Why do most pve players hate pvp?

Inarre

What is your basis for "most" pve players "hating" pvp?

Jhalin

Because it's boring, the definition of a grind where nothing you do has any tangible consequences either good or bad. Death is a meaningless status. Wipe out an entire zerg (an "army") and not 30 seconds later they're all right back where they died. If people wanted a Hoard mode game then they go buy one. The most strategic form of combat available to players is what people call "unfair", aka spying, alliance hopping, group ambushes and 1 on 1 ganking. Yeah it's unpredictable, and it's no better for it. There's still no incentive for people to keep on their toes in Cyrodiil because death isn't a meaningful punishment there.

Orticia

laurajf wrote: »

When I sit down at the end of a long hard workday, the last thing I want to do is get all riled up with adrenaline pumping and being anxious about someone coming out of nowhere while I'm trying to just relax and de-stress from my day. The older I get, the more I feel that way. I also have no urge to learn all the skills of every other class (that I don't play) just to know what they can do so I can counteract it.

These days, games for me are just for relaxation and story. I don't need to prove anything (already did that all day at work, and I get paid for that). It's a bit of time to immerse myself into a different life for a bit to escape the real world stress for an hour or so each night. A character that feels comfortable, good enough gear to get by but nothing "specialized," a nice outfit or two so I look good (to me), and the ability to just wander around and look at the sights and help a few NPCs out with their problems. I don't research games to find out how to be the best, I don't use training dummies or keep spreadsheets, and I pay no attention to meta builds, meta gear, meta stats, rotations, grinding, CP points, etc.

Ahhh...relaxation.

With all that said, you can see why I don't care for PVP. To be fair, I feel the same way about group dungeons/trials/etc. My hour or so each night for gaming is precious time for me, as I have little free time, and I prefer mellow activities during that time.

Sooooooooooooo much this, completely.

Doctordarkspawn

Look at every single insulting response, and you'll see the answer.

People who play PVE play to relax. Having some guy screaming at us isn't a relaxing environment.

And the sheer hate for us is a great representation of that. Competative environments allways breed bad-actors. And I dont wanna deal with that when I get home.

Samadhi

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

...
People who play PVE play to relax. Having some guy screaming at us isn't a relaxing environment.

Personally find solo PvP far more relaxing than group PvE, precisely on this basis

It helps that my status gets set to Offline in Cyrodiil, so players from enemy teams can't whine or berate me for killing them

Hippie4927

I am mostly a pve'er but I love pvp. I suck at it and die a lot but I have fun and I have learned quite a bit from my time in Cyrodiil. I spent all day yesterday in Cyrodiil and Imperial City. I was killed 4 times by the same player but managed to get the skyshards I needed, did some quests, and hung the EP banner in one area. I was careful to bank my TV often so the player that kept killing me didn't get much. It was a fun day.

Sevn

I do both, but I'd like to address a few misconceptions. Pver's are afraid to die? Maybe for a few, but most die all the time to npc's, you all are really feeling yourselves if you think they're afraid to die to some random nobodies.

This games PvP sucks. Why play an rpg for its pvp? Can't pick your preferred game mode in BG's, IC has no point which makes it suck and cyro is a lagfest whenever a large scale battle takes place, the very thing cyro was built for.

There are much better PvP oriented games out there, maybe you all should try some real PvP games instead of hiding in eso's version of it. Or are you playing eso's version because it's easier to win against potatoes than playing PvP oriented games?

You all speak of challenge yet never fight anyone good. Most good players completely ignore other good players to fight people they know they can beat, and you have the nerve to belittle pver's for fighting scripted npc's?

There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? About beating some random person? How did you win? Was it your gear? Was it their gear? You have no idea, but you'll pretend it was all skill so you can pat yourself on the back thinking, "I'm so awesome!".

I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?

Lastly, how hard is it to understand that there are some gamers who just don't get any enjoyment out of being superior to their fellow gamer, they'd rather work with another human instead of against them, not that hard to understand.

Kiralyn2000

I've tried PvP in games in the past (did some in early WoW, a little counterstrike/quake/Unreal), and.... I just don't enjoy it.

