Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.
I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.
And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.
I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.
And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.
I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.
So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.
Oh tell me about it.
I could share stories up down and sideways about the other side of the spectrum as well as PVP, but PVP's got a particular flavor of toxic if that makes sense.
DieAlteHexe wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.
I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.
And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.
I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.
And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.
I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.
So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.
Oh tell me about it.
I could share stories up down and sideways about the other side of the spectrum as well as PVP, but PVP's got a particular flavor of toxic if that makes sense.
Yeah, it makes sense. I guess one plus for PvP is that you can (at least try) to clobber the arse-hats. I just have a thick skin from doing CS/TS as a career so it doesn't get to me (PvP or PvE) but I've seen some really nasty PvE folk (other games) in raiding situations. Holy moly.
DieAlteHexe wrote: »
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »1. Because PvP creates toxic environments.
2. Because PvP encourages poor attitudes and immature rivalry
3. Because Many PvP players disdain PvE players as a lower form of life. were not worthy because we don't play the hard stuff.
4. Because PvP players disregard PvE players wants and needs when it comes to balance. THEY are more important, thus the impact of changes on PvE are irrelevant. The PvE players game gets tossed on its head because of PvP regularly.
6. Because PvP in a PvE game kills the PvE game. And Vice versa if you want to know the truth.
I used to PvP allot ages ago. did the whole gamut in most MMO's I played. Got burnt out on it. Too much toxicity and immature behaviors. I'm watching my son go through the same thing as he is very much into competitive games on his xbox, and I hear all about the horrid behaviors people exemplify in PvP. It's not gotten any better...it's only getting worse.
And add to that, the ego's and disdain that PvP players have for those who simply don't want to deal with it, and the nerf after nerf for classes that really do Impact PvE, but PvP players don't care. They just hop off to their next whine train about X class with Y ability.
I do my best to have patience and understanding with PvP players. It's very sad that many of them don't do the same for PvE. I respect their desire to have a playable PvP element, and there are those PvP players that understand the PvE needs... but they are a rare bird. I don't hate PvP, I just don't have the time and energy for it anymore. with a career and a house and a family to take care of, real life has enough challenges, I play these games to relax and unwind. Don't need some 12 yr old teabagging me an hour after I just put my son on restriction because he was behaving just as poorly.
And the day they take PvP out of my PvE game is the day they will be able to decently balance PvE classes. To be fair, PvE impacts PvP in similar ways (as regards to balance). that is why many MMO's these days are going towards a split skill system, where they can balance PvP and PvE skills separately. ESO needs to do the same, for the benefit of both the PvP and PvE players.
I could substitute PvE every where you wrote PvP with the same truth.
It is immature players and the lack of repercussions hiding behind a screen that cause bad behavior in both PvE and PvP.
So, so, soooooo true. There are some real arse-hats in PvE as well. REAL arse-hats.
Oh tell me about it.
I could share stories up down and sideways about the other side of the spectrum as well as PVP, but PVP's got a particular flavor of toxic if that makes sense.
Yeah, it makes sense. I guess one plus for PvP is that you can (at least try) to clobber the arse-hats. I just have a thick skin from doing CS/TS as a career so it doesn't get to me (PvP or PvE) but I've seen some really nasty PvE folk (other games) in raiding situations. Holy moly.
That's honestly -where- that type of mentality breeds, the competative types. It's allways raids, it's allways geting the fastest, the best clears, and so on and so fourth, and because of the same values, it has alot of the same issues and attracts alot of the same problem people.
But I dont doubt you've seen some stuff. And a little less meme worthy than the 'moar dots' bit. There are some -seriously- unhinged people at that level.
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »As a PvEer who has done some PvP I don't hate it, nor am I scared of it. I just prefer PvE. Rather like when I go to a restaurant and eat meat although I've tasted some seafood. I don't hate seafood, nor am I scared of it, I just prefer meat. Why do some people have to use terms like "hate" or "scared" in relation to what is essentially a personal preference, no more no less?
Because it's the only way they can rationalize it having spent too much time in a competative environment that it's colored their perception of not just that environment, but the world.
You spend enough time in a competative environment and you start to view anyone who does not want to be in that environment as a loser. As too slow. As too weak.
DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.
Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.
Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.
If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.
Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are
I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.
terrordactyl1971 wrote: »Pvp in this game only works for the 720s with elite gear and builds. For everyone else its horrible
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
DieAlteHexe wrote: »Nyghthowler wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.
Unless they want to pay my sub.
This sums it up for me, too. I have M.S.; my reaction times are bad. My fingers don't always hit the buttons I tell them to. I don't play vet or hard mode group ANYTHING so as not to waste others time. Why would I want to waste mine getting repeatedly killed and t-bagged?
Similar issues so, boy, can I relate. Nothing like meaning to poke 3 and hitting 5. Can result in a dirt nap.
Heh, yeah, I don't feel right inflicting myself on others, especially strangers. Once in awhile when I'm having a good day, I might do a PUG but it's getting really rare.
DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.
Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.
Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.
If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.
Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are
I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.
Lol, if I had a nickle everytime I was "insulted" with "casual" or "carebear" I'd be richer than I already am! I'm like, yes, yes I am! I'm a super casual! I like being told a bedtime story. I enjoy smashing thru the easy overworld even though I can solo dungeons and n.maelstrom is a joke to me.
I enjoy people watching and lending a hand to that player who is having problems with content that I can clear in seconds. I spend hour upon hours designing my toons, dressing them up and getting the right equipment to complete their "look". I enjoy picking flowers just as much as I enjoy pvping.
No shame whatsoever, I guess if your not into winning something anymore in virtual land you shouldn't be playing videogames? Crazy thing is I had a similar mindset 10-15 years ago, just had to be the best in every match, in every game and took gaming and PvP in particular way too seriously.
It wasn't until my 12 year old nephews looked at me one day saying simply, "it's just a game" that I realized, I'm way too old to be acting like this and gaming became fun again. It even made enjoy pvp again and I do it quite often.
WakeYourGhost wrote: »PvPers treat PvEers like Trash, so a lot of PvEers hate PvP.
PvEers treat PvPers like Trash, so a lot of PvPers hate PvE.
This game's content, on both sides, tends to break down to a frenzied mess of sudden damage bursts that lead to a few skilled players surviving and 97% of players all dying to what amounts to a One-shot.
PvE is more predictable, and thus "Easy."
PvP is more random, and thus "Hard."
PvE is more "compact", and thus it always has some for of "engaging" feature. You're never more than a sneeze away from a fight or something to do. It's usually the same dull things to do, though - ymmv.
PvP is more "Spread Out", and thus you tend to have stretches of Nothing before a short flurry of activity. Even sieges tend to go quick most of the time. Many players tend to ride out to do something, die suddenly to one of countless "cheap" tricks in PvP, and have to repeat this process.
Both sides have elitists, both sides have toxicity, and both sides have trash players thinking they are Vaermina's Gift to Tamriel.
....Ohh, and - Most PvE/Pers don't actually have an issue with either side. Fun fact, the forums tend to be the same recycled group of self-entitled malcontents complaining about every change and finding the "other side" easy to Blame for all their Woes. These prickly Cactus-Porcupine hybrids slathered in Venom and Bile don't actually represent even 1/10th of the community.
Most people do one, the other, or Both forms of content without having an issue or problem with either side.
That being said, most people who are reasonably reluctant to try PvP just know the reputation of the aggressively hostile attitude a handful of PvPers get when they get competitive, and find themselves assuming all PvPers are like that.
PvP is much more fun if you turn Zone chat off, relax, and maybe go in with Friends or play with people you know aren't prone to meltdowns and petty childish behavior. A few Muck-Stains on Nirn can easily cloud out otherwise fun or exciting content in a coat of perceived Toxic Filth.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »
The PvPers' responses in this thread explain it all : toxic mentality.
DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.
Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.
Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.
If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.
Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are
I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.
Lol, if I had a nickle everytime I was "insulted" with "casual" or "carebear" I'd be richer than I already am! I'm like, yes, yes I am! I'm a super casual! I like being told a bedtime story. I enjoy smashing thru the easy overworld even though I can solo dungeons and n.maelstrom is a joke to me.
