest impact in open world.
Scenario:
I'm 1vX'ing, zerg sees me, I try to dodge roll away... a sorc in that zerg casts Rune Cage (since there's no pressure on the sorc), lands frags, curse - dead.
I think you're only looking at it from the 1vX sorc's perspective, the skill will be a nightmare for any dodge roll oriented build in situations where you're outnumbered.
It's already the case, if zerger want to target rollerblade, they can already use rune cage.
The instant damage is a problem, and ZoS should double the damage and make it a dot over 8s.
Sure, but atleast it doesn't kill me on Live... you can usually CC break, eat a frag/curse->Vigor+Cloak->Sneak. Unless it's combo'd with a meteor that is (and sorc uses a det pot so I can't pre-emptively cloak+block the meteor).All I know is, finding bar space for Rune Cage in no-CP PvP is nigh on impossible...
Dark Conversion, the skill that would make way in CP content, is virtually undroppable or RIP sustain. Power Surge is a must, because choosing to run spell power pots over tri-pots is suicide. Resto ult is the difference between life and death in many fights and having it on an overload bar is both glitchy and technically cheating. Your 3 shields are obviously a must, as is Streak/BoL. Same for Curse and your spammable of choice.
That means dropping either Fury or Frags to make space for it. Good luck with that.
I’m already playing without frags on live if I want to play with rune cage instead of reach, and that playstyle is getting buffed both damage wise and because I get to have a full 2p set now instead of domi. So yeah.
Playing without frags is rough, every time a target is CC immune you can’t cage them. The downtime on cage is too damn high (which is fair) to replace frags.
If someone is Cc’ed by someone else, that cage burst isn’t there. You still need a proc’ed frag to fill in that slot.
True that. I'm using cage on live, have done since it became a stun. Open world is very hard to get a full damage combo to land on the same target, while they have immunity for the duration needed to set up your burst, without getting interrupted by cc yourself, and without having to break off to go defensive, without part of your burst or the cc hitting a different target.
I think the cage change won't make anywhere as much difference in open world as it will 1v1.
Gonna have to disagree, it'll have the biggest impact in open world.
Scenario:
I'm 1vX'ing, zerg sees me, I try to dodge roll away... a sorc in that zerg casts Rune Cage (since there's no pressure on the sorc), lands frags, curse - dead.
I think you're only looking at it from the 1vX sorc's perspective, the skill will be a nightmare for any dodge roll oriented build in situations where you're outnumbered.
I'm not too sure.. You wouldn't believe how often when you have meteor ready, get frag to proc and the target doesn't have cc immunity, then some friendly reach-spammer ccs them just after you curse, following up with no burst and completely messing up your burst combo... Then you have to wait another 5 seconds to hope to get those stars to align again for the slim chance they don't do it again...
Don't get me wrong, it can be devastating but it really is a rarity outside of a 1v1.
Well that's the sorc perspective again :P
As a dodge roll oriented build (especially when playing a kiting oriented build) the only things that can really CC you when you're escaping are Leap/Meteor, friendly reach-spammer won't land a single reach.
But I get what you're saying, that's really annoying on mDK as well when you want to fossilize combo someone & they get CC immunity from some random source lolEdited by DDuke on May 8, 2018 6:42PM0 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual4 -
Subversus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.
Funny pun at the start there, +1 for that.
Sure, nbs are more mobile in a certain given area, but sorcs are far more mobile overall. Not to mention that “ignore stamina” is completely wrong. There’s a reason the only viable spec for magblade nowadays is 2h/resto. Like come on...
From someone who plays both, the difference is extremely noticeable. My sorc is moving like Hermes from the Greek mythology compared to my magblade.
Sorcs have the same cc as nbs, albeit it does more damage but stuns 1 less person. Sorcs also have an (aoe!) immobilize, as nbs. The fact that cripple does damage is probably due to how sorcs are a burst oriented class while magblade is more about pressure.
Please don’t start going on about how Sorcs have less burst, lol. Sorc burst is unmatched even on live. The fact that nbs have “better” burst thanks to an ultimate is completely irrelevant, sorcs also have an ultimate. I do agree that incap is overloaded as fucc, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Outside incap magblade has literally no burst. Merciless alone isn’t considered burst.