For one, I'm not terribly competitive - I never liked IRL team sports (either as a player, or watching my school's team), and tended to go for solo pursuits like archery. I don't care about PvE leaderboards or 'world first' raid guilds. And I don't care about beating someone in a battleground. About the only competitive thing I do in my life is play boardgames with friends.
(video-game-wise, I mostly play solo RPGs and action games, and I rarely bother with higher difficulties or getting all the trophies. MMOs, I play as solo RPG/adventure games.)

For second, I've always found the pvp playerbase to be awful. Not all of them, of course, but more than enough to poison the entire thing - hypercompetitive, trash-talking, tea-bagging, egotistical, hostile, etc. Some of the most unpleasant people I've had the misfortune to encounter. There's a reason all those pvp game companies are trying to fight 'toxic' players.

So, yeah. Haven't bothered with PvP in years. Not in MMOs, not in MOBAs, not in FPS's. Just not interested.



..and yeah, none of my Stam characters are ever going to have Vigor. Ah, well. Them's the breaks. /shrug

runesword007

I use to love pvp, the challenge, seeing if i am better then other players, the whole nine yards. but now, i just dont get into it any more. (and really dont care if i am better or not) Alot of it stems from the fact that i just want to play a game and relax and enjoy it. and pvp can get to be very stressful play. granted in eso i only touched pvp once or twice, but in other mmo's i was pretty hard core about it. but today i just dont care for it anymore. I do get the itch for it once in awile so i do jump onto world of tanks for my pvp fix maybe once every few months, but thats about the extend of my pvp these days.

Zach2322

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Really?

Now, I'm talking magic based, ice staff, light armor, ignoring the animal and plant skills warden. Still feel the same way?

That is severely gimped even for pve overland, let alone any dungeon or trial. Your in light armor but you are using the skill lines that is main purpose for cc, self buffs and tanking. You ignore the skill line that will boost your damage that can be used along with the ice abilities. You ignore the the skill line that gives you resource sustain and your best healing. All of this just so you can play how you want?

That seems even more backwards....

Also please don't say you have tri focus with the ice staff. You will draw more flak.

KiraTsukasa

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Not in MMOs, not in MOBAs, not in FPS's.

And MOBAs are the WORST. I play Smite from time to time, which I enjoy as a concept, but I can only tolerate playing for a week or two before I leave the game for months at a time. The players get so toxic that if you die even ONCE, WW2 was a tea party in comparison.

GrumpyDuckling

I play both and I enjoy both. What I hate is when PVP balance decisions negatively PVE.

It's annoying when obvious PVP balance changes reduce effectiveness of skills in PVE.

M_Volsung

Too many toxic players turned PvP into a *** measuring contest.

I just want to do some delves and collect some skyshards without being used so someone can be a stallion with his anime bodypillow later that night.

Samadhi

Sevn wrote: »

...
There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? ...

Sevn wrote: »

...
I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?
...

The fun is engaging with fellow Elder Scrolls fans in the type of interactions we discussed back when we were each the Nerevarine
or the Champion of Cyrodiil

Taking games seriously tends to kill their fun tho
so can see why people who take PvE seriously and want to treat PvP the same would miss the simple enjoyment and comedy of interaction with other players

Sevn wrote: »

...
Lastly, how hard is it to understand that there are some gamers who just don't get any enjoyment out of being superior to their fellow gamer, they'd rather work with another human instead of against them, not that hard to understand.

Not hard to understand at all,
this gives rise to my preference to having fun running solo in Cyrodiil
as opposed to joining an end-game Trials guild and striving to be 'the best'
or trying to top Leaderboards for VMA or otherwise outperforming the majority of players by taking special challenge runs
or seeking to dominate the market as leader of a trade guild

The Killer archetype of deriving enjoyment from outperforming others is not limited to PvP
just game makers tend to put the most mechanics and systems to appeal to their archetype into PvP

Kiralyn2000

Samadhi wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

...
There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? ...

Sevn wrote: »

...
I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?
...