I enjoy people watching and lending a hand to that player who is having problems with content that I can clear in seconds. I spend hour upon hours designing my toons, dressing them up and getting the right equipment to complete their "look". I enjoy picking flowers just as much as I enjoy pvping.
No shame whatsoever, I guess if your not into winning something anymore in virtual land you shouldn't be playing videogames? Crazy thing is I had a similar mindset 10-15 years ago, just had to be the best in every match, in every game and took gaming and PvP in particular way too seriously.
It wasn't until my 12 year old nephews looked at me one day saying simply, "it's just a game" that I realized, I'm way too old to be acting like this and gaming became fun again. It even made enjoy pvp again and I do it quite often.
I would be far more interested in PvP were there to be some sort of strategy, organisation, intent but for about a decade now it's been (not all but most) LEEEEROOOOOOOOY JENKINS style. ZergFest. Blech.
I wish there were more ways to help the cause without actually going out there and slugging; building, gathering, crafting etc. Be glad to do stuff like that (and no, I do not want to repair walls).
Ah well, I'm having fun, frolicking about carebearing my way through Tamriel.
WakeYourGhost wrote: »PvPers treat PvEers like Trash, so a lot of PvEers hate PvP.
PvEers treat PvPers like Trash, so a lot of PvPers hate PvE.
This game's content, on both sides, tends to break down to a frenzied mess of sudden damage bursts that lead to a few skilled players surviving and 97% of players all dying to what amounts to a One-shot.
PvE is more predictable, and thus "Easy."
PvP is more random, and thus "Hard."
PvE is more "compact", and thus it always has some for of "engaging" feature. You're never more than a sneeze away from a fight or something to do. It's usually the same dull things to do, though - ymmv.
PvP is more "Spread Out", and thus you tend to have stretches of Nothing before a short flurry of activity. Even sieges tend to go quick most of the time. Many players tend to ride out to do something, die suddenly to one of countless "cheap" tricks in PvP, and have to repeat this process.
Both sides have elitists, both sides have toxicity, and both sides have trash players thinking they are Vaermina's Gift to Tamriel.
....Ohh, and - Most PvE/Pers don't actually have an issue with either side. Fun fact, the forums tend to be the same recycled group of self-entitled malcontents complaining about every change and finding the "other side" easy to Blame for all their Woes. These prickly Cactus-Porcupine hybrids slathered in Venom and Bile don't actually represent even 1/10th of the community.
Most people do one, the other, or Both forms of content without having an issue or problem with either side.
That being said, most people who are reasonably reluctant to try PvP just know the reputation of the aggressively hostile attitude a handful of PvPers get when they get competitive, and find themselves assuming all PvPers are like that.
PvP is much more fun if you turn Zone chat off, relax, and maybe go in with Friends or play with people you know aren't prone to meltdowns and petty childish behavior. A few Muck-Stains on Nirn can easily cloud out otherwise fun or exciting content in a coat of perceived Toxic Filth.
Yes. All this is true. And that's really all I'm trying to say in my posts.
I don't get why it has to be a finger pointing, "either/or" situation.
I enjoy running hard PvE content..the thrill of overcoming mechanics and chasing gear. Getting achievements and helping friends with gear and builds.
I also love how PvP can get hectic when two zergs clash over a keep, or your small group runs into a group on the opposite side running out in the open. The tactics and counters each player can make against eachother.
Both are so good to me.
And I get that players have a preference. Truly.
But let's not pretend one is more toxic than the other. It's not. In my personal experience I've found PvE to be more toxic. I've never been kicked from a PvP group, or asked for a gear check, or had to prove anything before I could join a group.
You get tested in PvP by doing...and I like that. Ymmv
Both sides have thier bad apples, no doubt. I just don't see why it has to be one or the other.
terrordactyl1971 wrote: »Pvp in this game only works for the 720s with elite gear and builds. For everyone else its horrible
DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »The odd thing is many pure PvErs on here seem to think as you kill each other people are toxic and harsh.
Yet in my experience, and from this forum PvPers are actually helpful to each other and the real toxic / elitist snobbery happens in trials where you are meant to work together.
Many PvE folk fear the 'bag' however like its something terrible.