0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There’s a reason the only viable spec for magblade nowadays is 2h/resto. Like come on...
Wait what? I didn´t get that memo
I´d also say will alone is burst when you figure in that it has ~40% higher tooltip than procced frags on comparable builds + an additional 10% critdmg aswell.
<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 502 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »
Except they’ll nerf frags again or something completely unrelated. The issue is that the devs don’t actually play the PVP game.
Bottom line, I was running cage with @RinaldoGandolphi and @Minno this weekend, both of them were running stamina builds. I called out cage targets in voice chat and EVERYONE I caged died.
“Cage on the Tank DK!” CLANG! BASH! SLICE! WRATH! Dead.
The skill doesn’t really need a buff at all when used correctly. Frags needed the stun back.
No, frags needs it's damage back but the stun needed to go. When the choice to take away the extra damage was made it solidified my opinion on whether Wrobel plays the game a lot or not. The CC is what made sorcs super powerful and hard to counter back in Morrowind/homestead. But Frags got over nerfed because the first nerf didn't work so they added another without reverting the original one
I loved how all of the nightblades, with their stun out of stealth, unbreakable and unavoidable fear, and spammable incap strike whined about FRAGS with a STUN.
Frags is:
Dodgeable
Blockable
Telegraphed by purple glowy hands.
Slow projectile.
The NB crying landed us a nerf. The class was not viable for months, and to fix it ZOS gave us an even stronger ability that’s NOT that much different from nightblade unavoidable burst damage combos (fear/incap).
I didn’t ask for it, but I’m not sorry for what I’m going to do to you guys in Cyrodiil with it.
I don't use incap
But hey lets give assassin's will a stun?
No thats a bad idea! It's meant to do burst damage just like frags. It needs it's damage buffed. But the CC coming back is off the table
If NBs lost their Fear, lost their Incap, lost their bonus damage, lost their self-heals, lost their cloak, and Assassins will was turned into this huge purple rock I could not help but see incoming even in the laggiest of servers, I would not have a problem with Assassin's will stunning.
We call this "Nightblade Privilege".
You never truly appreciate what the lesser classes have to deal with until your advantage is stripped
Wait, is sorc considered a “lesser class”? Lol
Glad you found the subversive second joke in there lol.
But they aren't wrong; nightblade has access to a wealth of dangerous advantage that sorcs have to crutch on shields. Nightblades have 2 reposition mechanics which ignore stamina, they have an unlocked cc and an immobilze, two DMG spamable with a huge burst with minor beserk attached and they have a global 20% DMG buff locked behind a defile/stun.
Sorcs have no spamable, Shields, streak with a cost increase, no stamina management outside a channeled dark deal, and a heal that requires crits. They needed the unblocked stun, their curse to rearm, and stamina needed hurricane.
Of the two, nightblade is better. Even nightblades say their only counter is another nightblade lol.
Funny pun at the start there, +1 for that.
Sure, nbs are more mobile in a certain given area, but sorcs are far more mobile overall. Not to mention that “ignore stamina” is completely wrong. There’s a reason the only viable spec for magblade nowadays is 2h/resto. Like come on...
From someone who plays both, the difference is extremely noticeable. My sorc is moving like Hermes from the Greek mythology compared to my magblade.
Sorcs have the same cc as nbs, albeit it does more damage but stuns 1 less person. Sorcs also have an (aoe!) immobilize, as nbs. The fact that cripple does damage is probably due to how sorcs are a burst oriented class while magblade is more about pressure.
Please don’t start going on about how Sorcs have less burst, lol. Sorc burst is unmatched even on live. The fact that nbs have “better” burst thanks to an ultimate is completely irrelevant, sorcs also have an ultimate. I do agree that incap is overloaded as fucc, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves. Outside incap magblade has literally no burst. Merciless alone isn’t considered burst.
That nightblades have better burst with a 70 cost ultimate is very relevant. That’s almost spammable it’s so cheap!
I read stuff like this, and I’m like... what in the hell are you trying to pull? What kind of twisted leaps of forum blade logic are you trying to lead us through to fool us into thinking that your class is weak and helpless?!7