The fun is engaging with fellow Elder Scrolls fans in the type of interactions we discussed back when we were each the Nerevarine
or the Champion of Cyrodiil

Not sure what you're trying to say here. I don't recall finishing Morrowind or Oblivion and wanting to fight other players.

Samadhi

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Not in MMOs, not in MOBAs, not in FPS's.

And MOBAs are the WORST. I play Smite from time to time, which I enjoy as a concept, but I can only tolerate playing for a week or two before I leave the game for months at a time. The players get so toxic that if you die even ONCE, WW2 was a tea party in comparison.

Toxicity in Overwatch (effectively a MOBA FPS?) kept me out of competitive, despite wanting a golden weapon skin for Mercy

Would just mute *** in Quickplay and/or ignore providing them heals for flaming too much

Toxicity in PvE Overwatch, where people would melt down during the Halloween event that simply pitted a team of players against waves of NPCs
really set me off the game all together for months tho
it was frustrating to hear the slurs and racist/sexist insults people would drop if the team got overpowered -_-

Tabbycat

There's no PvP in TES.

Of course there's no multi-player in TES either so I guess that kinda negates my own reasoning.

However, I'd like to point out that when I was playing Skyrim I got a really cool set of Nightingale armor that had a cloak.

Sevn

Samadhi wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

...
There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? ...

Sevn wrote: »

...
I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?
...

The fun is engaging with fellow Elder Scrolls fans in the type of interactions we discussed back when we were each the Nerevarine
or the Champion of Cyrodiil

Taking games seriously tends to kill their fun tho
so can see why people who take PvE seriously and want to treat PvP the same would miss the simple enjoyment and comedy of interaction with other players

Sevn wrote: »

...
Lastly, how hard is it to understand that there are some gamers who just don't get any enjoyment out of being superior to their fellow gamer, they'd rather work with another human instead of against them, not that hard to understand.

Not hard to understand at all,
this gives rise to my preference to having fun running solo in Cyrodiil
as opposed to joining an end-game Trials guild and striving to be 'the best'
or trying to top Leaderboards for VMA or otherwise outperforming the majority of players by taking special challenge runs
or seeking to dominate the market as leader of a trade guild

The Killer archetype of deriving enjoyment from outperforming others is not limited to PvP
just game makers tend to put the most mechanics and systems to appeal to their archetype into PvP

The competitive pve playerbase is just as small as the PvP competitive playerbase. Vma has less than 2% completion on ps4, I'm fairly certain Xbox is similar,maybe slightly more as I do believe the Xbox fans are more dudebroish, no offense intended, and most pver's don't have a clue about end-game trial leaderboards, I know I don't lol.

Most just want to open a glass of wine or crack open a beer and kick back living out their medieval dream that they've had since a kid. I know that's why I play videogames.

You want to talk real world? I'm super competitive and always strive to be the best because that's where it matters, to me. My athletic trophy room is exceptional and my military career is beyond envious. There just isn't anything I can do in a virtual world that would give those same highs so why bother?

Samadhi

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

...
There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? ...

Sevn wrote: »

...
I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?
...

The fun is engaging with fellow Elder Scrolls fans in the type of interactions we discussed back when we were each the Nerevarine
or the Champion of Cyrodiil

Not sure what you're trying to say here. I don't recall finishing Morrowind or Oblivion and wanting to fight other players.

Not sure what you are trying to say here...
Does the fact that you did not somehow void the fact that there were those of us who did?
Or that there are those of us who simply find PvP in the Elder Scrolls universe to be fun as a result?

Even went so far as rolling up my Champion of Cyrodiil as a Pathfinder character for a friend's campaign
and have helped in running a post-Oblivion D&D campaign

Not trying to say my gaming experience is the best or should serve as a template for everyone else
simply pointed out to the person that thought something has to be 'gained' from the activity
or that PvP has to be taken seriously
that there are those of us who participate just for the fun of the interactions

but, personally, do not take PvE seriously either
and simply do not take part in serious end-game PvE as a result of it
but still respect that there are players who do enjoy it, even if it is not 'for me'

Anotherone773

jabrone77 wrote: »

I love both. Battlegrounds have been extremely fun and rewarding. Not just in crystals, but stuffing my guild bank full of gear for others to use.