If by "the bag" you mean the tea-bag emote...fear? Not a bit. It just seems so junior high-ish ala "look! I have dangly bits!11!!1!, phear me". I think the broom one is amusing.
Spot on, it's just that a bit of comedy. But ive seen some.PvE only folks get seriously offended by it, it's jist pixels but i guess it depends how serious a gamer you are
I'm very serious about my gaming. But probably not like some of the PvP folk I've encountered. It's like someone calling me a "casual" as if that's meant to upset me. I'm seriously casual. Passionately casual. When I game, I aim to do my best. My challenge is to improve, learn, find etc. Not clobber someone and do a silly emote on them or be emoted upon. I guess I could see how someone would find "the bag" offensive but to me it's just the testosterone talking.
Lol, if I had a nickle everytime I was "insulted" with "casual" or "carebear" I'd be richer than I already am! I'm like, yes, yes I am! I'm a super casual! I like being told a bedtime story. I enjoy smashing thru the easy overworld even though I can solo dungeons and n.maelstrom is a joke to me.
I enjoy people watching and lending a hand to that player who is having problems with content that I can clear in seconds. I spend hour upon hours designing my toons, dressing them up and getting the right equipment to complete their "look". I enjoy picking flowers just as much as I enjoy pvping.
No shame whatsoever, I guess if your not into winning something anymore in virtual land you shouldn't be playing videogames? Crazy thing is I had a similar mindset 10-15 years ago, just had to be the best in every match, in every game and took gaming and PvP in particular way too seriously.
It wasn't until my 12 year old nephews looked at me one day saying simply, "it's just a game" that I realized, I'm way too old to be acting like this and gaming became fun again. It even made enjoy pvp again and I do it quite often.
I would be far more interested in PvP were there to be some sort of strategy, organisation, intent but for about a decade now it's been (not all but most) LEEEEROOOOOOOOY JENKINS style. ZergFest. Blech.
I wish there were more ways to help the cause without actually going out there and slugging; building, gathering, crafting etc. Be glad to do stuff like that (and no, I do not want to repair walls).
Ah well, I'm having fun, frolicking about carebearing my way through Tamriel.
Now see that's where we part ways. I LOVE zerging in cyro. 20 something players rushing onto the battlefield to take on another 20 something group, smashing into each other like a huge royal rumble over and over until one is beaten into submission, love it.
I most definitely enjoy smaller scale engagements as well, but there are better games for that type of action since ZOS can't seem to get BG's right, not yet anyway. I hate playing an objective based game mode and half the team treats it like it's a freaking DM and wonder why we lost.
But but I got so many kills! Congrats, maybe focus on something other than your kdr and we might win next time? PvP does NOT equate to JUST killing the other team. It means player vs player and that entails a slew of different objectives other than outkilling the other team people.
Charliff1966 wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »Nyghthowler wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »I don't hate PvP. I just know my limits and abilities. I suck. No ifs ands or buts about it. As such, it's no fun at all. The only reason then for me to PvP would be to provide content for someone else and, well, sorry, not going to do that.
Unless they want to pay my sub.
This sums it up for me, too. I have M.S.; my reaction times are bad. My fingers don't always hit the buttons I tell them to. I don't play vet or hard mode group ANYTHING so as not to waste others time. Why would I want to waste mine getting repeatedly killed and t-bagged?
Similar issues so, boy, can I relate. Nothing like meaning to poke 3 and hitting 5. Can result in a dirt nap.
Heh, yeah, I don't feel right inflicting myself on others, especially strangers. Once in awhile when I'm having a good day, I might do a PUG but it's getting really rare.
Same here, not MS but using very strong medication so my reaction time can be slow. PvP would spit me out. When i play i like to forget RL as much as possible, PvP would show my limitations.
Scorpiodisc wrote: »
Because several pve players think PvP community is responsible for all nerfs that we see often added with each update.
I don't blame the community but after playing MMOs for almost 18 years I've pretty much come to the conclusion that PvE and PvP simply don't mix well in one game. Keeping classes, skills and gear balanced for one side is hard enough, for both sides at the same time is a nightmare. Devs insisting on adding both to a game simply set themselves up for failure and all the backlash from the community that comes with it.