Why do predominantly PvE players hate PvP?
As someone who comes from WoW, it's basically the same reason there, and pretty much in any MMO.
Even if you're one of the best at PvP, you die...alot.
PvE players don't like that...don't know how to deal with it. They are used to hard mode no death speed runs. It's a hard concept to deal with doing all the right things and still maybe getting caught out.
And I think some of it comes from gear. You slay trials in your op, bis gear and think that will cut it against other players. Surely having all my gold divines gear will destroy the other faction/team! When it doesn't work out, they get salty.
But most players in my guild admit it's the dying constantly that puts them off PvP. Can't come to terms with it. In thier mind, it's the worst possible thing. It still sucks in PvP, but it comes for everyone. But once you understand death and PvP goes hand in hand, a world of fun opens up, and drives you to get better at it.

I find that really weird. Ive always pvped in hardcore pvp games where dying actually means something. So you learn to "git gud", how to avoid pvp, or how to become a very efficient farmer to replace all your stuff you lose when you die. I find dying in a game like this to be very trivial. In fact ive suicided in cyro because i didnt want to run back to catch a port.


I personally dont have i fondness for the softcore pvp offered in games like this. No real losses when you die means you just try to bash everything to death and hope for the best. No strategy involved. Just CC and bash. Kind of takes the fun out of it when their is no real loss. Strategy is completely different when their is real loss. People learn to engage others strategically rather than dive in and hope for the best.

Kel

Sevn wrote: »

I do both, but I'd like to address a few misconceptions. Pver's are afraid to die? Maybe for a few, but most die all the time to npc's, you all are really feeling yourselves if you think they're afraid to die to some random nobodies.

This games PvP sucks. Why play an rpg for its pvp? Can't pick your preferred game mode in BG's, IC has no point which makes it suck and cyro is a lagfest whenever a large scale battle takes place, the very thing cyro was built for.

There are much better PvP oriented games out there, maybe you all should try some real PvP games instead of hiding in eso's version of it. Or are you playing eso's version because it's easier to win against potatoes than playing PvP oriented games?

You all speak of challenge yet never fight anyone good. Most good players completely ignore other good players to fight people they know they can beat, and you have the nerve to belittle pver's for fighting scripted npc's?

There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? About beating some random person? How did you win? Was it your gear? Was it their gear? You have no idea, but you'll pretend it was all skill so you can pat yourself on the back thinking, "I'm so awesome!".

I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?

Lastly, how hard is it to understand that there are some gamers who just don't get any enjoyment out of being superior to their fellow gamer, they'd rather work with another human instead of against them, not that hard to understand.

Cool...now do the misconceptions of the PvP side of things, since you do both.
Because it kinda sounds like you're only taking shots at one side...something your post is trying to denounce while doing the exact same thing.

Kel

Anotherone773 wrote: »

jabrone77 wrote: »

I love both. Battlegrounds have been extremely fun and rewarding. Not just in crystals, but stuffing my guild bank full of gear for others to use.

Why do predominantly PvE players hate PvP?
As someone who comes from WoW, it's basically the same reason there, and pretty much in any MMO.
Even if you're one of the best at PvP, you die...alot.
PvE players don't like that...don't know how to deal with it. They are used to hard mode no death speed runs. It's a hard concept to deal with doing all the right things and still maybe getting caught out.
And I think some of it comes from gear. You slay trials in your op, bis gear and think that will cut it against other players. Surely having all my gold divines gear will destroy the other faction/team! When it doesn't work out, they get salty.
But most players in my guild admit it's the dying constantly that puts them off PvP. Can't come to terms with it. In thier mind, it's the worst possible thing. It still sucks in PvP, but it comes for everyone. But once you understand death and PvP goes hand in hand, a world of fun opens up, and drives you to get better at it.

I find that really weird. Ive always pvped in hardcore pvp games where dying actually means something. So you learn to "git gud", how to avoid pvp, or how to become a very efficient farmer to replace all your stuff you lose when you die. I find dying in a game like this to be very trivial. In fact ive suicided in cyro because i didnt want to run back to catch a port.


I personally dont have i fondness for the softcore pvp offered in games like this. No real losses when you die means you just try to bash everything to death and hope for the best. No strategy involved. Just CC and bash. Kind of takes the fun out of it when their is no real loss. Strategy is completely different when their is real loss. People learn to engage others strategically rather than dive in and hope for the best.

Well, that's not something I'm saying I think, or that its my opinion. It's something I've been told. Fairly regularly too.
Of course, your mileage may vary, but I'm not calling BS on something I've been told.
/shrug

TarrNokk

I love pvp and I try to avoid pve as possible although I am a bad pvper. I do pvp since Ultima online and a game without it would be totally boring for me

Sevn

Samadhi wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

...
There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? ...

Sevn wrote: »

...
I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?
...

The fun is engaging with fellow Elder Scrolls fans in the type of interactions we discussed back when we were each the Nerevarine
or the Champion of Cyrodiil

Not sure what you're trying to say here. I don't recall finishing Morrowind or Oblivion and wanting to fight other players.

Not sure what you are trying to say here...
Does the fact that you did not somehow void the fact that there were those of us who did?
Or that there are those of us who simply find PvP in the Elder Scrolls universe to be fun as a result?

Even went so far as rolling up my Champion of Cyrodiil as a Pathfinder character for a friend's campaign
and have helped in running a post-Oblivion D&D campaign

Not trying to say my gaming experience is the best or should serve as a template for everyone else
simply pointed out to the person that thought something has to be 'gained' from the activity
or that PvP has to be taken seriously
that there are those of us who participate just for the fun of the interactions

but, personally, do not take PvE seriously either
and simply do not take part in serious end-game PvE as a result of it
but still respect that there are players who do enjoy it, even if it is not 'for me'

I never stated something had to be "gained" for anyone else but for myself and the question wasn't why do pvper's pvp, but why do pver's dislike pvp. Glad you find it fun, many don't find PvP interactions fun at all.

Samadhi

Sevn wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

...
There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? ...

Sevn wrote: »

...
I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?
...

The fun is engaging with fellow Elder Scrolls fans in the type of interactions we discussed back when we were each the Nerevarine
or the Champion of Cyrodiil

Taking games seriously tends to kill their fun tho
so can see why people who take PvE seriously and want to treat PvP the same would miss the simple enjoyment and comedy of interaction with other players

Sevn wrote: »

...
Lastly, how hard is it to understand that there are some gamers who just don't get any enjoyment out of being superior to their fellow gamer, they'd rather work with another human instead of against them, not that hard to understand.

Not hard to understand at all,
this gives rise to my preference to having fun running solo in Cyrodiil
as opposed to joining an end-game Trials guild and striving to be 'the best'
or trying to top Leaderboards for VMA or otherwise outperforming the majority of players by taking special challenge runs
or seeking to dominate the market as leader of a trade guild

The Killer archetype of deriving enjoyment from outperforming others is not limited to PvP
just game makers tend to put the most mechanics and systems to appeal to their archetype into PvP

The competitive pve playerbase is just as small as the PvP competitive playerbase. Vma has less than 2% completion on ps4, I'm fairly certain Xbox is similar,maybe slightly more as I do believe the Xbox fans are more dudebroish, no offense intended, and most pver's don't have a clue about end-game trial leaderboards, I know I don't lol.

Most just want to open a glass of wine or crack open a beer and kick back living out their medieval dream that they've had since a kid. I know that's why I play videogames.
...

Agreed on all of this
with the addition that part of my 'medieval' dream includes zapping enemy soldiers with magic from a castle tower

Skyrim had a pretty mediocre representation of this in defending Whiterun from the Stormcloaks, but they tried
ESO lets me my laugh and throw lightning on a more regular basis
if the enemy zerg eventually swarms me, no big deal, res somewhere else, rinse and repeat

Sevn wrote: »

...
You want to talk real world? I'm super competitive and always strive to be the best because that's where it matters, to me. My athletic trophy room is exceptional and my military career is beyond envious. There just isn't anything I can do in a virtual world that would give those same highs so why bother?

Sure, let us
Am not competitive in real life; like to think of the human endeavour as aspiring to make life better for all of us
My grandfather was an air force gunner in WW2, but was myself turned down from flight school due to my need for glasses
have a bit of envy for a friend of mine who was main-base cheerleader in high school -- she went on to join the Canadian Army
and works towards peace keeping and disaster response in her time

meanwhile, am on disability
so seek to engage my mind and spirit more frequently
unfortunately, had to do a medical withdraw in my last year of University
so my Religious Studies and East Asian Studies degrees never got printed to paper

photography is my 'high' in the real world
and find its best digital representation to be through screen archery in Skyrim and Fallout 4
where the TFC 1 command allows complete control over framing of all shots

ESO is more just dooting around in a social aspect with my TES story
also like to post in the Bethesda character threads on the Skyrim and Fallout 4 forums
but, again, am just in it for the fun, not to take the game seriously

gaming is an escape from a day-to-day hell of struggling with OCD, PTSD, and joint and muscle issues

Sevn

jabrone77 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

I do both, but I'd like to address a few misconceptions. Pver's are afraid to die? Maybe for a few, but most die all the time to npc's, you all are really feeling yourselves if you think they're afraid to die to some random nobodies.

This games PvP sucks. Why play an rpg for its pvp? Can't pick your preferred game mode in BG's, IC has no point which makes it suck and cyro is a lagfest whenever a large scale battle takes place, the very thing cyro was built for.

There are much better PvP oriented games out there, maybe you all should try some real PvP games instead of hiding in eso's version of it. Or are you playing eso's version because it's easier to win against potatoes than playing PvP oriented games?

You all speak of challenge yet never fight anyone good. Most good players completely ignore other good players to fight people they know they can beat, and you have the nerve to belittle pver's for fighting scripted npc's?

There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? About beating some random person? How did you win? Was it your gear? Was it their gear? You have no idea, but you'll pretend it was all skill so you can pat yourself on the back thinking, "I'm so awesome!".

I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?

Lastly, how hard is it to understand that there are some gamers who just don't get any enjoyment out of being superior to their fellow gamer, they'd rather work with another human instead of against them, not that hard to understand.

Cool...now do the misconceptions of the PvP side of things, since you do both.
Because it kinda sounds like you're only taking shots at one side...something your post is trying to denounce while doing the exact same thing.

Start a thread that asks why pvper's dislike pve content in an rpg and I'll gladly oblige.

Gargath

Because of
- the veterans so easily exloiting newbies.
- animation cancelling.
- the people who always win.
- no instant profit in gold.
- frustation and rage and my lack of understanding for the pvp mechanics.
- empty areas and boring terrain.
- people who either want to kill you or just ignore you all the time.
- lfg with no effect.
- the feeling like you are there just to unlock Vigor and Caltrops.

Riddari

I honestly don't really believe PvP requires mechanical skill. Obviously it requires some, especially compared to PvE, but it's a tiny amount.

When you think of mechanical skill you think of some fps or fighting game. Something that requires aim, muscle memory, and twitch reflexes. Maybe that's just a personal definition, but that's how I see it.

When I get killed by someone in PvP, I don't feel like they were better than me. Hell, I don't even feel like it was a fair fight. I feel like they exploited stats and gear in order to make 2 or 3 button presses fatal.

It's just not the same feeling as getting outplayed in other games. Like if I get outplayed in overwatch, battlefield, or some game like that, 9 times our of 10 I don't feel like it was cheap. Being killed by other players in this game feels cheap to me. There are few fights I walk away saying "that felt fair" win or lose.

Muttsmutt

cause it's less fun

Sevn

Samadhi wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

...
There is nothing to be gained fighting another human opponent in eso. Nothing. Bragging rights? ...

Sevn wrote: »

...
I think most folks who only enjoy pve content in eso have better things to do with their time than take eso's PvP seriously because they don't see the point of it, and if they're not going to take it seriously, why bother?
...

The fun is engaging with fellow Elder Scrolls fans in the type of interactions we discussed back when we were each the Nerevarine
or the Champion of Cyrodiil

Taking games seriously tends to kill their fun tho
so can see why people who take PvE seriously and want to treat PvP the same would miss the simple enjoyment and comedy of interaction with other players

Sevn wrote: »

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Lastly, how hard is it to understand that there are some gamers who just don't get any enjoyment out of being superior to their fellow gamer, they'd rather work with another human instead of against them, not that hard to understand.

Not hard to understand at all,
this gives rise to my preference to having fun running solo in Cyrodiil
as opposed to joining an end-game Trials guild and striving to be 'the best'
or trying to top Leaderboards for VMA or otherwise outperforming the majority of players by taking special challenge runs
or seeking to dominate the market as leader of a trade guild

The Killer archetype of deriving enjoyment from outperforming others is not limited to PvP
just game makers tend to put the most mechanics and systems to appeal to their archetype into PvP

The competitive pve playerbase is just as small as the PvP competitive playerbase. Vma has less than 2% completion on ps4, I'm fairly certain Xbox is similar,maybe slightly more as I do believe the Xbox fans are more dudebroish, no offense intended, and most pver's don't have a clue about end-game trial leaderboards, I know I don't lol.

Most just want to open a glass of wine or crack open a beer and kick back living out their medieval dream that they've had since a kid. I know that's why I play videogames.
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Agreed on all of this
with the addition that part of my 'medieval' dream includes zapping enemy soldiers with magic from a castle tower

Skyrim had a pretty mediocre representation of this in defending Whiterun from the Stormcloaks, but they tried
ESO lets me my laugh and throw lightning on a more regular basis
if the enemy zerg eventually swarms me, no big deal, res somewhere else, rinse and repeat

Sevn wrote: »

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You want to talk real world? I'm super competitive and always strive to be the best because that's where it matters, to me. My athletic trophy room is exceptional and my military career is beyond envious. There just isn't anything I can do in a virtual world that would give those same highs so why bother?

Sure, let us
Am not competitive in real life; like to think of the human endeavour as aspiring to make life better for all of us
My grandfather was an air force gunner in WW2, but was myself turned down from flight school due to my need for glasses
have a bit of envy for a friend of mine who was main-base cheerleader in high school -- she went on to join the Canadian Army
and works towards peace keeping and disaster response in her time

meanwhile, am on disability
so seek to engage my mind and spirit more frequently
unfortunately, had to do a medical withdraw in my last year of University
so my Religious Studies and East Asian Studies degrees never got printed to paper

photography is my 'high' in the real world
and find its best digital representation to be through screen archery in Skyrim and Fallout 4
where the TFC 1 command allows complete control over framing of all shots

ESO is more just dooting around in a social aspect with my TES story
also like to post in the Bethesda character threads on the Skyrim and Fallout 4 forums
but, again, am just in it for the fun, not to take the game seriously

gaming is an escape from a day-to-day hell of struggling with OCD, PTSD, and joint and muscle issues

If I listed the many many issues I'm dealing with from my time I'd spin your head, but those very reasons are why I rely on videogames to help me "release". Last thing I need is to stress out over something that has no real impact on my life.

That being said, I LOVE pvping, stacking up on crown, following orders and using good tactics to overcome a larger force. But I don't take it seriously though. Lose a battle and come running to the forums asking for that big bad class that beat me up to get nerfed. I don't lose my mind when I get disconnected and come running to the forums asking that the entire ZOS team be fired because it's been forever and they still haven't fixed the lag, etc.

These are common occurrences from, you guessed it sole pvper's. If something isn't working right and you continue to utilise it that's on you. I've left many a game for greener pastures and will do the same to eso if it ever gets to the point of calling for someones job, but to still complain day in day out, banging on changes that happened eons ago is just futile and ultimately a waste of time. Yours. (Not you personally lol)

From my experience, most pvper's in eso who take it seriously aren't having fun unless they are winning. That's, disturbing for me, but to each their own.